Ayn Rand - Atlas Shrugged [Archive] - Glock Talk

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AtlantisArms
10-16-2004, 18:37
She writes with a passion and talent that is rare. She has only a coule fiction works. I've been reading some of ther non-ficiton, like "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal." One of her great co-writters is none other than Alan Greenspan (Chairman of the US Federal Reserve).
Anyone have other works of/like her's that are worthwhile?

Flexmoney
10-17-2004, 22:13
The Fountain Head is a must read also.

Alexii
10-19-2004, 06:21
Actually, the Fountainhead should be read first then the Atlas Shrugged. It's not a sequel, but Atlas is Fountainhead in a larger scale. Excellent books.

After those, you can try We The Living (her first novel) and Anthem.

Flexmoney
10-19-2004, 07:25
I agree...that is the order I read them.

Alchemy
10-19-2004, 07:52
Thanks for the reminder. I read her works about 25 years
ago, and I'm still impressed with her genius. It's about
time to read them again.

Wulfenite
10-19-2004, 09:17
Ditto, time for Atlas again.

G33
10-19-2004, 11:28
Indeed, her works do not seem to age, so to say.

muscles
10-19-2004, 13:27
for a quick fun read, you might also try "anthem". ive enjoyed all of her books. especially atlas shrugged.

DonCT
11-04-2004, 05:50
But she is a terrible writer. I would describe her much like I would describe Dan Brown...interesting thoughts poorly written. Wooden, one-dimsensional characters. Simple, linear plots.

Also, has anyone noticed that her heroes are RAPISTS! And I'm not talking bogus "the girl drank too much and regretted it in the morning" date-rapists either. Her heroes are "whack 'em upside the head with a brick, shove a rag down their throat, hold them down and violate them then lure them to your construction site so you can blow them up' rapists. Don't believe me? Re-read The Fountainhead.

I love you Ayn, but sister, you've got issues

RiverVan
11-04-2004, 08:39
I thought the fountain head was much better than Atlas Shrugged and was written at a higher level, for a smaller audience. Just my opinion. The Virtue of Selfishness is also excellent.

Sinister Angel
11-11-2004, 19:52
Originally posted by DonCT
But she is a terrible writer. I would describe her much like I would describe Dan Brown...interesting thoughts poorly written. Wooden, one-dimsensional characters. Simple, linear plots.

Also, has anyone noticed that her heroes are RAPISTS! And I'm not talking bogus "the girl drank too much and regretted it in the morning" date-rapists either. Her heroes are "whack 'em upside the head with a brick, shove a rag down their throat, hold them down and violate them then lure them to your construction site so you can blow them up' rapists. Don't believe me? Re-read The Fountainhead.

I love you Ayn, but sister, you've got issues

Haven't really read her books, but to me, that seems odd. Given the fact that her philosophy is objectivism and individual rights, I would find it odd that heros in her books would commit acts of violating such rights..

RiverVan
11-11-2004, 20:24
Actually rape fantasies are one of the most popular with woman. It’s only a fantasy, not reality. And Howard Roark did not shove a rag down her throat, or tie her up. And if you read closely she wanted it. You must ACTUALLY READ the book!
Although I can see where someone would have a problem with her writing from that point of view. Its funny, no one minded her writing other than it was to risqué or passionate, back in the day.

DonCT
11-12-2004, 13:42
Originally posted by RiverVan
And Howard Roark did not shove a rag down her throat, or tie her up.

I didn't say tie her up, I said held her down, which he did. And I'll concede the rag-down-the-throat comment. I mean, if you have no problem with the head-smacking, hand-over-mouth scream stifling, forcibly taking and, later, dynamiting, then I must say I am surprised that gagging offends you. ;P

And I know she wanted it. Hence my thought that the author has some serious issues.

All I can say is I want you and 11 other Fountainhead fans on my jury. Rape or arson, doesn't matter. Roark did them both and apparently you have no problem with either. She was asking for it. ;Q

On a sort of related topic, some of the early albums by the rock band Rush have some pretty direct Objectivist references. My favorite is "Red Barchetta." Lots of bands have songs about driving fast cars, but only Rush would make a 6-minute tribute to a lone individual defying Big Brother-type government in his convertible. The entire "2112" album is also essentially an Objectivist manifesto.

