Electronics tecnicians (GS-0856, WG-26XX) - Please help! [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Electronics tecnicians (GS-0856, WG-26XX) - Please help!


grampi
11-27-2004, 08:17
If there are any of you in this forum, please respond to this message. I served 22 years active duty in the Air Force and have been seeking federal employment for almost 3 years now as an ET with no luck. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Delta_3_63
11-27-2004, 09:00
Whereabouts you located grampi? Just a general area so folks know where to look.

grampi
11-27-2004, 09:07
Huber Heights, OH (which is near Dayton), but I am willing to relocate for a job if necessary.

grampi
11-27-2004, 12:56
delta_3_63

Where'd you go?

Ed Ely
11-27-2004, 13:06
Please go here -

http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/

For info - the Veterans Administration has WGs and GSs.

The WGs carry on as electronics mechanics (they function
as "doctors" of everything that the ETs can't/won't handle).

The other GSs fall into the ET category. They are bio-
medical techs and the other are ETs who do what is known
in the Air Force as 'black box' changers. The latter have
damn good jobs working in the information services area (computer networking).

All are paid very well and most of the jobs are 8-5, M/F with
some call back.

The FAA has the most highly paid ETs. Most are GS12-14s, with
supervisory hitting the GS15. These are technicians, not
engineers.

What was your career field in the Air Force?

Ed

grampi
11-27-2004, 15:52
Originally posted by Ed Ely
Please go here -

http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/

For info - the Veterans Administration has WGs and GSs.

The WGs carry on as electronics mechanics (they function
as "doctors" of everything that the ETs can't/won't handle).

The other GSs fall into the ET category. They are bio-
medical techs and the other are ETs who do what is known
in the Air Force as 'black box' changers. The latter have
damn good jobs working in the information services area (computer networking).

All are paid very well and most of the jobs are 8-5, M/F with
some call back.

The FAA has the most highly paid ETs. Most are GS12-14s, with
supervisory hitting the GS15. These are technicians, not
engineers.

What was your career field in the Air Force?

Ed

Let me give you a little of my background. I gained my electronics experience as a 2M0X1, and most of that time was spent in E-lab and VACE.

I'm very familiar with OPM's web site. Im fact, I have an on-line resume posted on their site, as well as on AFPC's site, and the DOC. Over the last 2 1/2 years I have applied for roughly 200 federal jobs and the closest I've come to a job offer was one telephone interview. I've applied for jobs in the following series; 0856, 2602, 2604, 2606, 2608, and 2610.

I also have a 40% disability giving me a 10 point veteran's preference and non-competitve status. However, even this hasn't helped me land a job.

I thought if I could contact someone (outside the work center) having some connection with these positions, it might be possible to find out if my resume might need some tuning up, or if they might have some other usful info that may help me get over that final hump.

As a final note, I thought I'd add that I have been referred to the selecting official for the vast majority of the jobs I've applied for, but for some reason, I just never make it through the final selection phase. This tells me I'm qualified for the positions, but who knows why I'm not being selected. I know this sounds so cleche' and everyone thinks they are the best candidte, but I do have very good qualifications, and I find it hard to believe that in each and every one of the 200 jobs I've applied for, there was always someone who was more qualified. It just seems to me that maybe I've been a victum of the "good ol buddy" system at least a few times anyway.

P.S. I originally intended to hire on with the FAA, but they've had a hiring freeze on their ET poisitons for the last 3 years. I actually spoke to some ET's who work for the FAA about year ago to find out what was going on with these positions. They said the FAA hires contractors to fill ET vacancies when they absolutely need to fill these positions. They haven't hired any new ET's in a long time. Don't know what's going on with this.

Ed Ely
11-27-2004, 16:17
Here is a site for Edwards AFB. Of course you will notice that
the requirements are for engineers, however, you know as well as
I, that the engineers do not do the hands on, it is the ETs.

http://careers.edwards.af.mil/docs_html/current_openings/engineers/index.html

Since you are retired Air Force, you should be able to log onto
'most' of the fed gov's web sites, I am talking about the individual
sites which are controlled by the gov computors and log on requires
an access code. They can be granted, but you have to ask for
permission and await approval as some info is confidential.

