Toughest most reliable 1911 for first time buyer?

[MPG1737]

I am interested in purchasing a 1911 for $1000.00 or less. My requirements are a 5 inch barrel, stainless, reliable with hollowpoints, and durability. Any experienced opinions would be appreciated.

[CCV]

Based on your criteria I'd take a hard look at the new Smith & Wesson's.

[paul45]

Colt,Smith and Wesson,Springfield,Kimber,Para,Dan Wesson,Sig....not necessarily in that order and not exclusive to those I listed.

[Short Cut]

If you frequent these boards for any length of time you'll see the question arise time and again, what do you recommend? When the inquirer has a budget under a grand I always recommend Kimber.

My TLE/RL has probably been feeling a little left out recently. With a few nice Baers and high end Springfields sharing the gun safe with it the TLE/RL hasn't been shot for awhile.

Last week I had time for a quick hit and run at an indoor range and decided the TLE needed some excercise. I put 200 rounds of Federal American Eagle downrange in a hurry without a hiccup. Without time to clean the gun I tucked it away until I was able to shoot it again today.

Today I piled 400 rounds of S&B ball through the gun. I had 200 rounds loaded in mags and blazed through it rapid firing in such a hurry I didn't realize I hadn't even lubed the rails before shooting. The Kimber didn't care. It worked like a trooper. For the next two hundred I put a drop of oil in each rail and wiped one on the barrel.

The next two hundred rounds were all shot from the holster. Weak hand, strong hand, from retention, singles, doubles, triples - it didn't matter the gun was infalible. Not only was it working perfectly it was grouping really nicely too. I figured I'd push the target back to 25 yards to see what kind of groups we could make and pulled the target back feeling very pleased to find the two groups were each smaller than a baseball.

For strict bullseye shooting the Baers and TGO1 hold a slight advantage, but for all forms of practical shooting and combat style shooting the TLE/RL gave up nothing to it's pricier safe mates at half the price. Considering I paid $799 for this gun I consider it one heck of great value and will continue to recommend it highly to anyone that is shopping in this price range.

[MPG1737]

Is the S&W sc 1911 more costly than my criteria? Also, does Kimber have an all steel frame tactical model? The one I looked at had an aluminum frame. I liked the looks of the Kimber more, but reliability is of course most important. Are these guns at home shooting +P ammunition?

[DN1911]

you should easily be able to get into a S&W 5" for under a grand. i think the target models are in the low 800's and fixed sight models in the 7's. they are also a full stainless gun the can handle anything you feed it.

i wouldn't feed the Kimber aluminum guns +P very often.

[Short Cut]

Originally posted by MPG1737
Is the S&W sc 1911 more costly than my criteria?

The S&W 1911Sc usually goes for around mid 7-800 although yesterday I handled a brand new one that is on sale for $649. Prior to that the best price I had seen was $714 from http://www.onpointfirearms.com/handguns/sw.htm

The closest thing to a steel framed Kimber Tactical would be the TLE. It's features are nearly identical, but it doesn't have an extended magwell. It's available in black or stainless. No problems shooting +P out of this pistol. However if I were going to give the gun a steady diet of it I would also install a heavier than stock recoil spring.

IMHO though a 5" 1911 doesn't need +P ammo to serve as a defensive pistol. Not sure that's what you're going to use it for though either.

clic pic

http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/customtle_II.jpg (http://www.kimberamerica.com/custom.php)

[MPG1737]

This gun is a special treat to myself. I want a "pet" gun that I can customize, and mold to my liking. I have already started looking at grip panels...

[cactusman]

Colt XSE
If you decide to add anything to it, go with a Colt -- many gunsmiths won't touch a non-Colt 1911.

[Short Cut]

Originally posted by MPG1737
This gun is a special treat to myself. I want a "pet" gun that I can customize, and mold to my liking. I have already started looking at grip panels...

Beware! It's VERY difficult to just own one 1911. You have been warned! ;?

[Short Cut]

Originally posted by cactusman
Colt XSE
If you decide to add anything to it, go with a Colt -- many gunsmiths won't touch a non-Colt 1911.

