Kahr P45

[WERA49]

The January 2005 issue of Guns & Ammo reports that Kahr is making a P45. It is just a tad bigger than the PM40, just like the PM40 is a tad bigger than the PM9. It has a polymer frame, I don't know why it isn't called a PM45. Either way, that is very cool.

Even if it had been available when I bought my PM40, I would have still bought the .40. No caliber wars, please. I just like .40 S&W better.

I'd like to see what the all stainless version looks like (if there is one). Eventually, I think that Kahr would make one.

If you have that issue, it's on page 66.

[ewayte]

It will be interesting to see if the new P45 holds up to long term use or has the same teething problems as its polymer brethren.

I am surprised they didn't go with the 45GAP cartridge...

[TED]

Is it a a .45 ACP or a .45 GAP? I am also perplexed as to why they didn't offer a larger version first and then go smaller as they have in the past.

TED

[ProfMoriarty]

A 45 ACP cartridge has too slow of a burn time to make it a good cartridge for barrels as short as those found on the MK and PM series Kahrs.

Short barrelled firearms do well with rapid burn cartridges such as the 9mm with resultant minimal drop in velocity.

[kahrcarrier]

No all steel versions??

I am dissapointed......

[WERA49]

Is it a a .45 ACP or a .45 GAP?
I didn't notice. Very little information was given. I look again tomorrow and let you know.

It will be interesting to see if the new P45 holds up to long term use or has the same teething problems as its polymer brethren.
I think that it will be dependable. They've been making the polymer version for quite a while now. The .45 (either one) isn't any more powerful than a .40 S&W.

A 45 ACP cartridge has too slow of a burn time to make it a good cartridge for barrels as short as those found on the MK and PM series Kahrs.
I agree, however some people will carry a .45 or nothing at all. If a guy has several other .45's, it would make sense to buy a .45 carry gun.

Short barrelled firearms do well with rapid burn cartridges such as the 9mm with resultant minimal drop in velocity.
If the .45 has a light bullet (180 gr.), the powder can burn faster without overpressure. All is not completely lost by using a short barreled .45.

No all steel versions??
The article didn't mention that (IIRC). I'm assuming that Kahr has some interesting plans. I'd love to see an stainless version, but I like stainless guns in general.

Stay tuned.......... :)

Edited to add: I shouldn't call this an article. It was just a few sentences mentioned for the 2005 Handguns.

[TED]

Might be nice on their T or P sized frames. BTW, I was disapointed that when they did the TP series it was merely a T sized slide on a P sized frame. I actually wanted a longer grip. I got ovver it when I decide to look into having a mag well funnel made.

TED

[LGCubana]

K45 GAP covert. ;f

[auldpharght]

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_172_28/ai_n6204196

[chiz45]

Sweeet, showcased at '05 SHOT! i've never been to one, but got a ticket for this year. Do they allow pics?

[Mic]

I would buy a T sizeed 45. would be a great replacement for a Combat Commander. Great carry gun.

[mpholic]

Originally posted by WERA49
It is just a tad bigger than the PM40, just like the PM40 is a tad bigger than the PM9. It has a polymer frame, I don't know why it isn't called a PM45.



Actually it is more than just a tad bigger than the PM40. It is almost exactly the same size as the P40 and K40 which is why it was called the P45.

I am very anxiously awaiting the K45.

[Michigun]

Originally posted by ewayte
I am surprised they didn't go with the 45GAP cartridge...

Kahr started working on their new 45 before the 45 GAP was even on the drawing board. This new Kahr P45 is definitely chambered in 45 acp.

Check it out:

[CougarRed]

Thanks Michigun.

The P45 looks full sized. It should have a 3.5-3.7" barrel, which would be enough for adequate velocity.

If it were a PM size with a 3" barrel, I'd be worried.

[Michigun]

Originally posted by CougarRed
Thanks Michigun.

^c

[engineer151515]

Originally posted by Michigun
Kahr started working on their new 45 before the 45 GAP was even on the drawing board. This new Kahr P45 is definitely chambered in 45 acp.

Check it out:

Nice.

