Here are official gelatin results for all of the DoubleTap loads! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MCNETT
01-27-2005, 00:36
All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.

DoubleTap 9mm+P
115gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1415fps - 12.00" / .70"
124gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1310fps - 13.25" / .70"
147gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.00" / .66"

DoubleTap .40 S&W Penetration / expansion
135gr. Nosler JHP @ 1375fps - 12.10" / .72"
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1275fps - 13.00" / .76"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1200fps - 14.0" / .70"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1100fps - 14.75" / .68"
200gr XTP @ 1050fps - 17.75" / .59"


DoubleTap .357 Sig
115gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1550fps - 12.25" / .71"
125gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1450fps - 14.5" / .66"
147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1250fps - 14.75" / .73"

DoubleTap .357 Magnum
125gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1600fps - 12.75" / .69"
158gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 19.0" .56"

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
180gr XTP @ 1350fps 17.25 / .77
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96"
200gr XTP @ 1250fps - 19.5" / .72"
230gr Equalizer @ 1040fps - 11.0" and 17.0" / .62" and .40"

DoubleTap .45ACP
185gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1225fps - 12.75" / .82"
200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.25" / .88"
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"

DoubleTap 9X25
115gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1800fps - 10.0" / .64" frag nasty
125gr Gold DOt JHP @ 1725fps - 15.0" / .74"
147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1550fps - 17.5" / .68"

For those who are asking, here it is!
-Mike

hollow10mm
01-27-2005, 01:32
now if iam shooting the 10mm loads like the 165 grain gold dot out of the g-29 can i expect a little less expansion and a little more penitration? is that the norm?

coltrane679
01-27-2005, 02:01
Good stuff, Mike!

Quick question--are you still planning some .450SMC (aka .45 Super) loads? They would be sweet out of my S&W 625.

agtman
01-27-2005, 11:26
Mike: GREAT information and a big "thank you" for all the time and work you put into producing it! ;c

Tazz10mm: I'd ask that this thread get a sticky pronto, since it contains answers to penetration & expansion questions that get asked regularly here and on Caliber Corner about Double Tap Ammo, in particular the 10mm loads.

Plus, because Mike used the scientifically-accepted test media for developing the penetration & expansion data on DT 10mm ammo, it secondarily provides valid documentation pertaining to the issue of "overpenetration" when using DT's full-power 10mm HPs - those specifically designed and intended for defensive use against human assailants (i.e., the Nosler, Golden Saber and Gold Dot HP loads).

Thanks again, Mike! :cool:

MCNETT
01-27-2005, 12:42
From a G29 the 165gr GSHP went 15.0" and showed expansion to .84" The petals were folded further back on the bullet fired from the G20.
-Mike

kestrou
01-27-2005, 13:38
Excellent! ;f

kestrou

hollow10mm
01-27-2005, 17:06
so would the 165 GD expand to like 1.0 and penitrate a little farther out of a g-29? i think iam gonna have to go with 165 GD.

i vote for sticky as everyone always wants this info.

a1b2c3
01-27-2005, 17:16
Information much appreciated. Those results are better than I expected and why I carry your 10mm ammo on-duty.

maximum
01-27-2005, 18:10
Mike, do you have any penetration results for the 200 gr BTB @1400 FPS?

Brasso
01-27-2005, 19:11
I hope all the .45 is King crowd doesn't see this. There might be a DT 10mm ammo shortage.;f

hollow10mm
01-27-2005, 21:25
the 230 grain GD out performs all minimum requirments for Hand gun cartridges for S/D it more than doubles its size and penitrates 3.25 inches past what is considered "atequite". with that being said iam going to use 165 grain GD in my g-29 it will expand to 1.0 and penitrate 15.5 inches, but it takes a LITTLE longer to open up out of a g-29 compared to g-20

bac1023
01-27-2005, 22:26
This data is the reason I carry the 135gr load. It should deposit most or all of its energy in the BG without overpenetration.

nickE10mm
01-27-2005, 23:13
Originally posted by maximum
Mike, do you have any penetration results for the 200 gr BTB @1400 FPS?

i'll second that question!

mark77418
01-28-2005, 10:37
These results are very impressive. The 200 grain XTP penetrated 19.5 inches. I think that is what I will use for carrying in the woods in my G20. Do you guys think that would be a good choice or do you think the 180 grain gold dot is better?

kestrou
01-28-2005, 11:13
Originally posted by bac1023
This data is the reason I carry the 135gr load. I should deposit most or all of its energy in the BG without overpenetration.

I'm with you brother - thats what I'm packing right now too! ^c

kestrou

hollow10mm
01-28-2005, 14:16
go with the xtp.

Chainsaw Maniac
01-29-2005, 00:59
In the woods? XTP for sure. McNett recommends it for animals up to 400 pounds. Gold Dot opens up too quickly as a hunting round.

Steve A
01-29-2005, 08:19
Any pics?

sparky315
01-29-2005, 16:23
Excellent, Mike! Are those .45 loadings standard pressure? I've never been a fan of bullets lighter than 230, but I might have to switch from the Ranger T to your 200-grain GD load.

Never mind on the pressure question, I looked at some other threads and found the answer.

PaleGreenHorse
01-30-2005, 05:03
All this Gello talk should have made this thread "Sticky" by now. ^c

frank4570
01-30-2005, 08:14
How are you guys getting 1400fps with a 200gr lead bullet. Is it simply because it is lead instead of jacketed? Is this a normal velocity for the doubletap ammo?

Sabot 23
01-30-2005, 15:23
I would also like to see this thread stickied. Great-to-know info!:)

One surprizing detail, though: 165gr GD has better expansion than the 155gr load? Is this due to the petals peeling back farther on the 155s? Is it possible that at some point in the bullet's travel through the gelatine the 155gr GD actually had a greater expanded diameter, and then as it continued through the petals peeled back farther, in effect reducing thr final expanded diameter?

Or, to put it another way, is it possible that the 155gr loading may actually cut a broader wound channel and permanent cavity than the 165gr GD, at least through a portion of the "target". Do we know anything about the "wound channels" carved out by these loadings?

It seems to me that everyone should have a mag loaded with the 135gr and/or 155gr loads for inorganic barrier penetration, and a mag loaded with the 155gr and/or the 165gr loads for flesh and bone penetration. Or just have three mags handy, one with each load. The 10mm is truly the most versatile of all auto-pistol cartridges - awesome! Thanks again, McNett!!!;f

Tazz10m
01-30-2005, 16:26
Hey... so i'm a little slow......;g

Btw, MCNETT ROCKS!!!

