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ToBePD
12-04-2004, 14:00
I plan on going hunting next year and I will purchase my first rifle around May. Just wondering what is a good rifle? What would you all recommened? Price range is $200-$400. I wan't something that will hopefully put it down right away if the shot placement is right.I don't want a shotgun from the start, i just want a rifle to hunt with. I am 19 years old, just to let you know.

lomfs24
12-04-2004, 17:35
What will you be hunting? Deer I presume. I would look at something between a .243 and a 30-06. I tend to stay on the lighter side of things. I have successfully taken deer with as little as a .223 or a .17 Rem. However, that is not generally accepted as "good hunting" even though I have never lost a deer or had one suffer.

A .243 is certainly enough. But if you are planning on shooting anything larger like an elk you might want to look more at a 30-06. If you are planning on doing a lot of long range shooting while hunting take a look at a 25-06 or .270.

I would not get a magnum gun for my first. You don't really need them anyway. Unless you are shooting something large like an elk or moose.

I tend to stay with common cartridges simply due to ammo selection. .243, 25-06, .270, 30-06 or .308. I have also heard good things about a 7mm-08 but I have never been around or or shot one.

As far as brand, I would have no problem carrying or shooting a Savage. Although, the price on them is starting to creap up around the same price as a Rem or Winchester. I have heard great things about the Savage Accu-trigger. I would have to shoot one first.

Hope that helps.

ToBePD
12-04-2004, 21:28
Sorry I forgot to mention that, yes I will be hunting deer. Only bucks, I personally would feel incredible remorse if I shot a Doe or Fawn.

I want a gun that will undoubtfully put the animal down within a few hundred feet with a proper shot placement. So a .270 sounds about right then or should I go with the 30-06? Recoil should be not a large issue seeing that it will be a gun that is only used for a few months each year.

Sixgun_Symphony
12-04-2004, 22:38
.30-30 Winchester = deer rifle.

protozo1
12-04-2004, 22:43
I would go with the .30-06 it is a great round very cheap and very available and there are tons of different weights around. If it's your first rifle I'd recomend a bolt action. For the money you mentioned I'd look for a used Remington 700, Browning A-bolt, or Savage, or Winchester. My first choise would be the Browning but they usually cost more even used. The best thing is to go to a gunshop with lots of used guns and put them to your shoulder and work the safeties, pick the one you can afford that fits the best and works the smoothest. If the one you like is outside your budget then put it on layaway and pay over time. If you pick something that is really lightweight it will carry nice in the woods but kick harder than a heavier rifle. If you're shooting at a deer you won't feel the recoil but at the range it might bother you. .30-06, .270, and .308 are all fairly similar, will all preform very well on deer and black bear, and the ammo is cheap. Good luck, TAKE YOUR TIME and talk to a lot of people so when you do buy one you'll get the right one for you.

ToBePD
12-04-2004, 22:51
Originally posted by protozo1
I would go with the .30-06 it is a great round very cheap and very available and there are tons of different weights around. If it's your first rifle I'd recomend a bolt action. For the money you mentioned I'd look for a used Remington 700, Browning A-bolt, or Savage, or Winchester. My first choise would be the Browning but they usually cost more even used. The best thing is to go to a gunshop with lots of used guns and put them to your shoulder and work the safeties, pick the one you can afford that fits the best and works the smoothest. If the one you like is outside your budget then put it on layaway and pay over time. If you pick something that is really lightweight it will carry nice in the woods but kick harder than a heavier rifle. If you're shooting at a deer you won't feel the recoil but at the range it might bother you. .30-06, .270, and .308 are all fairly similar, will all preform very well on deer and black bear, and the ammo is cheap. Good luck, TAKE YOUR TIME and talk to a lot of people so when you do buy one you'll get the right one for you.

Thanks for the wise words. I don't plan on buying until at least income taxes come back. I also could go with a used rifle seeing the frequency I will be using it. Yes, Bolt action sounds the best to me also(I love that sound, it sounds almost as nice as a pump action shotgun).

RMTactical
12-05-2004, 00:32
Originally posted by Sixgun_Symphony
.30-30 Winchester = deer rifle.

Yeah, good suggestion.

blacknet
12-05-2004, 01:08
Hello,

Simple one word.

M1

Ed

lonewolf28152
12-05-2004, 01:32
I have three. A 7mm Rem mag, 300 Wby mag, and a 260 Remington. The 260 or 7mm-08 would be a good first gun. ;c

lomfs24
12-05-2004, 01:35
Originally posted by ToBePD
Sorry I forgot to mention that, yes I will be hunting deer. Only bucks, I personally would feel incredible remorse if I shot a Doe or Fawn.

I want a gun that will undoubtfully put the animal down within a few hundred feet with a proper shot placement. So a .270 sounds about right then or should I go with the 30-06? Recoil should be not a large issue seeing that it will be a gun that is only used for a few months each year.

I would feel sorry if I shot a fawn. However, shooting a doe, to me, is a necessary evil. Shooting a buck does nothing for population control. Shooting does will reduce deer numbers. I realize that in many parts of the country you don't actually want to reduce population. However, here, it is a concern for healthy herds.

I would take a 25-06 over a .270 but that is just my pref. 30-06 is good as well as .308. You can get cheap range ammo so you can practice a little more too. Practice makes for good shots. :)

Also, if you are going to buy a brand new gun talk to a local gunsmith, not your sports shop, and ask him how to properly break in a barrel to get the best groups.

Craigster
12-05-2004, 05:14
Originally posted by ToBePD
and I will purchase my first rifle around May.

This may not be what you want to hear but I recommend a bolt action 22 long rifle and 10,000 rounds.

Practice..............play...............then ask.

TexAg
12-05-2004, 19:51
Like Lomfs24 said, a fawn you should not shoot, but there is no reason to feel remorse for shooting a doe. In most areas doe should be shot now and again (sometimes more should be shot than bucks) for population control and they offer great meat as well. Why would you feel remorse for a doe and not a buck? An adult deer is an adult deer and you are killing it, male or female.

ToBePD
12-05-2004, 20:54
Originally posted by TexAg
Like Lomfs24 said, a fawn you should not shoot, but there is no reason to feel remorse for shooting a doe. In most areas doe should be shot now and again (sometimes more should be shot than bucks) for population control and they offer great meat as well. Why would you feel remorse for a doe and not a buck? An adult deer is an adult deer and you are killing it, male or female.

