Speed. Need speed.. Question.. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Skyhook
12-16-2004, 16:08
Ok, so 'dial-up' is not associated with speed- usually- I still think I am entitled (entitled?) to better connections.
My dial-up provider and I have a discussion going on because I am often seeing 30-40Kbps speeds when I have been 'treated' to 52+Kbps previously. The difference in downloading is close to astronomical...really.
Question: Is it the phone company or the provider who determines dial-up speeds?
(PS: I am in a part of the country where the natives still greet cable with a 'Huh?')

NetNinja
12-16-2004, 17:04
No the FCC.

I think it's something like 46kb.

and if you are in the boonies dialup just plain sucks.

fastvfr
12-17-2004, 03:12
Originally posted by Skyhook
Ok, so 'dial-up' is not associated with speed- usually- I still think I am entitled (entitled?) to better connections.
My dial-up provider and I have a discussion going on because I am often seeing 30-40Kbps speeds when I have been 'treated' to 52+Kbps previously. The difference in downloading is close to astronomical...really.
Question: Is it the phone company or the provider who determines dial-up speeds?
(PS: I am in a part of the country where the natives still greet cable with a 'Huh?')

It is the phone company that is throttling you.

I worked at an ISP here for over two years, and there are areas around here where folks cannot get a decent connection at all, not even to an analog 33.6Kbps modem. They literally did not have enough bandwidth to send an e-mail.

Look, it breaks down like this: the FCC mandates that the Telco has to provide you with a minimum of 12Kbps, as that is what a phone needs for voice communication. They also regulate the total bandwidth for a dialup modem to under 56Kbps since any more than that goes over specs for crosstalk and RF interference.

Problem with the 12Kb/s bottom end is, you need 14Kbps to send a Fax, and 14.4Kbps to send an e-mail. That's cutting it close.

If you are wondering, the ISP normally has exactly 56Kbps of bandwidth available for each modem, and if you were to take your PC down to their shop and hook it up there, you'd get around 50Kbps, since there is very little copper between your modem and the server. And you cannot use the full 56K, due to send bits and whatnot using part of it.

The last time I used dialup (>shudder<), I would normally connect at 40 to 46Kb/s; now and then I'd get a 33.6Kbps hookup...that was my cue to redial.

Try this yourself: dial up and disconnect, over and over, and see if your speed is the same each time.

There is very little chance that it will be, as you will be routed on different lines in the grid to the ISP each time.

Sorry to be the one to break this to you, but if there is too much line congestion between you and the ISP (too many users, not enough wire), then you are doomed to slow speeds. Working on the Web late at night or during the early morning will give faster connections in that case.

Then again, I have seen redials double the amount of traffic permitted, so that never hurts to try.

STAY AWAY from those 'Web Accellerators'!! They are nothing but trouble; all they do for you is decrease the visual quality of pictures on web pages. That's it. But at the same time, lots of them have these nifty little Trojans and keystroke loggers in them that will cause you endless grief. And some even route you through a Proxy server, which can see AND RECORD everything you do online.

If nothing else, you could get a second phone line and a spare modem, and 'shotgun' the connection by using two accounts simultaneously for double the bandwidth, as well as redundancy - since if one disconnects, you still have half of your normal pipe to use!

But, yeah, if it gets any worse you can have the Telco send someone out to test your lines...if it is outside your home they'll normally fix it for free, but they charge an arm and a leg if it is inside your house.

If there is nothing wrong with the lines, then try a different provider's Guest Pass, so you can try a different server. There is a chance that some bandwidth was removed from those servers to reduce the overhead for the ISP while maximizing their profits. This happens frequently.

Good luck!!

Skyhook
12-17-2004, 04:48
Thanks, guys. Well, fastfvr, at last I know exactly is going on. Thank you.
I have tried that redial/reconnect business and usually meet with a slower rate(!) than I started with.. Yeah, the boonies.
I should be looking at the satellite stuff a bit closer, I guess, but that is costly for a hobby-type user.
Right now, I am doing 53.6 and it is 5:30 a.m. so I guess that is the combo.
Again, thanks.

fastvfr
12-18-2004, 00:20
Sure.

BTW, the Satellite connection you referred to is good only for surfing and downloading large files; it is nearly worthless for uplinks (FTP or e-mail) and it is WORSE THAN WORTHLESS for online gaming due to its 3000ms-5000ms latencies!

And with Direcway, a few people I know of around here who have it HATE IT. It allows them online maybe 72 hours a week, and there is no money back for poor service. Part of the contact, you see!! :(

If you have two separate phone lines, the 'shotgun' system works very well...in fact, I set alot of my customers up with "Poor Man's Broadband". It's easy under Windows.

