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Aznate
10-13-2004, 21:05
Sorry to differ guys,, it's not about bombs bursting at night, how about "America the Beatiful" it's a great song that really talks about our great land. If this ****s on your patriotic ideas sorry!!
just the opinion of one old Viet Vet who thinks he fought for the idea of self expression.

Cagey
10-14-2004, 13:09
Oh, I don't know about that. Our National anthem was inspired when our sovereign soil at Fort McHenry was invaded and Francis Scott
Key, a prisoner of the British army, realized that after much bombardment our flag was still flying. I especially like that thought in light of the attacks on our country during these difficult times.

If you're ever in the Baltimore area, stop in and visit Fort McHenry. I think you'd enjoy it and possibly get a different feeling for our anthem.

Aznate
10-14-2004, 14:06
Yes, I've been there. And it is inspiriing, as is all the Battleground Monuments. This nation was born of battle but why can't we have an athem that reflects the beauty of our land instead of the wars we fought to preserve it. I see by your Combat patch you've seen some of what I'm talking about. I was with the 173rd Airborne Brigade and saw all the war I wanted to see and more. Any song that speaks of the glory of war tends to upset me,,sorry,, just my opinion.
p.s. I screwed up and created a new thread instead of replying to the original,,shows you how sharp I am!!

pwharve
10-14-2004, 17:17
Aznate,

Thanks for your service. Opinions are opinions, and I won't dog yours, but I don't think there is anything glorifying war in the Anthem. FSK didn't write that the bombs or rocket were good--he just wrote that despite them, our flag survived and flew over the land of the free and the home of the brave. I think free and brave universally good things, right? Neither is necessarily a trait of war.

To me, the fact that our country is visually appealing is pretty meaningless. Indeed, I think that's sort of a Euro-flavored idea (I loath homeland security BTW, it should have been HEARTland security). The fact that our Constitution has been the pattern for many a newborn free nation since the founding dads hammered it out, that means something to me.

It means something to me that every four years or so when I raise my hand--like you did--I pledge to defend the Constitution--not some land or some king or queen. After hearing in a leadership school that we're the only country whose oath of enlistment DOESN'T include defending a land or a king or a population, I did some research to see if it was true. As far as I've been able to research, this is true. *That* means something to me.

To me, the USA is a collection of a ideas that are beautiful--even if, today, we do stray too far away from what the founding dads had in mind.

Anyone can take away our country's land if they have the means, but no one can take away our country's ideals--the only thing the USA can claim makes us a *nation*--so long as we're willing to stand for them.

To me, the Anthem speaks of a country whose ideas have been assaulted from within and without and despite it all, the country, the ideas survive.


Thanks again for your service.

--pwharve
And BTW, yep, I still get a lump when I hear it. But, you want to talk about teary eyed, that would be retreat flag detail or watching my mother accept my grandfather's flag at his funeral.

Aznate
10-14-2004, 17:35
dito on the emtions, o.k. let's keep the anthem we got.. just wanted to throw out some differnent ideas and opinions. Unfortunately I get a bit cynical sometime, comes from serving in a stupid war with no honorable ending. Thanks for your feed back.

Cagey
10-15-2004, 06:06
No Aznate, you didn't serve in a stupid war with no honorable ending. That's just the picture people like John Kerry wanted to paint during the 70's. I lost two friends during Vietnam and I truly believe they died for a cause. The cause to keep southern Vietnam free was originaly honorable but corrupted by politicians, not the soldiers who fought there.

Maybe it's finally time there is an honorable end to that war and I for one honor your service. You served with honor.

By the way, the patch I show here isn't a combat Infantry unit patch although America's first casualty was in the Army Security agency who often served in the field. I served stateside during Vietnam in the ASA.

CarlosDJackal
10-15-2004, 13:43
Sometimes the outcome of an honorable endeavor may not be to our liking. Much like my Father's efforts in the Battle of Bataan did not yield a victory, its role in delaying the timetable of the Japanese War machine during the early part of WWII cannot be ignored.

However unpopular the Vietnam War may have been, there were some very honorable reasons for it. My cousin-in-law is from South Vietnam and had no idea her parents survived the final push into it by the Communist North until they managed to escape as Boat People in the late 70s.

You can take solace in the fact that you fought for her and her family. They did not want anything to do with Communism; they only wanted to live peacefully. The loss of South Vietnam and the deaths of thousands of brave souls who fought to keep her free from teh North may have been a final outcome. But I can say that my cousin's wife (my cousin met her when he was covering the war as a photographer for a Philippine newspaper) and her family are forever gratefull for the sacrifices given by you and your comrades.

FWIW, my Uncle also served in Vietnam as part of a contingent from the Philippine Army. I trained and served with a lot of Vietnam Veterans who passed on the lessons they learned under fire to quite a few generations of Soldiers, some of whom are using these very lessons in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Airborne all the Way and then Some!! ;?