Let's talk about your qualifications and the many times that you
have been passed over. You say that you have a 10-point vets
preference. That in itself should put you in the top three
selectees for any position. I am guessing, but I put you at
maybe 45 years old (+/-) 2 years. I will say this, reguardless
of the government's position on age discrimination is, they do
tend to look for younger bodies and pass over the 40+ group.

Hopefully you are aware of the challenge process when you are
overlooked for a position in which you apply and are not selected.
You may do so since you are a 10-pointer. The government has to
provide in writing to you as to why you were not chosen and it
had better be good cause for them to do so.

If you have been denied a position in the very short past, why
not give the above suggestion a whirl.

PM or email me if I may be of help. Don't give up, be persistant.

Ed

grampi
11-27-2004, 16:51
Ed Ely

I am aware of some type of challenge process, but I don't know anything about the process, How to go about requesting this info, who I need to submit it to, or exactly what info I'm entitled to.

I do know agencies can't legally pass me over because of my age (which BTW, you were right on the money, I'm 46). However, I'm guessing no agency would ever admit to passing someone over because of their age as it would be self incriminating. I'm guessing there's a lot of illegal stuff that goes on during the hiring process, and selecting officials have probably gotten pretty good at covering up their tracks. If there was a way for me to find out why I have been passed over all these times (or for even a portion of the times), there's a good chance a mistake on the part of one the selecting officials could be revealed that shows I was illegally passed over. In such a case, I would seek retrobution in the form of forcing the agency to hire me rather than some type of monetary settlement. I know, this would be considered going to work in an angry hornet's nest, but I'm sure the government has protection laws for employees going into this type of a situation. At least I hope they would.

Are you an ET and/or a federal employee?

Ed Ely
11-27-2004, 19:41
Check your PM.

Ed

FLIPPER 348
11-29-2004, 02:10
go civilian!

grampi
11-29-2004, 06:53
Originally posted by FLIPPER 348
go civilian!

I don't think so.

FLIPPER 348
11-30-2004, 00:10
It beats working for Uncle Sugar anyday.

grampi
11-30-2004, 06:56
How does constantly being laid off and no job security beat just the opposite? That's what I'm looking at in my trade.

FLIPPER 348
11-30-2004, 16:35
...........valid points but you are held back way too much when working for the Gov.

I went through two years of layoffs after I left the Army but all is well now 12 years later. I did a short gig with the Forest Service working on some aircraft and it was by far the worst expierence of my life. They were way worse that the laziest union dolts I worked with at Boeing. I make a bit less now but the working conditions are %100 bettter all around.

IMHO--If you seek job security too hard you will never take the risks it takes to reach your potential. I have taken some big risks but could not be happier with my future job situation now. Never again will I work for the Gov.

best of luck with your search

grampi
12-02-2004, 08:19
To each his own I guess. I just think with all the benefits and entitlements I have with the Gov because of my miltary time and my disability status, I'd be foolish not to try to get in. My disability would completely exempt me from being RIF'ed, and it would probably give me preference for lateral and interagency moves. Now if I can just figure out what it takes to get hired......

FLIPPER 348
12-02-2004, 09:06
What's your percentage?? I'm at %10 but since being an aircraft mechanic does not require me to run 6 or so miles on the job it's not a problem. You seem to be looking for the job security and all the benifits & entitlements of a gov job.............. but your real potential and earning power is in the private sector.

grampi
12-02-2004, 16:11
I'm 40%.

kaizoku
12-02-2004, 16:25
.

grampi
12-03-2004, 06:16
Originally posted by kaizoku
I just got hired on as a 2210 series (IT Specialist) GS-7 at Fort Leavenworth after 5 1/2 years as a Navy ET. It's hard to get hired on as a Gov't ET, but keep looking. If you want to send me your resume I might be able to offer some suggestions and tweaks that might help your efforts.

