Kimber Customer Satisfaction

[cole]

Given recent/growing(?) questions about Kimber quality - particulary following the Series II and external extractor (i.e. "non-traditionalist") modifications - I personally found this information intersting and wanted to share: Question: Does your Kimber run trouble-free? (http://forums.1911forum.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=466) and Question: Are you satisfied with your Kimber? (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=80109)

[eljay45]

Less than 1200 votes out of how many 10s of thousands of Kimbers produced. Take it for what it is worth.

[engineer151515]

Yes


Yes


I also have nothing but good things to say about the Kimber shop personnel who return phone calls.

Great people.

:)

[Kruzr]

I've always found Kimber to be the fastest and most responsive customer service in the business.

[GlockShmock]

It's hard to gauge customer service from a poll of strangers. No matter what company I deal with I usually never have a problem. Of course, I spend a little time with small talk and make them my friend first. When you read stories on the web about how "horrible" some rep was, you have to remember that there are two sides to that conversation and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[Jerseycitysteve]

I love my Kimber Eclipse Pro II it is balanced beautiful and accurate. The pistol also couldn't go through a magazine of hardball without jamming.

After reading the threads cited, I called Kimber customer service and asked for a new extractor. It arrived in a week and was different from what came with the pistol.

I have no problem with Kimber customer service. I do have a problem with Kimber management and the firearms press. Why couldn't Kimber notify me of the extractor so I wouldn't have had to spend all of that time going through ammo, and magazines? Are gun writers so lazy that they can't find this obvious story?

Kimber is a great pistol with a poor first design of an external extractor. Why the big secret?

I shoot my Kimber every chance I get. In fact, I'm selling my Sig P220.

[bratch]

Happy enough with mine to buy a Compact for carry. Just got through the Givens Combative Pistol fired about 600 rounds with 3 failure to feeds. No extraction issues. This is the dreaded series II

[Jerseycitysteve]

Originally posted by bratch
Happy enough with mine to buy a Compact for carry. Just got through the Givens Combative Pistol fired about 600 rounds with 3 failure to feeds. No extraction issues. This is the dreaded series II

Do your pistols have an external or internal extractor?

[bratch]

External,

[Jerseycitysteve]

Originally posted by bratch
External,

If you don't mind me asking, when did you get the pistol? Kimber has changed the extractor on the QT.

With the second or even third generation extractor, the pistol shines. These are terrific shooters.

[Jerseycitysteve]

Originally posted by Jerseycitysteve
If you don't mind me asking, when did you get the pistol? Kimber has changed the extractor on the QT.

With the second or even third generation extractor, the pistol shines. These are terrific shooters.


Here are the two extractors side by side.

[bratch]

Bought it in October no idea how long it was on the shelf before that though.

[Kruzr]

Jerseycity, if you are under the impression that ALL external extractor Kimbers needed the extractor changed, you are a bit off base. You can read lots of postings on the internet about external extractor problems and Kimber certainly does have 3 designs. But, remember that Kimber puts out about 150 pistols a day and not many have problems. They haven't done something behind your back. When someone has a problem and they figure its the extractor, they send a different design to see if it solves the problem. It comes down to gun timing. Most work fine with the extractor they come with. Others need some breaking in to find the right timing. Some need a change.
I see a lot of new Kimbers at the range as well as other brands. I have only seen one that had a real problem with the external extractor. I know the problem is out there but I think you are wrong in assuming you are in the majority and that there is a cover-up at Kimber's upper management. Just my opinion based on what I see in real life, not what I read on the forums (and I read a lot of them.)

[Jerseycitysteve]

Originally posted by Kruzr
Jerseycity, if you are under the impression that ALL external extractor Kimbers needed the extractor changed, you are a bit off base. You can read lots of postings on the internet about external extractor problems and Kimber certainly does have 3 designs. But, remember that Kimber puts out about 150 pistols a day and not many have problems. They haven't done something behind your back. When someone has a problem and they figure its the extractor, they send a different design to see if it solves the problem. It comes down to gun timing. Most work fine with the extractor they come with. Others need some breaking in to find the right timing. Some need a change.
I see a lot of new Kimbers at the range as well as other brands. I have only seen one that had a real problem with the external extractor. I know the problem is out there but I think you are wrong in assuming you are in the majority and that there is a cover-up at Kimber's upper management. Just my opinion based on what I see in real life, not what I read on the forums (and I read a lot of them.)


