Good all around flashlight?

[Zenitram]

Hi, I want to pick up a Surefire personal flashlight because I've heard nothing but good things about them. In the future (for home defense) I will be using it in the Rogers/Surefire technique, but as of now it will just be a utility flashlight on my belt.

What is a good middle of the road Surefire that will be able to function effectively as a utility and as a shooting aid? The G2 looks good (and cheap), but I didn't see a belt clip on it.

Any suggestions? Thanks

BTW, by "middle of the road" I mean best value for around $75.

[pjb829]

For a good all around flashlight, I really like my E1E. No, it is not a tactical light that can blind an attacker, but it most definitely serves the purpose for target identification. It is small and has been riding in my front pocket for about two years. The E1E also offers the advantage of being able to use it to see things that are real close without being blinded by the reflected light.


Pete.

[Demi @ CSPT]

Here is a good reference page:

http://www.demibarbito.com/whitelight.html

My pic would be the E2E or the E2D

Demi

[degoodman]

The E2E wins for me. Very durable, good brightness, reasonably sized spot free beam, decent battery life. Had one for a couple years, and other than feeding it fresh batteries when needed, havent had to do a thing to it.

[brownie]

I carried the G-2 for awhile, good light for the money, but too bulky for my tastes on a daily basis on the belt.

Since then, I've carried the E2E for a few years now with complete satisfaction in it's durability and brightness.

As degoodman and Demi @ CSPT mention, it serves well.

Robin

[pangris]

if you will spend $75, E2E. G2 does fine as well. If you can drop $130, the L2 is, IMHO, without peer - 15 lumens or 100 lumens, your choice. I also like the A2, $135, 3 lumens or 50 lumens.

I prefer LEDs by a mile. I own a L2, A2 and X200 - all top notch wonderful lights.

Paul

[Zenitram]

OK, i'm leaning toward the E2D or E2E. I've never used an impact weapon, but I'd be willing to learn (not a high priority though). Which of the two would be better for the Rogers/Surefire technique? It doesn't look like either one of them are made specifically for it, but, as stated earlier I'd be using it for emergency and utility purposes also.

About the LEDs, are they better or is it just personal preference? I've seen a few and they definitely blinded me, but I've never had hands-on experience with any Surefire, LED or lithium.

Thanks everyone, for your very helpful posts.

EDIT: I forgot to ask, where are the cheapest online stores to buy these? I've only looked at the Surefire website.

[MrMurphy]

I carry an E2E myself, but the G2Z is also nice for the $$.

I would recommend the neck index technique. It really works.

[VWTim]

Not a Surefire, but I carry a Streamlight TL-2 daily. Nice belt/pocket clip and the base is small enough to go IWB at 3 o'clock, with my pistol at 3:30. Size wise inbetween the E2D's and the 6P's. I also like that it comes with a spare bulb. E-bay stores for ~$45.

[Blah!]

I would step up to the M2 if its for defense, extremly bright with the high output lamp assembly and shock isolated too.

[Roddy]

I have a question about flashlight use in general. Does anyone use a very dim light that would allow you to identify a person across a room, but only just? The idea being that it won't give your position away as easily, whereas a much brighter flashlight may shine through door cracks and alert people in the next room.

I know of a tactical team that issued a light such as this. It was pen shaped and was on an elastic neck cord that could be broken off relatively easliy if grabbed. They had Surefires on their weapons too, but they also had these lights. They even had red filters for use in the bush. Just seemed very useful to me.

[MrMurphy]

Sounds like the Streamlight Stylus... basically a souped up LED keychain light.

[VWTim]

Originally posted by MrMurphy
Sounds like the Streamlight Stylus... basically a souped up LED keychain light.

For it's size, it's an excellent light. I use one at the auto shop I work at to see down into hoods. I've even used it to find my way thru the woods to a place I could pee. Not much light, but just enough.

