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SHEPHERD321
12-09-2004, 18:56
I was very upset with Rumsfled's fielding of questions concerning the armys lack of armor on there trucks. Roughly 12 months ago my reserve unit offered to assist depot workers that were installing armor on HUMVVs. The response was that they didn't want our help.
You go to war with what you have, bull, we've had 2 years to aquire everything needed.:soap:

WIG19
12-10-2004, 12:51
That's not the half of it. Anyone think that the current AO's are the only place where we've been likely to encounter mines or IED's? The requirement has been there for awhile. Well-meaning people are attempting, constantly, to rectify things. Unfortunately those who care enough are often not high enough to be the agents of change that are needed. Regardless of what my current SecDef says, the non-AC component has been funded over the last 2 decades at such a shameful level that it's disgusting. The result is that we have to fix everything at the Guard or Reserve unit's mobilization station, if we have the time.

I recall a very fine Secretary and Chief of Staff-Army who were both shown the door because their estimates of what it would take to sustain the peace were "wildly off the mark." Those two knew what would happen if we had what GEN Franks calls "catastrophic success."

The excuse that SecDef is only acceding to the troops that his field commanders call for his bull. If things were still this messed up then obviously the field estimates are "wildly off the mark", you (SecDef) relieve some people, and you get some commanders on the ground who will ask for what's needed to secure the country.

I'm a vet, still in the process, and I approved this message.
;?
Edit: and you can see here (http://ebird.afis.osd.mil/ebfiles/e20041210aaindex.html)that he got an earful.

FLIPPER 348
12-12-2004, 00:16
Originally posted by SHEPHERD321
I was very upset with Rumsfled's fielding of questions concerning the armys lack of armor on there trucks. :

Rumsfield, what a horse's ass. To bad we had to go to war with the SecDef we have. I'd like to take his ass on a convoy or two over in Iraq in an un-armored HumVee or better yet, a 5 ton.

Ed Ely
12-13-2004, 11:29
To further this thread, I offer up this:

Those questions that were asked by the enlisted men
were setup questions which were generated by a news
reporter. Why??? So happened that the press corp
were denied entrance/access to the session. So, one
enterprising news person got his ducks in a row and
rounded out a couple of GIs who would ask those serious
questions. All made up, just to generate press time
and degrade what the US of A is doing.

Of course, I guess that most who read the newspaper
surely believe everything that is in print. Please
do not give up on Rummy.

Ed

FLIPPER 348
12-13-2004, 21:11
screw the micro managing Field Marshall Von Rumsfeld

So the troops have no convern over the lack of armor on their vehicles while out on convoys.................. and only asked the question because reporters put them up to it??

SHEPHERD321
12-14-2004, 22:40
Does anyone remember when Rumsfled was the one that wanted to stop combat pay to the troops for the missions that are still going on? I just never felt he gave a dam about soldiers.

JDThorns
12-15-2004, 00:55
I see that after the Vietnam war (conflict) our politicans and military brass still haven't learned anything.
As a 5 ton tractor driver in Vietnam we had to scrounge for our armor too. We lined the floors with sandbags and hung sheetmetal all over our vehicles. Heck we even cut up abandoned apc,s for the alum.
We The People need to get off our duff and pester our elected officials to see that our troops get the armor they need. JDT
;6

baileym76
12-16-2004, 13:46
Originally posted by Ed Ely
To further this thread, I offer up this:

Those questions that were asked by the enlisted men
were setup questions which were generated by a news
reporter. Why??? So happened that the press corp
were denied entrance/access to the session. So, one
enterprising news person got his ducks in a row and
rounded out a couple of GIs who would ask those serious
questions. All made up, just to generate press time
and degrade what the US of A is doing.

Of course, I guess that most who read the newspaper
surely believe everything that is in print. Please
do not give up on Rummy.

Ed

I work at Ft. Lewis processing soldiers who have been injured overseas. You have no clue how many of these young kids(majority 18-22 years old) have been mangled because that assjack is in charge. Those soldiers who asked the questions wouldn't have said a thing if they disagreed with the reporter. All the other soldiers who were cheering also agreed with the questions. I have 6 friends who have been injured in Iraq, and all but one was injured by an IED. The SecDef is an uncaring, un-informed ass.