On the other hand if you don't buy a Colt 1911 the chances are you won't need a gunsmith. `l ^3

[infinitecolt]

Buy a Colt and Norinco. They are both excellent guns. Try the STI Trojans, they are also good. It's your budget, it's your preference and it's your call.

[Robert McLeod]

I would go with a Colt Series 70 reproduction, you will truely have a blank canvas that you will be able to modify to your specs. Buy it, take it out and shoot it a few times, decide what YOU want done to it. Take it to a reliable smith and have the work done. You will have a much classier gun then any of the "production customs."

If this will be your first 1911 it will be a keeper, Colts are keepers. It will not have a firing pin safety that you will have to worry about when you detail strip it. You can acutually detail strip one using the parts that are on the gun. Try that with your Series II Kimber.

[cole]

Originally posted by MPG1737
I am interested in purchasing a 1911 for $1000.00 or less. My requirements are a 5 inch barrel, stainless, reliable with hollowpoints, and durability. Any experienced opinions would be appreciated.

Our Kimber Stainless Target 2 has been flawless. Would prefer a Series 1, but this Kimber has feeds anything (incl. 230gr Gold Dots) and will easily shoot tennis ball-sized groups at 20yds.

As it's for target use, I rarely shoot rapid fire or double-taps, so cannot attest to reliability here. Use Wilson 47D mags, though the Kimber 7rd mag has been flawless, as well.

Paid $625 LNIB. Very pleased thus far.

[Wolfgang]

If you don't get a Colt, I would strongly suggest a Springfield SS Mil spec. You get a basic gun with ok sights, lowered and flared ejection port, (throated?) barrel and beveled magwell. Shoot it 500 to 1,000 rounds. You should get this for around $550 leaving $$ for ammo. After 500 rounds, you can decide what you "want" to change. Most likely you won't "need" to change anything. However, it will be your choice. If there is a problem with the gun, SA will fix it.

Many smiths are using them as base guns now. I recently got the basic GI mil spec and with the first 500 rounds, problems are minimal. It doesn't come with sights...;f (well almost no sights)


PS: you may want to change the MSH since some don't like the locking system. You avoid the Kimber II safety, the Colt 80 safety, and the other safeties others use...Sig, and Smith for example.

[CANAVAR]

I agree. If you want a gun that you're going to modify and you don't get a Colt then you may want to go with a Springfield Loaded model. The Loaded models give you some nice bells and whistles until decide what other mods you want. Nothing against Kimber, I have three of them. It's just for modification purposes you're better off with a Springfield. Now if you decide that you're not going to modify, Kimber is probably the best production gun that yo could buy in that price range.

[Nestor]

Ideas from me...

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/userimages/108286_large.jpg

$1,029.00
Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 8+1
Barrel Length: 5"
Front Sight: Black Blade White Dot
Rear Sight: Novak Lo Mount Carry
Firing System: N/A
Grip: Checkered Rosewood
Trigger: N/A
Hammer: N/A
External Safety: N/A
Frame: Large
Finish: Blue/Black
Overall length: N/A
Material: Scandium Frame, Carbon Steel Slide
Weight Empty: 29.5 ounces


http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/userimages/108285_large.jpg

$960.00
Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 8+1
Barrel Length: 5"
Front Sight: Black Blade White Dot
Rear Sight: Novak Lo Mount Carry
Firing System: N/A
Grip: Checkered Walnut with Silver Medallions
Trigger: Aluminum Match with Overtravel Stop
Hammer: N/A
External Safety: N/A
Frame: Large
Finish: Blue/Black
Overall length: N/A
Material: Carbon Steel
Weight Empty: 38.5 ounces

:)

[RattlerXX]

If you want one that you can customize to "your" liking, and the price mentioned, I would go with either a brand new Colt Series 70, Colt Series 80 1991A1 or a Springfield Mil Spec 1911A1. My first choice would be the new Series 70. My .02 cents!

[RattlerXX]

For the record, I have a couple of each of these models mentioned, (besides the new Series 70) and they work and shoot excellent. I had no problem getting work done on them from a good smith either.