[degoodman]

Originally posted by Roddy
I have a question about flashlight use in general. Does anyone use a very dim light that would allow you to identify a person across a room, but only just? The idea being that it won't give your position away as easily, whereas a much brighter flashlight may shine through door cracks and alert people in the next room.

I know of a tactical team that issued a light such as this. It was pen shaped and was on an elastic neck cord that could be broken off relatively easliy if grabbed. They had Surefires on their weapons too, but they also had these lights. They even had red filters for use in the bush. Just seemed very useful to me.

If you activate any light with sufficient brightness to identify a target, it will be bright enough to alert an observant individual of yuor presence and specific location if you are within their field of vision.

Try this at home. Have your wife place three identically sized picutres of you, the wife, and a child or parent or someone else somewhere around the room where a person might stand or hide. Turn out all the lights, and close the curtains and blinds. Strike a match or lighter and try to identify the people in the photos. Takes a while if you can do it at all. Try the same thing with a pen-light, key chain light, or baby flashlight, like a mini-maglight with AA's that are nearly dead.

To continue the experiment, have the wife stand in a blacked out room with the various light sources, and close the door. Have her light the various light sources at random times, and tell her when you see them through the cracks in the door, etc.

Remember a BG that's in hiding is focused on seeing you before you see him. You won't have him standing up on a room, you'll have a miniscule portion of him, an arm, the toe of a shoe sticking out or other minimal cues to identify him. To see something that small you need a bright light.

Every tactical trainer I have ever taken classes from advocates NOT SEARCHING FOR A BG BY YOURSELF for this very reason. It is not possible to search for someone who has taken a position of concealment without giving away your position. You are at a tactical disadvantage every time you have to enter the "fatal funnels" like doorways, hallways, etc. It is nearly impossible to clear areas where concealment or cover are present without exposing yourself as you clear them.

Police clear houses in large groups, and in force on force training they get hurt or killed often by the simulated BG's. Any cop will tell you that clearing a house is one of the biggest "pucker moments" of the things they do because of the advantages the person hiding has over them.

If you HAVE to clear, to secure the safety of a family member or something like that, move deliberately but swiftly, use the light intermittently, and only for as long as necessary to clear an area. Vary the position of your light so you don't present the same target every time. Move every time you use your light. Avoid getting backlit, especially in the "fatal funnels." Move quickly through the fatal funnels. Once you have secured the safety of you family members, get back to cover and stay there until the police arrive. And when searching, remember that BG's can easily move into areas that you thought you cleared, especially when you are moving slowly and clearing by yourself, so never enter or reenter a room without assuming that a BG is in there and moving and clearing appropriately.

To be explicit about it: DON'T TRY AND CLEAR YOUR OWN HOUSE UNLESS YOU REALLY REALLY HAVE TO! Even in your own house you are at a complete tactical disadvantage, and a determined BG that has a good hiding spot will with the fight 9/10 times. He WILL see you before you see him, He will have cover or concealment and you will not. He will hit you when you are in a fatal funnel and there is nothing you can do about it. Forget the keyboard commando stuff and realize that your best bet is holeing up behind solid cover and waiting for the cops. doing anything else is asking to get killed.

[cognitivefun]

I purchased a Streamlight Strion which I love. It has a lithium battery and is rechargable at least 300 times. So that eliminates need for buying those expensive special batteries. It is very bright and fits in the pocket easily.

[MrMurphy]

Degoodman gives good advice. The other is KEEP THE FREAKING LIGHT ON YOU!

I had a Surefire which I stupidly left in my truck. Had to clear a house with a young lady and her son in it. It was two large rooms and a hallway, in the dark, with a 649-2 and no light. I think I sweated off five pounds and nearly crapped myself. I stayed very low (nearly kneeling), looking up to see anything in the dim light. I knew the house well which helped, but there were still a lot of place someone could have been. Turned out to be a false alarm (which I had suspected was the case), heater made the floor creak just like someone walking across them. I listened a great deal before I moved, and moved very slowly from cover to cover.


