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Wayne02
10-20-2004, 17:30
3:45 pm pst, Wednesday 10/20/04.

Working away on my very old but previously reliable Dell system, and the monitor picture starts jumping up and down rapidly. Text is still visible its just that the whole picture is jumping erratically. Did a reboot, and the monitor does this even at the dos looking start-up screens before xp has started booting. Monitor is 19" Dell trinitron (sony re-badged?).

Tried manual degauss, and played with all of the on board monitor controls. Smacked monitor up-side the plastic a couple times as well, to no avail.

Anything else I should try? Is it possible that the video card is causing this? What are the probabilities it is the card and not the monitor?

Should I just go to Costco in the am and get another monitor? I absolutely need this system up tomorrow morning for business. While I can read and type text with the way it is now, I can't begin to tell yo how irritating it is having the screen jumping around like this.

How about this monitor from Costco:
The Princeton VL1916 19-inch LCD flat panel display is the perfect space-saving solution for your home or business PC. With SXGA 1280 x 1024 optimum resolution, the VL1916 offers excellent viewing angles and features anti-glare and hard (3H) coating for long-lasting performance.

Display:

19" LCD Flat Panel Display
Maximum Resolution: 1280 x 1024 SXGA
Color Support: 24-bit, 16.7M colors
Contrast Ratio: 700:1
Brightness: 250 cd/m2
Dot Pitch: 0.294mm pixel pitch
Viewing Angle: 170° (H/V)
Features:
Antiglare with hard-coating 3H
Includes: monitor, power cable, video cable and instructions
Speakers: Built in stereo speakers
Input Connection:

Analog: VGA (D-Sub)
Digital: DVI (DVI-D)

User Controls:

4 button control for OSD
Stand-by power switch
Power LED PreVu OSD: Brightness, Contrast, Black Level, Clock, Phase, H/V Position, Auto Setup, All Reset, OSD Position, Power Saving, Language, Color

General:

Color: Black and Silver
Dimensions: 17.21"W x 18.51"H x 7.68"D (including base)
Weight: 13 lbs.
Warranty: 1 Year Parts & Labor
$450 in store.


Second costco option:
The Sharp LL191AB 19-inch (viewable) super-slim bezel LCD Monitor offers a wide range of features that will fit your home computing and business needs. With 1.3 Megapixel (1280x1024) resolution, pixel pitch of 0.294mm, brightness of 220 nits, an amazing contrast ratio of 500:1, viewing angles of 160° horizontal and 160° vertical, 50,000 hour (typical) backlight, and a lightning fast 16 ms response time.

Display:

Screen Size: 19" TFT LCD
Resolution: 1280 x 1024 SXGA
Pixel Pitch: 0.294mm
Brightness: 220 cd/mē
Contrast Ratio: 500:1
Output Color: 16.19 million colors
Viewing Angle: 160° H/160° V
Response time: 16ms
Screen Tilt: Up 25°, Down 5°
Input Connection:

Analog Signal Cable 15-pin mini D-Sub
Mini-stereo audio
Additional Features:

Speakers: 1 watt + 1 watt
Headphone: 3.5mm stereo mini-plug
Security: Kensington Lock
Power Consumption: 36W (power save mode 1.8W), 33W (without speaker)
Backlight Life: Approximately 50,000 hours
Accessories:

Analog Signal Cable 15-pin mini D-Sub
Audio Cable
CD-ROM(Utility including ICC Profile for Windows/Macintosh)
Operation Manual
General:

Color: Black
Dimensions: 16.5"W x 16.1"H x 8.4"D
Weight: 17.2lbs.
Power Supply: AC100-240V, 50Hz/60Hz
Warranty: 3 Year Limited
$550
What is an analog signal cable 15-pin mini d-sub? Will that fit my old machine?


Third option:
Sceptre offers space-saving LCD monitors that display sharp, brilliant images. "X" series monitors are energy-efficient flat panels for Professional and Home Users.

Display:

Screen Size: 20.1" TFT LCD
Resolution: 1600 x 1200 UXGA
Pixel Pitch: 0.297mm
Brightness: 300 cd/mē
Contrast Ratio: 700:1
Output Color: 16.7 million colors
Viewing Angle: 170° H/170° V
Response time: 25ms
Screen Tilt: Up 30°, Down 5°
Input Connection:

DVI 24-pin connector
VGA 15-pin mini D-Sub
S-Video
RCA Video
USB 2.0 ready (1 up, 2 down)
Additional Features:

Speakers: 2 x 2 watts
Headphone: 3.5mm stereo mini-plug
General:

Color: Black
Dimensions: 17.5"W x 14.75"H x 9"D
Weight: 18lbs.
Power Supply: AC100-240V, 50Hz/60Hz
Warranty: 1 Year Limited
$700


Last option:
tttFor people who want an enhanced, stylish LCD with high-contrast and crystal clear image quality. User-friendly and intuitive controls interface with on-screen display system. Easily adjusted height and view angle with this slim, lightweight model.