It will be good to compare with a G36

[stepper]

I'm getting excited! I may have to have one of these. I think I would wait at least 6-12 months after it comes out, to work out bugs. It looks very, very nice!

[JimmyD]

Originally posted by stepper
I think I would wait at least 6-12 months after it comes out, to work out bugs.

Exactamundo!

[Mixlesplick]

I will slap on my big stupid grin when I see a steel frame K45.;f

[cole]

Originally posted by Mixlesplick
I will slap on my big stupid grin when I see a steel frame K45.;f

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised to see a K45 anytime soon. As poly guns are the CCW choice for most, Kahr may hold off for some time before making that commitment to see how the P45 sells and holds up. This will be the first time I'm aware Kahr introduced a new line in P-Series before K-Series.

That being said, I'd have to give a K45 a hard look in comparison to the P45. I've been looking for a compact .45 to round out the herd.

Please keep pics and details coming as you get them. Thanks.

[FreeMe]

From the looks of the posted pic, I would say the P45 has "T" length slide. That would make the barrel a 4 incher, would it not? Anyway, I'm gonna wait and see if they bring out a steel-frame version. This is the gun I've been waiting for and lobbying for ever since they announced the "T" guns.

If you're like me, and you want to see a T45 in your hands (I'd even settle for a 4.5 incher), now might be the time to send the folks at Kahr a note. ^c

[FreeMe]

In further reading the caption on the photo, it appears that Cougar Red is right. It should have a 3.5-3.7" barrel. Good enough, but I want more.

[stiletto raggio]

It isn't a T size, it is a standard P frame. I can't wait until the Covert version comes out, which is the shortest barrel I'd want. Load that with Aguila 117s and you would have a hell of a carry gun.

I still can't wait to shoot my P9 covert...

[FreeMe]

My email to Kahr...



"Hey Frank,

I've had my K9 since you first came out with the electroless nickel version. I
love it, and I like the customer service I've had from your company.

My hope is that someday I can have a complete family of Kahr pistols in 9mm,
.45acp, and yes - .22lr (for practice). I almost bought a T9 recently, but I'm
still holding out for the .45acp pistol I asked you guys about a couple years
ago.

Now I hear a rumor that a P45 is in the works for next year. Great! But I
still like the steel-frame pistols best. Please consider my request for a
steel-framed "T45". One with a 4.5" barrel (and longer slide)
would be even nicer. Is this even a possibility, or should I settle for that
P45?

Thanks,
(FreeMe)
(a long-time Kahr fan)"

[compman]

a .45 double action. sweet! That will be for sure my primary carry piece. At that price range you could probably have anything. If it costs as much as a wilson combat, i,m taking the new wilson. Otherwise, it's perfect!

[mini14jac]

I'm glad to hear this, and see the pic.

As for larger versions, or steel framed guns...
In the past, when enough consumers have asked, Kahr has delivered.

Smaller guns, lighter guns, bigger calibers,.... a .45!
I bet you'll see more .45 guns in the near future.

This looks like a belt gun, and since I have a G36, I'm not sure it fills a niche for me, but I know a lot of people have been asking for this.

Unlike Ruger, and some other gun makers, Kahr seems genuinely interested in what the consumer wants.

[thumbs up] [\thumbs up]

[ColoradoPacker]

Originally posted by Michigun
Kahr started working on their new 45 before the 45 GAP was even on the drawing board. This new Kahr P45 is definitely chambered in 45 acp.

Check it out:

Looks like that will be my next pistol... Slimmer and lighter and smaller than the G36. Then my Kimber would have to become a range gun instead, or a safe queen.

[chiz45]

i went into the gunstore yesterday after reading this discussion, to check out among other things the G36. That thing is HUGE compared to what i thought it would be. I hope this P45 pans out.

[WERA49]

That thing is HUGE
I agree. I really like the feel, but was disappointed with the thickness. What is the advantage of single stack if it is a double stack width? I really wanted to buy one.

Kahr to the rescue....... :)

[mini14jac]

I agree. I really like the feel, but was disappointed with the thickness. What is the advantage of single stack if it is a double stack width?

The G36 is actually slightly slimmer than the other Glocks.
The number looks small on paper, but feels like a huge difference stuffed down your pants.