MCNETT
02-01-2005, 01:06
Yes, the 155gr petals were "peeled back" further than the 165gr load.
-Mike
The 200gr BTB travels at 1300fps from a G20. It penetrates 25" in pine boards.
-Mike

JSK333
02-07-2005, 15:13
Hey Mike, I posted in the other thread in Caliber Corner but don't know if you saw it.

Do you have results from the 90gr and 95gr 9x25 loadings?

Also, what about the 200gr FMJ and 220gr LFN 10mm loadings?

Thanks! You are quite an ammunition genius! :) I really believe you are reaping in business what you have been sowing freely here all these years on GlockTalk.

jem375
02-09-2005, 23:05
deleted

Tito
02-16-2005, 14:45
Frag Nasty Fo Schizzle.:)

xd>glock2me
02-24-2005, 23:47
do you guys think that the 10mm 200gr. XTP is practical at all for personal carry I am planning on getting some of the 165gr GDHP, but not sure which other type to try. Primary use will be personal protection. Basically do you think the 165 would be more effective than the 200 if they both hit in the same place on a BG?

frank4570
02-26-2005, 07:41
I think the 200gr will probably cause a bit less immediate shock and a lot more life threatening damage. Same as a deer, I think a bad guy would bleed out faster with the added exit wound you would get with the 200gr.
ymmv

RottnJP
03-10-2005, 13:33
Mike, Can you provide some info for velocities vs. barrel length? I'm particularly interested in .40, 10mm, and .45, in case the data set is too large. Or just velocity delta per inch, generally speaking, from your baseline, whatever that is.

Thanks!!

-JP

kool aid
03-12-2005, 18:57
Originally posted by bac1023
This data is the reason I carry the 135gr load. It should deposit most or all of its energy in the BG without overpenetration.

I agree the 135 gr load is my carry choice .

Thanks mike for the info hopefully the mods will give this a sticky.

bluedog
04-16-2005, 09:22
Will there be pictures of the fired bullets and post-fired bullet weights?

bluedog
04-20-2005, 10:56
Originally posted by bluedog
Will there be pictures of the fired bullets and post-fired bullet weights?

Is this an inappropriate or irrelevant question?

kool aid
04-21-2005, 17:29
Originally posted by bluedog
Will there be pictures of the fired bullets and post-fired bullet weights?


I would love to see pics of the fired bullets.

Ron3
05-07-2005, 18:30
Now if that 158gr Gold Dot is fired from a Ruger Sp-101 like mine with 2.25in barrel (I've fired a box, great ammo!) what could it be expected to do in gelatin?

Mike said it gets about 1225fps. I'm thinking the expansion would be about the same but would penetrate a couple inches less. What say you Mike?

Ron3

MCNETT
05-10-2005, 16:35
Very tough bullet. I would guess that the expansion would be .52-.53" and the penetration would be similar.
-Mike

Ron3
05-11-2005, 19:50
Thanks Mike!

JellyBelly
06-01-2005, 23:37
What sort of fireball do you folks get with the super-light 135gr bullet in 10mm?

My Witness 10mm should be here Thursday or Friday. I wish someone locally would sell DT ammo! I hate mail order! FTF purchases are so much better.

MCNETT
06-08-2005, 17:39
Not much. The flash is very minimal even with the 135gr loading.
-Mike

Darkangel1846
06-18-2005, 11:09
I think that the 165 GD Expanding to 1.08 is astounding. A round going through vital tissue while expanding to the size of a quarter.
Doubling its size with penetration. I did carry the 155 gr. I think I've just changed to the 165s.
The 200 gr XTP...........Have you done any testing against car doors, walls..........I think you did say 25 inches of pine board.
I usually carry these while in the back woods........but may carry a mag full as a secondary back up mag for defense.
I'm not a big proponent of over penetration anymore, after I did some research, and found little to back up that so called safty issue.
DA

nvrquit
07-17-2005, 16:54
Mike, thanks for the information.

It would appear that my choice would be the 135gr or the 165gr GD's. While the 165gr GD's offer more in the way of expansion, I'm wondering if the fragmented pieces of the 135gr HP would possibly create secondary wound channels. If so, perhaps the 11" of penetration would quite adequate.

In any case, either choice in my G20 or 1066 should be up to the job if ever required(and I hope it's NEVER required!). Again Mike, a big "Thank You" for everything you've done, not just for the 10mm community.


Frank

QUEENGLOCK
07-24-2005, 15:04
here is a big thank you mike for all you have done for us on gt. :ladiesmn:

PaleGreenHorse
07-24-2005, 15:21
Originally posted by QUEENGLOCK
here is a big thank you mike for all you have done for us on gt. :ladiesmn:

+1....minus the kisses ;) PGH~

147 Grain
08-09-2005, 00:04
Thanks Mike McNett for the impressive data, which I also look forward to seeing on the 9mm when it's released on August 15, 2005.

Glolt20-91
08-31-2005, 01:56
Thanks McNett for all you do and that's great data you posted. I've been a .357 and .45acp all my life and I really like the 10mm; seems to be the best of both worlds. ;Y ^c ^6

Adios,
Bob <c>b

Wallygator
09-19-2005, 09:32
Hey Mike, can you add the 9mm loads to this list please. Thankyou.;c

JMag
09-24-2005, 18:07
Originally posted by Wallygator
Hey Mike, can you add the 9mm loads to this list please. Thankyou.;c

+1

Glolt20-91
10-15-2005, 17:36
The 200 gr XTP...........Have you done any testing against car doors, walls..........I think you did say 25 inches of pine board.

I've done some testing with 1 3/4" cinder block slabs and the 200gr XTP shed it's jacket 50% of the time above 1030fps.

I had one 230gr Golden Saber (.45acp) lose its jacket at 890fps but not all bullets were recovered. The 10mm is more spectacular when hitting a slab, but the .45acp does the same job. Both go through cinder block walls.

This week I plan on running the same test with 180gr Gold Dots and Golden Sabers 10mm. If there's time I'll run the same test with 185gr GS in .45acp.

I also have some .357mag Nosler 158gr that need to be used for comparison. :)

Adios,
Bob

Wubbman
10-18-2005, 20:12
Originally posted by kool aid
I would love to see pics of the fired bullets.

