.40 Self-defense rounds...

[Aphotic]

180 gr. Speer Gold Dots

vs.

135 gr. Corbon

Please compare and contrast, as the gentleman at the firearm store seemed to heavily favor the 135 gr. Corbon.

Any thoughts?

[RMTactical]

I prefer 165gr Speer Gold Dots, so does the FBI/DEA. Who cares though, really. Either will get the job done, if you will.

Both rounds are great rounds made by great companies.

[bruce21b]

both rounds are good, i prefer a middle weight like the 165 corbon

[AceJ587]

155gr Speer GD's for me.;)

[Coug]

Seattle PD has had excellent results with the 180gr Gold Dot. I have yet to hear of any major PDs using the 135gr loads. I have been unable to find any affordable practice load to duplicate the 135gr loads, there are many availabe for the 180gr loads. I am satisfied with the 180s in general.

-Coug

[Tyr]

Originally posted by GoreLicks
I prefer 165gr Speer Gold Dots.

[hollow10mm]

dam you wanna get flamed, caps and saying good things about extreme shock ammo............

[Tyr]

;z

[MPG1737]

What the heck was that all about?!?!

[MPG1737]

Anyways, I am in agreance with Gorelicks on this one. The 165gr Gold Dot is a superb choice in .40 S&W.

[Newbie 9mm]

180 Gold Dots in my Sig P239, and I just picked up 250 rounds of 165 Ranger for CCW that I am gonna try theu both my 226ST and 239 and switch over. The 180 Golden Sabers also worked nicely, too. Very accurate rounds.

[Cicero]

Originally posted by NEIL HAND
HAVE YOU HEARD OF EXTREME SHOCK FANG FACE ROUNDS?? THEIR THE BEST DEFENCE ROUND YOU CAN BUY FOR ANY HANDGUN GO TO WWW.EXTREMESHOCKUSA.COM AND READ ABOUT THEM.US AIR MARSHALLS ARE NOW CARRING THE EXTREME SHOCK AFR ON USE IN DEFENSE OF TERROREST ATTACKS.I WAS AMAZED AT THE TESTAMONIALS OF ACTUAL SHOOTINGS.I'VE GONE TO LOADING *** MY CARRY GUNS WITH EXTREME SHOCK ROUNDS.I WAS USING 165gr FEDERAL HYDRO SHOCK PERSONAL DEFENSE ROUNDS

Ow. That hurt my eyes just trying to read it. And my brain trying to parse it. Ow.

[Dandapani]

Originally posted by NEIL HAND
HAVE YOU HEARD OF EXTREME SHOCK FANG FACE ROUNDS?? THEIR THE BEST DEFENCE ROUND YOU CAN BUY FOR ANY HANDGUN GO TO WWW.EXTREMESHOCKUSA.COM AND ...

please STOP yelling at us!!!!

[Aphotic]

I asked because I have heard nothing bad about the 165 and 180 gr. Speer Gold Dots.

The 135 gr. Corbon bullets are in use by South Bend and Mishawaka PD as well as St. Joseph County Sheriff's department.

I thought about the Corbon, until my friend reminded me of this (http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2003/12/16/news/region_and_state/326c9cd2b80d702386256dfd007e9471.txt) tragedy. If I remember correctly, the two officers shot the man somewhere between 4 and 8 times, and he still managed to kill both of them.

I re-evaluated my faith in the 135 gr. Corbon after he mentioned it.

[NEIL HAND]

:( ;g ;g ;P ;P ;f ;f

[AceJ587]

Originally posted by Aphotic
I asked because I have heard nothing bad about the 165 and 180 gr. Speer Gold Dots.

The 135 gr. Corbon bullets are in use by South Bend and Mishawaka PD as well as St. Joseph County Sheriff's department.

I thought about the Corbon, until my friend reminded me of this (http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2003/12/16/news/region_and_state/326c9cd2b80d702386256dfd007e9471.txt) tragedy. If I remember correctly, the two officers shot the man somewhere between 4 and 8 times, and he still managed to kill both of them.

I re-evaluated my faith in the 135 gr. Corbon after he mentioned it.

Not familiar with that story, but "poor shot placement" comes to mind. Corbon makes a good bullet, however, I just prefer Gold Dots.

[AceJ587]

Originally posted by NEIL HAND
:( ;g ;g ;P ;P ;f ;f

Your posts are very informative.;Q


BTW: Extreme Shock ammo is a complete joke.

