OK, who's cooler? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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gwalchmai
10-19-2004, 19:16
So I'm picking up my son and listening to the radio and Barry White is singing "Can't Get Enough of Your Love", and my son gets in the car and hits the rock station button. It's playing Jim Morrison singing "Love Her Madly". I say "Hey! That was Barry White. He's cooler than the Doors!" and switch it back. And so it goes. Back and forth.

I like the Doors, but I think any reasonable person would have to agree that Barry is cooler.

Bogey
10-19-2004, 19:54
The Doors are cool....Barry is smoothe.......

Biker13
10-19-2004, 20:05
The Doors are cool, Barry is for getting into women's pants.;)
Biker13;c

pellertpale
10-20-2004, 12:51
That's the great thing about cool it's an opinion. Barry Dubya

goldflounder
10-21-2004, 17:07
What? The Doors, of course. The Doors are WAY cooler than Barry White. Way WAY cooler. Barry White is a joke. Haven't you heard his Arby's commercial?
;0

--BTW, cool isn't an opinion. Cool has its definite boundaries and Barry White might be technically cooler because he's black and is a soul singer, which can be considered more closely related to jazz, which bore the definition of cool to begin with. But it's a plain fact that the Doors are cooler, as far as counter-culture appeal goes. Ask any musician worth his salt. Plus, the musicians in the Doors were mostly jazz musicians anyway, experimenting with psychadelic rock. Way cooler, IMO.
;+

gwalchmai
10-21-2004, 18:06
Originally posted by goldflounder
What? The Doors, of course. The Doors are WAY cooler than Barry White. Way WAY cooler. Barry White is a joke. Haven't you heard his Arby's commercial? That's just camp. He's parodizing his coolness. Are you saying that any musician who does commercials looses his coolnes? The only reason Morrison isn't doing Arby's commercials is that he killed himself before he got an offer.
--BTW, cool isn't an opinion. Cool has its definite boundaries and Barry White might be technically cooler because he's black and is a soul singer, which can be considered more closely related to jazz, which bore the definition of cool to begin with. Poppycock.
But it's a plain fact that the Doors are cooler, as far as counter-culture appeal goes. Ask any musician worth his salt. Plus, the musicians in the Doors were mostly jazz musicians anyway, experimenting with psychadelic rock. Way cooler, IMO.
;+ In your opinion? See, you don't even buy that ridiculous theory.

fabricator
10-21-2004, 18:15
Oh crap Gwalch, we dont disagree on much but I gotta call ya on this one, Barry is ok but we are talking about the DOORS here man! BTW consider yourself lucky to have a kid who thinks the Doors are cool.:cool:

gwalchmai
10-21-2004, 18:18
Originally posted by fabricator
Oh crap Gwalch, we dont disagree on much but I gotta call ya on this one, Barry is ok but we are talking about the DOORS here man! BTW consider yourself lucky to have a kid who thinks the Doors are cool.:cool: Thanks, Fab, he always makes me proud. ;)

neeko
10-21-2004, 18:50
ODing on H in a tub in France is not cool.

goldflounder
10-21-2004, 19:00
Originally posted by gwalchmai
That's just camp. He's parodizing his coolness. Are you saying that any musician who does commercials looses his coolnes? The only reason Morrison isn't doing Arby's commercials is that he killed himself before he got an offer.
Poppycock.
In your opinion? See, you don't even buy that ridiculous theory.

I don't know why I care, but I feel compelled to argue my case.

Yes, I am saying that a musician who does a commercial loses his coolness. But it doesn't stop there. Jim never would have sold out... one thing he prided himself on was his artistic integrity. I can back this up if you don't believe me. Isaac Hayes was parodizing his coolness with his Beavis & Butthead theme and South Park, obvious humor there. Barry White was going broke and needed a few bucks and some free Arbys, no humor included - pure filth. I wish Jim was still alive and it was Barry who killed himself. Nobody really knows how Jim Morrison died anyway, so it's pure speculation to say that he killed himself.

