Firefox vs. IE [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Old School
11-18-2004, 07:34
My router is dropping packets like rain in a hurricane and the tech support group said to try a different browser (no it didn't make a difference) so I downloaded Firefox.

I can't really tell the difference between it and IE. How do the two compare?

fastvfr
11-18-2004, 08:58
Well, for one thing, IE is a kernel program with Windows, while Mozilla browsers are modules.

In other words, malware entering through IE is already at the heart of Explorer.exe, and so it has a far easier time installing itself and wreaking havoc than something attampting an attack through a modular browser.

There are also thousands of security holes in IE, which allow all sorts of lovely 'Value-Added Features" like automatic drive-by downloads, malicious websites being allowed to add CWS and other Search bars, as well as change your homepage; not to mention the Pop-up ads that I never even see in Moz...

There is a world of difference between the two; you don't see it by looking just at the interface. The 'goods' are deeper than that, and it has prompted everyone from me to the Government to wonder why anyone would ever run IE for any reason, outside of Windows Update functions...

HerrGlock
11-18-2004, 09:35
Originally posted by Old School
I can't really tell the difference between it and IE. How do the two compare?

Start using tabs and then ask that question again... ;f

DanH

SamBuca
11-18-2004, 11:23
Ok...stop.

First, what does a browser have to do with a router dropping packets? A router is SUPPOSED to drop packets. As crap from the internet comes in, the router decides whether it should pass it on to your network or not...hence...routing the traffic.

Second, Firefox is not a module. It's a separate program.

Third, since you already installed Firefox, give it a try for a bit. Tabbed browsing is the new hotness and you'll pick up less garbage while browsing.

Old School
11-18-2004, 12:52
Sam - I had to laugh when I read your post...since I'm thought the same thing.

The router worked great for months, and then all the sudden I started getting the 'page not found' errors intermittenly. Usually clicking refresh will bring up the page. It usually happens within the first 3 sites I visit (many times it chokes on my home page - which is google.com) and none of them are secure site. All the IE and router settings have been checked and rechecked (even though it worked for months and nothing has changed - no I have not installed XP SP 2 or anything else).

No problem web browsing without the router (but I can only browse with one computer at a time). With the PCs going through the router, I can ping all the web sites and no packets are lost. The router (D-link di-604) has a tracking log that tells me that it is dropping packets.

D-link tech support said that, since I can ping with no packet loss, it must be spyware or some other problem with the browser. I've been running Zone Alarm Pro and Ad-Aware for years so I doubt it spyware. I ran their recommended spyware cleaner and nothing changed. Pop ups aren't an issue with Z/A. The suggestion of a new browser was a requirement to bump up on the next level of support at d-link.

I'm not sure what 'tabs' are, but for how I use a browser (open, click on favorites, look at ESPN, GlockTalk, FAL forum, Foxnews, yahoo mail, etc) I can't tell a difference between it and IE. I like the concept of a non Microsoft browser, thus my original post.

HerrGlock
11-18-2004, 13:23
Originally posted by Old School

D-link tech support said that, since I can ping with no packet loss, it must be spyware or some other problem with the browser.


Your tech support is smoking crack.

ping is icmp and really small packets. Ping is wonderful... for checking to see if a box is up or not and that the connection between machines is up or not, but that's about it. Binary (up or not) only.

Dropped packets are a different matter. Since it's a router you're playing with, you may want to check a minor setting that will make you pull hair out for weeks.

Check to see that the boxes connected to the router are on the same duplex setting as the ports they're connected to in the router. If the machine says half duplex and the router says full (or visa-versa), you'll get exactly the symptoms you are describing. Reboot the router is a generally good way to fix this or hard set the ports to one or the other and make sure the box can support whatever it is that you hard set.



I'm not sure what 'tabs' are, but for how I use a browser (open, click on favorites, look at ESPN, GlockTalk, FAL forum, Foxnews, yahoo mail, etc) I can't tell a difference between it and IE. I like the concept of a non Microsoft browser, thus my original post.

Open firefox.
Go to your home page (google, right?)
do a search on anything (glock forums)
on each of the first three/four links that come back, right click on the link and mouse down to "Open link in new tab" and look at the top of your browser, under your bookmark bar.

You'll see tabs start to populate. Each tab is a distinct browser window but they are all within one primary browser window.

