Nestor
01-29-2005, 15:12
I found it here:
http://www.signaturegrade.com/sg/baseguns.html
enjoy :)
prefer to use and build only steel framed, 5" barreled 1911's in .45 ACP, just as JMB originally designed. That setup is hard to beat for reliability, durability, and shootability. Any deviation from that design - another caliber, shortened slide or frame, or lightened frame materials - represent some compromise and can create problems of their own. The altered formats can be made to work and have applications, but are not generally the top choice for serious work.
With today’s crowded 1911 market, it can be difficult to select the appropriate gun for the job. Careful consideration of your priorities and the intended role of the pistol will help greatly in the successful selection of the right 1911 for you.
Blued or stainless?
For a full house gun, carbon steel is the superior choice. Carbon steel frames and slides can be fit up tighter than stainless without any potential for galling. Hard fitting of a slide and frame involves peening, lapping, and generally forcing the components together and generating friction. In stainless, this is an ideal situation to induce galling. A stainless gun is best left with the factory slide to frame fit. Certain premium components are only available in carbon steel, so parts selection can sometimes be limited for a stainless gun.
Stainless is appropriate for a basic field or duty grade gun, but various finishes can also be applied to a carbon steel gun to improve its corrosion resistance. The popular spray/bake polymer finishes do not adhere as well to stainless, as it does not receive the same chemical etch (ie. Parkerizing) pretreatment before the application of the polymer outer coat. On the other hand, stainless is easily refinished by simply bead blasting the surface.
I don’t want a firing pin safety in my gun!
Firing pin safeties are a fact of life in new production 1911’s. Each manufacturer has their own solution, and each system has its little quirks. Some systems are more reliable and easier to work around than others. It’s your choice if you want to let the inclusion or exclusion of firing pin safety systems direct your selection of 1911’s.
What base gun should I use?
Following is my evaluation of commonly available 1911’s, and their positive and negative traits as base guns for custom work. By reading carefully, you should be able to select the right gun for your application.
Colt:
There are a plethora of Colts to choose from, but they all share certain traits, both positive and negative, in regards to their use as base guns. Historically, Colts have had good quality small parts and metallurgy through all their different production runs. The prancing pony has history and character that no other 1911 can claim, and the traditional cosmetics are hard to beat for an elegant buildup. Being the original, Colts are of course available in the original Browning format – ie. Without a firing pin safety. The Series 80 firing pin safety system is easy to disassemble for routine maintenance, easy to time correctly, and a variety of aftermarket components are compatible with it.
One of Colt’s biggest problems has always been with quality control. Different vintages of Colts will exhibit machining and workmanship varying from exceptional to abysmal. Colts are notorious for a loose slide to frame fit, and this is still common even in some new production guns. Many Colts, especially the new production guns, have very sharp edges that preclude their use in stock condition. Countless variations of special featured Government models have been marketed over the years, but the best candidates are those most in line with the basic 5” 1911 in basic blue or parkerized.
Colt 1991A1, blue: The new rollmark 1991A1's are really pretty, and a return to Colt's glorious days of nice looking blued guns. Forged frame and slide, bar stock hammer, ejector, and extractor, and good quality small parts make these new Colts a great deal. A suitable candidate for any level buildup. I prefer these over both the older matte finished, big rollmark and the various MK IV Series 80 rollmark guns.
Colt XSE, blue: I love the cosmetics of the slide serrations and rollmarks on the current production guns. Unfortunately, they have numerous "custom" features that are poorly executed and will be discarded on a full house gun. The front strap high cut is unsightly and uncomfortable, but it can be recut. If you want a gun with modern cosmetics (ie. angled cocking serrations, front and rear) and a Colt horsie, this is the best choice to consider.
Colt Gunsite Pistol: If this pistol had the same style rollmarks as the XSE and was under $1000 street price (it doesn’t and it’s not), then it’d be super cool. Its main attraction is that it doesn’t have the Series 80 firing pin system. Otherwise, it’s a bit too much money as a basis for an extensive rebuild. If you must have one, a light reliability workover should be sufficient.