All the male does is just populate by having sex as much as he can (then again the doe trys to recieve as much sex as she can to). I don't know if the population is high around where I live, if so then maybe I will, maybe I won't.

TBO
12-05-2004, 21:06
One of the finest white-tail deer rounds available. The 7mm-08 has it all. I currently hunt with a 30-06 and have been more than pleased with it. I still recommend a 7mm-08 for a deer gun to anyone who asks. It has moderate recoil and a nice flat trajectory. You can take game cleanly out to 300 yards. We've had 3-4 guns in this caliber in my deer camp and all have performed well (both at the bench, and more importantly, in the field).

TBO

ToBePD
12-05-2004, 21:11
Originally posted by Craigster
This may not be what you want to hear but I recommend a bolt action 22 long rifle and 10,000 rounds.

Practice..............play...............then ask.

The only problem with that is that I want to spend as little money as possible and buying two guns is not cheaper. I can deal with the recoil for my first gun if it means saving $200.00. But yes a bolt action and long barrel sounds nice, but I want power also. Lots of power.

modgun
12-05-2004, 22:26
In reply to the suggestion to get a 22 first, at first, I was gonna say, "he didnt say he is going shooting for the first time, just buying his first rifle, maybe he has shot for years and just wants his own gun now."

Then I read that last post in reply to the suggestion about getting a 22lr as your first and realized that might be a good idea. You see, and this is all assumption based only on this thread, he said to get,

"a bolt action 22 long rifle"
and you said,
"a bolt action and long barrel sounds nice, but..."

Maybe it was a mistake but you alluded to the fact that you dont know what "22 long rifle" is, when you refer to it as a measurement of the barrels actual length. 22lr is a specific type of .22 round, it does not mean the gun has a long barrel.

If this is the case, then, no offense-we all started somewhere, you DO need to get a 22 and 5-10k rounds and practice.

Otherwise 30-30, 30-06 and 7mm are all good, Id personally go with sixgun who said 30-30.
But I grew up hunting moose and large bear, so I dont know quite as much about little things like deer!

ToBePD
12-05-2004, 22:41
No. I was stating that I like a long barrel (because I plan on doing far distance shooting and that will keep accuracy closer) and I like the manual slide of the bolt action. Yes this will be my first rifle. Yes I have shot before, just never payed attention much about the specifications on the gun was.

muddydog
12-06-2004, 01:38
stop that buck only BS.....

there is NOTHING...wrong with taking a doe..or a yearling and actually..i would seriously look at taking yearlings..up there where you are.

the winter is a ***** on a yearling..

nothing better eating than a young deer.
remember..
"hunters in the know...take a doe"...LoL. the ODWC's ad for doe killing.


why are you looking at distance shooting..
just curious..
whitetails are sport for getting close..thats where the fun is.

personally i think all newbies should have to start with either model 336's or M-94's with open sights..

that way they learn..properly before all the gadgetry comes into play.

modgun
12-06-2004, 03:51
.22

onemilmhz
12-06-2004, 08:22
Originally posted by ToBePD
I personally would feel incredible remorse if I shot a Doe...
Not to hijack the thread or anything, I know others have already mentioned this but I think as a new(er) hunter you should understand the dynamics of buck-doe ratio. Here in Georgia a hunter can take eight doe and two bucks per season. That's because the deer herd here is a little over populated. Researchers estimate that the states eco-system can effectively handle a herd of approximately 800,000 while we currently have around 1.3 million. Do the math. If Georgia hunters don't start taking more does the herd could be in jeapordy of disease and malnutrition. Georgians are already feeling the effects of a record number of deer-vehicle collisions in recent years. Anyone who has driven the interstates here can attest to that. I even saw a doe crossing a busy road in downtown Macon (a city of around 100,000) the other morning. I know everyone wants to shoot old "mossy horns" on opening day but believe me, by hunting doe you're doing your part to maintain the herd in your area.

Now, to answer your actual question ;f
Originally posted by TheeBadOne
The 7mm-08 has it all.

ithaca_deerslayer
12-06-2004, 11:42
Originally posted by ToBePD
Sorry I forgot to mention that, yes I will be hunting deer. Only bucks, I personally would feel incredible remorse if I shot a Doe or Fawn.

I want a gun that will undoubtfully put the animal down within a few hundred feet with a proper shot placement. So a .270 sounds about right then or should I go with the 30-06? Recoil should be not a large issue seeing that it will be a gun that is only used for a few months each year.

Proper shot placement? Might mean different things to different people. To me, it means an 8" circle, broadside, roughly centered around the heart (or a little higher and away from the elbow).

The first key to hitting that region is your own shooting ability. If we are talking off-hand shots, most of us will honestly be shooting around 150 yards or less.

Now, what round will "undoubtfully" drop and kill a deer at 150 yards? That's a long list. Here are just a few:
12 guage slug
.243
7mm-08
7mm mauser
7mm mag
.270
.308
.30-06
.300 win mag
.30-30
.444 marlin
.45-70 govt.

My favorite is the .30-06.

ToBePD
12-06-2004, 12:08
I guess when you all put it that way, shooting a doe is not a bad thing. As stated I have never went hunting and seriously this is one of my first conversations about hunting, so the buck only shooting was just a preference of mine. I guess when the season comes around I will be going for buck and doe (regardless I will not shoot a fawn, that is just my stance, I would rather them get older and bigger so when someone shoots them they get more out of it). I hear alot about the 30-06, when I have time I will go down to a local gunsmith and try one on for size.

ithaca_deerslayer
12-06-2004, 13:40
Originally posted by ToBePD
I hear alot about the 30-06, when I have time I will go down to a local gunsmith and try one on for size.

The kick of a .30-06 is somewhat similar to a 12 gauge. Some guys say it doesn't have any kick at all, because they shoot larger calibers that have even more kick. But some guys think the .30-06 has too much kick.

Guess I'm just saying, don't be surprised when you fire one. And if you sit down at a bench, you might really notice it. If you stand up, you might not notice it much at all.

Yadda yadda, the specific rifle, the way you hold it, all factor into perceived kick. Nonetheless, it kicks some.

onemilmhz
12-06-2004, 14:28
Originally posted by ithaca_deerslayer
The kick of a .30-06 is somewhat similar to a 12 gauge. Some guys say it doesn't have any kick at all, because they shoot larger calibers that have even more kick. But some guys think the .30-06 has too much kick.