Display:

19" Flat Panel Display (VIA 19")
Resolution: 1280 x 1024 SXGA @ 75 Hz
Contrast Ratio: 600:1
Dot Pitch: 0.294mm dot pitch
Brightness: 250 cd/mē
Response Time 25ms
Display Colors 16.7M
Viewing Angles: 170 degrees Left/Right; 85 degrees Up/Down 85 degrees
Features:

Built-in multimedia speakers
PC or Mac compatibility
Power Consumption: 50 watt
UL listed
Dimensions:
19.06"" W x 5.91" D x 19.69" H
Weight: 13.44 lbs.
One year limited warranty on parts and labor
Inputs / Outputs:

DVI
VGA 15-pin D-SUB
Analog
Audio in/out
$450

Which one of these is my best bet?

Do these new style monitors have the old large multi-pin (forgot the technical term) connector on them? I hope so, because that's the only type of connection this old box has.

Must sign off now, can't take it anymore, have headache, eyes hurt... Will check back this evening.

Thanks
Wayne

Weaps
10-20-2004, 18:01
CRT's do that eventually. I have a Sun (Sony) trinitron 21" flat CRT that occasionally goes bonkers in a similar manner to that which you describe. So far I've been able to make it stop by shutting it down for awhile and then it comes back. Cross fingers; it's a nice monitor.

LCD's don't since they have a backlight rather than the Cathode Ray Tube thingy.

Your video card would not produce that behavior.

Maxthemutt
10-20-2004, 22:22
My Magview 19inch CRT crapped out on me and I bought a Dell 2001FP flat screen LCD, it rocks! It was over $700 but I am very happy with it. I've got atleast twice the desktop space.

Toyman
10-21-2004, 07:39
Sometimes a good hard whack on the side will fix the CRT for a little while, but other than that, plan on buying a new one. :)

Get an LCD, they are really nice. After you get the LCD, download ClearTweak, it will make the text look much nicer on an LCD:

http://www.ioisland.com/cleartweak/

Wayne02
10-21-2004, 16:35
Couldn't get the crt to stop shaking. Left it turned off for awhile, smacked it around, still no workie. I purchased this crt in 1998 and it has been on just about 24/7 ever since. 6 year life span, is that about normal? Seems like these expensive electronics should last longer then that? Wishful thinking I suppose.

Just got a new monitor hooked up from Costco. 19" lcd job, $500 out the door.

Much to my surprise, this new monitor is not as good as the old one. 1998 technology is not as good a 04 technology? What's up with that? Are we going backward here?

Text is not as crisp as on the trinitron crt. Pictures are not as sharp. The screen blurs every-time you scroll up or down. Sometimes when I'm really hauling with my typing I can even get it to blur. This blur/scrolling thing is really irritating when reading a long document. The screen brightness does not seem uniform across the surface. The screen seems much more sensitive to how the ambient light hits it, and what angle you are viewing it at.

The ONLY thing better about this new monitor is that the foot print is smaller. That's nice and all, but certainly not a priority compared to clarity and sharpness of the screen. Very disappointing indeed.

Why is this 2004 technology, $500 monitor, of less quality then my old 1998 unit?

Not sure if this info is pertinent, but I'm running xp pro, and I like to run at 800x600 resolution because I need the larger text size. Do they still make 19" crt's? Will a 04 crt match the quality of the 98?

I'm off to try the download Toyman posted to see if that helps.

Thanks
Wayne

Weaps
10-21-2004, 16:52
Originally posted by Wayne02
Much to my surprise, this new monitor is not as good as the old one. 1998 technology is not as good a 04 technology? What's up with that? Are we going backward here?

Text is not as crisp as on the trinitron crt. Pictures are not as sharp. The screen blurs every-time you scroll up or down. Sometimes when I'm really hauling with my typing I can even get it to blur. This blur/scrolling thing is really irritating when reading a long document. The screen brightness does not seem uniform across the surface. The screen seems much more sensitive to how the ambient light hits it, and what angle you are viewing it at.

The ONLY thing better about this new monitor is that the foot print is smaller. That's nice and all, but certainly not a priority compared to clarity and sharpness of the screen. Very disappointing indeed.

Why is this 2004 technology, $500 monitor, of less quality then my old 1998 unit?

Not sure if this info is pertinent, but I'm running xp pro, and I like to run at 800x600 resolution because I need the larger text size. Do they still make 19" crt's? Will a 04 crt match the quality of the 98?

I'm off to try the download Toyman posted to see if that helps.

Thanks
Wayne

Yep, that's why I have a 20" and 21" CRT gracing both my home and work offices. LCD's just don't have the crispness, sharpness, and crystal clear graphical capabilities the CRT has. Yes, 2004 model CRT's are just as good or better than 1998 CRT's. I got the 20" CRT I have at home from www.compgeeks.com. They currently have a Sony refurb monitor for $89. Mine is a refurb and has been working great since delivered (about six months now) with no quirks. It'll cost about $40 to have that 80lb thing shipped to you depending on where you live, but you'll have a grand monitor for under $150 that'll go up to 1280x1024.

Other places sell rather large CRT's for similar prices as well. CRT's are also better for gaming, and for graphical work which is the primary reason I have a CRT instead of an LCD.