SGT Matthew Bailey

Decguns
12-18-2004, 12:05
We've been sending 400 "Up-Armored" Hummers to the Gulf every month. If I hear another Guard weenie in Kuwait whine he doesn't have an armored Hummer I'm gonna puke!

I went into Baghdad last year with scrounged sheet metal welded and bolted to my Hummer. Didn't hear me whining.

What ever happened to "Overcome & Adapt"?

You go to war with what you have, which is what Bill Clinton Left us.

SHEPHERD321
12-19-2004, 13:13
The other trucks are the issue, not humvees.
Where you refurring to the soldiers that just received jail time for using another units trucks.

Central Texan
12-19-2004, 23:50
Rumsfeld inherited a dismembered Army. He tried to strengthen it then got hammered for wanting to spend $ fixing Clinton'd doings and bringing the military back up to strength. He caught a lot of flack for that. Then we went to war. Now folks are critisizing him for not doing enough. This is a joke. (On a seperate note, this deal about him not realy signing the letters of notice of death realy pisses me off)

Check the # of armored HMMWV's we had there 18 months ago and how many we have now and tell me again he hasnt done anything about it.

I'd like to see our larger trucks (5 tons for example) get fitted with armor. I personaly am assigned both a HMMWV and a 5 ton. Neither have any armor (we are still stateside and only now begining to prepare for our deployment) and I dont know if they will, but you can bet no matter what level of armor they get I will be looking for more.

Trent0341
12-23-2004, 05:53
What is a "national guard weenie"? 40% of the soldiers in Iraq are made up of the guard reserve component. I was there for OIF 1 (Tallil, An Nasiriyah, Basrah, Bucca) and am back for OIF 3 (Baghdad) because I volunteered. What I'm tired of is active duty personnel thinking and treating me like I'm a second class soldier when I've probably spent more time on active duty than they have.

AirCav
12-30-2004, 15:32
What I'm tired of is active duty personnel thinking and treating me like I'm a second class soldier when I've probably spent more time on active duty than they have.
Amen, brother! ;c

Apparently, more than a few AD soldiers don't realize that the National Guard force includes of a lot of ex-active duty folks, either.

We've been where you've been. (and quite a few are where you are now!) We all don't fit your "weekend warrior" stereotype.

Oh, by the way, whiners come in a wide variety of flavors. The NG doesn't have a corner on that market.

codivecop
12-31-2004, 21:58
Originally posted by Decguns
What ever happened to "Overcome & Adapt"?

You go to war with what you have, which is what Bill Clinton Left us.
;?;?;?;?;?;?;?;?;?;? ^c^c^c^c^c^c^c^c^c

Clinton hosed us then and "Blue Falcon'd" the troops of today. The first hint should have been Somalia!!! Refusing armor to troops taking .50 cal rounds???? "Well it was a humanitarian mission." ;T

If anyone remembers the finger pointing, bang, bang joke. That was us in training due to lack of training munitions.... Good thing we didn't have to go to war 10 years ago.

srfl
01-04-2005, 13:09
Originally posted by AirCav
Amen, brother! ;c

Apparently, more than a few AD soldiers don't realize that the National Guard force includes of a lot of ex-active duty folks, either.

We've been where you've been. (and quite a few are where you are now!) We all don't fit your "weekend warrior" stereotype.

Oh, by the way, whiners come in a wide variety of flavors. The NG doesn't have a corner on that market.

When I was in Iraq my ANG unit was replaced by an AD USAF unit...I felt nothing but attitude from the AD folks; as if we Guard types didn't know what to do...mind you the average age of my squadron was in the mid 30's, most of us (like me) were on AD once upon a time and most of us in our careers also have been either deployed more or as many times as the AD folks since most them were junior NCO's or officers and most of us were senior NCO's and officers.

stengun
01-05-2005, 21:13
Howdy,

Originally posted by codivecop
[BClinton hosed us then and "Blue Falcon'd" the troops of today. The first hint should have been Somalia!!! Refusing armor to troops taking .50 cal rounds???? "Well it was a humanitarian mission." ;T

[/B]

It wasn't Clinton that sent the troops to Somalia. It was Big George Bush. This was done AFTER he lost the election to Clinton.