+1 I really want to see what happens to the 135gr. HP at 1600fps!

Governor
10-27-2005, 16:29
Could you please post the 9mm results as well?


thanks.

Wolf Spyder
11-02-2005, 21:48
Out standing.

Disciple
11-04-2005, 20:04
I also am anxiously waiting for the 9mm results. ;b

pangris
11-21-2005, 23:34
Very, very impressive.

Soybomb
11-30-2005, 14:06
Wow 1"+ is amazing. What barrel length was used for these tests btw?

MCNETT
11-30-2005, 22:29
A stock G20 was used for the 10mm testing. I will post the 9mm results tomorrow!
-Mike

pangris
12-01-2005, 08:57
Which is today :) Surely by 9mm you mean 9x23? ;)

Soybomb
12-01-2005, 15:43
I wonder how much a smaller barrel changes things. I can't wait to get a 10mm and buy some either way though!

pangris
12-01-2005, 18:46
FWIW, it would be great to see the ballistics from a G19 or similar sized barrel, as many people will carry that package...

And seriously, where are the 9x23 rounds?

Thanks!

PaleGreenHorse
12-01-2005, 22:40
Originally posted by pangris
=

And seriously, where are the 9x23 rounds?

Thanks!

The same place as my DoubleTap .32acp rounds......probably not made yet. ~sd

pangris
12-02-2005, 08:36
the DT .32 ACP... 50 grs at 2300 FPS... ;)

You know, a .380 developed specifically for the Kel-Tec 3AT... now that would be interesting!

But no where near as intereting as that 9x23!

Paul

PaleGreenHorse
12-02-2005, 15:01
I'd like to see an 85gr. XTP at 850 FPS and a 60gr. GD at 1100 FPS. There seems to be quite a demand for .32acp loads. Maybe we should get a thread opened about it. ;f

JinVA
12-07-2005, 10:51
Hi Mike, Any testing yet on the new 357 sig loads and the 9mm? I bet that heavy 357sig is nice. ;f

Disciple
12-10-2005, 13:01
I cannot find the 9x19mm data. I checked this thread, the Double Tap web site, and The 10 Ring. ^8

Greenbean
12-15-2005, 07:46
As I read that the 10mm results were out of a stock G20, Thats awesome, as I have a new G30, but want to get a full size 10mm for the Hizzy...:)

Were the .45 results from a G21 or G30???

Thanks...

hollow10mm
02-05-2006, 22:11
no we are still waiting for resaults from mike for added ammunition and the 9mm selection, personally i would like to see a 3rd party do aditional testing to the new untested loadings, and for mike's self tested loads. iam not doubting mikes data,i just would like to see resaults from a non-partial party. in that testing i would like to see alot more additional barrier testing done, plain gel and denim are only half the story.

MCNETT
02-22-2006, 23:45
I just edited the post to reflect the numbers for .357 Sig and 9mm.
-Mike

badkarmaiii
02-26-2006, 01:36
Mike,
I'm sure you're tired of this but... Please apply your talents to other calibers which are so in need. Personally, I'd like to see 450 SMC, 5.7x28 and .380 and .32 ACP loads from DT.

Keep up the great work,
Lee E. Murphy III

dclouse
04-06-2006, 14:43
Originally posted by MCNETT

DoubleTap .40 S&W Penetration / expansion
135gr. Nosler JHP @ 1375fps - 12.10" / .72"

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
-Mike [/B]

the .40 penetrates farther, and expands more than the 10mm????

nickE10mm
04-06-2006, 16:03
Originally posted by dclouse
the .40 penetrates farther, and expands more than the 10mm????

In that loading, yes. The 10mm w/ 135gr loadings are known to be more explosive. I think that if there was a 135gr bullet design that was DESIGNED for the 10mm it would be different.

ppro
04-06-2006, 23:35
Mike
Re the D.T. 215

I like the overall of the 215 your using now compared with the 200 B.T. Without pulling a bullet, it looks like you changed up the crimp groove location slightly.....if so, it was a good idea.

By the by, supposing what, around 21 inches penetration in Gel.,? Probably at least.

Running the numbers, I see no difference at all between this loading and 41 mag loads. Sectional density is slightly better with the 215 gr. D.T., over the 220gr. 41 Mag. bullet plus, velocity is right there with the 41 mag especially with the 6" Glock barrels....Unless I am missing something, I now have my old 41 mag back ! I always did miss my 41 mag., but no longer...


Thanks for working the combination out for the 215 load.

regards

Paul:) :) :)

pangris
04-07-2006, 13:57
Originally posted by badkarmaiii
Mike,
I'm sure you're tired of this but... Please apply your talents to other calibers which are so in need. Personally, I'd like to see 450 SMC, 5.7x28 and .380 and .32 ACP loads from DT.


...right after you get us some 9x23.


:clown:

ppro
04-07-2006, 17:10
Whiners !

;)

Paul

10mm4ever
06-29-2006, 05:29
Could someone that has a chrono, please post MV's for the DT 10mm loads when fired from a 6 inch aftermarket barrel? Just picked up a Stormlake and would be interested in what the increases were. Thanks:beer:

Photocop
07-26-2006, 01:26
10mm4ever:

While I don't have any exact data, I have asked Mike McNett about the increase in velocity that could be expected with a 6" bbl. He said that for most of his loads the increase is about 100 fps and there is one load(I can't remember which one and I've since deleted the e-mail), that I think hops up 125-150 fps.

I know this is far from specific, but it's good for ballpark figuring.

nickE10mm
07-26-2006, 05:34
Originally posted by Photocop
10mm4ever:

While I don't have any exact data, I have asked Mike McNett about the increase in velocity that could be expected with a 6" bbl. He said that for most of his loads the increase is about 100 fps and there is one load(I can't remember which one and I've since deleted the e-mail), that I think hops up 125-150 fps.

I know this is far from specific, but it's good for ballpark figuring.

I think you're spot on. The 200gr XTP's gain a little under 100 fps and the 135gr gain 100-150 fps as I recall.