[Nestor]

Check this one too:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/gunsite_gsp.htm

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/pix/Scott-gunsite-3.jpg

Gunsite Service Pistol for $995

:cool:

[MrMurphy]

Kimber TLE/RL (the LAPD SWAT gun)

Kimber Warrior (Marine Specops gun)

Colt Gunsite.

Springfield Operator.


Any of these'll do.

And if they have JHP problems, (they shouldn't) feed them Corbon Pow'rBall, which expands well and feeds like ball.

[1holegrouper]

STI Trojan

[GlockShmock]

If I didn't already have a Kimber TLEll I would seriously consider those Smiths in Nestor's post....nice looking guns and have heard great things about them....of course, the beauty shots are from the right side....a lot of people, myself included are a little put off by the billboard writing on the left side...I really like that blue/black finish in the first pic...very unique.

[cole]

Originally posted by GlockShmock
If I didn't already have a Kimber TLEll I would seriously consider those Smiths in Nestor's post....nice looking guns and have heard great things about them....of course, the beauty shots are from the right side....a lot of people, myself included are a little put off by the billboard writing on the left side...I really like that blue/black finish in the first pic...very unique.

The Smith has an external extractor and firing pin safety per the Smith brochure, just like the newest Series 2.

Are 1911 traditionalist more put off by
1) the external extractor or
2) the firing pin safety?

[Robert McLeod]

Originally posted by cole
The Smith has an external extractor and firing pin safety per the Smith brochure, just like the newest Series 2.

Are 1911 traditionalist more put off by
1) the external extractor or
2) the firing pin safety?

Both of them are answers to problems that do not exist. The only thing they truly accomplish is complicating detail stripping.

[RattlerXX]

I couldn't agree more!

[dale taylor]

I'm late, but I am very happy with my Kimber Series 1 SS Compact. No FTF of any kind. Bought it used for $475 plus tax. I have no desure for any modifcations. I have replaced the springs. I had trouble with Series 70. My favorite gun is a S&W Mod 52-2. Buy used with priviledge to shoot it and return it. daleltaylor@att.net

[quantico]

Originally posted by cole


Are 1911 traditionalist more put off by
1) the external extractor or
2) the firing pin safety?


Yes , Yes ... don't forget to include gawdy graphics...

[quantico]

For 1000 dollars I would consider the Kimber TLE I I , but the external extractor can have issues... I don't like the graphics and external extractor on the S&W guns... I like more traditional 1911's with less parts ... the series I kimbers are goood choices.. and the colt gunsite pistol would also be of interest to me. STI makes excellent 1911's and they would be my first stop in this price range.

[Rinspeed]

I will second the STI Trojan.

[cowpuncher/pi]

Here is some links www.signaturegrade.com . Go to the articles section. www.nowlinguns.com . They are higher than what you are looking for. But, they are making a dang interesting Commander 9x23.
The Kimber 25th anniversary Pistol with VZ grips would be my choice. I would put in a HD caspian extractor at some point.
Gunsite Caspian, Springfield Mil-Spec, Norinco, S&W, would be good too. Look for one with good frame to slide fit. Check to see if there is little to no movement when pressing down on the barrel hood. Most factory barrels will be ok for general carry. You can always change parts later. Regards

[cowpuncher/pi]

Nestor,
Just a heads up. The link to Gunsite pistol is to one they don't make anymore. You might find a used one somewhere. I have one of the last they made. Paid 1350.00. Made on a Springfield base. Dang good heater. Mr. Yost is no longer at Gunsite. www.yost-bonitz.com Regards Sir.

[Nestor]

Originally posted by cowpuncher/pi
Nestor,
Just a heads up. The link to Gunsite pistol is to one they don't make anymore. You might find a used one somewhere. I have one of the last they made. Paid 1350.00. Made on a Springfield base. Dang good heater. Mr. Yost is no longer at Gunsite. www.yost-bonitz.com Regards Sir.

Thank you, *1 is looking rock solid. However in this price range(1500-1700$) I will take this gun:

http://www.lesbaer.com/images/con6.jpg

Baer 1911 Concept VI©

0.02 :)

[Mark IV]

Originally posted by cowpuncher/pi
Here is some links www.signaturegrade.com . Go to the articles section.