If anybody inherited a screwed up mess it was Bill Clinton. Plus, don't forget Waco, Tx and the Davidans. All the officals that made the decisions to raid the Compound were all RR/BGB appointees. This was done on Feb 28, 1993 and Clinton had only been in office for a month and Reno wasn't even appointed yet.

Big George Bush sent the under and outdated equiped troops to Somalia after he was voted out of office. Gee, I wonder why?;Q ^8

Paul#wav

Black Tiger
01-08-2005, 10:27
Guys! Don't lose focus here; We have never gone to war in any time in our history with everything that we needed; at Valley Forge, our fledgling Army had a lack of the basic stuff, food, clothing and shoes and yet, they defeated the British.

In WW2, when we fought against the Germans, we did it in tanks that were inferior in Armor and firepower to the superior German tanks, such as the King Tiger and the Panther, and yet, we won the war with what we had; furthermore, during the Normandy Breakout, we encountered Hedgerow Country and lost tanks and troops because the Germans were using the Hedgerows to hide their tanks and their 88mm guns to knock out our tanks; the solution? a field expedient hedgerow cutter made out of steel plating, welded into the fronts of out tanks. Field expediency.

The concept of "Hillbilly Armor" is not new, it has been used in every war since the 1940s, so even when our entire indiustrial might was poised to victory in two fronts, our troops were still lacking in supplies, equipment and such, so scrounging for spare parts from disabled vehicles is no new thing either; my uncle did it in Vietnam when he served with the 101st Airborne as a chopper door gunner; he had to help the crew chief to scrounge up parts for their helicopters from downed ones they would recover.

I know that Rumsfeld is doing everything he can to ensure that our guys have the proper equipment to do their jobs, from body armor, to armor for their vehicles, to food, water, fuel and so forth.

One soldier cohersed by a liberal reporter says something that puts ous Sec. of Defense on the defensive and now, everyone wants Rummy's head on a platter, were are falling into the Democrats gameplan here, folks.

We must do everything possible to support, not only our troops, but our leaders in office, so that we can win this war both on the frontlines and at home, otherwise Operation Iraqi Freedom will end up like Vietnam.

On the National Guard deal; most of the guys in my Reserve MP unit, myself included, were former active duty MPs and the avereage age of our guys ran between 25 and 40 years of age, some of us have over 12 years of experience in the field and 2 out of three soldiers in my unit were cops in civilian life, so I don't see National Guardsmen or Reservists as "Weekend Warriors", we have the same level of training and field experience as active duty soldiers, only difference is that we have jobs on the civilian sector.

THIS IS NOT BURGER KING, FOLKS; YOU CAN'T HAVE IT "YOUR WAY". MAKE DUE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE AND MAKE THE BEST OF IT UNTIL YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED. AND DRIVE ON.

(Oh, and before you even think about saying "You weren't there, so STFU", I was there with the 220th MP Brigade from Feb-Nov, 03 and I ran convoys up and down MSR Tampa up to BIAP and back. No Uparmored Humvees on my runs. Just look at my avatar.)

Darkangel1846
01-08-2005, 12:38
Originally posted by SHEPHERD321
I was very upset with Rumsfled's fielding of questions concerning the armys lack of armor on there trucks. Roughly 12 months ago my reserve unit offered to assist depot workers that were installing armor on HUMVVs. The response was that they didn't want our help.
You go to war with what you have, bull, we've had 2 years to aquire everything needed.:soap:

Look the Bush ADm was trying to CYA on the shortage of armor for the Humvv and body armor. This is nothing new. We went to war unprepared, as usuall. The Military always gets shafted when we have a Demorat as president. It always seem like we end up fighting someone right after a Damn Demorat gets booted out of office. We always end up sending our young men into first battle short of equipment. The leftist press, always pissed off that another Democrap wasn't elected, drags out all the shortages and points the finger at who ever is in office. The dirty Democraps always tear down our Military to pay for freebee programs for the poor, thats why we were unprepared and have more dead soldiers. Now I'm not saying that the current Adm hasn't made several mistakes, but, the shortages......well just go back to William Jefferson Clinton and his pack of dirtbags like Schumer, Boxier, Fineswine.
Every soldier who died because he didn't have the protective armor he needed, well his blood is on their hands. Thats why I hate all Democraps.