Colt Series 70: You better know what to look for, or else you'll get burned. Colt’s QC wandered dramatically during the Series 70 runs. The earlier, big letter (70G prefix and G70 suffix serial numbers) rollmark guns tend to be more mechanically solid, but an awful lot of the mid to late production small letter guns (70B prefix and B70 suffix serial numbers) were absolutely abhorrent. The slides on the “B for bad” serial number guns often had shallow or rolled radial lug cuts in the slide, which preclude the correct cycling of the gun. There is no saving such a specimen, and it is to be avoided at all costs. Other common issues include: lines/contours not machined straight, crooked or shallow slide rollmarks, thin or misshapen trigger guards, and thin or wavy front straps. A good specimen is a fantastic choice as a base gun, but it’s also very easy to end up with a turkey with some holes or other machining cuts in the wrong place. It’s currently safer to go with one of the new Colt Custom Shop Series 70’s or other available reproductions that they are making.
Colt pre-70 Commercial: Made in the 50's and 60's, most of these guns were examples of the best combination of metallurgy and quality control from Colt. Most are great base guns, but are very hard to find in condition that's usable but not collectable.
Colt Custom Shop Series 70, blued: A new production run of the small letter Series 70, they have all the cosmetic appeal of the old guns, but without many of the mechanical problems. My preferred choice for a base gun for any type of buildup. A bit more money to start, but worth it if you want the Colt tradition.
Colt Custom Shop WW I and WW II reproductions: Same benefits as the Series 70 reproduction, but being limited run items, these are significantly more expensive. If you find a good deal or simply must have one built up, go for it.
Colt Gold Cup: I saved the worst for last. The Gold Cup makes a poor choice as a base gun or even a basic using gun. The staked front sight is notorious for flying off, and the Elliason rear sight’s roll pin is equally well known for breaking. The slide’s raised rib also complicates and limits your cosmetic options. Some holsters won’t accommodate the ribbed slide. The frame is cut for a nonstandard wide shoe trigger, which severely limits your aftermarket replacement options. The factory serrated front strap will also limit your front strap texturing options.
Chip McCormick Corporation:
The CMC slides and frames are very good – forged from carbon steel with extremely consistent dimensional specs. I consider their high cut front strap to be the most tastefully executed of the slide/frame kits. The slides are cosmetically identical to the Kimbers, and use the same sight cuts. Many aftermarket sight options are available. They make exceptional 10-8 grade guns when doing a buildup from components.
Caspian:
Their slides have a solid and proven track record for longevity and performance, and offer unlimited flexibility for cosmetics and sight cuts. The Caspian cast frame makes a durable and cost effective platform for a working grade gun, and are now available with original 1911 format front strap high cut geometry (on special request). Those seeking to use a Caspian slide/frame kit for buildup should purchase them without the additional machining options (sight cuts, flat top slide, beavertail, or checkering), and be sure to check first with your gunsmith since the array of options is extremely comprehensive. Their factory slide to frame fitting is well done, and a viable option for many workups. A variety of slide grasping grooves are available, all of which are acceptable for custom buildup. For a cleaner look, I recommend that their slides be ordered without the Caspian logo. Their Recon light rail frame now features a Picatinny spec rail.
Kimber:
The early production (Series I) Kimbers were very functional for what they were meant to be and will perform well with only a minimum of tuning and parts replacement. However, if you wish to throw out all the parts to do a full house workover, you might as well start with a Chip McCormick slide/frame set. The latest production Series II guns are quite solid, and the firing pin safety appears to function as designed. The new external extractor is also a good feature, and should reduce the end user headaches with improper extractor tension.
Kimbers all feature forged slides and frames machined to close tolerances. Cosmetically, Kimber slides and frames are among the cleanest and most consistent of the production guns. The barrels are capable of excellent accuracy, and generally exhibit contact at the lower lugs, radial lugs, and the rear of the hood. The chambers are often a bit tight, and can benefit from reaming. The factory sights are installed with a hydraulic press, and fit extremely tightly in the slide. They will probably never come loose during use, and the hardness of the sights makes them unlikely to dent either. The downside to this is that if you need to make sight adjustments or wish to remove them for refinishing or other custom work, they’re not going to budge. Factory dehorn on the guns is workable, though they can always use more.
A disadvantage of the Series II firing pin safety is that the components do not come out of the slide for routine maintenance, so care should be used to service them properly in place. Since the factory sights cannot readily be removed and reinstalled if the slide is to be dehorned and refinished, this precludes the reuse of the factory night sights. The factory 30 lpi checkering is functional, but guns selected for any customization should have smooth, uncheckered frames to allow maximum flexibility in applying grip texturing.