Many on GlockTalk complain about the recoil of the G36.
I don't find it objectionable myself.
They say it's worse than a G30.

That thing is HUGE compared to what i thought it would be.

You've got to remember, the .45 cartridge is HUGE.
I'm willing to bet the Kahr .45 wont' be as small as you think.
With the PM40, they almost made the gun too small to handle the cartridge. KelTec did that with the P40.
So, if the Kahr .45 is going to be successful, it's going to have to be big enough to shoot without causing pain.

It's physically impossible to make a .45 as small as a Seecamp.
;g ;a

[DocH]

Originally posted by Mixlesplick
I will slap on my big stupid grin when I see a steel frame K45.;f My sentiments exactly.

[chiz45]

Originally posted by mini14jac

You've got to remember, the .45 cartridge is HUGE.
I'm willing to bet the Kahr .45 wont' be as small as you think. [/B]

true. However, Kahr has two things going for it: slim construction of the grip frame (compared to most Glocks) and a metal only magazine. A Glock magwell must accomodated its plastic-wrapped mag.

We'll see how it goes. I gave up on a Kimber Compact CDP to go with the roughly-same-sized G19, for capacity reasons. I bought the PM9 to take the place of my P32. If i consider/buy the PM45, it seems like i'm running in circles ;f

[Catbird]

Based upon the P45's image posted by Michigun, it looks to be exactly the same size as my P40. Although the pic is a little fuzzy, the P45's muzzle end appears to be beveled; my P40's is NOT. Just personal opinion, but I wish Kahr would have gone the GAP direction.

http://glocktalk.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=3371257

Regarding the reliability of 3" barreled .45 ACPs, my totally stock Series I Kimber Ultra Carry has been ultra reliable in the past 5 years that I've owned it.

[ColoradoPacker]

I am glad it is in 45ACP, since GAP is kinda bastid child of Glock's...

I want to be able to find ammo anywhere, and share it with my other 45's

[WERA49]

The G36 is actually slightly slimmer than the other Glocks.
True. It is 0.05" thinner. That makes it 1.13" thick verses the Kahr PM40 at 0.94" thick.

[bcphoenix]

I got a reply from Heather in sales at Kahr and she said the P45 will be out around April 2005 and to look for an announcement from Kahr in January . She also said that there are no plans for an all steel version at this time.

BC

[SouthpawShootr]

They should have brought out an all stainless first. Seems to be hard for them to get the polymer series guns running right.

[mini14jac]

However, Kahr has two things going for it:

Actually, they've got 3 things going for them.
You forgot about the offset feed ramp. That will help with the slimness.

Based upon the P45's image posted by Michigun, it looks to be exactly the same size as my P40

I thought that too, but it's just not possible.
The P40 is built on a 9mm frame. Since the PM9 and K9 were built as small as possible, there's no room for a .45 in frame.
Now a Glock 19 is a over-built double stack, so it was possible to make a single stack .45 (the G36) that is practically the same size. (Though with a deeper grip.)

It will be interesting to see what size the final product is.

[sascrotch]

from what i've read, the grip is barely an inch wide. sounds like they tried their best to keep it as close to the p9/p40 size as possible.

[duncan]

Originally posted by ProfMoriarty
A 45 ACP cartridge has too slow of a burn time to make it a good cartridge for barrels as short as those found on the MK and PM series Kahrs.

Short barrelled firearms do well with rapid burn cartridges such as the 9mm with resultant minimal drop in velocity.

Better look over at the 1911 forum or 1911forum.com

The Detonics pocket 1911s (I know right) have very short barrels.

Just have the find ammo that expands quickly at a slower 700-850 fps.

I know I'm interested in a thinner 45 acp gun as long as it's smaller than a G36.

Otherwise, I think only Kahr die hards will buy it.

[mini14jac]

A 45 ACP cartridge has too slow of a burn time to make it a good cartridge for barrels as short as those found on the MK and PM series Kahrs.

I worried about this when I got my G36.
After a little research, I quit worrying. ;e
A quick web search shows that the Glock 36 with it's short barrel gets comparable velocity to most full-size 1911s, when shooting the same bullet.
I was pleasantly surprised.
I guess it's because of the octagon barrel?