As I wrote earlier, just get a second modem, install it, and run the first one on your no-frills data line whenever you want, but when you want to DL something or just surf 2x-3x faster you can bring up the second dialer and use the second phone line. Note that sometimes the ISP will not be pleased with you 'double-dipping' your account, and may have configured their servers specifically to disallow this sort of thing.

Sometimes they'll allow it for a small extra fee, since it will not be used 24/7 anyway b/c it's also on your voice line.

And either way, it'll be half the price of satellite, plus you don't have to buy all that outrageously expensive gear up-front!

Best of all, you can use a network card (802.11b or g for Wireless, or even CAT-5 Ethernet) to network another PC into the Web. I couldn't live without my own PC, since my GF seems to want to check her e-mail whenever I have something I need to do online.

So I pay $85 a month for telephone service, the DSL modem rent, and a 1600 Kbps pipe. >W00T< "Rich Man's Broadband!!"

Good luck,

FastVFR

Skyhook
12-18-2004, 04:41
FastFvr, when you say ".. you can bring up the second dialer and use the second phone line.", you infer that I would be dialing into my provider with that modem using a different number than the one they supplied with the first connection?
(I'm going to school, here!)

And, I almost forgot- thanks for the frank comments on that satellite set-up. I wondered about just how terrific that was.

fastvfr
12-18-2004, 11:44
Originally posted by Skyhook
FastFvr, when you say ".. you can bring up the second dialer and use the second phone line.", you infer that I would be dialing into my provider with that modem using a different number than the one they supplied with the first connection?

No, you'd be dialing the same number, to the same modem rack, and usually to the same account as well. You would need an ISP line from the phone co. (costs $10 to $20 less since it has no Call Waiting, Caller ID, LD, ect.) and a normal voice line to do this, though.

You probably have four or five PCI slots in your PC, and there is no reason (other than driver or IRQ conflicts) that you cannot populate all of them with modems. Given that you had sufficient phone lines in your residence, you could have FIVE DIALERS ONLINE AT ONCE and your Web connection could flat-out SCREAM with that many 56K pipes!!

But with our hypothetical 2-modem array, if you get a 50Kbps connection with one modem, then dial up to your account with a different modem and get a 46Kbps connection, then you have an effective bandwidth of over 90Kb/s for your SMTP, FTP or browser to use!

Sure, you could set it up with two different ISP's, but that would almost certainly cost more.

This is not real cheap, but for people in the country it is often their only hope for broadband of any kind. And as I pointed out, it would still cost less than I am paying for Frontier Max Speed ADSL...

Be glad you can get a digital connection at all! Lots of folks around here are too far from the CO to get anything faster that a 33.6Kb/s connection.

If you don't plan on getting a second phone line, though, then this discussion is moot - though the information may come in handy after graduation!!

Best regards,

FastVFR

Skyhook
12-18-2004, 17:58
;+ Graduation!
Thanks, again. I understand the concept and will be having a little chat w/phone co. Mon.

RaiderRodney
12-19-2004, 15:53
Originally posted by NetNinja
No the FCC.

I think it's something like 46kb.

and if you are in the boonies dialup just plain sucks.

I can vouch for that. My phone lines are so bad they (the phone company) has to up the voltage to get a dial tone. Therefore I have fried a couple of modems :( I went to a wireless provider now, thank God, about 500k download with ping under 100 ;f

jhall
12-22-2004, 02:41
just from reading this thread, I decided to give this shotgunning technique a try.

Installed a second modem in my comp, and hooked up the second line which was already ran to the room, and suprisingly I can connect both modems at the same time. My ISP is Cox Communications btw.

But only one of the connection icons in the sys tray ever shows activity.

It does seem to be able to surf faster, but Im not for sure. I can only get a 28.8 connection anyway on each line..:(

So how can I tell if its actually using both modems?

fastvfr
12-22-2004, 17:26
Originally posted by jhall
just from reading this thread, I decided to give this shotgunning technique a try.

Installed a second modem in my comp, and hooked up the second line which was already ran to the room, and suprisingly I can connect both modems at the same time. My ISP is Cox Communications btw.

But only one of the connection icons in the sys tray ever shows activity.

It does seem to be able to surf faster, but Im not for sure. I can only get a 28.8 connection anyway on each line..:(

So how can I tell if its actually using both modems?

Go to PCPitstop and run their Bandwidth Speed Test.

Here is the link to the page. (http://www.pcpitstop.com/internet/default.asp)

Try the DL test with only one modem online, and then try it with both.

BTW, all the settings for the dialer and DNS must be the same in both for this to work properly.

Good luck!