How Many Rounds Do SIGs Need To Break In?

[RAH]

How many rounds should you put through a SIG before the break in period is over? My buddy bought a NIB P239 and he was told it needs a 500 rounds break in. He fired 400 rounds and had one failure to feed. The guy at the shop said it's normal. Does this sound right?

[CCV]

It doesn't sound right to me. But, what do I know?

[feetpiece]

Read this...

10 Grand SIG! 10,000 Round Report (http://www.galleryofguns.com/ShootingTimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=1230)

After 10,000 rounds, it wouldn’t be unusual for a shooter to expect a pistol to suffer a slight accuracy deterioration. That’s what Wiley expected, but that’s not what he found. The bottom line: 10,000 rounds merely breaks in the SIG.

[wanderinwalker]

My vote would be just clean it well, take it and shoot it some more. Well, alot more actually, but that is just me. Guns fail, just like your car, computer, pen, watch battery, etc. Fact of life.

Point: I have a Glock 17 that choked once out of 150 rounds last time it was out. Many here would have you believe this to be unacceptable. However, I was using reloads that are not much above minimum power requirements for the Glock, shooting one-handed with my weak-hand, late into the session and firing fast. In this context the failure means I need to practice more (again) and strengthen my weak-hand shooting. No big deal. Clear it and move on.

Point 2: My recently acquired S&W 629-1 6" .44 Magnum tied up on the first range trip after 3 dozen rounds. It was purchased used but it looked unfired (and likely was). The ejector rod came loose, unscrewed and the cylinder would not open. Did I take the gun back proclaiming that it is a piece of junk? No, I fixed the problem and plan on firing it some more in a few days.

Just shoot and practice. Failures will happen. The more you shoot, the stranger things you will see. If you want to see things get really strange, take up reloading. THAT can produce interesting situations. (Ask my shooting buddies about my OLD low-power 9mm loads. Very few of them had the grip strength to make the Glock function properly.)

[DAVE RICHARDS]

The only "break in" any of my Sigs has ever needed is the break in the trigger when the hammer releases. Seriously all have been 100% from the box. Sigs are seriously excellent weapons.

[Yo]

Zero.
- - -
One failure to feed in 400 rounds can happen in any gun. Maybe he limpwristed it, maybe the round had a burr on the casemouth, maybe the mag wasn't seated 100% (very common range error).

Just clean it, lube it correctly and shoot it. My 226 is the only semi-auto handgun I own that has never had a single failure in over 4000 rounds.

Kimbers do need break-in, but there's a reason for that--it's called poor final fit and finishing.

[Indy_Shooter]

Zero. One of the reasons you pay the extra money for a SIG is that there is no "break in" period. Your SIG should be as reliable the first time you fire it as it will be after round 1000. Or 10,000 for that matter.

[porterfield]

My Sig 225 has functioned flawlessly from the get go . No break in, just 100% reliability.

[quantico]

I have owned many sigs... none have required any break in to be 100 percent. That being said I would not be surprised to maybe have a few issues until you have 500 rounds or so through the gun. Parts still need to wear to each other even in this day and age of cnc machines and the expectation of perfect out of box..

[fastbolt]

Actually, you pay more for a SIGARMS because they think you'll pay it.

It's merely coincidental that SIGARMS has recently dropped their L/E pricing in order to try to be more competitive for L/E contracts. According to a SIGARMS L/E dealer I met at an event, anyway.

But, to the question asked ...

This is a perennial question asked by a lot of people, and receiving about as many different answers as there are people to express them.

I seem to remember reading a NIJ report some time in recent years, and in that report there was a recommendation, if I remember right, that L/E service pistols be fired something like 300 rounds before being placed into service. Yeah, right.

Like all L/E agencies are going to willingly spend the money to fire 300+ rounds through each and every service pistol before it's placed into service. It's easy enough to talk the budget folks into some extra ammunition for transition training, in-service Perishable Skills classes, remediation training or familiarizing and training newhires ... but just to "break in" a gun?