A_Swede_17_1911
01-17-2005, 20:47
Im back in Iraq after spending a year there, well we have amorored HMMWV, now, there great, we dont peticularly like em, but yeah they are amorered and slow and hard to see out of. Not saying that they dont work, we used to use l the light HMMWV with out doors. Why cause we could see out of em and fire from right inside the vehical with out having to stop, we ran around baghdad like this for a year. We would rather use speed for security, and be able to place effective fires on the enemy. Now we use the armorored vehicals, we dont like em but we have to use em. Now granted, im not a MP, or a anything like that im Light Infantry, so were used to being on our feet and granted were only in a vehical to get to an objective on our mission. We do like the M1114 in the summer cause well they have AC and it makes a difference over here.
Were definatly used to geting by with what we can do, you think being the 82nd we would get what we wanted, but no since we are usally deyployed in combat teams, we get shafted sometimes by the unit were assigned to. Thats just life and we just deal with it. Now far as NG goes, the Infantry units we've talked to are squared away. Now this is just Infantry units, not the MP's or other guard units. This is just from what ive seen. So far in one month my battlaion has done over 780 combat patrols. Mostly on foot, and vehical, this is in our first month back over here, and were im at we've had no breaches in the the sector by Insurgents, which hasnt happend for awhile I guess. The word on the street is the 82nd is back and the Insurgents know from past expericences to hit a easier target than us.

army_eod
01-26-2005, 22:11
Originally posted by FLIPPER 348
Rumsfield, what a horse's ass. To bad we had to go to war with the SecDef we have. I'd like to take his ass on a convoy or two over in Iraq in an un-armored HumVee or better yet, a 5 ton.
Amen Brother...I was in IZ as a contractor and we got ambushed in Hit. Take the SECDEF and Wolfowitz on the road a few times.

For that matter, take all leaders out there for a few hours. They would get some "situational awareness."

army_eod
01-26-2005, 22:13
Originally posted by JDThorns
I see that after the Vietnam war (conflict) our politicans and military brass still haven't learned anything.
As a 5 ton tractor driver in Vietnam we had to scrounge for our armor too. We lined the floors with sandbags and hung sheetmetal all over our vehicles. Heck we even cut up abandoned apc,s for the alum.
We The People need to get off our duff and pester our elected officials to see that our troops get the armor they need. JDT
;6

One thing we see is that no matter how much armor you have, they just add more HE and frag.

army_eod
01-26-2005, 22:18
Originally posted by Trent0341
What is a "national guard weenie"? 40% of the soldiers in Iraq are made up of the guard reserve component. I was there for OIF 1 (Tallil, An Nasiriyah, Basrah, Bucca) and am back for OIF 3 (Baghdad) because I volunteered. What I'm tired of is active duty personnel thinking and treating me like I'm a second class soldier when I've probably spent more time on active duty than they have.

I say again...Amen Bro. If it weren't for the RC, the US couldn't fight a war. Also mention that they couldn't fight without contractors either.

I am an RC staff puke at USCENTCOM. I was a contractor in IZ in Oct and was ambushed. Started out in AC until they downsized the AC after Desert Storm. Now they are paying for that stupid decision. You wouldn't believe how many retirees I have met who have been called back. Bottom line: the Army is stretched REAL THIN.

army_eod
01-26-2005, 22:19
Originally posted by AirCav
Amen, brother! ;c

Apparently, more than a few AD soldiers don't realize that the National Guard force includes of a lot of ex-active duty folks, either.

We've been where you've been. (and quite a few are where you are now!) We all don't fit your "weekend warrior" stereotype.

Oh, by the way, whiners come in a wide variety of flavors. The NG doesn't have a corner on that market.

LOL...many in the AC are clueless. They will figure it out when they get on the outside.