MOHAA Player
07-29-2006, 08:22
Originally posted by MCNETT
From a G29 the 165gr GSHP went 15.0" and showed expansion to .84" The petals were folded further back on the bullet fired from the G20.
-Mike I like the 180gr loads,would they pen/exp less or more from a G29?
MOHAA

MCNETT
07-29-2006, 11:40
Using the G29, the 180gr GDHP:
15.5" .98"
-Mike

Redondo
09-09-2006, 16:14
Well, after shooting a couple boxes of Double Tap's 215gr WFNGC hardcast, it has become official. My woods gun, in 41mag, has been retired forever, for my hiking outings. My unofficial, unscienentific results were amazing. The penetration was GREAT. Mike, by the way, the word of this round, for black bear protection, must be spreading. Last thursday I was at my lower property line, and came up on a bear. I had your ammo, in my G20 on my hip. The bear took one look at me, and ran off just slightly under your 1225fps! :) :)

nickE10mm
09-09-2006, 16:33
Originally posted by Redondo
Well, after shooting a couple boxes of Double Tap's 215gr WFNGC hardcast, it has become official. My woods gun, in 41mag, has been retired forever, for my hiking outings. My unofficial, unscienentific results were amazing. The penetration was GREAT. Mike, by the way, the word of this round, for black bear protection, must be spreading. Last thursday I was at my lower property line, and came up on a bear. I had your ammo, in my G20 on my hip. The bear took one look at me, and ran off just slightly under your 1225fps! :) :)

:supergrin:

billwade
09-10-2006, 15:03
Mike
Is there going to be a 38+p load available. That's my self defense round. Thanks. Bill Wade

onecallednick
12-14-2006, 12:23
So I'm wondering what will happen if the BG isn't wearing 4 denim jackets and 2 t-shirts. More expansion? Less? More penetration? Less? I'm just a 19 year old peace-loving gun nut trying to figure out what to put in my G20 for 2-legged threats when the time comes.
Also I was thinking along the lines of a P-11 for a BUG, and am curious what the shorter barrel will do to the 9mm +P numbers. I'm thinking penetration goes up, expansion goes down?

cookand
12-22-2006, 02:09
one,

I can only comment on Mike's 10mm and 357 Sig loads. I say DT is The Only One. Seriously, in these 2 calibers, DT is second to none. This is all my opinion and YMMV.

Akita
01-01-2007, 10:57
/////

bdc
02-03-2007, 12:28
Who manufacturers the 165gr HP in your 45 GA?P load? I know that Sierra and Barns make such products.

Are any geletin test results available for the 45 GAP loads?

10mm4ever
02-11-2007, 11:54
This newer .45acp 165gr. pill moving out @ 1325fps. looks nice! Do you have any gel tests on it yet? I'm also interested in its performance from a 6 inch barrel?

Sig_NZ
02-13-2007, 04:02
Mike do you have a dealer in Asia Pacific area? Australia and New Zealand are crying out for Double Tap Ammo!:thumbsup:

10mm4ever
02-14-2007, 07:36
Originally posted by MCNETT
Using the G29, the 180gr GDHP:
15.5" .98"
-Mike :shocked:

Masque
03-03-2007, 23:39
Originally posted by 10mm4ever
:shocked:
Yeah - how does that work? It penetrated farther and expanded more fully than when fired from a G20? Mike?

ppro
03-04-2007, 00:31
Masque




" Yeah - how does that work? It penetrated farther and expanded more fully than when fired from a G20? Mike? "

Besides velocity differences which weren't mentioned, even lot to lot of a particular bullet can vary more than you would think.

One of the websites that used to post a lot of data on handgun ammunition performance noted a great deal of difference between bullet lots. Seems the manufactures aren't afraid to mess with the bullet designs / materials, sometimes making subtle or, not so subtle changes and the slight differences in materials might also be a factor at times AND they don't exactly announce that they have made changes....so you just don't know without testing once in awhile.

From what I have seen in tests of the 180 GDHP in 40, it does tend to open very consistently even on 4 layer denim tests (read no plugging)....but I don't recall if they were the bonded or regular GDHP bullets that were tested.

Paul

MCNETT
03-04-2007, 12:17
" Yeah - how does that work? It penetrated farther and expanded more fully than when fired from a G20? Mike? "


From the G20, the petals are folding back on themselves with the extra speed.

10mm4ever
03-12-2007, 16:09
Mike, when will the .450smc be available? I already have my G21 set up for .45Super and with Caspian finally gearing up for a G20/21 longslide, this would be an excellent addition for all of us "horsepower freaks":supergrin:

LDHunter
05-15-2007, 10:53
I can tell y'all this...

I got my defense magazine mixed up with a hunting magazine recently and popped a 115 pound wild hog with a 135gr DT load and she tumbled pretty fast. She was dead on her feet and ran about 30 feet as she toppled over slowly. No exit but massive internal destruction.

I prefer the 180 Gold Dots I bought for hog hunting but light bullets kill very well too. :thumbsup:

Don't overanalyze too much.

Mike's bullets are "the bomb" and kill almost as well as a rifle if you place your shots well. :thumbsup:

I didn't go as far as to sell my 41 mag but it doesn't get out in the woods nearly as often of late... :upeyes:

My G20 stoked with Double Taps gives me the confidence to say....

Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil.... ;)

$bob$

nickE10mm
05-15-2007, 11:04
Originally posted by LDHunter
I can tell y'all this...

I got my defense magazine mixed up with a hunting magazine recently and popped a 115 pound wild hog with a 135gr DT load and she tumbled pretty fast. She was dead on her feet and ran about 30 feet as she toppled over slowly. No exit but massive internal destruction.

I prefer the 180 Gold Dots I bought for hog hunting but light bullets kill very well too. :thumbsup:



Very interesting. I had always wondered how a 135 would perform on a tough critter...

Publilius_Syrus
06-02-2007, 08:26
Originally posted by Masque
Yeah - how does that work? It penetrated farther and expanded more fully than when fired from a G20? Mike?

More likely, it folded back beyond its max expansion with the G-20, and because of the short neck length, didn't penetrate as far as the G29's projectile. You can also see this phenomenon with .357 Sig bullets penetrating less than a slower 9mm load.

SeattleG20L
06-13-2007, 20:55
Dropped a note to Mike a couple of days ago on this topic, curious about performance data for some of his rounds, and got this back. Good Lord.

135gr - 1735fps
180gr FMJ - 1350fps
180gr XTP - 1445fps
200gr XTP - 1340fps
200gr FMJ - 1365fps
200gr. BT - 1395fps
230gr WFN - 1200fps

GlockBaby
08-10-2007, 16:04
Mike:
What length barrel did you use, and gun, for the 357 results?
Thanks

I'm VERY intrested in 450SMC. Anytime soon, what results?
Heck, your getting almost 45 Super velocities already in your 45ACP loadings. How about a PLUS PLUS P version, maybe in stronger brass, that goes 45 Super specs? I'd really like a 230 grain Gold Dot going 1200 fps, out of a 5" barrel.