My only recent experience comes from 2 other instructors and I, when we were involved in some test-firing of a couple of NIB SIGARMS P-226 & P-220 pistols. I let each of the other instructors have first use, and each of them experienced a failure-to-feed in their respective pistols, within the first magazine load. These weren't inexperienced shooters, either ... and the P-220 had its failure-to-feed with 230gr FMJ. By the time they ended up in my hands, several magazine loads later, they were doing fine, though.

Now, the variables that firearms manufacturers can't anticipate, or exert any control over? The shooter & the ammunition.

Sometimes new pistols just experience these things, though, and I wouldn't be concerned about it unless it continued, or there was some other symptom or indication of a mechanical problem with the gun or magazine(s).

The last few S&W & Glock pistols I bought simply functioned 100% when I started shooting them. However, I had a 4013TSW that exhibited a single partial failure-to-feed within the first 200-400 rounds. I think I might've limp-wristed it. That was my immediate impression (And yes, you can indeed "limp-wrist" a metal-framed pistol). It's functioned perfectly normally since then ... and I've fired something like more than 3,500 rounds through it, using various factory loads.

Sometimes these things can just happen ...

That's why we train, right?

[Rinspeed]

Zero break in is needed on Sigs. Lots of dry fire will smooth out the trigger nicely though.

Rinspeed

[Dave Frost]

Most manufacturers say that all pistols should be allowed a break-in period. Some say 200 rounds, some say 500 rounds, others name numbers in between.

As I carry a gun on a daily basis as an LEO, I ALWAYS allow each gun I carry (personal purchase and issue) a break-in period to such a point that I am certain of the gun's reliability. I am not really concerned about what the manufacturer recommends. For me, it's not reliable until I feel comfortable with it. Obviously, new-issue duty guns are fired by the individual officer at the range before they are carried on duty.

As a minimum, I would suggest that you not carry any handgun until you have tested it at the range and have fired sufficient numbers of ammunition through it to ensure that it will always function with the ammunition you carry. Be certain to test it with the various brands and weights of ammunition you intent to carry. While it may function with one type of bullet, it may not with another. You should treat the bullets like the gun; never carry anything you haven't tested in your gun.

[Fingolfin]

I bought a Sig and the slide wouldn't lock back sometimes when I got it. It wasn't common but went away completely after the first 500 rounds. The gun has never failed to fire or eject.

[godawful]

i tried pumping somewhere under 1,000 rds thru a sig 226 but it kept stovepiping so i just got rid of it. i used several types of ammo, mostly umc at the time, i never used real expensive stuff. maybe you are expected to blow 20 bucks per box of ammo if you want it to work correctly. i seriously don't understand the sig freaks out there.

[fnfalman]

They don't need any break-in period, but they may need a bit of lubrication to work correctly.

About three weeks ago, I was at the range playing with my revolvers, a guy next to me just bought a bunch of fancy new handguns: SIG P226 stainless, Beretta 92 stainless, Ruger P90 stainless and an M1911A1 of some sort also stainless.

He was cursing at the P226 for jamming on him. So I asked if I may look at the gun. He said that it was brand stankin' new out of the box. I disassembled the gun and took a look at the innards. It was dry as a bone.

A light swipe of Break-Free around the barrel, locking block, and rails. Reassembled and the gun ran just like it's suppose to.

A few minutes later he asked for some lube for the Beretta because it's also malfunctioning. A couple quick squirts around the slide and went the Beretta. At that point, I gave the Ruger and the 1911 a couple of squirts as well.

Don't blame the gun if it doesn't function well without lubrication.

[godawful]

what kind of idiot doesn't lube his new gun? slap the guy and take them for yourself if he's not gonna take care of them.

[Clem Eastwood]

the stainless sigs require a slide grease because there is more friction between the stainless/stainless then the stainless/alloy combo. the only time i had a problem with a sig stovepiping was a range gun i rented. it was a .357 p229 that they did a barrel swap to 9mm. the stock recoil spring was to heavy for the 9mm round. i really like the sigs, they just 'fit' me.

i put 1000 rounds at a time thru my SIGs. one is a p229 and the other is a old sheet slide 226. i usually just lube the slide rails before i go to the range and then proceed to put rounds thru them until the trigger gets too hot to pull. they dont have a problem being dry. all the hoppes is burned off after a few hundred rounds.