Still not something I ever want to do again without several others, lights and bigger guns. If ever.

[powernoodle]

A second vote here for the Streamlight Strion. Same size as the Surefire G2, 6P, etc., advertised at 12000 cp/80 lumen, and best of all - rechargeable.

best regards

[Tristan]

What does everyone think of the new Ultra-Small Streamlight
Jr. Luxeon-LED Flashlight? Solely as a search and target id light. Just saw it on their website.


http://streamlight-flashlights.com/junior-led.html

[Ken J. Good]

You may want to consider this option (an opinion) ;Q

Here is the pre-production proto.

BlackHawk Products Group + Strategos = Night-Ops Illumination Tools

http://strategosforum.com/images/Gladius_on_Bag.jpg

Introducing the “Gladius” (The marketing language)

From the beginning of time, cultures have etched their permanent place in history by the armaments they forged to conquer and protect themselves from their ever-present enemies.

These tools were carried by warriors who often endured unspeakable hardships and agony, most of this sacrifice unnoticed by the vast majority of the society they were sworn to protect.

Inevitability warriors and conflict have always had a tremendous influence on the evolving design of these tools, as victory and mission success depends on the effectiveness, durability, and portability of their equipment; and this equipment that must endure the rigors of battle.

In the spirit of these warriors and their contributions, Blackhawk introduces its latest set of proprietary tools, Night-Ops illumination equipment. The mission of Night-Ops will be to design, and manufacture the world’s finest illumination tools. Night-Ops illumination tools will be designed to be the most durable, dependable and technologically advanced in the world. In short Night Ops illumination tools will be manufactured to meet the demanding requirements of those warriors that go into harms way by choice.

The Night-Ops team has dedicated itself to listening to those who serve as guardians of society as a whole. We value their experience, knowledge and practical wisdom.

History tells us over and over again that a single tool can radically change the landscape of the battlefield. Perspective, strategy, and tactics, call all be significantly affected with the introduction and understanding of a crucial piece of equipment.

Night-Ops first illumination tool is the “Gladius”. It is the first in a long series of projected releases.

This “Gladius” is a high-powered, compact illumination product that is named after one of the most famous battle implements in history. Many accounts indicate that original Gladius was developed after the Romans encountered a Spanish sword of the highest iron quality that was designed to puncture the enemy. It caused such terror and anguish among the Roman legionnaires that the Roman Senate decided to adopt a similar weapon, replacing the Greek sword of hoplite. Of this Spanish sword design is has been said that no other weapon has killed more men throughout History until the invention of the firearm. That being said, there was room for notable improvement of design and the Romans exploited this. We take note of these lessons learned.

The Roman solider himself was one of the toughest and most acclaimed on the planet, carrying over 90 lbs of equipment often 20 miles a day only to face prolonged battle under the harshest conditions.

Like the Roman sword before us, the Night-Ops “Gladius” is specifically designed to be a critical, practical and powerful mainstay for our frontline troops in Law Enforcement and Military Operations involved in Close Quarter Confrontations.

The Night-Ops “Gladius” will provide our modern warriors with a readily available illumination option to tip the scale of conflict in their favor.



Gladius Description
The Gladius is a 6-volt, lithium battery powered, high-output LED driven illumination tool designed primarily for handheld use, but robust enough for weapon mounted applications.

The Gladius is designed from the ground up to be immersed into the realities of close quarter conflict.

The light is factory pre-focused for optimal use in close quarter situations. Protecting the optic is an O-ring suspended UCL glass lens that maintains a 99% light throughput, the highest in the industry.

The body design allows for a variety of handgun flashlight technical applications. It features an excellent center of gravity and the end-user will appreciate the well-placed anti-roll/retention flares. This light will not slip in your hand during stressful situations; it just feels right.

At the heart of this fighting tool is a robust electronics package that can only be described as REVOLUTIONARY. This electronics package of the “Gladius” is the most technologically advanced EVER developed for a handheld illumination tool.