RiverVan
11-14-2004, 20:04
Your statements taken by themselves may make sense. But you really need to read the moral principals presented by Rand. Roark had created perfection in housing for the little guy, decent, yet affordable housing. Others were destroying both his dream as well as the reality of housing for the poor. Frankly I think you are missing the point to Rand. A totally free market that allowed for anyone to price gouge the poor to death and what was the result? Cheaper, clean, efficient and affordable housing bought and paid for by (in the fictional case) Howard Roark. Roark did not so much care about the poor, he wanted to challenge himself to do more, be better. And he did so by creating new architectural designs that benefited the poor.
You might want to read Thomas Sowell’s book “BASIC ECONOMICS a Citizens Guide to the Economy” It explains the same free market principals from a scientific instead of a philosophical/fictional point of view.

mac66
11-29-2004, 14:02
I enjoyed Atlas Shrugged. However, 'tis a bit long winded. Rand (alright already, we get the friggin point!) could have cut a couple hundred pages without the long, long, long winded diatribes by her characters. I think John Galt's was 100 pages in itself.

DAL
12-08-2004, 10:17
I adore her non-fiction, but her fiction leaves me cold--always has. "Captialism: The Unknown Ideal" was the first book of her's I ever read, and it's still my favorite, although "The Virtue of Selfishness" is damn good too. Her philosophy has become my philosophy, at least as much of it as I can comprehend. She had a way of getting to the root of an issue like no one else I have ever read or heard.

In a nutshell, Objectivism embraces unvarnished reality as ascertained by our five senses and interpreted and integrated into concepts by a conceptual, as opposed to a perceptual, mind. (Animals have perceptual minds.) In other words, see things as they are, throw the wishful thinking out, and organize your observations into a non-contradictory idea or answer. Well, that's my take anyway.
DAL

Sinister Angel
12-13-2004, 06:27
Originally posted by DAL
I adore her non-fiction, but her fiction leaves me cold--always has. "Captialism: The Unknown Ideal" was the first book of her's I ever read, and it's still my favorite, although "The Virtue of Selfishness" is damn good too. Her philosophy has become my philosophy, at least as much of it as I can comprehend. She had a way of getting to the root of an issue like no one else I have ever read or heard.

In a nutshell, Objectivism embraces unvarnished reality as ascertained by our five senses and interpreted and integrated into concepts by a conceptual, as opposed to a perceptual, mind. (Animals have perceptual minds.) In other words, see things as they are, throw the wishful thinking out, and organize your observations into a non-contradictory idea or answer. Well, that's my take anyway.
DAL
I couldn't be able to describe it any better. I love it when people toss out the word 'extreme' when being debated using objectivism.

Wayne D
01-22-2005, 12:56
Originally posted by mac66
I enjoyed Atlas Shrugged. However, 'tis a bit long winded. Rand (alright already, we get the friggin point!) could have cut a couple hundred pages without the long, long, long winded diatribes by her characters. I think John Galt's was 100 pages in itself.

Agreed, that was my only complaint with the book.

grubinski
01-22-2005, 13:49
I read it (Atlas Shrugged) in high school or shortly thereafter. That was a long time ago, but what I remember was that I got the impression she hated men. It seemed that the women were a lot stronger characters than the men, at least as far as being in touch with what they wanted.

At the time I read it, I had a little more faith in pure free market capitalism than I do these days.

Mike

Squaw Man Wolfer
01-27-2005, 19:39
DonCT

actually, i don't agree that she was "asking for it".

As I read it, she was "BEGGING FOR IT!!!!"


But I don't see it as a rape fantasy, per se.

She is yearning for a man who is worthy of her submission,

and not finding him among the

"Married with Children" twisted little hitlers.

RiverVan
01-28-2005, 15:51
I agree with you. I did not mean to imply her writing was a "Rape Fantasy" but that she was writing for a readership, (in part, there is much, much more to Ayn Rand) which may have had rape fantasies. I do like Rand's writing for he objectivist viewpoint.