I see your point! Thanks:)

I didn't think external extractors, unlike internal extractors, needed adjusting. I thought they either worked or didn't.

Other pistols have external extractors, even one model from Bill Wilson. Do they have the same problems?

[Wolfgang]

It would be difficult for a company to send a notice to every gunowner. First, not all have problems. Why fix something that isn't broken? Second, not all owners send in their registration/warranty card. Even if they do, there is a time lapse from sending it in until it gets in the system. This could take a few weeks and the problem may present itself the same day, or soon thereafter, that a gun is purchased.

Upon notice of a problem what is important is how the company deals with it. I've only sent a gun to Colt and S&W. Both guns were working properly. Both had a finish problem and were refinished by the company. There were some spec changes there made to the Colt, which I requested. Some Colts are assembled with whatever parts are available that day and may not be the specs that are posted on the website . Colt did a trigger job while they had the gun. No cost to me for anything, including shipping both ways with FedEx pick up and delivery. Same for S&W, they paid shipping, refinished the gun and I paid for a trigger job and replacment trigger to replace the MIM one.

Kimber had been ok for me when I have called them, but I have never returned a gun to them. I have 2 "pre-II" guns and neither have any problems to discuss since they shoot when the trigger is pulled and usually hit where I want it too. When it doesn't, it's me, not the gun:)

[10hasteeth]

I have 3, and all are excellent out of the box. Just lucky I guess.

[DAVE RICHARDS]

If you go to the Kimber section of the 1911 forum and look up customer service, ftf, fte, ftrtb, you will find lots of folks have had problems with their Kimbers with external extractors. Customer service has been very erratic. Some getting excellent service, others service nightmares. The external extractor problems seem to be getting worked out since they have gone through various designs. Chances are you'll probably get a good one out of the box. Lots of folks haven't. Some have gotten excellent service, others been treated badly. This is just the truth. Some folks want to argue and demand to know how many have had problems with customer service percentage wise. Only Kimber knows that. I went through alot to get my Ultra Carry up and running and at different times they were horrible and other times great. I will say this if you get one that works right out of the box or get yours to work with just an extractor change you will be happy with the weapon. Since mine is now working I carry it most of the time. It feels great in the hand. For a little .45 it's really not bad as far as recoil. And it will shoot tighter groups than alot of my full sized pistols. At 15 yards anyways. Just my experience. YMMV.

[Jerseycitysteve]

Originally posted by DAVE RICHARDS
If you go to the Kimber section of the 1911 forum and look up customer service, ftf, fte, ftrtb, you will find lots of folks have had problems with their Kimbers with external extractors. Customer service has been very erratic. Some getting excellent service, others service nightmares. The external extractor problems seem to be getting worked out since they have gone through various designs. Chances are you'll probably get a good one out of the box. Lots of folks haven't. Some have gotten excellent service, others been treated badly. This is just the truth. Some folks want to argue and demand to know how many have had problems with customer service percentage wise. Only Kimber knows that. I went through alot to get my Ultra Carry up and running and at different times they were horrible and other times great. I will say this if you get one that works right out of the box or get yours to work with just an extractor change you will be happy with the weapon. Since mine is now working I carry it most of the time. It feels great in the hand. For a little .45 it's really not bad as far as recoil. And it will shoot tighter groups than alot of my full sized pistols. At 15 yards anyways. Just my experience. YMMV.


With the new extractor my Kimber Eclipse pro is working great!!!!!