Just be sure to check back often, it seems the "best" pistol out there changes every few weeks.

[Bill73]

Personal choice still drives our economy.

[cowpuncher/pi]

So true. Some love the too tight Baer. Then will spend 500.00 in ammo to finish the frame to slide fit that should have been done at the factory. IMHO of course. Regards

[Shark]

Originally posted by cowpuncher/pi
So true. Some love the too tight Baer. Then will spend 500.00 in ammo to finish the frame to slide fit that should have been done at the factory. IMHO of course. Regards

Um, your logic is pretty flawed. Most people would agree that putting 500rds through any new 1911 to break it in is a must. Heck, even Kimber tells you to do this and they are not by any means tight like a Baer. If you are just pumping 500 rounds down range to break it in as fast as you can and not practicing as you would in any other range session is a waste of ammo and money, but it has nothing to do with the gun. Personally, I wouldn't trust any new gun until I had at least 1500 rounds through it. My Kimber TLE/RL did not begin to develop problems until after about 900 rounds. My Baer, on the other had had a few hick-ups the first 100 rounds but has not missed a beat since putting 1900 more through it. At least 500 of those rounds were fired in one day, without cleaning during a tactical pistol class. During my normal range sessions, but put around 300rds down range. I was skeptical about the tightness at first, but the gun has proven my doubts to be wrong.

To the original poster: If you think you are going to customize your gun, then I agree with a previous poster that the Colt Series 70 reissue is the way to go. Unlike SA and Kimber, the internals are tool steel and would not need to be chucked.

Skip the Kimber unless you can find one with an internal extractor (i.e. the 25th Ann. or Warrior models). I had to put some money into the Kimber to get it running right. Even after having this work done, I still don't trust the external extractor at this point.

Springfields are hit or miss, I ended up getting a dog of a gun from SA as my first 1911. If I could have done it over again I would have just got the Baer TRS as my first 1911.

+1 on checking out Hilton Yam's website. He is a top-notch 1911 smith and should give you a good idea what works out of the box and what is a good base gun to customize. Here is a more direct link http://www.signaturegrade.com/sg/articles.html

Edit - Oh, and if you are going to a lot of custom work beyond changing the grips, then you should go with a Carbon Steel gun over stainless steel. If you are concerned with durability, then you can get it hard chromed. The finish will wear better than stainless and won't peen.

[Rinspeed]

Originally posted by cowpuncher/pi
So true. Some love the too tight Baer. Then will spend 500.00 in ammo to finish the frame to slide fit that should have been done at the factory. IMHO of course. Regards


Obviously you don't own a Baer or have ever shot one. Les Baer pistols are tight but they are also very reliable. You can spend $1600 on a 1911 that has zero hand fitting on the slide to frame.
I'll take a 1911 that is tight any day as long as it's reliable.

Rinspeed

[Robert McLeod]

Originally posted by Shark
To the original poster: If you think you are going to customize your gun, then I agree with a previous poster that the Colt Series 70 reissue is the way to go. Unlike SA and Kimber, the internals are tool steel and would not need to be chucked.



Actually, as much as I do love the Colts there are some MIM parts in them. The sear, mag catch, disconector and plunger tube are all MIM. The thumb and grip safety are cast. Hammer, all pins, bbl link, bbl bushing, trigger finger piece, ejector, firing pin, firing pin stop and extractor are all machined from bar stock. The frame, slide, barrel and slide stop are all forged.

This is direct from one of the men at Colt.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=33394

[THELimey]

I would start out with a nice Colt,Kimber,Springfield or Smith and Wesson at a good price from your local 1911 'pusher' a case or two of ammo and shoot the bejesus out of it.Return to your pusher purchase another and repeat often like most of us here you will then end up on opinions on em all because you own em all (or have done).
Its the start of a raggedy path to glory and destitution (Laughs!!) on the way you will become intimately familier with the anxiety of the years long waits for customizing and drooling over artistry in carbon steel that costs more than the first two cars you bought combined.Obsessing on "full Custom" or "Partial Customs" buying a Brand new gun and promptly exchanging every part in it and then sending it to Virgil Tripp or Walter Birdsong for a refin.Do not forget the inevitable draw full of expensive leather to compliment your new obsession and many months of wait for the UPS man to deliver your latest DelFatti or Alessi holsters and amassing bags full of Wilson 47D's cos they were less than $20 on ebay or in the Want adds and 'you can never have enough'.........;c