[MarkCO]

First, You are comparing the two extremes of the .40 round. The 135 CorBon is a fast light slug that usually breaks apart on impact. The pressure is high, the recoil impulse is sharp and barrier defeat is marginal (or over-penetration is reduced). The 180 grain Gold Dot is a heavy slow (comparatively) slug that stays together and penetrates well. The pressure is lower, the recoil is more of a push and barrier defeat is excellent (or it may over-penetrate on a frontal shot). You probably could not have chosen two more diverse defense rounds. Some of it will also depend on what pistol you are shooting the ammo in. The Gold Dot is likely a more accurate round and barrel length will affect velocity. The short barreled pistols tend to lose less percentage of velocity with the light fast rounds than with the heavy slow rounds. Since velocity squared impacts energy, the lighter fast rounds will have a significant energy advantage over slow heavy slugs in short barrels.

Second, with all due respect, the “gentleman at the firearms store” likely has little or no knowledge past what he reads in the gun rags. Well studied and researchy type folks who spends tons of time on these types of questions are not in total agreement, but I’d rather listen to well educated folks when it comes to ammo selection than the guy behind the gun shop counter. Also, the profit margins tend to drive what the gun stores push and sell a LOT more than effectiveness.

Last, regardless of actual effectiveness, CorBon, and more directly Peter Pi, is great at marketing. They have long been in the limelight in large part because of this marketing and one must realize that the marketing has a direct effect on the gun stores and what they push and sell.

This article might be of some interest to you as well… http://dfuse.us/g27loadtest.html

[NEIL HAND]

Origin***y posted by MarkCO
First, You are comparing the two extremes of the .40 round. The 135 CorBon is a fast light slug that usu***y breaks apart on impact. The pressure is high, the recoil impulse is sharp and barrier defeat is marginal (or over-penetration is reduced). The 180 grain Gold Dot is a heavy slow (comparatively) slug that stays together and penetrates well. The pressure is lower, the recoil is more of a push and barrier defeat is excellent (or it may over-penetrate on a frontal shot). You probably could not have chosen two more diverse defense rounds. Some of it will also depend on what pistol you are shooting the ammo in. The Gold Dot is likely a more accurate round and barrel length will affect velocity. The short barreled pistols tend to lose less percentage of velocity with the light fast rounds than with the heavy slow rounds. Since velocity squared impacts energy, the lighter fast rounds will have a significant energy advantage over slow heavy slugs in short barrels.

Second, with all due respect, the “gentleman at the firearms store” likely has little or no knowledge past what he reads in the gun rags. Well studied and researchy type folks who spends tons of time on these types of questions are not in total agreement, but I’d rather listen to well educated folks when it comes to ammo selection than the guy behind the gun shop counter. Also, the profit margins tend to drive what the gun stores push and sell a LOT more than effectiveness.

Last, regardless of actual effectiveness, CorBon, and more directly Peter Pi, is great at marketing. They have long been in the limelight in large part because of this marketing and one must realize that the marketing has a direct effect on the gun stores and what they push and sell.

This article might be of some interest to you as well… http://dfuse.us/g27loadtest.html

GOOD ADVISE!INK ON PAPER AND WORDS OF MOUTH CAN BE VERY MISLEADING. DEAD IS DEAD NO MATTER WHAT BRAND OF AMMO AND MORE OFTEN OVER PENETRATION OVER KILLS BEYOND INTENDED TARGET.Q ;Q ;Q ;f ;N ;N ;N ;N

[AceJ587]

BAN^^^

[Sun Kist]

I talked to a friend of mine who is a air marshal last week after I got a 357 sig. They are issued Gold Dot.

[polygonal]

I use the Rem. 165gn. Golden Saber, but Speer is always an excellant choice in any caliber.

[Yamadad]

Winchester Ranger 180 grn. Formerly known as Black Talon. Very well respected in LE circles and good results in the real world.

[nu2carry]

Had a talk with a Glock factory guy after buying my 23 and he said that they strongly recommend 165 and above Gold Dots, Hydra’s any good ammo will keep it happy.

[147 Grain]

180-gr. for best all around performance and stick with Gold Dots, Ranger T's, or Golden Sabers.

[steveinpa]

When I carry I use Federal Hydroshot. But really, lets all be honest If i was coming at you and you hit me with a 22 round I think I would be like"Okay I'm done" If i were on drugs than a Hollow point might make the same effect. Either way when someone gets shot it aint like the movies.....It sucks period no matter what round is used. Exxcept Scerpio dude took a 22lr to the face and was like "You Mudder Fudders" oh yeah the movies again. If anyone of you out there took a 22lr to the face I garuntee you wouldn't even think about what caliber it was.

[G-Bone]

I just ordered 165 Gold Dots from Double Tap!