I'd also like to see Gelatin on the 165's at 1300 plus as well.
I suspect there is a reason Detonics used 200 grain bullets in 451Detonics.

I see a REAL good market for Glock 30's and 45SMC...


:trek:

Dr JDS

Dobber
09-16-2007, 14:43
Thanks for the info. I just ordered a few hundred rounds from your website.

gdixon235
10-17-2007, 03:59
any stats on a .22??

98_1LE
11-28-2007, 01:48
Has the .380acp Gold Dot (and FMJ) been shot into gelatin yet, preferably from a P3AT.

texas 48
12-19-2007, 17:00
Has the .380acp Gold Dot (and FMJ) been shot into gelatin yet, preferably from a P3AT.

I would be afraid the Kel-tec would disintergate in my hand or the slide would be imbedded somewhere in my body. Both of the ones I owned spent more time in Florida @ the Factory then they did with me.Since they have a warning not to fire +p I wound not fire a DT load from one. Just My opinion based on my experience.

98_1LE
12-22-2007, 20:19
There is no +P standard in .380acp, and DT is about the same pressure as Corbon.

I recently put 107 DoubleTap's through my P3AT; still have the blister/scab to prove it, but the gun performed flawlessly. QA/QC on the second gen guns is way better than the first gen product. My current hard chrome 3AT has 298 rounds thru it, and has had exactly one failure-to-eject. This was towards the end of a range session where I had also put 100 rounds of HST through a PF-9. My hand was beat up, and I believe I limp-wristed the gun, causing the failure. Regardless I trust this P3AT, and the PF-9 which has almost 400 flawless rounds through it. Both are carried; the PF-9 is in my pocket as I type this.

Glock1911
01-02-2008, 15:53
Mike have you got any results for the 230 gr. wide flat nose , gas checked rounds, the 200 gr. Beartooth rounds and the 200 gr. FMJ flat nose rounds?

I'm not concerned about over penetration?:cool:

Tang419
01-19-2008, 12:29
What is the standard of penetration for choosing a good SD round ? When I think about it, it doesn't seem like that many folks are more than 12" thick in the chest. Why on earth do you need 15"+ of penetration ?

I was going to get a G32 barrel for my G23, but I think I will just go with Mike's 135gr in my .40 :wow:

texas 48
01-19-2008, 12:45
What is the standard of penetration for choosing a good SD round ? When I think about it, it doesn't seem like that many folks are more than 12" thick in the chest. Why on earth do you need 15"+ of penetration ?

I was going to get a G32 barrel for my G23, but I think I will just go with Mike's 135gr in my .40 :wow:

In a Sd situation there is a good chance that not every shot will be head on. Not every perp will come at you in that manner. If you are taking evasive action your first round may have to be on the side of the BG or you may be on the ground therefore requiring more penitration to hit a vital area in order to stop an attack. Real life is far different than the movies.

Tang419
01-19-2008, 12:49
In a Sd situation there is a good chance that not every shot will be head on. Not every perp will come at you in that manner. If you are taking evasive action your first round may have to be on the side of the BG or you may be on the ground therefore requiring more penitration to hit a vital area in order to stop an attack. Real life is far different than the movies.

I wasn't thinking of it that way. Thank you, that makes a lot more sense.

Would the 200gr XTP's be bad choice for SD, or am I better off sticking with the 180's ?

texas 48
01-19-2008, 21:56
I wasn't thinking of it that way. Thank you, that makes a lot more sense.

Would the 200gr XTP's be bad choice for SD, or am I better off sticking with the 180's ?

Both Great rounds nut the 200gr is used more for game. I prefer the 165gr GDHP 14.5 penitration 664ftlbs .88 expansion from g29 or the 135gr Nosler 12.5 penitration 684 ftlbs of energy and .75 expansion but this round does frag. Better SD rounds IMHO.

GlockBaby
01-19-2008, 22:29
The smallest guy that ever attacked me was 6'2" and about 200 pounds. All the others have been way over 250. 3 of them were on coke and alcohol, and I just happened to be wrong place wrong time...

agentl074
02-02-2008, 13:27
The smallest guy that ever attacked me was 6'2" and about 200 pounds. All the others have been way over 250. 3 of them were on coke and alcohol, and I just happened to be wrong place wrong time...

Sounds like a good candidate for a XTP or heavy Gold Dot

SDGlock23
02-05-2008, 13:05
Any idea of what the 200gr Cast in both 10mm and .40 do in gel? I'd say they plow pretty deep.

Northalius
05-18-2008, 17:07
Anyone know why Mike showed the .357 SIG gel results from a G32 (Compact model, 4" barrel) as compared to the 9mm +p results from a G17 (Standard model, 4.5" barrel)? What were the results from a G31 with 4.5" barrel? Were the rounds badly deformed in gel, and thus why you didn't show their results? Or you did you not have a G31 to test the .357 SIG out with at that time?

Short Cut
12-04-2008, 12:32
How did the 10MM 155 grain Barnes bullet do in gellatin?

omegapointer
12-26-2008, 21:40
Hi--

_I just ordered from you a number of different 10mm rounds. Do you have penetration and expansion data on the 10MM_155GR_BRNS_X_20_500.aspx?

Thank you

Brian Lee
01-04-2009, 00:39
How did the 10MM 155 grain Barnes bullet do in gellatin?

Same question here. I just recently bought some of those and have not shot them yet. Still VERY curious about how they'll do for HD purposes.

Iceman cHucK
03-01-2009, 09:10
Also waiting for gel results on 155g Barnes 10mm load from DT! I emailed DT in Jan but got no response!

Glockcubed
03-28-2009, 18:56
I just ordered some DT 135gr Noslers JHP. I have just used up my DT 165gr Speer GD JHP. The purpose of my G20 is for self defense/home security. Which will be better? I am sold on Double Tap and thanks for any feedback.

omegapointer
03-28-2009, 21:01
Their lack of response must mean that Barnes did better than their flagship rounds.

Also, DT did not do well in a .380 test. I still carry their 10mm rounds for self defense, but it is not a good sign when they ignore repeated inquiries from multiple sources. Assume the worst.