Give it a shot.

DanH

Wulfenite
11-18-2004, 14:44
I dont really like the tabs. I so conditioned to mousing to the bottom of the page to switch between windows that I forget the tabs are at the top. ALso I have my tracball set up with the far right key to Alt-Tab so I can use that for switching. But it doesnt switch between tabs, only windows.

Old School
11-18-2004, 16:35
Dan H. thanks for the suggestion - how do I determine if the PCs are in full or half duplex mode? I will check, although I doubt it is the problem since I turn off the cable modem, router and PCs every night. The router also worked for months before the problem popped up.

Harlequin
11-18-2004, 17:55
Firefox's advantages over IE are much more numerous than just tabs. Want popup blocking without another program running? Firefox will do it. Want ad blocking without another program running? Firefox will do it, although it takes an extension which integrates itself.

IE is so far behind the times I can't believe it's still used. If you actually prefer IE to some other browser, whatever that happens to be, you need to come out of the stone age.

HerrGlock
11-18-2004, 19:31
Originally posted by Old School
Dan H. thanks for the suggestion - how do I determine if the PCs are in full or half duplex mode? I will check, although I doubt it is the problem since


The logs on the D-Link should tell you. Is there a status per port or per connection within your router?

PC's... (hold on...windows...windows... grrrr.) You had to:
Checking/Setting Duplex Mode for various operation systems
Solaris
To check the duplex:

ndd /dev/hme link_mode

Where a return value of 0 = half duplex, and 1 = full duplex

To force to full duplex:

ndd -sec /dev/hme adv_100fdx_cap
ndd -set /dev/hme adv_autoneg_cap 0

To force to half duplex:

ndd -sec /dev/hme adv_100hdx_cap
ndd -set /dev/hme adv_autoneg_cap 0

Linux
For many ethernet cards you can use the program mii-tool. For more information, see Scyld's ethernet setup page. For example:

mii-tool -F 100baseTx-FD eth0

The following may also be used with some common cards:

To set eepro100 cards to full-duplex:
in /etc/modules.conf (for Redhat Linux)
options eepro100 options=48

For 3c59x cards:
options 3c59x options=0x204 full_duplex=0x200
FreeBSD
To check the duplex: Just use ifconfig -a

To force to full duplex:
ifconfig xl0 media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex

To force to half duplex:
ifconfig xl0 media 100baseTX mediaopt half-duplex

Note: This works for all devices, not just the xl0 driver.
Compaq Tru64 Unix See the FAQ

IBM AIX
To get a list of adapters:
lsdev -HCc adapter

To check the duplex:
lsattr -d ent#

To force to full duplex:
chdev -l ent# -a media_speed=100_Full_Duplex -P
reboot

To force to half duplex:
chdev -l ent# -a media_speed=100_Half_Duplex -P
reboot

HP-UX
To get a list of adapters:

HP-UX 10.x uses the Network Management IDs
lanscan -n

HP-UX 11.x uses the PPA numbers
lanscan -p

To check the duplex:
lanadmin -x NMid# (HP-UX 10.x)
lanadmin -x PPA# (HP-UX 11.x)

To force to full duplex:
lanadmin -X 100FD NMid# (HP-UX 10.x)
lanadmin -X 100FD PPA# (HP-UX 11.x)

To force to half duplex:
lanadmin -X 100HD NMid# (HP-UX 10.x)
lanadmin -X 100HD PPA# (HP-UX 11.x)
____________________

Blast, drat, dirty laundry... where's the WIN based stuff?

AHA!!!

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/325487
6. Check the network adapter and uplink hardware (hub or switch) for common settings. Make sure that all complementing network resources (network adapter, hub, and switch) are set to the same speed and duplex level. If the media type is set to autosense, autosensing, or autodetect, or "Auto Select," make sure that all components are autosensing correctly.

On some switches, a duplex setting of Auto may cause it to use half-duplex. You may have to force it to use full-duplex.

Reset the switch, restart the client, and test the connectivity.

Put the client and the server on a passive hub. If communication resumes, the problem may be caused by an incorrect network switch configuration.

For more information about how to configure the devices, contact your hardware vendor.
7. Manually set the network adapter of the computer that has connectivity problems to half-duplex and a lower speed.