It starts with a factory programmed, intelligent power management system that allows Night-Ops to take the current technology to the edge. This intelligent power management system allows the LED to be driven at a very high level while maintaining a very high degree of reliability, usability and efficiency as heat and current are digitally regulated.

This tool has an overall automatic temperature control to ensure transport safety. If the light is inadvertently activated in a confined storage container and reaches unsafe levels of heat, the light will be auto-dimmed or completely shutdown.

The intelligent power management system will communicate with the power source giving the operator low battery indications by a presenting a unique flashing pattern every 10 seconds when the system is activated. The system has also been pre-programmed to drop the light output to a lower, but useful level as the power source is exhausted until such time it can be replaced.


Initial Specifications: (Subject to Change)

The “Gladius” features a unique multi-function tailcap design that sets the new standard for function and usability.

1. Standard Momentary Activation Mode (Full Clockwise Rotation)
Push on, Release off. This is vital in a tactical environment as often it is as important to get the light extinguished, as it is to energize it on demand.

2. “RapidFire” Strobe Mode or “Wave Length Technology” (Middle Setting)
This is deployed when the operator wishes to close the gap or disorient threats. This is a powerful modality! As long as the button is depressed, the light will cycle in a pre-programmed rapid strobe pattern. Additionally, the user can also have the light in the Constant On status, and then discretely set the rotating cap on Strobe and the next time the activation button is cycled it will begin “RapidFire” auto-strobing. While operating in in “RapidFire” mode the power sent to the LED is increased significantly for maximum impact.

3. Constant On Mode (Full Counter-Clockwise Rotation)
In this mode, the user depresses the switch and the light stays on at maximum power output. This feature is very useful for those users that are utilizing the light Press Again, the light goes OFF.

4. Dimming Mode (Also achieved from the Full Counter-Clockwise Rotation)
If the user maintains pressure while in the Constant ON Mode, the light begins an auto-dim sequence after 3 seconds. When the desired light level is achieved, the user simply lifts the finger and the light stays at that level. This light has a 100:1 dimming ratio 4 watts to 0.04 watts). (Probably going to ½ this again to .02 watts or less) This feature gives the light a wide range of versatility to meet operational requirements. If the operator needs just enough light to navigate in difficult terrain, to signal, or complete some administrative functions, the light can be adjusted accordingly. HOLD the switch again, and the light slowly begins to intensify again back to full power. Tap the switch during the ramp up or down the light is deactivated and recycles to the default, full-power settings awaiting reactivation.

5. System OFF (Achieved by Full-Clockwise Rotation, half button press, unlocking additional Rotation)
This allows the light to be stored in a go-bag, with other personal gear, or in a holster without accidental light activation. To get the light in the fight, simply and quickly rotate the tailcap to the right, press the button and go.

6. Contact Free Switching
The rotating tailcap uses a revolutionary non-mechanical, totally enclosed switching design, so there is no metal-to-metal contact that would ultimately create friction wear points and loss of function. This equates to having a much more dependable and durable switch in all types of environments over a much greater extended time of its competitors.

7. Waterproof
The design of the tailcap allows the end user to take the light to depth and water pressure will not activate the switch. The switch design allows pressure equalization and is not subject to depth restrictions. Repeated use in salt water may require fresh water flushing after use to remove salt crystal build-up.

8. Digital Communication
This light features a proprietary flex circuit that allows the tailcap switch to intelligently communicate with intelligent power management system located at in the front of the flashlight. This flex circuit revolutionizes the ability of the end user to control the functions that the illumination tool performs directly from the tailcap, a feature that no other lighting tool in the world has.