Guess I'm just saying, don't be surprised when you fire one. And if you sit down at a bench, you might really notice it. If you stand up, you might not notice it much at all.

Yadda yadda, the specific rifle, the way you hold it, all factor into perceived kick. Nonetheless, it kicks some.
So the .30-06 kicks some, or no? ;g ;f

ILikeFtLbs
12-06-2004, 16:55
It doesn't kick enough to bother you, especially if you're aiming in on a deer. Take a look at the 6.5x55 Swede. It's a really good deer caliber and you can get lots of different barrel lengths from 20-29 inches. Also, since it is a military round like the .30-06, .308, 7mm mauser, .223 etc., you can get practice ammo cheap.

One side note; I don't know what the caliber rules are for Michigan, but I'd look at them closely. The .243 for example is not legal in West Virginia. I think many parts of Michigan are shotgun only. If that is the case, I would look at a fully rifled shotgun. Perhaps a savage bolt action 12 gauge and a scope?

ToBePD
12-06-2004, 19:20
I have been doing some reading up on hunting laws and heck there sure is alot of them. I need to talk to some of my uncles or someone about the times I can hunt, with what weapon at what times, what caliber I can shoot, what I can shoot when (antlerless, etc..). There is alot to know about hunting before you can actually go hunt.

Castigliano
12-06-2004, 19:59
I am certainly glad no one said "SKS" yet and I am not recomending it! I tell the guys that come and hunt behind the family farm they are "hunting american deer on american soil bought by a man who served in the Korean war (my father) so leave those red army weapons at the gate.". Of course this is just bull big talk, but I notice most of them have moved away from SKS's for deer hunting and leave them for plinking. They do work, but it is marginal and I would hate for you to buy one to save cash.
For a first gun on a budget, Savage bolt (due to price & reputation) is a good starting point and I prefer 308 or 3006 because they offer range and size to pursue other game. 30-30 's can be found for reasonable if they match the territory. Cheap practice with a 22 is worth the price too.

Also, don't be afraid to take does. The DNR's want you to take them for a reason and it lets a small grow bigger for the day you can take him.

good luck.
c

lomfs24
12-06-2004, 21:24
I agree with the SKS comments. Buy one to go make noise if you must but don't expect it to be a formidable hunting weapon.

Or if you just want to make noise you can get a Mini14 and at least shoot american ammo too. :)

blacknet
12-06-2004, 21:42
Hello,

OK I have to say something here.

Based on MY experience many people have trouble with the 27's recoil, you have to learn to hold it correctly then the recoil will be gone. Many people do not give the gun credit for being a conceal weapon, for this function it's a mightly fine machine.

Today at the range we worked on double tap drills behind cover. I was using standard black sil's, at 20 yards all of my shots were in the 9 zone. Not a bad performance for a small frame, a large caliber and shooting behind cover.

I've had mine 7/2001 and there's no way I would get rid of her.

Ed

Castigliano
12-07-2004, 19:39
I just remembered a good blog to go look at for hunting and rifle information. www.chuckhawks.com (or something close to it). There are soo many choices out there that it pays to get informed and watch for buys that will fit the bill.
I am a bad person since I keep a little money stashed for when you find those guys that need to sell a rifle for tax money, christmas gifts, girlfriend gifts, etc.. The way I look at it.. you are doing them a favor over compared to what the pawn shop pays!
c

engineer151515
12-07-2004, 19:43
Originally posted by Sixgun_Symphony
.30-30 Winchester = deer rifle.

Good Advise. Although I would do a Marlin. Easier to mount a scope.

muddydog
12-07-2004, 19:54
the new winchester's have angle ejection and use normal scope bases and rings..

no issues..there..

Sixgun_Symphony
12-07-2004, 20:47
I would not mount a scope onto a Winchester .30-30 because you will lose too much of the good balance and fast handling qualities when you do.

Best to go with Marbles peep sights.

muddydog
12-07-2004, 23:58
your very correct about not scoping a M94..

the reason why the gun is a classic is due to its balance and fit.

i have an AO tritium bead on the front and i replaced the crappy rear sight with a williams open sight. the sight picture is a beautiful thing..clear..precise..with good peripheral viewing.

why companies put crappy sights on rifles is beyond me.


i have shot hundreds of rifles in my life..

but there is not a better handling rifle for shots under 100 yards than a M-94. compact, reliable and plenty accurate.

MarkCO
12-08-2004, 10:28
7mm-08 would be my suggestion as well.

HuntingGuy
12-15-2004, 12:15
Recoil should be not a large issue seeing that it will be a gun that is only used for a few months each year.

An observation I have seen at the shooting range this year in particular is not many people shooting in the off-season, but the weekend before deer season is when they take the first shot of the year with that out-of-the-box rifle they just purchased. DON'T MAKE THIS MISTAKE! The more practice, the more comfortable you will feel in the field. Try different loads and find one that gives you the accuracy and penentration you want. Once you find that load, shoot THAT LOAD in the following months up to deer season with the rifle! Get her sighted in and shoot, shoot, shoot.

Best of luck to you on your venture, and welcome to a great sport! ;a ;b

ToBePD
12-15-2004, 21:44
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
An observation I have seen at the shooting range this year in particular is not many people shooting in the off-season, but the weekend before deer season is when they take the first shot of the year with that out-of-the-box rifle they just purchased. DON'T MAKE THIS MISTAKE! The more practice, the more comfortable you will feel in the field. Try different loads and find one that gives you the accuracy and penentration you want. Once you find that load, shoot THAT LOAD in the following months up to deer season with the rifle! Get her sighted in and shoot, shoot, shoot.

Best of luck to you on your venture, and welcome to a great sport! ;a ;b

I plan on shooting the shotgun or rifle everytime I shoot my handgun. Which is 2 or 3 times a week (I didn't think I was going to like shooting as much as I do, so I retracked my previous statement and substitute this one). I still don't know what type of gun I will get, there is too many to choose from. Also I don't know if I wan't a shotgun or rifle, now that I am thinking about it I believe a shotgun is better for where I live (atleast in my area of the state, I live in the shotgun only area).