Now, the G36 has a longer barrel than my PM9, and I think Kahrs have standard rifling.
So, fast, light bullets will be needed for proper expansion.

I'm sure Moon and Co. have taken this into consideration.
I think they are pretty good at making self-defense guns.;a

[Michigun]

Originally posted by mini14jac
... I think Kahrs have standard rifling.

Check out the barrel specs section: ^c

http://www.kahr.com/pistols_KP9093.html

[engineer151515]

http://img145.exs.cx/img145/9118/kahrp457cp.jpg



Is it here yet?

Is it here yet?

Is it here yet?

Is it here yet?


:)

[Rusty Phillips]

well, the comparison between the P45 and the G36 will definitely be very interesting.

both are 6+1 guns, but it looks like the 36 is a wee bit shorter from top of the slide to the bottom of the floorplate,

and if the grip of the P45 is one inch thick, I wonder what the width of the thing is gonna be at the slide release lever.... at its widest point it might actually be wider than the G36 (not enough to matter)






as I see it - from that writeup, the big difference is in total weight (20 oz vs 17) and in slide (& barrel) length (6.77" vs 6.1")

and I should mention that the grip looks a lot more comfy than the blocky one on the 36



we'll have to see how well it shoots

[Catbird]

I presume that the Kahr's thinner grip (as compared to the Glock) is one of the benefits of having a metal magazine.

[compman]

They will not be comparable guns. Remember what I told you guys, the gun does not look like the picture . The design has changed since then. The feeling of the two are different, mag capacity?, it's not suppose to be a service gun Glock. The key is balance, too. I promise the P45 will shoot like no other. Smooth as butter. Not a sharp or pointy edge on the gun. Almost like its had a melt.

Don't forget about the T9. Yes heavier, but solid and than the best shooting gun I have shot. Another masterpiece. You can buy it in a .40 with a nice pair of wooden grips and you have yourself a keeper. I am the kind of guy who likes to have things that no one else has and not to be common with my purchases. Everyone has a Glock, You won't see many of the larger Kahrs and you have a well kept secret. A gun that if it people caught on could easily sell for $900-$1100. Those 4 ouces feel like a bigger difference than they actually are but that has to do with balancing and how well & easy it is to carry. I , personally have never been able to carry a Glock comfortably on my body type. Finding Kahr for me has turned into a very decent collection of guns that still very few have caught on about. What I do know is that law enforcement has caught on to thier whole lineup. The Pm's for BUG's and T40's for service pistols.M ore and more PD's have opened the door to letting the officer choosing their primary and BUgs guns. The mandatory Glock days are disapearing and I am not saying Glocks are disappearing since many officers prefer them anyhow.

[Rusty Phillips]

Originally posted by compman
The will not be comparable guns. Remember what I told you guys, the gun does not look like the picture . The design has changed since then. The feeling of the two are different, mag capacity?, it's not suppose to be a service gun Glock. The key is balance, too. I promise the P45 will shoot like no other. Smooth as butter. Not a sharp or pointy edge on the gun. Almost like its had a melt.



no matter what - more small 45's on the market is a good thing.

G30, G36, G38, G39, Sig 245, Ruger, Taurus, Kahr P45... its all good

[thalo]

OK, brother compman, you convinced me. If they come out with a T45, I'd get that too... while waiting for the K45.

But I'd still want them in blackened stainless.

Right now my favorite DA .45 is the Beretta Cougar. I know I'd like the Kahr better, if it was going to be inspired by the K/T9/40.

[bstroud]

I'm hoping and praying the big gun magazines will have a review.

[patman]

If they ever make an all steel version I'll buy one.If not,I'll just keep carrying my K40.Looks pretty cool though.

[stepper]

I wonder what kind of price tag these are going to have? You can buy a new PM9 for $518 here. I bet they're in the $600 range easy.

[thalo]

That gun so needs to be black. Black is slimming. I don't want this to be the fat chick of firearms.

[stepper]

You may have to wait for black.

How long was it for the PM9 to come out with black? I think it was at least a year.