I preffer mid-weight 40's. I have been carring the 155gr Speer Gold Dot load, but now Double Tap is offering 165 moving at the same 1200fps.

I would say as far as bullets go the Gold Dot is superior over the Sierra 135gr that Corbon uses. The Gold Dot is bonded and does not grag, it is also a delayed expansion, so it goes deep. The Sierra/Corbon is a very fast expander, therefore with it being so light and fast it does not go that deep, about 9-10 inches. Also, it will often frag at close range, not could if you have to shoot through a barrier.

IMHO, Good Luck! ;)

[Gatman]

Originally posted by steveinpa
When I carry I use Federal Hydroshot. But really, lets all be honest If i was coming at you and you hit me with a 22 round I think I would be like"Okay I'm done" If i were on drugs than a Hollow point might make the same effect. Either way when someone gets shot it aint like the movies.....It sucks period no matter what round is used. Exxcept Scerpio dude took a 22lr to the face and was like "You Mudder Fudders" oh yeah the movies again. If anyone of you out there took a 22lr to the face I garuntee you wouldn't even think about what caliber it was.

Its HYDROSHOK! And his name was Serpico. Please check spelling!

[Ian111]

Originally posted by Gatman
Its HYDROSHOK! And his name was Serpico. Please check spelling!


Actually its "HydraShok";b

[gary newport]

Originally posted by steveinpa
When I carry I use Federal Hydroshot. But really, lets all be honest If i was coming at you and you hit me with a 22 round I think I would be like"Okay I'm done" If i were on drugs than a Hollow point might make the same effect. Either way when someone gets shot it aint like the movies.....It sucks period no matter what round is used. Exxcept Scerpio dude took a 22lr to the face and was like "You Mudder Fudders" oh yeah the movies again. If anyone of you out there took a 22lr to the face I garuntee you wouldn't even think about what caliber it was.

How about taking a 9mm to the face--specifically, to the teeth--and continuing the mission? Can't happen? It did--not to me--in Iraq. I'm going to start a new thread, probably called "Caliber Wars: Episode 7,001" in the Caliber Corner about the incident. Watch for it.

[.40CALJHP]

Originally posted by MPG1737
Anyways, I am in agreance with Gorelicks on this one. The 165gr Gold Dot is a superb choice in .40 S&W. ^6

[cactusman]

Cast another vote for the 165-grain Speer Gold Dot. :)

[big68]

Winchester 165grn "T" series, Winchester 165grn Ranger Law Enforcemant Ammo and Double Tap 165grn Gold Dot

[JBE]

Originally posted by big68
Winchester 165grn "T" series, Winchester 165grn Ranger Law Enforcemant Ammo and Double Tap 165grn Gold Dot

But who's got Winchester 165 grn Ranger LE Ammo for sale?

[big68]

Bob's Gun Rack in Lee's Summit Missouri, is where I bought mine (Winchester Ranger). I guess that only select Gun stores carry it for LEO but this one will sell it to the public.

[dano1427]

I prefer the 165gr midweights, mainly due to experience shooting with them.

Issued load is a 165Gr Winchester Partition Gold HP, and it is accuarte, reliable and has a good track record.

Offduty I'm using 165gr Golden Sabers. ALso accurate and reliable.

[J.P.]

the ranger 165gr looks like a winner!
Check out my expansion tests in this forum.
I'll be testing more of the brands/weights listed above as time and money allows.

[RIPPED]

Originally posted by JBE
But who's got Winchester 165 grn Ranger LE Ammo for sale? pm me.. lets talk.. :)

[RIPPED]

Ok.. question for the masses.. what if any experience has any of you had with MAG SAFE? I have heard its a pretty evil lil .40 load to carry. So i have been staggering my mags with those and Ranger.

magsafe:::

.40 S&W #40D Defender 84 1,800fps/604fpe-Glock 22 Light recoil.
.40 S&W #40 SWAT Load 46 2,100fps/451fpe-Glock 22 Lightest recoil!

i carry the SWAT load myself.
here the link to the specs..
http://yp.bellsouth.com/sites/magsafeammo/
ive never had to use it myself.. "thankfully" and juts wondered if anyone had seen or heard of any other ballistics on it.

[New York Hunter]

I carry Federal's 155 gr. Hydra-Shok in my Glock 22.