[jmt1271]

hey guys,i am far from an expert but this may help.i just received my new kimber pro cdp this morning.when i ordered it i asked about it being the most current of kimbers offerings(didnt want something that had been in a warehouse for 6-12 months)i was told it was their most current,it is called a series IIE.says it on the lable on the side of the box as well.i was told they had redesigned the extractor and that is the update.hope this helps.

[quantico]

I am glad that kimber is trying to fix their extractor problems... it is a shame that they did not get it right the first time like browning did...

every time I see a kimber ad telling you about their advanced extractor ( external } I think about my colts and norinco and other 1911's that have worked since day one without such advanced technology... I can adjust those parts myself... in about ten minutes...

[Kruzr]

every time I see a kimber ad telling you about their advanced extractor ( external } I think about my colts and norinco and other 1911's that have worked since day one without such advanced technology... I can adjust those parts myself... in about ten minutes...

Every time I see an ad for a new car touting all the electronics, I think about my dad's `52 Chevy that worked from day one without any of it. He used to be able to replace those parts himself.

Progress happens. I very much doubt that if John Browning were alive today, he would choose a leaf spring for an extractor.

If you go to the Kimber section of the 1911 forum and look up customer service, ftf, fte, ftrtb, you will find lots of folks have had problems with their Kimbers with external extractors.
And if you count them and eliminate those people who have to post their complaint numerous times, you'll find that the total number of complaints is only equal to about a day or two worth of production of Kimbers. That's a very small percentage.

[Jerseycitysteve]

Originally posted by Kruzr
Every time I see an ad for a new car touting all the electronics, I think about my dad's `52 Chevy that worked from day one without any of it. He used to be able to replace those parts himself.

Progress happens. I very much doubt that if John Browning were alive today, he would choose a leaf spring for an extractor.


I understand the spirit of John Browning appeared to Gaston Glock one Christmas Eve after the shovel engineer had one too many shots of pear schnapps.

But that's another story ;b

[Kruzr]

Originally posted by Jerseycitysteve
I understand the spirit of John Browning appeared to Gaston Glock one Christmas Eve after the shovel engineer had one too many shots of pear schnapps.

But that's another story ;b
It must have been JMB's spirit that had too much if he suggested plastic and stamped metal parts.
;) ;f

[cole]

Originally posted by quantico
I am glad that kimber is trying to fix their extractor problems... it is a shame that they did not get it right the first time like browning did...

every time I see a kimber ad telling you about their advanced extractor ( external } I think about my colts and norinco and other 1911's that have worked since day one without such advanced technology... I can adjust those parts myself... in about ten minutes...

Nowadays, many product "enhancements" are not so much about better, but cheaper (production). If it's as good (or better) than the former method, it's likely incidental. A great example being MIM parts.

I read the internal extractor configuration is more costly to manufacture. I imagine this propted a switch as much as any thing other factor.

Companies are in the business to make money. That's the bottom-line. Saving a penny here and a penny there - even at the expense of product QC - adds up in the end.

The link Customer Satisfaction data reflects an 87% satisfaction rating at the time of this post. What's the % were QC issues threaten profit? The answer to this is when companies will reconsider cost-savings approaches that undermine QC. A profit-first focus will prevail until QC issues begins to negatively impact the bottom-line. Sadly, modern Business 101.

[DAVE RICHARDS]

When the external extractor is done correctly on the new 1911's they work very well. MY S&W 1911Sc has been through a couple of thousand rounds now without a single prolem. No external exractor gun I've owned has ever had to go through any adjusting and always worked. My SA LW Compact wouldn't work from the box because of a bad extractor. Put in a Wilson Bulletproof and problem resolved. But you are still not supposed to hand feed a ound and drop the slideon it. Don't know why you would want to but you can with an external exractor. As far as the old Corvette goes let me say this. The "05 Corvette is much faster, corners much better has far better "creature comforts", and only needs a tune-up every 100,000 miles. Yes you need a computer to work on them but you don't need to work on them near as often (how often did you have to tune earlier cars, change plugs,and so on). It's called progress. And I love a classic car as much as any collector. But take todays stock 'vette and put it on a track and the old ones can't touch it for all aound performance. Let the flames begin!