Check your PM.

kaizoku
12-03-2004, 11:35
Sent you a PM back

Lou Abbott
12-03-2004, 20:03
Grampi,
Good luck on you efforts. I was an AT in the Navy (same as an ET, but Aviation rating). I worked Civil Service for 34 years in various electronics classifications. Retired in 2002. Whooo Hoooo. You might look into a contractor support position. I did (after a year off)and age did not matter, experience did! Civil Service is not so good now days, especially for the long term. I worked my way up thru the management ranks and you are fighting an uphill battle with age against you. Nuff said. Hey, move to Maryland, Patuxent River and you have a GREAT chance of getting a contractor job. Send me your resume if you want to look into that.
Lots a luck anyway.

grampi
12-04-2004, 07:12
Originally posted by Lou Abbott
Grampi,
Good luck on you efforts. I was an AT in the Navy (same as an ET, but Aviation rating). I worked Civil Service for 34 years in various electronics classifications. Retired in 2002. Whooo Hoooo. You might look into a contractor support position. I did (after a year off)and age did not matter, experience did! Civil Service is not so good now days, especially for the long term. I worked my way up thru the management ranks and you are fighting an uphill battle with age against you. Nuff said. Hey, move to Maryland, Patuxent River and you have a GREAT chance of getting a contractor job. Send me your resume if you want to look into that.
Lots a luck anyway.

I wonder if hiring agencies were more apt to hire prior military applicants 20-30 years ago than they are today? Or maybe there are just a lot more displaced ET's these days than there were back then. I just visited our local National Weather Service office and the ET there who goes through the applications whenever they have a vacancy says he can't believe the qualifications some of the applicants have. I'm just curious as to why so many of these highly qualified individuals don't already have good paying jobs. I mean not all of these people can possibly be in the same situation I'm in.

I also am not quite understanding the age thing. I'm 46 years old, it isn't like I'm 60+ or anything. These days, 46 is considered mid-career. Because the cost of living is so high, and it becomes more an more difficult to set up that retirement nest egg, and because people are living longer lives, they're also working to an older age. Besides, though I'm probably near the upper end of the age group for military retirees, I know there are older people than I transitioning from the military into the civilian work force. My age really shouldn't be a factor.

I appreciate your offer to help, but I'm not really interested in non-gov jobs. In the ET world, these positions are just to volitile. I know people I used to work with who went this route and every one of them who has hired on with one of the military support contractors like Boeing, Grumman, Northrup, etc, had a great paying position, only to experience layoff after layoff, or they ended up being victums of downsizing. I just don't want to get into that rollercoaster act. I have a stable job right now (though not in the electronics career field), but it just doesn't pay as much as I could be making as an ET working for Uncle Sam.

Now, if you think you might be able to "tune up" my federal resume, I'd send it to you in a heart beat. Thanks for the info.

WIG19
12-09-2004, 14:37
Haven't read all of every post, but don't tie yourself to directly working civil service. MANY bases have had non-combat functions contracted out. Same location, same people, same function, but they're now managed & run by a contractor. A natural function of BRAC, etc. Nearly always one of the first functions to go is the logistics directorate, which often has purview of maintenance, including the CommElec shops. Find out what bases/posts have had some contracting out activity, who the contractors are, and send your resume to them.

Highly likely you'd get very preferential treatment because one of the immediate criteria a contractor has is to provide CLEARED personnel to fill the positions. With your experience a local agency check and interim granted by DISCO would likely come much faster than someone who's never filled out a DD-873. Best of luck.
Try here, for one:
http://jobsearch.griffinservices.newjobs.com/

Best of luck. ;?

grampi
12-09-2004, 16:55
I thought I had mentioned in an earlier post that I have had many of my friends go the contractor route, and every single one of them have been miserable because of it. In the ET trade, jobs with contractors are so volitile that there's absolutely no job security. You spend more time being laid off or getting caught up in some sort of company downsizing than you do working, and this isn't an exaggeration. The only employer I know of that can offer job security to an electronics tech is the federal gov.

WIG19
12-10-2004, 12:40
Sorry, I realize my typo in the previous post (corrected now); I hadn't read every post. Just trying to pass along another possible route. I suppose it depends on the locale; up here in the "northwoods" it's a pretty stable workforce. There's always a little turnover among the contractors, but the overall workforce age causes that anyway, contractor OR civil service. Best of luck.

grampi
12-10-2004, 18:19
Originally posted by WIG19
Sorry, I realize my typo in the previous post (corrected now); I hadn't read every post. Just trying to pass along another possible route. I suppose it depends on the locale; up here in the "northwoods" it's a pretty stable workforce. There's always a little turnover among the contractors, but the overall workforce age causes that anyway, contractor OR civil service. Best of luck.