[Nestor]

Originally posted by cowpuncher/pi
So true. Some love the too tight Baer. Then will spend 500.00 in ammo to finish the frame to slide fit that should have been done at the factory. IMHO of course. Regards

:) we can always shot together, even if we have a different guns :)

All the best friend,

Adam

ps. I really like the *1, especially basic model...

[cowpuncher/pi]

Nestor my man. These are worth a look. www.nighthawkcustom.com . They seem to want to build you a pistol with any option you want. Enjoy.

[quantico]

Originally posted by Shark
Most people would agree that putting 500rds through any new 1911 to break it in is a must.

Personally, I wouldn't trust any new gun until I had at least 1500 rounds through it. My Kimber TLE/RL did not begin to develop problems until after about 900 rounds. My Baer, on the other had had a few hick-ups the first 100 rounds but has not missed a beat since putting 1900 more through it. I was skeptical about the tightness at first, but the gun has proven my doubts to be wrong.



I would agree that I will not trust any gun until I have some time and rounds through it... Part of that time is getting me used to the gun and how it fits and feels.... part is getting the gun tested with known ammo... and part is getting all the parts seated in and wearing where they will function correctly for a long time.

I have never owned a Baer... and therefore I can't say too much about starting with a pistol that tight... I hope to have the chance to own one soon... and then I will know if the guns are too tight... or just right...

[quantico]

Originally posted by cowpuncher/pi
Nestor my man. These are worth a look. www.nighthawkcustom.com . They seem to want to build you a pistol with any option you want. Enjoy.

I am looking into nighthawk.... I don't know anyone that has one either as a shop... or locally... I would love to see one in person. Do you have any experience with the pistols ???

[Nestor]

Originally posted by cowpuncher/pi
Nestor my man. These are worth a look. www.nighthawkcustom.com . They seem to want to build you a pistol with any option you want. Enjoy.

:)

[Robert McLeod]

Originally posted by quantico
I am looking into nighthawk.... I don't know anyone that has one either as a shop... or locally... I would love to see one in person. Do you have any experience with the pistols ???

I have no experience with them, the only thing I really do know is that STI builds their frames and maybe their slides. The other thing is that all of the guys used to work for Wilson Combat, some of them for over twenty years. So you know there is a lot of experience behind all of the guns. I would be curious as to what happened to make all of them quit and set up their own shop though.

[THELimey]

what happened to make all of them quit and set up their own shop though


$$$$$$$$$$$$$;)

[ppcrusa]

SW 1911.
It just plain works. OUT OF THE BOX. No stupid trips back to the factory necessary like with other brands of 1911's I tried.
Put the money down for the plain SW1911. It comes ready to rock from the factory, while allowing you to "customize" it some. The only thing you really can't experiment with is extractors. The rest is open season for replacement if you so desire. But I tell you from experience, once you shoot it you will see it needs nothing more than cleaning..

[bulm540]

Originally posted by Rinspeed
I will second the STI Trojan.
Ditto on the Trojan.

[bulm540]

Originally posted by ppcrusa
SW 1911.
It just plain works. OUT OF THE BOX. No stupid trips back to the factory necessary like with other brands of 1911's I tried.
Put the money down for the plain SW1911. It comes ready to rock from the factory, while allowing you to "customize" it some. The only thing you really can't experiment with is extractors. The rest is open season for replacement if you so desire. But I tell you from experience, once you shoot it you will see it needs nothing more than cleaning..
What about the recall??? Didn't you have to ship your S&W back to the Factory??

[ppcrusa]

Originally posted by bulm540
What about the recall??? Didn't you have to ship your S&W back to the Factory??

Nope. Mine is not affected by a recall. Like I said, no issues here. First pistol I have bought in a long time without any.