9. Auto Temperature Control
The enemy of LED’s is heat. Heat is what will destroy an LED if it is not managed properly. Within the electronics of the “Gladius” is a feature of automatic temperature control. Although the “Gladius” is unique designed to ventilate heat very effectively there are some occasions where the end user may store the light in an equipment bag or pouch and the light may accidentally become activated. This type of environment does not allow the “Gladius” to ventilate or cool and the temperature of the light will increase and reach a semi-critical temperature. The automatic temperature control feature then cuts the LED power by 50% (30% light reduction) allowing the temperature of the “Gladius” to gradually reduce. If for some reason the temperature is not reduced and it continues to increase a critical temperature threshold the power sent to the LED is automatically terminated to protect the LED of the “Gladius” from being damaged.

10. Low Battery Indication
Run-time of the battery will vary depending on the type of usage and functions that the user requires of the “Gladius”. When the battery life reaches a pre-determined point it will begin a process of three quick (1/10 second) pulses every 10 seconds until the batteries are replaced. This feature continually reminds the end user that the batteries are running low and need to be replaced. This low battery indication is programmed for the momentary and constant on modes.

11. INSERT RUNTIME DATA
Estimated 1 hour @ full power – 200 hours @ lowest setting.

12. INSERT OUT DATA
Lumen Output – Specification forthcoming - Estimated at 85 lumens +


13. Size & Weight Specifications
· Bezel Diameter – 1.25” (Fits SF V70 holsters & filters)
· Tailcap Diameter - 1.25”
· Body Diameter - 1” (for weapons mounted applications)
· Length (Bezel to Tailcap) - 6.23”
· Weight (w/o batteries) - 6.63 oz or 188 grams

14. Two Types of Finishes
· Mil-Spec Type III Anodized – Black
· Mil-Spec Type III Anodized – Olive Drab

15. Optic/Reflector

Currently using an optic to focus. Transitioning to reflector. More intense hot spot, larger corona, greater “Throw”. Better light transmission. Currently using UCL glass with features 99% light throughput. Standard Pyrex rates at 93% throughput.


Note: Practical testing of the strobe mode on non-compliant subjects has been simply amazing.

There are 4 Patents pending on switching/modality that have been submitted.

We are going to recommend that users dedicate a full-set of batteries to learn to intuitively manage the powerful functions of this illumination tool. I am going to recommend that the batteries be provided with the unit.

The more I play with it them more I am smiling inside. Every user so far is experiencing the same positive reaction.

The next several hundred production run units will be in the hands of a larger Beta Test group for final ramp-up.

Expect to hear more from industry writers as the light was exposed to a large cross-section of them earlier this last week. Most were taken back at the leap in technology.


Full production is expected Q1 2005….Think SHOT Show!

BTW….There is much more coming!!!! This is just our first stake in the sand. Game on.

Awe never mind, because this will not be a $75 flashlight....
;f

[DragonRider]

I too am awaiting the Stratego's line of lights.

Till then my Surefire L4 has replaced my Surefire M2, M3, E2e, and E1e untill then. I don't have to worry about a bulb going out on me. It will work everytime I need it, no questions.

Ken, can I get on the waiting list pretty please!!!!!!!

John

[Ken J. Good]

John,

Thanx for the enthusiasim...

Go to http://night-ops.com and sign-up for the Night-Ops information.
We are compiling a mailing list to keep folks directly informed on release information.

[cl147]

I carry a Surefire E1e. It's small enough that I carry it ALL THE TIME, puts out the same amount of light as a 2-D cell Maglight, and weights next to nothing.

Handiest light I've ever used.

[DMoney]

I carry a C-2. It is less expensive than the M-2 (around $90-$110 depending on where you get it). The C-2 has all the options as the M-2 and high output lamps can be bought for the C-2 as well. The only difference is that the C-2 is not compatible with one of SureFire's weapon mounted systems, but unless you are planning on the light on your M-4 going out and having to swap parts from your personal light I don't see it as worth the money. The M-2 also offers a little more shock protection, but again unless its gonna be strapped directly to a large caliber weapon it's not worth the money in my opinion. The C-2 has the O-ring grip so the Rogers/SureFire technique can be used with it. It's a great light and bright for it's size. I carry mine for both everyday flashlight use and self-defense purposes and wouldn't trade it for anything.