Warp
03-28-2009, 21:17
I agree.

germ5150
04-08-2009, 20:46
I ordered some ammo in early February and left message for DT about the shipping. They were quick to ship but slow to respond. When I spoke to Mike he said that he had just had twins and that he was super busy just getting all the orders shipped. Bear with him I am sure he will be back to full capacity soon enough.

JK-linux
04-08-2009, 21:31
I see results for .45ACP 230gr JHP's, but none listed for sale on the web site. Am I missing something?

RottnJP
05-03-2009, 22:40
I ordered some ammo in early February and left message for DT about the shipping. They were quick to ship but slow to respond. When I spoke to Mike he said that he had just had twins and that he was super busy just getting all the orders shipped. Bear with him I am sure he will be back to full capacity soon enough.

:wow:

He sounded like he was *crazy* busy when I had some contact with him in Jan or Feb- (A small business owner loves to be busy, but it may mean you need to e-mail him a second time, and he doesn't have time for "**** chat" like he did occasionally a few years ago.) But now he's added twins to the mix?!? God bless him, and all the other folks who pull that off. Two wonderful boys spread out a few years keep me busy enough, let alone twins... :faint:

PS: LOL "C H I T" activates the naughty language filter!

Warp
05-03-2009, 22:44
Really, you can't say **** chat. Geez.

Well, there are sub forums for paid members, often by invite, where those filters go away. :)

RottnJP
05-03-2009, 22:44
I see results for .45ACP 230gr JHP's, but none listed for sale on the web site. Am I missing something?

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=95

I've never seen them gone... Maybe you just missed them?

He used to use Gold Dot's, but the "Bonded defense" look like the same load. Don't know if the name changed but the bullet is the same, or what...

JK-linux
05-04-2009, 06:08
Thanks Rottn. Not sure how I missed those.

cowboywannabe
05-13-2009, 11:41
I think that the 165 GD Expanding to 1.08 is astounding. A round going through vital tissue while expanding to the size of a quarter.
Doubling its size with penetration. I did carry the 155 gr. I think I've just changed to the 165s.
The 200 gr XTP...........Have you done any testing against car doors, walls..........I think you did say 25 inches of pine board.
I usually carry these while in the back woods........but may carry a mag full as a secondary back up mag for defense.
I'm not a big proponent of over penetration anymore, after I did some research, and found little to back up that so called safty issue.
DA


over an inch of expansion would seem impossible with that bullet's design wouldnt it?

i too would like to see some peer review of the DT 10mm loads, they seem too good to be true, but then again they just might be the best thing out there in 10mm....

Short Cut
05-27-2009, 10:57
Their lack of response must mean that Barnes did better than their flagship rounds.

Also, DT did not do well in a .380 test. I still carry their 10mm rounds for self defense, but it is not a good sign when they ignore repeated inquiries from multiple sources. Assume the worst.


I wouldn't go that far as to assume anything from a lack of response. Heck I look at all the data presented here and the work involved to achieve the data as a monumental undertaking. Then on top of that people like me keep asking for more.

The reason I won't go negative on Double Tap is because they are the best thing going for 10MM fans and I appreciate that.

cowboywannabe
05-27-2009, 13:14
I wouldn't go that far as to assume anything from a lack of response. Heck I look at all the data presented here and the work involved to achieve the data as a monumental undertaking. Then on top of that people like me keep asking for more.

The reason I won't go negative on Double Tap is because they are the best thing going for 10MM fans and I appreciate that.


this is quite true. very few companies are making an effort to produce 10mm rounds at 10mm power levels, regardless of bullet design. Cor-bon makes a nice 10mm round though its not loaded much hotter than thier .40cal round. Georgia Arms makes a nice 10mm round but its still only a "warm" load.

Buffalo Bore makes some hot 10mm rounds but the price is high compared to others. Double Tap makes 10mm powered loads, though the bullets used might not be the best for the speeds they are loaded to. but they are making the effort, and i like that.

RottnJP
07-13-2009, 18:37
Hey .380 ACP fans! :whistling:

I heard back form Mike today and got some penetration results on the .380 loads!

90gr GDHP - 9.5" .53"
95gr JHP - 11.25" .47"

The "JHP" is his newer "XTP JHP" load. The GDHP is his earlier load that does o.k., but is outperformed by the CorBon DPX, for example.

That XTP JHP looks like a winner to me, though- Competitive performance, more reasonably priced- Doubletap FTW! :supergrin:

Those numbers are out of a P3AT, by the way.

freakshow10mm
08-28-2009, 08:53
Over on M4C.net an independent test of DT's 40 S&W 155gr GD load provided an eye opener.

.40 S&W Speer 155 gr Gold Dot JHP; ave vel=1166 fps (S&W 4006); gel cal= 9.5cm@ 585fps
BG: pen=13.2", RD=0.64", RL=0.32", RW=155.5 gr
4 layers denim: pen=16.0", RD=0.60", RL=0.44", RW=155.3gr

.40 S&W Double Tap 155 gr Gold Dot JHP; ave vel=1208 fps (S&W 4006); gel cal=10cm@578fps
BG: pen=15.0", RD=0.66", RL=0.39", RW=155.6gr
4 layer denim: pen=17.1", RD=0.55", RL=0.42", RW=155.2gr

RD=Recovered Diameter
RL=Recovered Length
RW=Recovered Weight

Far cry from DT's internal claimed .76" expansion. I would like to know how they measured the .76 expansion.


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26026

DrtyHarry
03-07-2010, 18:27
Mike have you got any results for the 230 gr. wide flat nose , gas checked rounds, the 200 gr. Beartooth rounds and the 200 gr. FMJ flat nose rounds?

I'm not concerned about over penetration?:cool:

I too would like to know. Thanks!


DH

whenmonkeysfly
04-16-2010, 07:43
How did the 10MM 155 grain Barnes bullet do in gellatin?


10mm 155gr. Barnes TAC-XP Data? Thanks for great ammo, Mike!

10mm Universe
05-06-2010, 03:17
.....

PATRICE
05-16-2010, 07:26
.....

glock20_doubletapper
05-23-2010, 22:17
Mike, thank you for this information. You offer excellent ammunition and a great service. Ive ordered 10mm ammo and 45 acp ammo from you on several occasions and have never been let down. Thank you.

hunt_ak
06-19-2010, 10:09
Any chance on penetration tests on the hardcast loads, Mike?

roach4047
12-15-2010, 15:27
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"


1.02" expansion measurement.:wow: That is amazing. This round is a freak of nature.