Squaw Man Wolfer
01-28-2005, 17:14
I agree that she belabors her points WAY TOO many times.

(Hey, I got it the first time.)

What got me off the book the first time was that,

SUDDENLY,

we got a friggin' PIRATE!

"Avast ye mateys, ir ?"

I actually have never finished the book, though am back to it to accomodate a friend.

I have a pretty good idea what kinda dude John Galt is, and his agenda.

I'm outa here, will check back when I finish it.

In Ann's defense, the threat of the type of socialism she is fighting against, was FAAR MORE likely in her day than at our present point on the cycle of weirdness.

RiverVan
01-28-2005, 18:38
I know what you mean. I put the book down for several weeks before I made it all the way through John Galt's Speech.............
Man did that go on forever. Have you read "The Fountainhead"? I thought her writing was so much better in that book, I think she toned down her concepts and tried to reach a broader readership in "Atlas Shrugged". IMHO Fountain is a far better book and a little shorter. I have "Anthem" and "the Virtue of Selfishness" and "We the Living" but have not read any of them yet. Anthem will probably follow what I'm reading now. Any opinions?

Wayne D
02-10-2005, 10:49
Originally posted by RiverVan
I know what you mean. I put the book down for several weeks before I made it all the way through John Galt's Speech.............
Man did that go on forever.

I just skipped it. ;f

Jack23
02-13-2005, 14:09
I read all her stuff when I was in my late teens and early 20s...and enjoyed it. (lemme see now, that'd be about 40 years back.) I'm glad I read all that while I was so young. I wouldn't be able to slog my way through all the preachin', now that I have some miles on me and have oppinions of my own. She seemed to be so intent on delivering her sermon that she occasionally got a little weak in the story department.

I did love the flick with Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal.

Rollo Tamasey
03-13-2005, 20:50
I saw her book Atlas Shruged in the local library and the librarian who liked her said she was a liberal writter. But listening to this thread makes it sound like she is more libertarian.

I have never read any of her books. At the time I did not want to read Atlas Shruged because it is about 1000 pages and I just had finished reading the Kent Chronicals by John Jakes which was about 8 books some of them about 800 pages. I think I will go back and get the Atlas book now though.

The kent chronicals for the most part had very realistic 3 dementional characters and started just before the American revolution and ended in 1890. Then he made a two series book called Homeland. Its sequal is American Dreamers and it ends just before World War one. I think his history of America would be grate for high school students to get them interested in our heratage. The Sex and Violence in the books might offend some parents. I also thought he could have mentioned the states rights issues of the Civil war more and the issues involving the North using Terrifs that were really hurting the economy of the South before they succeded.

DAL
03-22-2005, 22:32
She most definitely would not classify herself as Libertarian. She would, and did, call herself an Objectivist, which means one who gets to the heart of a matter and comes up with a non-contradictory answer using rational self-interest.

BTW, if you have never read any of her fiction before, you may or may not find it dry. As much as I love her non-fiction, her fiction, with the exception of Anthem, mostly bored me. If you can only ever read one of her books, I would recommend Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. It's an excellent introduction to her wonderful, real-world philosophy. It is a collection of essays by Rand and others.
DAL

Rollo Tamasey
03-25-2005, 20:19
An objectivist that sounds interesting. I should read one of her books.

TKM
04-01-2005, 00:14
Finally had enough downtime (involuntary) to take a shot at Atlas Shrugged. Not exactly a page turner, took 20 Vicodin to get through it all.

It's partially explained by her being Russian by birth, I'm just glad she kept the cast of characters under a thousand.

I'm also purty sure she got paid by the word.;Q

StarJack
04-08-2005, 21:18
There's a DVD called A Sense of Life that tells her life story and has clips of interviews with her. A couple with Donahue are funny, you just know he's about to wet himself. Reading Atlas Shrugged opened my eyes a little wider to the breadth of the stupidity and evil of liberalism. 'Twas a bit wordy at times tho.