DocHolliday
12-15-2004, 21:45
First be sure the caliber is legal. Your best bet would proably be to pickup a Enfield or a Mosin-Nagant 91-30 for under $100. Do not try to take a deer with anything less than a .270. A lot of experiences have soured me on the .243. After all Remington made it as a heavy varmint caliber, not a deer round.

ToBePD
12-15-2004, 21:47
Originally posted by DocHolliday
First be sure the caliber is legal. Your best bet would proably be to pickup a Enfield or a Mosin-Nagant 91-30 for under $100. Do not try to take a deer with anything less than a .270. A lot of experiences have soured me on the .243. After all Remington made it as a heavy varmint caliber, not a deer round.

I am a firm believer that if I am to get a gun I wan't it to be good from the start. I don't want to spend $100 on a gun so I can go spend another $500 on the real one. Thanks for the advice though.

blacknet
12-15-2004, 21:47
Originally posted by DocHolliday
First be sure the caliber is legal.

ER? legal caliber?

Ed

DocHolliday
12-16-2004, 21:36
Well, it's not like it is a throwaway gun. They are true workhorses. It's all I have ever hunted with, and it has never let me down. Any day I would taking an Enfield into the wet woods rather than a 700 dollar rifle.

ToBePD
12-16-2004, 21:40
Originally posted by DocHolliday
Well, it's not like it is a throwaway gun. They are true workhorses. It's all I have ever hunted with, and it has never let me down. Any day I would taking an Enfield into the wet woods rather than a 700 dollar rifle.

Ohhh. I thought you were trying to tell me to buy a enfield just so I could get the feel of a long gun then decide on the hunting gun. I misunderstood you.

HuntingGuy
12-16-2004, 21:43
Any day I would taking an Enfield into the wet woods rather than a 700 dollar rifle.

Don't exactly understand what you are implying with the 700 dollar rifle statement?

DocHolliday
12-16-2004, 21:44
They make excellent starter guns. Get one and get the feel for one, before you go and spend a lot of money. (Resale values aren't that good, you pay 600 for one but if you trade, you could only get about 325, depending) You can scope a Enfield with no-problem.

HuntingGuy
12-16-2004, 21:47
They make excellent starter guns. Get one and get the feel for one, before you go and spend a lot of money. (Resale values aren't that good, you pay 600 for one but if you trade, you could only get about 325, depending) You can scope a Enfield with no-problem.

Don't think I would want any part of a rifle that the value of the gun once purchased decreases by 50%.. Why not buy a remington, savage, weatherby, or something along that line that can hold it's worth and still be a well built, accurate gun.

DocHolliday
12-16-2004, 21:51
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
Don't exactly understand what you are implying with the 700 dollar rifle statement?

Well, some people like to get the biggest, most elaborate rifles, and then don't take care of them. If you lose a Enfield, you lose 100 bucks tops, a 700 rifle, you lose 700. With surplus rifles you know that it will only take 100 tops to fix or completely replace it.

HuntingGuy
12-16-2004, 21:56
Doc-

Maybe I misunderstood.. Is the enfield 600.00 or 100.00? ;Q

some people like to get the biggest, most elaborate rifles, and then don't take care of them.

Point taken, but taking care of to some is making it a safe queen.. To me, it is wiping it down after a good day of huntin'.. I am not going to 'not' take my 700.00 tikka into the woods because it is snowing or raining ;)

DocHolliday
12-16-2004, 23:01
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
Doc-

Maybe I misunderstood.. Is the enfield 600.00 or 100.00? ;Q



Point taken, but taking care of to some is making it a safe queen.. To me, it is wiping it down after a good day of huntin'.. I am not going to 'not' take my 700.00 tikka into the woods because it is snowing or raining ;)

The Enfields can be had for as low as 80.00. I love em. Just knowing that you hold a piece of such history. Now I know that a gun will get wear on it, but I like to take care of them the best I can. I just hate the people who come into deer camp with a 600-700 rifle and rub it in your faces and then don't take care of it. It's different because some rifles were designed for that, and some clearly aren't. That is when I put on a polymer stock instead of wood.

MrMurphy
12-16-2004, 23:50
Get a Savage 110 package gun. Comes ready to go even with a scope. In .308 or .30-06 or .270 it'll do the job.


However, you don't shoot a hunting rifle 2 or 3 times a week (priced .270 ammo lately?). What you do is put a box through it maybe once every two or three months. You save a little cash, and get yourself a bolt .22 like a Marlin 25N or 925, with a similar-powered cheaper scope, and use THAT for practice since .22 LR is like $8 per 500, and a .22 is a good accuracy and trigger pull trainer without the cost, blast or recoil.

My 25N was like $180 and well worth it.

TexAg
12-17-2004, 13:24
Originally posted by DocHolliday
First be sure the caliber is legal. Your best bet would proably be to pickup a Enfield or a Mosin-Nagant 91-30 for under $100. Do not try to take a deer with anything less than a .270. A lot of experiences have soured me on the .243. After all Remington made it as a heavy varmint caliber, not a deer round.

The .243 and 6mm are fine deer rounds, perfect in my opinion. I have never seen a deer get away from either caliber and have seen deer run farther when shot with a .30-06 than with a 6mm (which of coure isnt to say the '06 isnt good, it is, but .243 and 6mm are fine too). My brother and I both shot our deer this year with 6mm and both bullets exited and both deer dropped within 30-40 yards. 90% of the deer I have shot with my 6 have dropped dead right there, the other 10% have gone down within 30 yards. My brother-in-law shot his buck with his .243 this year and it dropped dead right there. My nephew shot his first buck this year with a .22-250 and his dropped dead right there.

Its all about shot placement and hitting where you aim. Practice.
By the way, in Texes any centerfire cartridge is legal.

DocHolliday
12-17-2004, 14:58
Originally posted by TexAg
The .243 and 6mm are fine deer rounds, perfect in my opinion. I have never seen a deer get away from either caliber and have seen deer run farther when shot with a .30-06 than with a 6mm (which of coure isnt to say the '06 isnt good, it is, but .243 and 6mm are fine too). My brother and I both shot our deer this year with 6mm and both bullets exited and both deer dropped within 30-40 yards. 90% of the deer I have shot with my 6 have dropped dead right there, the other 10% have gone down within 30 yards. My brother-in-law shot his buck with his .243 this year and it dropped dead right there. My nephew shot his first buck this year with a .22-250 and his dropped dead right there.