Connect the system to a switch that is configured to half-duplex and 10-Mbps, or use a 10-Mbps hub, to see if connection can be established at a lower transmission speed.

To increase performance, increase the speed settings manually to 100 Mbps, and then restart the computers. Test for network connectivity loss, increase the setting to full-duplex, and then restart the computers. If network loss occurs, reduce the duplex setting and the speed to the previous settings.
8. Swap the network cable between the failing system and the hub or switch.
9. Replace the network adapter with a network adapter that has been tested and proven reliable. To do this, follow these steps:
a. Remove the network adapter diagnostics program.
b. Remove the network adapter in Network properties.
c. Install the new network adapter.
10. Run Network Monitor at the same time on both ends of the network connection. After you filter the traces on the addresses of the two systems, compare both traces to see if you can see the same traffic.

Use TCP Retransmit, the Network Monitor Experts tool, to detect TCP retransmissions. To do this, follow these steps:
a. Start Network Monitor.
b. On the Tools menu, click Experts, and then click TCP Retransmit in the left pane.
c. Click Add to Runlist.
d. Click Run Experts.
If frames are missing in one of the traces, check all intermediate cabling, hubs, switches, and routers for hardware or configuration errors.

In Network Monitor, view the Capture Statistics summary frame. This frame is the last frame of the trace. If it contains a value other than 0 in the following statistic counters, the connectivity problem may be caused by a hardware or configuration problem:
STATS: MAC CRC Errors = 0
STATS: MAC Frames Dropped due to HardWare Errors = 0
Network switches and server network adapters have to have the duplex settings matched for communication to function correctly. Both must be set to full-duplex or half-duplex. They cannot be mismatched.

The computers on a local area network (LAN) typically share a common full-duplex network medium. This configuration permits two computers to transmit data at the same time.

Connectivity problems may occur if either of the following conditions is true:
The computer was moved to a new Ethernet switch port that automatically senses network speed. However, the computer's network adapter is configured to force full-duplex communication with a static network transfer speed setting (10 Mbps, 100 Mbps, or 1 gigabit per second [Gbps]).
Both the Ethernet switch port and the computer's network adapter are configured to force 100-Mbps or 1-Gbps full-duplex communication. However, the Ethernet switch or the network adapter may not be able to communicate at that rate or may not be able to use full-duplex transmissions.
You can improve network performance in an Ethernet LAN environment by using full-duplex hardware. This configuration permits two-way communication between networked devices. Without full-duplex hardware, information is sent one way and then sent the other way. Packets frequently collide on the network in a half-duplex hardware configuration, and every time a collision occurs, the packets that collided must be resent. This creates even more traffic that can decrease network performance.

With full-duplex, transmit and receive paths are separate. Therefore, you can transmit and receive at the same time, and collisions are prevented. Because of the increased throughput and lack of collisions, full-duplex is more susceptible to bad cable terminations or to cable attenuation that exceeds recommended limits. This can generate data retransmissions that become sufficient to degrade performance.


I turn off the cable modem, router and PCs every night. The router also worked for months before the problem popped up.

Don't turn those things off. They're not made for it. Every time you boot them back up, you risk problems. Your PC, perhaps, but leave the network equipment on.

DanH

Rich22
11-19-2004, 01:15
I like firefox a lot more, never much gotten into using the tabbed browsing but let me tell you, the lack of popups (i've gotten 1 in the last 6 months) will save you so much time it's not even funny.

Rich

Dead Man's Hand
11-19-2004, 01:29
Use IE for a day, run Ad-Aware and it will find at least 6 new spyware traces.

Use Firefox for a week, run Ad-Aware and it will not find any new spyware traces.

Washington,D.C.
11-19-2004, 01:39
I turn off my DSL modem and PC every day.I leave the router powdered on always because the papers with it said that it could lose it's settings if it is switched off for more than 8 hours.Last year during the hurricane we lost power for 24 hours.The router still worked properly when the power came back.I think some routers say that they shouldn't be without power for longer than a half hour.

Washington,D.C.
11-19-2004, 01:42
I use Mozilla or Netscape most of the time.I've tried Firefox and Opera.One thing I've noticed is Java takes longer to load in Mozilla than in IE.

unixglocker
11-19-2004, 08:03
Dropping packets and not just having trouble with dns for some reason? Not sure why the NAT box would be having trouble specifically with DNS but stranger things have happened.