That's quite all right. I appreciate any help I can get.

BinLurking
12-12-2004, 10:15
Originally posted by grampi
My disability would completely exempt me from being RIF'ed, and it would probably give me preference for lateral and interagency moves. Only true if your retirement is based solely on disability. Your retirement is based on completing 20+ years of active duty and not diability. You read the rules the way you want to read them and then rant here. You kinda sound "silly" because you don't really know the rules. I know the RIF rules, I am under the same category as you are!

grampi
12-12-2004, 14:59
Originally posted by BinLurking
Only true if your retirement is based solely on disability. Your retirement is based on completing 20+ years of active duty and not diability. You read the rules the way you want to read them and then rant here. You kinda sound "silly" because you don't really know the rules. I know the RIF rules, I am under the same category as you are!

I don't know what rules you're reading, but the ones I've seen say anyone with a 10% or higher disability rating can't be RIF'ed....period. It doesn't say anything about having to be separated from the armed services because of the disability, it just says if you have the disability.

BinLurking
12-12-2004, 16:48
Excerpt from the Vet Guide:

Eligibility for Veterans' Preference in RIF

Determinations of Veterans' preference eligibility are made in accordance with the information under Preference in Appointments in Chapter 2, except that a retired member of a uniformed service must meet an additional condition to be considered a preference eligible for RIF purposes. This condition differs depending on the rank at which the individual retired from the uniformed service. Uniformed service as defined in 5 United States Code (U.S.C.) 2101 means the Armed Forces, the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service, and the commissioned corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

Retirees below the rank of major (or equivalent) get preference if:

Retirement from the uniformed service is based on disability (READ: DISABILITY) that either resulted from injury or disease received in the line of duty as a direct result of armed conflict, or was caused by an instrumentality of war and was incurred in the line of duty during a period of war as defined in section 101(11) of title 38, U. S. C. "Period of war" includes World War II, the Korean conflict, Vietnam era, the Persian Gulf War, or the period beginning on the date of any future declaration of war by the Congress and ending on the date prescribed by Presidential proclamation or concurrent resolution of the Congress; or

The employee's retired pay from a uniformed service is not based on 20 or more years of full-time active service, regardless of when performed but not including periods of active duty for training; or
(YOURS (AND MINE) IS BASED ON 20 OR MORE YEARS OF FULL-TIME ACTIVE SERVICE)

The employee has been continuously employed in a position covered by the 5 U.S.C. chapter 35 since November 30, 1964, without a break in service of more than 30 days.
Retirees at or above the rank of major (or equivalent) get preference if they are disabled veterans as defined in 5 U.S.C. 2108(2) (includes XP, CP, and CPS) and also meet one of the criteria above for a person retired below the rank of major.
A preference eligible who at age 60 becomes eligible as a reservist for retired pay under 10 U.S.C. chapter 1223 (previously chapter 67) and who retires at or above the rank of major (or equivalent) is considered a preference eligible for RIF purposes at age 60 only if he or she is a disabled veteran as defined in 5 U.S.C. 2108(2) (includes categories XP, CP, and CPS). Receipt of retired pay under chapter 1223 meets the requirement that retired pay not be based on 20 or more years of full-time active service. Eligibility for retired reservist pay occurs at age 60; up to that time a reservist is not considered a retired member of a uniformed service and, if otherwise eligible, is a preference eligible for reduction in force purposes.

5 U.S.C. 3501, 3502; 5 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 351.501

Not sure what you were reading or who your "sea lawyer" is. BTW, I did this in the service, I was part of the transition team and I still keep in close contact with the VA folks. AND I AM DONE WITH THIS THREAD! ;?

grampi
12-12-2004, 19:36
I don't know where you got this info, but it looks official, and it's directly conflicting with the info I read earlier. I'm trying to find what I read before, and if I can find it, I'll post it. It talked about the different disability ratings and I specifically remember it saying disabled vets rated at 10% or more were exempt from RIF. I'll keep looking for it.