I can also back up the definition of cool, if you want it. Cool is a term that gets thrown around loosely, but it does undeniably have its roots in jazz, specifically with Miles Davis. Does that ring a bell?

With regards to my opinion, I happen to be a "musician worth my salt" and it's my opinion (largely shared by the music community) that Jim Morrison and the Doors stomp the crap out of Barry White, musically and with respect to their relative coolness.

BTW, I would never pay perfectly good money for a Barry White album. I would rather invest in novelty fake vomit and save my lunch for digestion.
;0

gwalchmai
10-21-2004, 19:15
Originally posted by goldflounder
I don't know why I care, but I feel compelled to argue my case.

Yes, I am saying that a musician who does a commercial loses his coolness. But it doesn't stop there. Jim never would have sold out... one thing he prided himself on was his artistic integrity. I can back this up if you don't believe me. Isaac Hayes was parodizing his coolness with his Beavis & Butthead theme and South Park, obvious humor there. Barry White was going broke and needed a few bucks and some free Arbys, no humor included - pure filth. I wish Jim was still alive and it was Barry who killed himself. Nobody really knows how Jim Morrison died anyway, so it's pure speculation to say that he killed himself.

I can also back up the definition of cool, if you want it. Cool is a term that gets thrown around loosely, but it does undeniably have its roots in jazz, specifically with Miles Davis. Does that ring a bell?

With regards to my opinion, I happen to be a "musician worth my salt" and it's my opinion (largely shared by the music community) that Jim Morrison and the Doors stomp the crap out of Barry White, musically and with respect to their relative coolness.

BTW, I would never pay perfectly good money for a Barry White album. I would rather invest in novelty fake vomit and save my lunch for digestion.
;0 Hmmm, I guess if I made a habit of accepting self-described authorities your post might matter. But I'll use my own judgement to decide. I certainly won't listen to some fool who states that "cool is not an opinion" and then proceeds to give his opinion on cool, justifying himself by claiming to be a musician worth his salt. Your arrogance would be funny if it weren't so sad.

You have no idea what Morrison may have done. He's dead. He may have become Jesus and he may have wound up working at Wal-Mart.

goldflounder
10-21-2004, 19:34
Originally posted by gwalchmai
Hmmm, I guess if I made a habit of accepting self-described authorities your post might matter. But I'll use my own judgement to decide. I certainly won't listen to some fool who states that "cool is not an opinion" and then proceeds to give his opinion on cool, justifying himself by claiming to be a musician worth his salt. Your arrogance would be funny if it weren't so sad.

You have no idea what Morrison may have done. He's dead. He may have become Jesus and he may have wound up working at Wal-Mart.

Since there's no way for me to prove my authority here (:gasp: yes I do know what I'm talking about, Miss poppycock), you can believe me or you can go on believing yourself. I'm no fool, and the word "cool" does have its roots with Miles Davis. "Cool" was a style of jazz music, as opposed to "hot", as in fast beebop. You should be able to research it on the web, if you really care whree cool is from. From what I know, the word "cool" has evolved into a metaphoric meaning, denoting something as laid back, chilled out, or otherwise easier to take than something uncool. Barry white is cool, I suppose, but that doesn't mean that his music is worth listening to. I'm sure you liked it and that's why you're sticking up for him, but that's no reason to insult Mr. Morrison by comparing him to B.W.

Some people say Jim is still alive and well in Mexico. Elvis was abducted... etc. His cause of death was listed as a heart attack and only two people saw him before he was supposedly buried in France. Whatever. If he is still alive, he'd be making music, or at least writing poetry. IMO, Jim was cooler than Jesus.