MrsKitty
11-19-2004, 09:17
Originally posted by Washington,D.C.
I use Mozilla or Netscape most of the time.I've tried Firefox and Opera.One thing I've noticed is Java takes longer to load in Mozilla than in IE.

Opera user here :)

kckndrgn
11-19-2004, 09:54
Originally posted by Wulfenite
I dont really like the tabs. I so conditioned to mousing to the bottom of the page to switch between windows that I forget the tabs are at the top. ALso I have my tracball set up with the far right key to Alt-Tab so I can use that for switching. But it doesnt switch between tabs, only windows.

Go HERE (http://kb-upgrade.mozillazine.org/index.php/Keyboard_Shortcuts) for the key board shortcuts for Firefox. If you can program another key on your track ball with <CTRL-Page UP> or <CTRL>-<Page Down> you can accomplish the same thing, moving between the tabs. You can also move your tabs to the bottom of the browser by adding this:

/* Display the Tabbar at the bottom */
#content > tabbox {-moz-box-direction: reverse;}

to this file:
userchrome.css

This file may not exsist (it didn't on my system) but several example files were provided. Copy one of the examples to the chrome directory under your profile then add the information above and rename it userchrome.css. Close and restart your browser and your tabs will be on the bottome.



Ryan

eljefe6
11-19-2004, 11:43
Firefox is an incredible program. Some of the good points:

Tabbed Browsing
Better Security
Still Be Developed (IE Development stopped as of Windows XP)
Better Theme Support
Faster Page Renders
Excellent Theme Support


I have been helping my co-workers to make the switch and most of them have.

Old School
11-19-2004, 22:14
Dan - I looked up the duplex setting and everyone was playing the same game.

unixglocker - tech support had me hard code the ip addresses of the primary and secondary DNS servers. That made it worse. Tonight's solution was to downgrade (opposite of upgrade) the firmware down to what was described as a "more stable" version. No luck.

As painless as the install was, I plan on using Firefox quite a bit now.

oldsmith
03-12-2005, 07:52
Originally posted by HerrGlock
Start using tabs and then ask that question again... ;f

DanH

Tabs rule. I started using them with the last Netscape, but it always crashed within 5 minutes. I like Firefox.

Washington,D.C.
03-12-2005, 13:31
I'm using the new Netscape based on Firefox.It works great http://browser.netscape.com/nsb/download/default.jsp

ERASER
03-14-2005, 15:59
I have tried Firefox, too. The pages seem to load faster than I.E.

I have a whole lot of links to websites on my desktop and in folders that were created using I.E. Can someone tell me how I can convert those to Firefox links? Then I guess I'd like to know how to disable/uninstall I.E. (if that's possible).

Thanks, in advance, for the help.

Washington,D.C.
03-14-2005, 16:14
I'm not sure which type of links you have but on my PC I set Firefox to be the default browser and my old IE links now open in Firefox.

Cinic
03-14-2005, 16:33
Originally posted by ERASER
I have tried Firefox, too. The pages seem to load faster than I.E.

I have a whole lot of links to websites on my desktop and in folders that were created using I.E. Can someone tell me how I can convert those to Firefox links? Then I guess I'd like to know how to disable/uninstall I.E. (if that's possible).

Thanks, in advance, for the help.

Did you try the File>Import button?

I don't know about disabling IE, but you can set Firefox as your default browser.

ERASER
03-14-2005, 18:09
Great!
Thanks guys!!

Washington,D.C.
03-14-2005, 21:57
Come to think of it,just by setting Firefox as the default browser the IE links on my desktop changed from IE icons to Firefox icons.

DragonBreath
03-16-2005, 13:55
Old School, I have had similar problems like what you are having now. I was able to fix them by adjusting the MTU setting. You can find instructions for your model router at the following link DI-604 (http://support.dlink.com/faq/view.asp?prod_id=1297&question=General-Routers) I hope this helps you out. Let us know if this works.
db

Harlequin
03-17-2005, 06:45
Want to make Firefox even faster? Try using some of the suggestions in this site:

http://www.tweakfactor.com/articles/tweaks/firefoxtweak/4.html

It's a summary of a huge thread on the Firfox forums. Using the appropriate settings, I get page loads in the half second range. It's amazing!