[Rinspeed]

i seriously don't understand the sig freaks out there


What's to understand? Sig makes one of the most accurate reliable pistols you can buy for $600 - 700. Just because you happen to find one that needed an adjustment or wasn't maintained right means nothing.

Rinspeed

[Kilroy]

I was issued a NIB Sig 228 for duty carry. I was quite confident in it's reliability right out of the box, so without a warmup or test fire, went right to the qualification course and maxed the course.

Good gun, terrible durability of finish. OMG accurate if one does their part.

[quantico]

Originally posted by fnfalman
They don't need any break-in period, but they may need a bit of lubrication to work correctly.


He was cursing at the P226 for jamming on him. So I asked if I may look at the gun. He said that it was brand stankin' new out of the box. I disassembled the gun and took a look at the innards. It was dry as a bone.

A few minutes later he asked for some lube for the Beretta because it's also malfunctioning. A couple quick squirts around the slide and went the Beretta. At that point, I gave the Ruger and the 1911 a couple of squirts as well.

Don't blame the gun if it doesn't function well without lubrication.

Good point, guns require lube and they will never be as tight as when they are brand new. That is why I recommend cleaning and oiling a new gun before first use. Some guns may require a break in period ... and some will not. I would not consider a gun a problem due to a few minor failures in the first 500 rounds or so.

Funny thing about shooting a gun that is unfired and uncleaned... you sometimes get a loose piece of metal inside that can make a mess of your new pistol. I would rather find those pieces before the gun is firing and parts are moving at high speed.

[Zoggy]

Sounds right to me. My 226 in 40sw had multiple malfunctions with the round not moving up under the extractor and would stop half way into the chamber. It took about 300 rounds but it did go away.

[J.P.]

3 228s
2 226s (357 and 9mm)
2 225s
1 229 (357/40)

Tens of thousands of rounds.
Zero failures. (Unless you count the one squib load in the .40)

[wade farley]

:cool: I have two Sigs, & I have had, only one FTF between them, and that was the Ammo, not the Pistol. Oh, you do need to clean & lube them from time to time! ;z ;z

[Governor]

thousands of rounds through my 226, and never a failure of any kind. I really dont ever clean it either, just some miltec and sometimes some breakfree for lube and protection.

[JinLA]

I'll break in the sig for you!

I'm good at breaking sigs
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=320995
;f ;f ;f

[84S]

I bought my P220 .45 brand new in the box. It failed to extract for the first 400 or so rounds and since then it has been about 100%.

[godawful]

Originally posted by Clem Eastwood
i put 1000 rounds at a time thru my SIGs. one is a p229 and the other is a old sheet slide 226. i usually just lube the slide rails before i go to the range and then proceed to put rounds thru them until the trigger gets too hot to pull. they dont have a problem being dry. all the hoppes is burned off after a few hundred rounds.

ok.. here is a reason i don't believe all the sig hype. does anyone notice anything fishy about this glowing, helium filled quote? is he serious? some of you guys have to be sig employees or something, so i'm gonna start calling B.S. here's why.
how many clips you got for that sig there, cowboy? i have 9 clips for my berettas and when i fire them all consecutively through a single gun, the barrel gets a bit hot, but not the trigger.
so do you have some fellow sig crack-fiends continually loading mags for you as soon as you pop them out so that you can rapid-fire that stupid thing without even trying to aim so that you see if you can heat up the trigger? even if you have 20 mags for it, rapid firing is gonna heat up the barrel, not the trigger and and you are gonna have to take, umm, i dunno, 10 minutes at least to reload those mags? any cool-down taking place while you are loading?
but who knows, maybe you have somewhere in the vicinity of 50 mags for the thing and have them all preloaded before you start. this should be good to hear exactly how this trigger heating occurs.