BinLurking
12-12-2004, 19:59
Originally posted by grampi
I don't know where you got this info, but it looks official, and it's directly conflicting with the info I read earlier.
Looks official? Nah, it's only the OPM! ;f Believe me, I know I am not exempt from RIF.
http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetguide.asp#3

Ed Ely
12-13-2004, 09:12
What is posted above from the OPM manual describes "most" situations concerning the vet. However, in this special case, the vet is a retiree and also a compensionaire. As the latter, he is a 10 pointer and would/could fall under the special considerations.

grampi - please go to the site mentioned in the above post and throughly screen the issue. You might also refer to a portion of the OPM site which governs your situation.

I might point out at this juncture, CFR (Code of Federal Regulations), USC (United States Code "codified'). I only mention this because the USC is the law, written from what congress makes, and the CFR is the agencies, such as the DVA, OPM, etc., interputation of that law and how they apply it. As you can see, there are also, internal regulations written into a handbook as such. Please do not get me wrong, most federal employees mean well and do their job, but there are a lot who do not, thus getting a deserving potential employee a shaft job.

Disclaimer: I offer this up for reference only. I am not a legal authority nor attorney-at-law.

Ed

TITLE 5--ADMINISTRATIVE PERSONNEL

CHAPTER I--OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT

PART 211--VETERAN PREFERENCE--Table of Contents

Sec. 211.102 Definitions.

For purposes of preference in Federal employment the following
definitions apply:
(a) Veteran means a person who was separated with an honorable
discharge or under honorable conditions from active duty in the armed
forces performed--
(1) In a war; or,
(2) In a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge has been
authorized; or
(3) During the period beginning April 28, 1952, and ending July 1,
1955; or,
(4) For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any
part of which occurred during the period beginning February 1, 1955, and
ending October 14, 1976.
(b) Disabled veteran means a person who was separated under
honorable conditions from active duty in the armed forces performed at
any time and who has established the present existence of a service-
connected disability or is receiving compensation, disability retirement
benefits, or pensions because of a public statute administered by the
Department of Veterans Affairs or a military department.
(c) Preference eligible means veterans, spouses, widows, or mothers
who meet the definition of ``preference eligible'' in 5 U.S.C. 2108.
Preference eligibles are entitled to have 5 or 10 points added to their
earned score on a civil service examination (see 5 U.S.C. 3309). They
are also accorded a higher retention standing in the event of a
reduction in force (see 5 U.S.C. 3502). Preference does not apply,
however, to inservice placement actions such as promotions.
(d) Armed forces means the United States Army, Navy, Air Force,
Marine Corps, and Coast Guard.
(e) Uniformed services means the armed forces, the commissioned
corps of the Public Health Service, and the commissioned corps of the
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
(f) Active duty or active military duty means full-time duty with
military pay and allowances in the armed forces, except for training or
for determining physical fitness and except for service in the Reserves
or National Guard.
(g) Separated under honorable conditions means either an honorable
or a general discharge from the armed forces. The Department of Defense
is responsible for administering and defining military discharges.

grampi
12-13-2004, 09:28
I appreciate the info. I don't think I'm going to concern myself too much at this point about anti-RIF entitlements. It's kind of putting the cart ahead of the horse. Being RIF'ed really isn't a concern if I can't get hired in the first place. What I need to focus on right now is getting that initial hire. If all other methods fail, I plan to approach this with the assistance of my very knowledgable DOL VETS rep. He will know exactly how to approach the situation, and whether or not I even have a case.

Ed Ely
12-13-2004, 10:40
Good idea. Question??? tho. What is "DOL VETS rep"?

Ed

grampi
12-13-2004, 11:11
Originally posted by Ed Ely
Good idea. Question??? tho. What is "DOL VETS rep"?

Ed

Not sure what the entire term for the acronym "VETS" stands for, but but he is the veteran's rep with the Department of Labor. He is very knowledgable about veteran's hiring preferences, entitlements for disabled vets, how to request info, how to file claims and so forth.