Roach

hunt_ak
12-27-2010, 20:25
Any chance on penetration tests on the hardcast loads, Mike?
No????

I'm assuming the hardcast loads have to be good sellers. I know the data would be much appreciated to the Alaska/Anyone carrying a 10mm for 'tooth and claw' protection...

firemedic1343
02-01-2011, 23:30
I'm very curious. I would love to see testing done on some 10mm hardcast

No????

I'm assuming the hardcast loads have to be good sellers. I know the data would be much appreciated to the Alaska/Anyone carrying a 10mm for 'tooth and claw' protection...

Dr.Og
02-24-2011, 17:30
another vote for hardcast 10mm data. it would be nice to have it. i am about to buy a bunch of these rounds.

ennis
03-03-2011, 10:30
The data for the hardcast penetration in Ballistic Gel or wet pack paper/phonebooks would be interesting, but something closer to Todd Corder/John Linebaugh's "bone box" would be more on the mark for what I'm looking at in performance from the Double Tap hardcast 10mm.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=134624

inspectorjj
07-07-2011, 19:18
Excellent information. It helped me decide what I plan on using for my purposes.

See my last post on the thread Glock2020.

steelvipersedg
09-08-2011, 20:51
:perfect10:165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"


1.02" expansion measurement.:wow: That is amazing. This round is a freak of nature.

Roach

:rock:that is the best performance I have ever seen out of any auto pistol. Does anyone know if outside testing ever colaborated these results..

Still they are awsome

SolidBrass
01-08-2012, 00:16
It doesn't say if those speeds are chono'd. I'm guessing that they were not and taken from the box. DT chrono videos on youtube show they are a good 10+% weaker the box lists. The gel depth is impressive for sure, I just wonder what they would do with velocity numbers that were truthful. (AKA Swamp Fox and Underwood)

Chris Miller
04-07-2012, 21:49
Very good info to have. Thanks a lot for taking the time and making this available to all of us out here! Very cool of you...

Andrew Wiggin
04-10-2012, 12:55
I presume McNett has never bothered to respond to questions about the accuracy of his claims. This "data" would be really interesting if it were to be believed.

cookand
04-10-2012, 21:03
I presume McNett has never bothered to respond to questions about the accuracy of his claims. This "data" would be really interesting if it were to be believed.

He won't address the ridiculous inaccuracies in his advertised velocities. Still wondering why this is push pinned...:upeyes:

gator378
09-27-2012, 09:43
These results are very impressive. The 200 grain XTP penetrated 19.5 inches. I think that is what I will use for carrying in the woods in my G20. Do you guys think that would be a good choice or do you think the 180 grain gold dot is better?

I use the 200 grain XTP with 13.0 grains of AA#9. Average velocity is 1113 with s=7.3. I gave trying to get to 1200fps for various reasons. Pressures were getting to the edge. If I need more power the 44 Mag is pressed into service.

gator378
09-27-2012, 09:50
I presume McNett has never bothered to respond to questions about the accuracy of his claims. This "data" would be really interesting if it were to be believed.

I chronoed on 25 Sept 2012 10 rounds from 13 May 2004, lot number, 000079, the 200grain XTP. I got an average for 10 rounds of 1163 fps with s= 16.53

Not 1250 but good enough for me. I suspect that getting 1250 out of the short Glock 20 barrell may be pushing pressures to the line. Next project is getting the 6 inch Barstow barrell.

Warp
09-27-2012, 11:38
I chronoed on 25 Sept 2012 10 rounds from 13 May 2004, lot number, 000079, the 200grain XTP. I got an average for 10 rounds of 1163 fps with s= 16.53

Not 1250 but good enough for me. I suspect that getting 1250 out of the short Glock 20 barrell may be pushing pressures to the line. Next project is getting the 6 inch Barstow barrell.

Short?

That's a full size pistol.

What length barrel are they using for their numbers?

Slateman
10-22-2012, 10:31
So is the OP still good? Or is it out of date?

Warp
10-22-2012, 11:18
I certainly wouldn't buy anything from DT and expect performance such as what was tested 7+ years ago.

But then gelatin results aren't the whole story anyway, even when they are currently relevant.

Slateman
10-24-2012, 08:50
So no one has done any studies of the most recent stuff?

ennis
10-24-2012, 16:15
double post

cadjak
10-24-2012, 16:23
Double Tap 200gr WFNGC and 230gr WFNGC
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/Misc%20Firearms/10mm%20guns%20and%20ammo/CIMG3428_zps1095e35b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/Misc%20Firearms/10mm%20guns%20and%20ammo/CIMG3413_zps6cec3ffb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/Misc%20Firearms/10mm%20guns%20and%20ammo/photobucket-35359-1349209655408.jpg



The 200gr were from lot #007400, the 230gr from lot #007383. I bought 3 boxes in 2011. I contacted Double Tap last week and they sent one free box of Nosler 200gr jhp (I requested a non-cast load). The email from Rhett McNett, simply said, "thanks for calling it to our attention..we'll send you a box of ammo for your inconvenience. The problem has been taken care of" I am a long time DT customer. This is the first time there has been a significant problem. As someone on the cast boolits forum said, "if something this obvious got past them, who knows what is happening with less obvious probs." (I'm paraphrasing).

BTW. this sort of casting phoobah is caused by casting in a cold mold. Someone else viewing the photos thought that the change of color midway down the case could be from putting the loaded rounds through a resizing die. I am very far from understanding the fine points of ammo loading so, I don't know. I do know that seeing these has me concerned about what I buy from Double Tap.

The replacement ammo (Nosler jhp) NOT look too good, unless the weird stuff inside the hollow point is actually Russian caviar. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/10MM200grNosler.jpg

(The fuzzy yellow around the bullet is just some micro fiber cloth that I wrapped the cartridge to help hold it for the picture).

Warp
10-24-2012, 16:31
I've never been a fan of Double Tap. Bought from them once, years ago. Never again.

Taterhead
10-24-2012, 19:12
I have personally had good results with the component WFNGCs from DT. They have been consistently sized and uniform weight. The only knock I have seen is the occasional inconsistent lube on a few of the bullets where part was missing.

Obviously there is some inconsistent QC over there. How a bullet like that could pass through to the customer unnoticed is baffling to me. First, no one noticed during casting. Then nobody bothered to notice during loading into ammo, or afterwards during packaging? Wow.

Andrew Wiggin
02-27-2013, 13:29
I certainly wouldn't buy anything from DT and expect performance such as what was tested 7+ years ago.