Biker13
10-21-2004, 19:48
Ya know, folks, we run into this kind of crap in the political, Cops and sometimes General forums. People getting pissed and going off (guilty as charged). The Music Forum should be a little bit more about fun. Eh? Ya know...Disagree without being disagreeable...JMO.
Biker13;c

gwalchmai
10-21-2004, 19:49
Originally posted by goldflounder
Since there's no way for me to prove my authority here (:gasp: yes I do know what I'm talking about, Miss poppycock), you can believe me or you can go on believing yourself. I'm no fool, and the word "cool" does have its roots with Miles Davis. "Cool" was a style of jazz music, as opposed to "hot", as in fast beebop. You should be able to research it on the web, if you really care whree cool is from. From what I know, the word "cool" has evolved into a metaphoric meaning, denoting something as laid back, chilled out, or otherwise easier to take than something uncool. Barry white is cool, I suppose, but that doesn't mean that his music is worth listening to. I'm sure you liked it and that's why you're sticking up for him, but that's no reason to insult Mr. Morrison by comparing him to B.W. No, "cool" is a term defined by its users. It's hard to define, but most people can do so by using examples. You have an opinion, and that's fine. But your opinion is no more valid in this matter than anyone else's, despite your "credentials", which truly mean nothing in this matter.

Now, as to Morrison, he benefits from a timely death followed by cult worship. Same as Hendrix, Joplin, and others. People who buy into these cults assume that if these people woud have lived they would have gotten better and better. Maybe so, maybe not.

Anyway, I still think Barry is cooler, but that shouldn't bother you because, being a world renowned rock-jazz star musician impresario you are cultured and refined enough to know the real truth. ;)

goldflounder
10-21-2004, 19:57
Originally posted by gwalchmai
No, "cool" is a term defined by its users. It's hard to define, but most people can do so by using examples. You have an opinion, and that's fine. But your opinion is no more valid in this matter than anyone else's, despite your "credentials", which truly mean nothing in this matter.

Now, as to Morrison, he benefits from a timely death followed by cult worship. Same as Hendrix, Joplin, and others. People who buy into these cults assume that if these people woud have lived they would have gotten better and better. Maybe so, maybe not.

Anyway, I still think Barry is cooler, but that shouldn't bother you because, being a world renowned rock-jazz star musician impresario you are cultured and refined enough to know the real truth. ;)

Um, no, the Doors were insanely popular before Jim's death. Of course he became more famous after he died, so did Abraham Lincoln.

Assuming this discussion does indeed have nothing to do with the original definition of "cool" and is being based upon what the word "cool" has evolved into, you're still wrong. If you really think you're not wrong (I don't know why I care about this so much, but I can't stop typing) and are instead right, please offer up a definition of cool for me to feast my hazel eyes on.

I'm a rock drummer/drum teacher who has played a few shows in Seattle. Of course, I'll be a rockstar someday, I'll even forget this little exchange and give you backstage passes to a show if you'd like. Yep, that's right, baby. I do indeed have an extensive knowlege of music, mainly rock music and I have heard the opinions of many other musicians, mostly drummers and guitarists, jazz and rock alike. Nowhere have I ever heard praise for Barry White, other than for his annoyingly low voice. The Doors are a constant recipient of praise for their psychadelic expansion into popular music. So there.

--I guess some chicks just dig Barry White. I don't; I think he's a big, fat, sleazy greaseball. Can we leave it at that? Probably not.

Tptoe
10-21-2004, 20:08
How can that skinny white boy with stringy hair be cool .... hmmmm ?

gwalchmai
10-21-2004, 20:09
Originally posted by Biker13
Ya know, folks, we run into this kind of crap in the political, Cops and sometimes General forums. People getting pissed and going off (guilty as charged). The Music Forum should be a little bit more about fun. Eh? Ya know...Disagree without being disagreeable...JMO.
Biker13;c I'm cool with that, Biker. This was just a little fluff thread for me. Cool's whatever anyone wants it to be. Once people start claiming to have a monopoly on it I just get a little argumentative, because I've never had much tolerance for that sort of thing. I'll be nice. ;)

goldflounder
10-22-2004, 22:48
Originally posted by Tptoe
How can that skinny white boy with stringy hair be cool .... hmmmm ?

Hey, that skinny white boy had a lot of hit singles, you know. ;c