Tvov
10-21-2004, 17:17
I've heard about the graphics being better on CRTs, but...

Our "new" computer has a Gateway FPD1730 17" Flat LCD, and the graphics are great, at least to me. Maybe if I put it next to a CRT I would see a difference.

I'm not sure what is meant by "blurring" when scrolling, as far as I can tell mine doesn't. A friend who does graphic design uses an LCD, a huge 20 something inch (might be a 25" or 27") Apple monitor. His seems to have crystal clear graphics. Is it just a really good monitor?

Weaps
10-21-2004, 17:21
Originally posted by Tvov
A friend who does graphic design uses an LCD, a huge 20 something inch (might be a 25" or 27") Apple monitor. His seems to have crystal clear graphics. Is it just a really good monitor?

Yes, Apple monitors are the best LCD's on the market currently. We have a couple of imacs which have beautiful 17" 16:9 monitors that are so good you can't tell it's an LCD. They are expensive as well.

Also some LCD's are better than others, but pretty much all CRT's are equivalent to one another.

Wayne02
10-21-2004, 20:51
Well I've been using it for several hours now, and these lcd's suck compared to the crt. I don't understand why the market accepts this type of backward progress. Are people really more concerned with form factor (flat panel, thin case) then the actual quality of the image?

I've since done a bit more research, and I don't see that much difference in the image quality specs between the various lcd's. Leading me to believe that a more expensive lcd would not necessarily be any better then my $500 special.

The lack of crispness, definition, and clarity is stunning on these lcd's. I did download cleartype and that helped a bit. But the image is still far inferior to my old crt.

I looked at that refurbed crt on the linked site and it has some sort of proprietary connector on it.

Wish I could find a refurbed trinitron somewhere. I'd take this lcd back so fast it would make your head spin.

Wayne

Wayne02
10-21-2004, 21:56
What about this one? $250 delivered, 3 year warranty.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41807&item=5131957801&rd=1

Weaps
10-22-2004, 09:52
Originally posted by Wayne02
I looked at that refurbed crt on the linked site and it has some sort of proprietary connector on it.

Wish I could find a refurbed trinitron somewhere. I'd take this lcd back so fast it would make your head spin.

Wayne

Oops, didn't see that. It has a Sun frame buffer connector, which is the same as my Sun monitor at work. There is an adapter that will allow it to be connected to a VGA port on your computer, (I have one on mine) but that's still a hassle, and I don't remember where I got the one I have.

The ebay monitor looks pretty cool. Just make sure that it comes with a standard VGA port, or comes with said adapter. Also there are other places which have large screen CRT's; perhaps check pricewatch.

Wayne02
10-22-2004, 11:07
LCD is not ready for prime time. Clearly inferior to crt picture quality. I'm firing this monitor. Will be returning to costco on next weeks trip. Shame on me for not doing my homework first. I ASSumed that monitor technology would be superior in 04 to my 98 unit. That's what I get for assuming.

Just ordered this one:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=24-002-040&DEPA=0

22" and 65 pounds of desk pounding, graphics producing, text optimizing, line drawing, number displaying, picture producing pent-up monitor horsepower... Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Might as well go big. Plus it's not prone to theft because nobody can lift it.:)

Got one off ebay for $170 less then newegg's price. New in the box w/ 3 year warranty. $80 less then the lcd I'm returning.

Wayne

Tvov
10-22-2004, 15:42
Originally posted by Wayne02


22" and 65 pounds

Holy crap! Are you going to have to reinforce your desk to hold that?? :cool:

Weaps
10-22-2004, 15:48
That's actually light. Both of my big CRT monitors weigh 80lbs. The one I used to have (a Sun 19") did begin bowing the pressboard desk I used to have. Now I have a steel desk with a glass top to support the current 80lb monitor.

Big reason people like the LCD's despite their image quality.

c6601a
10-23-2004, 06:01
Originally posted by Wayne02
LCD is not ready for prime time.Have you considered that it may not be a LCD problem but rather an operator problem? Every LCD has a native resolution and it works best when your desktop is set to the same resolution.

What is the resolution of your LCD?

What is the size of your desktop?

If the two are not the same, you are guaranteed a crappy picture, especially if your desktop is slightly smaller than your LCD.

Wayne02
10-23-2004, 10:35
Originally posted by c6601a
Have you considered that it may not be a LCD problem but rather an operator problem?
Possible, but not likely. Spent some time at a computer nerds house who does detail design and graphics work. He has a couple lcd's (family uses them for email) and four or five crt's. All were properly configured and set-up. The side by side comparison was striking to say the least. Particularly when it came to detail design applications, and digital photo re-touching applications.

Toyman
10-26-2004, 08:32
Originally posted by c6601a
Have you considered that it may not be a LCD problem but rather an operator problem? Every LCD has a native resolution and it works best when your desktop is set to the same resolution.

What is the resolution of your LCD?

What is the size of your desktop?

If the two are not the same, you are guaranteed a crappy picture, especially if your desktop is slightly smaller than your LCD.

Yeah, what he said. With the wrong setting, they can look really bad. Dot Pitch is a big thing also, there are cheesy LCD's, and there are nice ones, just like CRT's.