[RAH]

I don't care whether you believe it or not but I've fired thousands of rounds through SIGs in sweltering heat, freezing temperatures, rain, you name it, and I've only seen a handful of failures. I can't say the same for any other brand. YMMV

[Rinspeed]

ok.. here is a reason i don't believe all the sig hype.


You don't have to believe it, as a matter of fact you don't have to even like Sigs, but professionals around the world use and trust Sigs because they work. Sigs have above average accuracy and reliability as well as good ergonomics. There is no hype, Sigs are the real thing. By the way pistols don't use clips they use mags.

Rinspeed

[Clem Eastwood]

Originally posted by godawful
ok.. here is a reason i don't believe all the sig hype. does anyone notice anything fishy about this glowing, helium filled quote? is he serious? some of you guys have to be sig employees or something, so i'm gonna start calling B.S. here's why.
how many clips you got for that sig there, cowboy? i have 9 clips for my berettas and when i fire them all consecutively through a single gun, the barrel gets a bit hot, but not the trigger.
so do you have some fellow sig crack-fiends continually loading mags for you as soon as you pop them out so that you can rapid-fire that stupid thing without even trying to aim so that you see if you can heat up the trigger? even if you have 20 mags for it, rapid firing is gonna heat up the barrel, not the trigger and and you are gonna have to take, umm, i dunno, 10 minutes at least to reload those mags? any cool-down taking place while you are loading?
but who knows, maybe you have somewhere in the vicinity of 50 mags for the thing and have them all preloaded before you start. this should be good to hear exactly how this trigger heating occurs.

well, actually i usually have my roomate load mags for me. fellow board member jmg and i are going shooting later this week as he's been wanting to see how .357 SIG is in the SIG pistols compared to the glocks. so.....you can take his word or if you are in the DFW area you are more then welcome to come shoot with me. i can get the trigger hot after about 800 rounds of SD type (2 chest, 1 to the head) training with my roomate continuously loading the 5 mags i have for each pistol. i can i can put 800 rounds downrange like that in about 45 minutes. you are more then welcome to come shoot them yourself man. ;Y

[godawful]

i wish i had a roommate like that... reload while i shoot. good one.


another good quote from RAH:
"I don't care whether you believe it or not but I've fired thousands of rounds through SIGs in sweltering heat, freezing temperatures, rain, you name it, and I've only seen a handful of failures. I can't say the same for any other brand."

so one guy shoots until his trigger gets hot while his roomy loads magazines

;I

and another guy who shoots THOUSANDS of rounds in the rain. do you reload the magazines under a tarp? or just let the rain drizzle right into the mag well? or maybe you have a roomy who stands under cover and hands you nice dry reloaded mags? you guys rock.

~2

[Clem Eastwood]

my p226-9 has about 10K thru it and the p229 has over 60K thru it. ive never had a new SIG, my 226 is a 1987 model and the 229 was manufactured in 1992. so they are old and broken in, both are old police guns. my cousin bought a new 229 in 2000 and never had a problem tho. as far as reliability goes i think the sigs and glocks are about the same. once the sigs have some rounds thru them they really dont need as much lube as everyone thinks, unless its a stainless frame gun. those need more lube because of the extra friction of the stainless on stainless slide/frame rails.

[jcj]

I have several SIGs(220,226st40&.357 and 228)..Excellent pistols.It's worth mentioning that they should be completely degreased,then lubed,when new.Only hiccup I ever had was with a bad aftermarket mag in the 220.None of the three required a break in.

[Karaya1]

Besides a 9mm round that was missing a chunk of brass at the neck that didn't feed, my 228 has never had a malfunction.
Just boring reliable.

[45acp4me]

Originally posted by godawful
i tried pumping somewhere under 1,000 rds thru a sig 226 but it kept stovepiping so i just got rid of it. i used several types of ammo, mostly umc at the time, i never used real expensive stuff. maybe you are expected to blow 20 bucks per box of ammo if you want it to work correctly. i seriously don't understand the sig freaks out there.

Sounds like an extractor problem or incorrect recoil spring, Sig should have fixed it for you no questions asked if it was a new gun. They may have even fixed it for free if it was used.