Its all about shot placement and hitting where you aim. Practice.
By the way, in Texes any centerfire cartridge is legal.

In Virginia, cartridges must be of at least .23. I'm not saying they are bad, but in Virginia, most of where we hunt is heavily wooded. (It can get really realy thick woods) I like cartridges that are heavy hitting. Now, that's different in Texas since it's really long range sometimes. But I will admit I don't care for the .22-250. In Virginia our bear and deer season overlap with each other. So I like to carry a .30-06 or a .303. Black bears can get dangerous too, especially if they feel trapped.

In case you didn't notice I'm an Elmer Keith believer.

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 20:14
Are all of these cartridges and loads you guys are talking about for rifles or shotguns? New to the long-gun thins still so I don't know all of the calibers.

HuntingGuy
12-17-2004, 20:17
To-

The cartridges we are referring to in this thread are rifle calibers. :) ;)

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 20:50
Thanks. I still am confused as to what I should get FIRST. Rifle or shotgun? Either way I will get the other one eventually.

HuntingGuy
12-17-2004, 20:59
Up to you, really.. What do YOU want? Don't think you will find anyone to tell you get one or the other.. If you want a shotgun, buy a shotgun. If you want a rifle, buy a rifle. It's your money and your big decision ;) If I were you, I would shoot both a good rifle and shotgun before you do make this decision. That will probably be the deciding factor for you. I'm a rifle guy myself but it doesn't mean I don't own shotguns. Not a bad thing to shoot and have both ;a Best of luck to you, keep us updated! ;c

Sixgun_Symphony
12-17-2004, 21:03
Originally posted by ToBePD
Thanks. I still am confused as to what I should get FIRST. Rifle or shotgun? Either way I will get the other one eventually.

Consider getting the Savage Model 24 combination gun. Over/Under rifle & shotgun barrels.

Savage M24F-12 (http://www.savagearms.com/24f12.htm)

DocHolliday
12-17-2004, 21:04
Definately a rifle first.




Here are some good enfield photos.

http://www.pointmanspage.com/gallery/Enfields

Doc

HuntingGuy
12-17-2004, 21:10
A rifle is going to give you the accuracy you want, when you refer to shotgun I am assuming you are talking about shooting slugs through it. I think you will find a rifle more enjoyable to shoot to be honest and the velocity of a rifle bullet is obviously alot higher than a shotgun slug. With most any decent rifle you should expect fair grouping (1-2") at 100 yards out of the box. My first rifle I purchased was a Remington Model Seven .260... Something in the 260-270 range would suit you well for deer hunting, if you plan on hunting for larger game such as Elk, Moose, Bear I would recommend something around the 30-06, 308.. Either would work just fine.

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 21:21
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
Up to you, really.. What do YOU want? Don't think you will find anyone to tell you get one or the other.. If you want a shotgun, buy a shotgun. If you want a rifle, buy a rifle. It's your money and your big decision ;) If I were you, I would shoot both a good rifle and shotgun before you do make this decision. That will probably be the deciding factor for you. I'm a rifle guy myself but it doesn't mean I don't own shotguns. Not a bad thing to shoot and have both ;a Best of luck to you, keep us updated! ;c

Thanks. Next time I go to my range I will see if they have a shotgun and a rifle that I could shoot. It's not a big place though so I might have to relly on the other guys there to let me try theres if they allow.

HuntingGuy
12-17-2004, 21:23
Good idea. Talk to others that are shooting and try and learn some from them.. Maybe if you ask nicely ;) they will let you take a shot or two. Have you shot a rifle ever?

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 21:25
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
Good idea. Talk to others that are shooting and try and learn some from them.. Maybe if you ask nicely ;) they will let you take a shot or two. Have you shot a rifle ever?

I have never shot a long-gun before in my life. Neither a rifle or shotgun. My range has trap shoot on thursday nights so I think I could get fairly good with a shotgun that way. But I have always liked snipe shooters so I have always liked the long range of a rifle. It will be a hard choice to decide upon.

HuntingGuy
12-17-2004, 21:26
What will you primarily be using this gun for?

If deer: Get the rifle!
If birds: Get the shotgun!

Simple as that ;)

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 21:35
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
What will you primarily be using this gun for?

If deer: Get the rifle!
If birds: Get the shotgun!

Simple as that ;)

That is why I thought the rifle would be better. Yes, Deer. Can you not shoot a deer with a shotgun? I know you have to be closer with a shotgun, but how much closer. How much do typical rifles cost compared to shotguns? How much does ammo cost compared to shotgun?

I know questions, questions, questions but they have to be asked.

HuntingGuy
12-17-2004, 21:45
That is why I thought the rifle would be better. Yes, Deer. Can you not shoot a deer with a shotgun? I know you have to be closer with a shotgun, but how much closer. How much do typical rifles cost compared to shotguns? How much does ammo cost compared to shotgun?

You can shoot deer with a shotgun shooting slugs. I don't shoot slugs in my shotguns so maybe one of these guys can help you out with distances there. I would say out to 50 yards with an open sighted shotgun, 75 with a scope. You can find rifles from 100 dollars to 100,000.00 ;) Shotguns alike..

Any shotgun hunters out there? Help em' out


ALSO: Have you taken a hunters/firearm safety course? Who will you be hunting with? Will you be hunting public or private land? etc.

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 21:51
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
You can shoot deer with a shotgun shooting slugs. I don't shoot slugs in my shotguns so maybe one of these guys can help you out with distances there. I would say out to 50 yards with an open sighted shotgun, 75 with a scope. You can find rifles from 100 dollars to 100,000.00 ;) Shotguns alike..

Any shotgun hunters out there? Help em' out


ALSO: Have you taken a hunters/firearm safety course?

No course, yet. When I get the rifle (most likely) or shotgun I will take the class. Would that matter if I took it before or after I have the gun? Could I get a good rifle for around $300?

HuntingGuy
12-17-2004, 21:54
I would recommend taking the course BEFORE buying a gun! I was assuming it was taken already. For 5-10.00 that course is amazing. I took it before I touched a gun, and learned so much. They will teach you the different types of rifles and shotguns, hunting situations, hunting and firearm safety, as well as take you shooting with a .22 rifle with the class on your last day. In many states you can not purchase a hunting license without having taken the course!