But then gelatin results aren't the whole story anyway, even when they are currently relevant.

Calibrated gelatin is the only qualitative, empirical, and most importantly, standardized, measurement of terminal performance available.

I think Intercooler might have had some DT that he was planning to send for the next batch of tests, but that could be some time. He sent me a LOT of ammo to work through.

whenmonkeysfly
02-27-2013, 22:10
Double Tap 200gr WFNGC and 230gr WFNGC
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/Misc%20Firearms/10mm%20guns%20and%20ammo/CIMG3428_zps1095e35b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/Misc%20Firearms/10mm%20guns%20and%20ammo/CIMG3413_zps6cec3ffb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/Misc%20Firearms/10mm%20guns%20and%20ammo/photobucket-35359-1349209655408.jpg



The 200gr were from lot #007400, the 230gr from lot #007383. I bought 3 boxes in 2011. I contacted Double Tap last week and they sent one free box of Nosler 200gr jhp (I requested a non-cast load). The email from Rhett McNett, simply said, "thanks for calling it to our attention..we'll send you a box of ammo for your inconvenience. The problem has been taken care of" I am a long time DT customer. This is the first time there has been a significant problem. As someone on the cast boolits forum said, "if something this obvious got past them, who knows what is happening with less obvious probs." (I'm paraphrasing).

BTW. this sort of casting phoobah is caused by casting in a cold mold. Someone else viewing the photos thought that the change of color midway down the case could be from putting the loaded rounds through a resizing die. I am very far from understanding the fine points of ammo loading so, I don't know. I do know that seeing these has me concerned about what I buy from Double Tap.

The replacement ammo (Nosler jhp) NOT look too good, unless the weird stuff inside the hollow point is actually Russian caviar. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/10MM200grNosler.jpg

(The fuzzy yellow around the bullet is just some micro fiber cloth that I wrapped the cartridge to help hold it for the picture).

Wow, now that's some CRAP ammo. What is going on with Double Tap? 10mm and .45ACP stuff I've bought from Mike several years ago was above average for factory loadings and a little slower in velocity than advertised, but those castings are crap. Now you wonder what's wrong with the stuff in the case too. I still have some 200 grain WFNGC in10mm that were/are decent. I don't think I'd shoot those though! Quality Control ignored a few too many lots.

Warp
02-27-2013, 22:12
Wow, now that's some CRAP ammo. What is going on with Double Tap?

This should not be a surprise.

RYT 2BER
02-28-2013, 18:27
You know what double tap should probably do....



Close :rofl:

Andrew Wiggin
03-05-2013, 09:37
As is often the case in business, ego seems to be getting in the way. All he needs to do is issue a lame apology and change the numbers on the box flap. The ammo is still hotter than most, though not as good as Underwood. People would buy his stuff if he wasn't an arrogant jackass. As it is it looks like his company will go under before he cops to what he did.

RYT 2BER
03-05-2013, 10:49
As is often the case in business, ego seems to be getting in the way. All he needs to do is issue a lame apology and change the numbers on the box flap. The ammo is still hotter than most, though not as good as Underwood. People would buy his stuff if he wasn't an arrogant jackass. As it is it looks like his company will go under before he cops to what he did.

You're probably right although he should also lower his prices...

He has lost a literal ton of business to Underwood already.

Andrew Wiggin
03-05-2013, 12:20
I agree but I think he could still stay in business even at the inflated prices if he was just honest.

Short Cut
03-06-2013, 21:21
Any way you slice it, Mike McNett helped to move the 10MM Auto cartridge forward in popularity and power. Times were getting pretty bleak there for those in search of Norma power levels back in the day. Folks were thinking the .40 S&W would supplant the 10MM when Mike picked up the torch.

His initial cartridges using Starline Brass were well made and consistent. His case discount made it attractively priced then too. Forum members were buying more and more with good reports. Then he got his own stamped nickel plated cases and to me that product coupled with the 200 grain XTP was a good reason to stop searching for the right 10MM round and just load up the truck. I've shot thousands of completely reliable rounds from that era and absolutely could not be happier with the round.

Another thing worth considering I think. In business it is common that initial set prices rise as time passes and the owner gets a truer picture of what his true costs are. Furthermore it is common in businesses like this that have fairly low cost of entry that new guys are frequently joining the market at low and likely unsustainable prices because they still don't know the full magnitude of their costs.

I'm sorry to see some of these recent issues and hopefully changes will be implemented to get back the QC of the not so distant past. It's not like us shooters are exactly flush with choices for 10MM, Mike has done good for the round and I hope he sticks around for a long time.

mag360
08-28-2013, 05:11
Why are the 200gr noslers missing advertised velocity when ran through a 6" hunter barrel and around 100-150fps slower from a 4.6" barrel than advertised?

Andrew Wiggin
08-28-2013, 11:13
Mag360, DT used to load ammunition to the claimed velocities but several years ago, they reduced the loads and never changed the claims. Underwood, Buffalo Bore, and a few other companies make ammunition that meets their claims.

Take a look at this spreadsheet. It gives tested specs on quite a few 10mm loads. Just click on the bullet weight to see loads in that weight range.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?hl=en&hl=en&key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E&type=view&gid=0&f=true&sortcolid=8&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

mag360
08-28-2013, 16:31
thanks! I have that spreadsheet too. I've added some of pat Quinn's (gunblast.com) testing in as well with his 6.3" barrel and a couple other various loads he has done.

Andrew Wiggin
08-28-2013, 16:59
Great! Intercooler put it together with data gathered from his tests, Shadow's, and my own.

Slateman
02-13-2014, 18:52
So on their website they list hollow points but not a manufacturer. Who do they buy from?

_The_Shadow
02-13-2014, 19:30
So on their website they list hollow points but not a manufacturer. Who do they buy from?

They were called down on using the trademark names by Speer namely Gold Dot...now they are referred to as "bonded defense".
:whistling:

Berto
02-13-2014, 19:43
I don't wish anything ill toward DT, I also credit McNett with helping revitalize the 10mm, along with offering some uptempo loads in in other otherwise watered down calibers.
Still, I'm also disappointed with exaggerative claims that don't jive with the chrono and I have experienced that myself using the .44sp load from 3 guns over the chrono.

Slateman
02-14-2014, 08:55
Are they still being exaggerated? It's been 9 years since this thread was started. Have they not addressed the issue?