I have shot a few thousand rounds between my P225 and P220. The only failure was a feed failure in the P220 due to a cheap, worn out, used gun show mag.

As for break in? Sig instructs you to clean off all the preservative from the pistol and to lube it properly. No break in should be needed.

Regards,
Glen

[godawful]

after i shot that sig years ago and had all those problems, i pretty much wrote sig off. with all you guys harping on about how good they are maybe i just need to go out and buy another one and give it a chance. maybe i did get a bad one. back then i didnt really know about extractor springs or bent magazine lips or weak mag springs, i just knew that if i pulled the trigger, i wanted a bullet to come out the end of the barrell.
so maybe i'll just start lookin around for a sig to buy. the new shotgun news has some used p228's advertised for 399, i'd be happy to give them ONE more chance. i'll keep checkin for a good price, if anyone knows of a better deal, post it plz.

[45acp4me]

Sig prices:

http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/cdnn/CDNN2004-6.pdf

Warning, it's a 12.7mb file so only click if you have broadband.

The deals start around page 22.

Regards,
Glen

[RAH]

godawful,

You're right, it's all hype posted by SIG employees. SIGs are junk. They're such trash that you better let Brisith SAS and SBS, Dutch Royal Marine Commandos, Navy SEALs and a bunch of other elite units know that their sidearms are trash. While you're at it contact all the elite LE agencies that use SIGs and tell them to get ride of their trash SIGs.;Q

[Clem Eastwood]

Originally posted by godawful
after i shot that sig years ago and had all those problems, i pretty much wrote sig off.

i can completely understand. at one point i had reloaded some .40 for use in my p229. it was FTF like nobodys business with that ammo. i was going to sell the pistol if when i put factory ammo thru it the same thing happened. i put some cheap wolfe ammo thru it and not a failure. so i found out how a little bit of case spread will ruin your day. like i said, id never carry anything that i couldnt put as many rounds as possible thru it without a failure. i completely understand. i think you just got a lemon. all my SIGs have been old police guns and ive never had any trouble. i absolutly love them. FWIW, onpoint firearms has some great deals on certified pre owned SIGs. they come with a 1 year warranty.

[SgtStop]

1986 Edition P-226. Original barrel, 43,000 + rounds downrange and still dead-nuts accurate. The gun fired like a dream out of the box, and hasn't let up or changed!


For those that say that they don't believe that the Sig's trigger can and will get hot... I can vouch for the fact that when practicing failure drills, or aimed rapid fire while practicing for bowling pin matches, the trigger CAN become rather uncomfortably warm.
Yes, I have a "few" magazines. I have 14 factory hi-caps, with another 10 of the DEA 20's for the weapon. My down-time to reload is about 30 minutes if I'm not dicking around.

[Moprine]

Two of the finest handguns I own are both Sigs. I've put thousands of rounds through both 239 and 229 (.40) and have had 0 problems.

I have a 226 in 9mm that I bought used. Since I've had it :about 2000 rounds== 0 malfunctions~~

[blackpanther]

Old sigs no problems.The quality now on new sigs is a gamble,but they have good service.The service dept. needs to take the production and QC people to the wood shed.

Ed

[G22-COP]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING. ITS LIKE A GLOCK TOUGH OUT OF THE BOX!

[tweakmeister]

FYI a relative who bought a couple Israeli 228 leftovers (we're talking thousands of rounds and abuse) just took one out after cleaning all the crap off of it (looks just like the one in the picture).

Said it shot PERFECTLY and noted it was just starting to show signs of being broken in ;)

http://www.hogens.com/pics/sig2a.jpg

[proactive]

Originally posted by tweakmeister
FYI a relative who bought a couple Israeli 228 leftovers (we're talking thousands of rounds and abuse) just took one out after cleaning all the crap off of it (looks just like the one in the picture).

Said it shot PERFECTLY and noted it was just starting to show signs of being broken in ;)

http://www.hogens.com/pics/sig2a.jpg

She looks like the girl you take home from the bar and don't want to tell your friends about. Not exactly easy on the eyes, but gets the job done and feels good in your hands.