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 21:59
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
I would recommend taking the course BEFORE buying a gun! I was assuming it was taken already. For 5-10.00 that course is amazing. I took it before I touched a gun, and learned so much. They will teach you the different types of rifles and shotguns, hunting situations, hunting and firearm safety, as well as take you shooting with a .22 rifle with the class on your last day. In many states you can not purchase a hunting license without having taken the course!

How long does the course take? Is it consecutive days in a row? I figured that I couldn't get a hunting permit till I took the class, but hunting is in another year. So I have time, but now that you said they let you fire a .22 rifle (in most cases) I will give it a try soon (I should anyway).

HuntingGuy
12-17-2004, 22:26
It should be run through your local DNR (Department of Natural Resources). The class is a month long if I remember right, 2 or 3 (1 hour) classes weekly. The class is absolutely priceless. The sooner the better.. A year creeps up quick, and you don't want to be sighting in your new rifle the day before deer season.. Take the course and figure out which rifle you want to purchase. Don't rush things, that is the biggest mistake you can make. Take your time to research potential guns and hunting options. If you don't make it out next year, it isn't a big deal.. Hit it hard the following year.

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 22:55
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
It should be run through your local DNR (Department of Natural Resources). The class is a month long if I remember right, 2 or 3 (1 hour) classes weekly. The class is absolutely priceless. The sooner the better.. A year creeps up quick, and you don't want to be sighting in your new rifle the day before deer season.. Take the course and figure out which rifle you want to purchase. Don't rush things, that is the biggest mistake you can make. Take your time to research potential guns and hunting options. If you don't make it out next year, it isn't a big deal.. Hit it hard the following year.

I just joined a local Conservation Club, that offers hunters safety classes. Next time I go on down there I will ask about it. I will probably take the class with in the next month or 2 then buy my rifle withing 3 or 4 months. That gives me plenty of time to sight in and practice.

I just talked to my dad about hunting (he used to hunt, by bow only though, so asking him about rifles is no help), he said that it cost quite abit to have it prepared(after you clean it dont you have to bring it to someone to get the meat from it or something?), is that true? If so how much, USUALLY? Also, typically if you get a average sized deer how much meat do you get out of it? Thanks...

DocHolliday
12-17-2004, 23:14
You can get a lot of meat off a deer if properly butchered. I learned a great method from a video. I actually have a computer vider on how to field dress a deer. It's 20 MB's so if I can find a place to host it I'll put it up. The hunter class in Virginia was free, but stretched out over the course of 4 weeks. One weekend we had 10 hours of teaching then the next we had 6 hours. I graduated the test 100% though.


Doc

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 23:18
Originally posted by DocHolliday
You can get a lot of meat off a deer if properly butchered. I learned a great method from a video. I actually have a computer vider on how to field dress a deer. It's 20 MB's so if I can find a place to host it I'll put it up. The hunter class in Virginia was free, but stretched out over the course of 4 weeks. One weekend we had 10 hours of teaching then the next we had 6 hours. I graduated the test 100% though.


Doc

I wouldn't mind seeing that video. I understand all people field dress there deer after a kill but what about actually getting the meat. Do most people bring the dear home, skin it, fillet it, or do whatever they do to prepare it for consumption?

DocHolliday
12-17-2004, 23:45
I'll see if I can't find a place to host it then. What kind of Internet Connection do you have? I think that is in the video on caping the deer and stuff.


Doc

ToBePD
12-17-2004, 23:46
A fast one. Cable or something like that.

DocHolliday
12-17-2004, 23:55
Good, I have High-Speed Broadband.

lomfs24
12-18-2004, 00:41
Originally posted by ToBePD
I wouldn't mind seeing that video. I understand all people field dress there deer after a kill but what about actually getting the meat. Do most people bring the dear home, skin it, fillet it, or do whatever they do to prepare it for consumption?

First of all I would like to say that up until this point I have 100% agreed with HuntingGuy. I hope you have taken his words to heart. The only suggestion I would make is take a look at your hunting areas. Are they going to be close range, heavy brush on (small) large game like whitetail or black tail deer and some birds? If so go with a shotgun. Is your hunting area going to be longer shots, larger game (Muley deer elk, moose)? Go with a rifle. You have had some good suggestions for calibers of rifle. I will add this though, it's not the caliber it's the shot placement. I routinely hunt with much smaller calibers than mentioned here and smaller than legal in some states. I have never lost a deer. So get a caliber that strikes your fancy and practice, practice, practice. Also don't just practice at the range. Get a picture of a deer and visualize where key internal parts are, heart, lungs, etc... or any other vital area that may bring a deer down. Visualize how large that is. And if you can consistently hit that size target at all ranges and also unknown ranges you will be fine. Unknown ranges would if you can find a place to shoot that is not a designated shooting range with marked yardages. A place where you have to guess distance. Because a deer will not stand in front of a berm at 100 yards, ever. He may be 86 yards, he may be 163 yards he may be 327 yards... you get my point? You will not have yardage markers in the field.

About proccessing game. There is a meat shop here that has a video on boning and cutting meat. It's pretty good and if anyone is interested I would be happy to get contact info for you to get a copy. Sometimes I will do my own game sometimes I will take it in to the meat shop. Depends on how thin my wallet is at the time. This year my deer cost me about $60 and my elk cost me about $180. That was just for steaks, roast and burger. If I wanted sausage or jerky it would have been more. I got about 60 lbs of meat from my deer and a little over 200lbs of meat from my elk.

XD40FAN
12-18-2004, 11:07
Originally posted by lomfs24
First of all I would like to say that up until this point I have 100% agreed with HuntingGuy. I hope you have taken his words to heart. The only suggestion I would make is take a look at your hunting areas. Are they going to be close range, heavy brush on (small) large game like whitetail or black tail deer and some birds? If so go with a shotgun. Is your hunting area going to be longer shots, larger game (Muley deer elk, moose)? Go with a rifle. You have had some good suggestions for calibers of rifle. I will add this though, it's not the caliber it's the shot placement. I routinely hunt with much smaller calibers than mentioned here and smaller than legal in some states. I have never lost a deer. So get a caliber that strikes your fancy and practice, practice, practice. Also don't just practice at the range. Get a picture of a deer and visualize where key internal parts are, heart, lungs, etc... or any other vital area that may bring a deer down. Visualize how large that is. And if you can consistently hit that size target at all ranges and also unknown ranges you will be fine. Unknown ranges would if you can find a place to shoot that is not a designated shooting range with marked yardages. A place where you have to guess distance. Because a deer will not stand in front of a berm at 100 yards, ever. He may be 86 yards, he may be 163 yards he may be 327 yards... you get my point? You will not have yardage markers in the field.