[BoilerPKP]

Originally posted by RIPPED
Ok.. question for the masses.. what if any experience has any of you had with MAG SAFE? I have heard its a pretty evil lil .40 load to carry. So i have been staggering my mags with those and Ranger.

magsafe:::

.40 S&W #40D Defender 84 1,800fps/604fpe-Glock 22 Light recoil.
.40 S&W #40 SWAT Load 46 2,100fps/451fpe-Glock 22 Lightest recoil!

i carry the SWAT load myself.
here the link to the specs..
http://yp.bellsouth.com/sites/magsafeammo/
ive never had to use it myself.. "thankfully" and juts wondered if anyone had seen or heard of any other ballistics on it.

Can the stock internals of the .40 Glock withstand those kinds of loads? Those seem unusually hot... but I love it! I was just looking at the Mini-Glock Load at 1,940fps/601 ft-lbs in Glock M27. ;P

[J.P.]

Originally posted by RIPPED
i have been staggering my mags with those and Ranger.

Must do wonders for your accuracy.

[RIPPED]

well. quite honestly.. if im going to bother to pull it out and use it.. it WILL be within 10-15 feet.. otherwise the law would say it would be an unjustified killing.. I dont fire these rounds at the range, naturally since magsafe is retailing at 18.00 for 6 rounds.

[Braden]

I assume you've at least fired a couple hundred of them through your gun to make sure they'll feed and fire the way they're supposed to, right??

[spcwes]

The Double Tap, Georgia Arms ammo is hot and they make several loads designed for fully supported chambers not Glocks so make sure you ask questions. The Magsafe and the RCBD or what ever it is called seems like it would do real well on paper but I think in a area where it is cold and people wear heavy clothing you may have failures. And yes they are safe to fire from Glocks. They do not have increased pressures due to bullet weight. Corbon has good ammo but again it could be exactly what was mentioned early on in the string, a market scheme. I carry the 155gr ammo and up mostly the ranger T series and the Gold Dot due to the bullet performance staying consistent from short to long barreled weapons. That is the way the bullets are designed. They are supposed to expand the same from a Glock 23 as a Glock 35. I would say stay with good quality Hollow Points and make sure you can afford to practice with the ammo or alike ammo that you intend on carrying. Also I am in LE and have family in the Federal LE, one in the Secrete Service and one as an Air Marshall and they Air Marshall carry designer ammo that resembles Glaser Safety slugs, not Gold Dots. I have been told that if they carry anything else that they will be held liable. ~2

[J.P.]

Originally posted by spcwes
Also I am in LE and have family in the Federal LE, one in the Secrete Service and one as an Air Marshall and they Air Marshall carry designer ammo that resembles Glaser Safety slugs, not Gold Dots. I have been told that if they carry anything else that they will be held liable. ~2

Held liable for what?

[RIPPED]

Originally posted by Braden
I assume you've at least fired a couple hundred of them through your gun to make sure they'll feed and fire the way they're supposed to, right??

negative ghostrider. 10 down the hole is enough to make me feel comfy in using day 2 day. they retail for 19 bucks per 6 .. do i pay that.. No.. do i pay retail for any ammo.. Ummm No.

[spcwes]

Liable for collateral damage or the plane crashing, I don't know all the specifics of the matter just what my Brother told me. Gold Dots from a 357 Sig, which is what they are using in a Glock 32 or a Sig 229, could very easily penetrate a person and hit another or possible cause damage to the plane. I have no clue about planes and what the damage might do but I would not want to be the guy that used a bullet he was not supposed to and the plane crashed or I killed an innocent with a pass through.

:cool:

[SlammedDime]

Originally posted by spcwes
Liable for collateral damage or the plane crashing, I don't know all the specifics of the matter just what my Brother told me. Gold Dots from a 357 Sig, which is what they are using in a Glock 32 or a Sig 229, could very easily penetrate a person and hit another or possible cause damage to the plane. I have no clue about planes and what the damage might do but I would not want to be the guy that used a bullet he was not supposed to and the plane crashed or I killed an innocent with a pass through.

:cool: Mythbuster's proved a single bullet in the cabin of a plane would not destroy it or bring it down :)

[spcwes]

Like I said, know nothing about planes. I know that a jacketed hollow point .357 sig has a lot of penetration and will more than likely come out of a bad guy shot with it and I am sure that if mythbusters know a plane will not come down with a single shot then the FAA does as well. They picked the round for there reason's. Just know they picked it. I do know that anything and everything can and does go wrong in gunfights and there may be a bunch of rounds fired from both sides.

[Braden]

Originally posted by RIPPED
negative ghostrider. 10 down the hole is enough to make me feel comfy in using day 2 day. they retail for 19 bucks per 6 .. do i pay that.. No.. do i pay retail for any ammo.. Ummm No.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable trusting my life to ammo I've only shot 10 rounds of. I'd want at least 15. ;)

Ghostrider out. ;f