About proccessing game. There is a meat shop here that has a video on boning and cutting meat. It's pretty good and if anyone is interested I would be happy to get contact info for you to get a copy. Sometimes I will do my own game sometimes I will take it in to the meat shop. Depends on how thin my wallet is at the time. This year my deer cost me about $60 and my elk cost me about $180. That was just for steaks, roast and burger. If I wanted sausage or jerky it would have been more. I got about 60 lbs of meat from my deer and a little over 200lbs of meat from my elk.

I'm also new, and have been following this thread closely.

First, is it common for local butcher shops to provide this service? I've been concerned about how I was going to get the deer processed, and this sounds like a great option!!

HuntingGuy
12-18-2004, 12:34
Also don't just practice at the range. Get a picture of a deer and visualize where key internal parts are, heart, lungs, etc... or any other vital area that may bring a deer down.

VERY good advice! During the off-season I spend my time sighting in my rifles I am taking the following year at 100 & 200 yards. Once they are sighted in, I shoot offhand at 50 and 100 yards. Shooting off hand is overlooked by many. While walking to your stand, you see a big brute step out in front of you at 50 yards. You don't have a Hoppe's bench rest to put your rifle on! You need to put a sling on it and use the sling as a brace to help you steady the gun and get a solid hold. When hunting is a couple weeks away, I pull out my lifesize deer targets and set them at 25, 50, 100, and 200 yards. Below is a target of my shots off the bench with my Browning A-Bolt 30-06 at the deer from all four of those distances from last year.

http://www.jla-design.com/deershoulder.jpg

These targets are great. I guess a lifesize target is more an assurance factor than a normal bullseye target and should give you good practice on shot placement, but it should still be something you research further down the road. Like lom said, your leaving out alot of crucial information. Where you will be hunting plays a large part in your caliber and rifle choice. If you are hunting in thick brush, a .243 may not do it for you while a 30-06 may. You get the point anyways. I wouldn't worry about the butchering and proccessing of your game at this point, take one thing at a time. Take the class, figure out where your going to hunt and the regulations in that area, see if you can find someone to take you out hunting that has been going for years, purchase a rifle, and then shoot shoot shoot. If I lived closer I would let you shoot some of my rifles, but talk to the guys at the range and see if they will let you shoot a few rounds. I am not sure how big of a guy you are, but don't be afraid of recoil - it can be overcome. I wouldn't hesitate buying a 30-06 right off the bat.

Best of luck to you :)

DocHolliday
12-18-2004, 13:12
I agree with hunting guy, get a .30-06 that will cover you no matter what game you want. Also I find that 4 or 5 inch paper plates make excellent practice targets. As long as you can consistently hit them you'll do fine.

Doc

HuntingGuy
12-18-2004, 13:16
Also I find that 4 or 5 inch paper plates make excellent practice targets.

If you are going to go the paper plate route, take a bright blue or red sharpie and color a 1" circle in the middle to act as the bullseye so you have something to consistantly aim at each shot. With most rifles you should be shooting 1.5-2" at 100 yards with practice.. There is so much that goes into achieving good accuracy with a new gun, wish you had someone near by to mentor you.

ToBePD
12-18-2004, 18:01
I went over to a local Dicks Sporting Goods and a Dunhams Sports. They both recommended the Savage 30-06. Both places were a little under $400 (by about $50 dollars or less), is that a good buy? That is with tax. Dunhams had it $365 with $25 off, so that basically takes care of sales tax. It is a bolt action, if I remember correctly and the sale will be off next thursday. Just asking for oppinions, should I take the "deal" or not?

lomfs24
12-18-2004, 18:14
Here is what I do to find out if I am getting a good "deal" or not on a gun. I find out what they want for it then I go to www.gunsamerica.com or www.gunbroker.com (I think those URLS are right) and see what that same model with the same options is selling for there. In my experience that seems to be a better gauge for what prices are than the Gun Buyers Guide Book.

$365 for a Savage doesn't seem like a bad deal to me but I would check out gun auction sites for a better "informed" decision. 30-06 would be a fine choice too.

HuntingGuy
12-18-2004, 18:21
Take it, bud. Alot of happy Savage owners out there. I don't personally own one, but they are said to be good rifles. Now it's time to find a scope, bases, and rings for the gun!! Head over to the 'Optics' forum at http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com and http://www.huntamerica.com and make a post.. This is where I hang out most of my time, and these guys have been hunting and shooting all of their lives - Some of the most knowlegable guys I know.

Good luck

ToBePD
12-18-2004, 18:50
The rifle comes with a scope, don't remember what kind but I was told a decent one. Then again they will tell me anything to sell it. They set up everything there, don't know what that means, but they do it:).

lomfs24 I tried a search for that gun but couldn't find it. Maybe I don't now how to use the site (thats probably it), but I can't find it.

HuntingGuy
12-18-2004, 18:52
I don't care for scope-rifle combos but I guess that is personal preference. The big thing is what your budget allows!

ToBePD
12-18-2004, 18:55
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
I don't care for scope-rifle combos but I guess that is personal preference. The big thing is what your budget allows!

I still will probably get a after market scope, but that will be down the road. It should atleast get me started.

HuntingGuy
12-18-2004, 18:56
Git' er done!!!!!!!

ToBePD
12-18-2004, 21:06
It looks like the price the two shops in town are offering is about right if not a little below. I will see which one is cheaper and go from there. Savage looks like a nice name in the rifle family, widely used and looked at as a good gun. I hope I make a good choice.

I saw on a website that the trigger pull is a little high, does that matter incredible? I wouldn't think so.

HuntingGuy
12-19-2004, 14:58
ToBePd-

Take a look at this link http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=49640

ToBePD
12-19-2004, 17:18
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
ToBePd-

Take a look at this link http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=49640

Thanks. That helped reasure that I will be making a good choice. There not pretty but they get the job done, thats all that matters to me. I'm not looking to impress people by the looks of the gun, but by my ability as a shooter (eventually). Should I wait till after the new year? I don't want to, i'm a very impatient person and if I want something I have to get it then or withing a few days. I don't "need" it right now, but I wan't to fire it at the range real bad.

HuntingGuy
12-19-2004, 18:57
If you have the money, GO GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!

klmmicro
12-22-2004, 14:34
Originally posted by ToBePD
They both recommended the Savage 30-06. Both places were a little under $400 (by about $50 dollars or less), is that a good buy?

This sounds like a good deal, did you get it yet?

My hunting partner carries a Savage in .30-06 and he loves it. When he first bought it we both thought the trigger was stiff, but not unbearable by any means. He had a local shop take a look at it and they polished a couple fo parts. To me it made no difference, but he likes it.

lomfs24
12-22-2004, 14:51
I have never been a big fan of the Savage trigger. However, I did get a chance to look at the new accutrigger by Savage and thought that was a vast improvement. Still a little stiff but I think a gun shop could straighten that right up.

HuntingGuy
12-22-2004, 14:58
Fill us in!! Did ya get er'?!? ;)

ToBePD
12-22-2004, 19:31
Originally posted by HuntingGuy
Fill us in!! Did ya get er'?!? ;)

Not yet I don't have enough money yet. I have to pay for tuition and a car debt. But when I get enough money it will happen. I promise.;f

punkture
12-23-2004, 14:34
I had a similar question this time last year and turned to these forums for answers. I ended up buying way more than I needed, but overall I'm pleased with my purchase. I bought a Tikka (http://www.tikka.fi) T3 Lite 7mm Rem Mag and a Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40mm scope. So far with it, I've taken 6 shots, 6 kills: 3 bucks, 2 does, and a bobcat. If I had it to do all over (which I may next season), I'd go with another Tikka T3 Lite, but chambered in .308, .270, or 30-06 and with a more realistic/useful scope powering, like 3-8x. The Bushnell Elite glass is great, but I'd like to give Leopold or Zeiss a chance since I've read excellent reviews of both. As much as I shoot, my next caliber decision is most likely going to be based on ammunition cost, availability, and options. For what its worth, Wal-Mart distribute Tikka rifles which are imported by Beretta. They have some pretty good deals on them. On a similar note, I've killed more deer than I can possibly remember with my dad's Marlin 30-30 with iron sights and my scoped Marlin 30-30 (great deer rifles for up to 100/150 yards. I decided to go with the 7mm Rem Mag due to me frequently hunting pipeline areas where I have the possibility of taking upwards of 400/450 yard shots. You may want to take into consideration the maximum distances that you expect to be shooting. I used this link to weigh my decision, but as I stated before, I still think 7mm Rem Mag, while a great caliber is a bit overkill for my purposes: http://gunnersden.com/index.htm.rifle-cartridges-ballistics.html . Good luck!

HuntingGuy
12-23-2004, 18:12
I ended up buying way more than I needed

;z We have that effect don't we ;f ;f

lomfs24
12-23-2004, 18:56
Originally posted by punkture
I ended up buying way more than I needed,...

Don't we all? As far as optics go, I don't purchase real high end optics. I probably shoot or at least have a gun with me more than most people on this board. My rifle is in the truck with me all year. From 120 degrees to -40 degrees. Often on rough dirt roads. Seems to me that Bushnell Redfield and those hold up to those conditions as long as Zeiss, Nikon and some of the more expensive brands. And when you take a spill in the woods an expensive scope hits the ground with the same force as a more affordable scope does.

HuntingGuy
12-23-2004, 19:00
an expensive scope hits the ground with the same force as a more affordable scope does.

Obviously can't argue with that. I have Leupolds on all of my rifles. Just can't beat their quality and their warranty. Many of the lower priced optics do not carry a 'You drop it, we will replace it' warranty such as Leupold. You drop your scope a few times, buy new ones, and you could have just bought a Leupold.. I may be a tad bit bias ;Q ;f Buy what you can afford is the big thing! If you have 4-500.00 set aside for a scope, Leupold is your man. If not, Bushnell makes fine optics too.

lomfs24
12-23-2004, 19:10
Sightron (I think that is how it is spelled) makes very affordable optics with great quality with an over the counter warranty. Doesn't matter what happenes to it they replace it. The only way you lose with them is if you lose your scope or binoc's. But I do agree Leupold has a great warranty.

0100010
12-24-2004, 10:31
I had a similar question this time last year and turned to these forums for answers. I ended up buying way more than I needed, but overall I'm pleased with my purchase. I bought a Tikka (http://www.tikka.fi) T3 Lite 7mm Rem Mag and a Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40mm scope......

Pretty much the same for me a couple months ago. I plan on picking up a deer rifle in the near future and what I decided on after consulting everyone here was a Tikka T3 Lite in 7mm-08 (blued) (http://www.ozarkguns.com/rifles/tikka/tikkat3lite.htm) with a Bushnell Elite 4200 1.5 - 6 x 36 scope (http://www.ultout.com/images/17315.jpg) mounted in Sako Optilock Xtra-Lo rings and bases. (http://www.lebaron.ca/pdf_fall/hunting/sako_tik.pdf)

Fox
12-24-2004, 21:26
Originally posted by ToBePD
I plan on going hunting next year and I will purchase my first rifle around May. Just wondering what is a good rifle? What would you all recommened? Price range is $200-$400. I wan't something that will hopefully put it down right away if the shot placement is right.I don't want a shotgun from the start, i just want a rifle to hunt with. I am 19 years old, just to let you know.

Everyone should have a .30-30 Winchester M94 rifle.

Check the local gunshops for an older used thutty-thutty, the new ones have those lame lawyer inspired safety mechanisms.

BigMadDog
12-28-2004, 22:50
Ive been thinking about buying my first hunting rifle and this thread has been extremely helpful. The one differance i was thinking is that i wanted a 308 because first of all you know you have enough power, second cheap surplus ammo 9-11 cents a shot is nice for practicing, plinking and using your rifle more then 1 weekend a month. Is thier any reason i shouldnt buy the 308 and go with a smaller round? I use my ak 47 to kill the coyotes and small animals this would be for Large Deer (we dont shoot doe in utah) and elk. I guess my question is why shouldnt i get the 308?

lomfs24
12-29-2004, 00:06
Originally posted by BigMadDog
I guess my question is why shouldnt i get the 308?

I prefer a 30-06 but there is absolutely no reason for you not to get a .308 if that's what you are comfortable with. It has the poop to do what you want no questions there.