Kimbers use a mixture of stainless and carbon steel parts, making refinishing quite a nightmare. A spray on finish is almost required to achieve a color match between all the components. For this reason, I recommend the stainless models to reduce refinishing costs for less involved buildups.
The limited production 25th Anniversary Model is my top recommendation in the Kimber lineup. It’s basically a new version of their original Custom model, without the Series II firing pin safety. Buy one now before production ceases. The next best option is the Custom II Stainless, which is the basic model with a smooth front strap. The all stainless construction reduces refinishing headaches. The Warrior light rail model, coming in 2005, will feature the Picatinny spec rail from the TLE/RL frame, and should be a leading choice in factory light rail 1911’s.
http://www.signaturegrade.com/sg/baseguns.html
enjoy :)
prefer to use and build only steel framed, 5" barreled 1911's in .45 ACP, just as JMB originally designed. That setup is hard to beat for reliability, durability, and shootability. Any deviation from that design - another caliber, shortened slide or frame, or lightened frame materials - represent some compromise and can create problems of their own. The altered formats can be made to work and have applications, but are not generally the top choice for serious work.
With today’s crowded 1911 market, it can be difficult to select the appropriate gun for the job. Careful consideration of your priorities and the intended role of the pistol will help greatly in the successful selection of the right 1911 for you.
Blued or stainless?
For a full house gun, carbon steel is the superior choice. Carbon steel frames and slides can be fit up tighter than stainless without any potential for galling. Hard fitting of a slide and frame involves peening, lapping, and generally forcing the components together and generating friction. In stainless, this is an ideal situation to induce galling. A stainless gun is best left with the factory slide to frame fit. Certain premium components are only available in carbon steel, so parts selection can sometimes be limited for a stainless gun.
Stainless is appropriate for a basic field or duty grade gun, but various finishes can also be applied to a carbon steel gun to improve its corrosion resistance. The popular spray/bake polymer finishes do not adhere as well to stainless, as it does not receive the same chemical etch (ie. Parkerizing) pretreatment before the application of the polymer outer coat. On the other hand, stainless is easily refinished by simply bead blasting the surface.
I don’t want a firing pin safety in my gun!
Firing pin safeties are a fact of life in new production 1911’s. Each manufacturer has their own solution, and each system has its little quirks. Some systems are more reliable and easier to work around than others. It’s your choice if you want to let the inclusion or exclusion of firing pin safety systems direct your selection of 1911’s.
What base gun should I use?
Following is my evaluation of commonly available 1911’s, and their positive and negative traits as base guns for custom work. By reading carefully, you should be able to select the right gun for your application.
Colt:
There are a plethora of Colts to choose from, but they all share certain traits, both positive and negative, in regards to their use as base guns. Historically, Colts have had good quality small parts and metallurgy through all their different production runs. The prancing pony has history and character that no other 1911 can claim, and the traditional cosmetics are hard to beat for an elegant buildup. Being the original, Colts are of course available in the original Browning format – ie. Without a firing pin safety. The Series 80 firing pin safety system is easy to disassemble for routine maintenance, easy to time correctly, and a variety of aftermarket components are compatible with it.
One of Colt’s biggest problems has always been with quality control. Different vintages of Colts will exhibit machining and workmanship varying from exceptional to abysmal. Colts are notorious for a loose slide to frame fit, and this is still common even in some new production guns. Many Colts, especially the new production guns, have very sharp edges that preclude their use in stock condition. Countless variations of special featured Government models have been marketed over the years, but the best candidates are those most in line with the basic 5” 1911 in basic blue or parkerized.
Colt 1991A1, blue: The new rollmark 1991A1's are really pretty, and a return to Colt's glorious days of nice looking blued guns. Forged frame and slide, bar stock hammer, ejector, and extractor, and good quality small parts make these new Colts a great deal. A suitable candidate for any level buildup. I prefer these over both the older matte finished, big rollmark and the various MK IV Series 80 rollmark guns.
Colt XSE, blue: I love the cosmetics of the slide serrations and rollmarks on the current production guns. Unfortunately, they have numerous "custom" features that are poorly executed and will be discarded on a full house gun. The front strap high cut is unsightly and uncomfortable, but it can be recut. If you want a gun with modern cosmetics (ie. angled cocking serrations, front and rear) and a Colt horsie, this is the best choice to consider.
Colt Gunsite Pistol: If this pistol had the same style rollmarks as the XSE and was under $1000 street price (it doesn’t and it’s not), then it’d be super cool. Its main attraction is that it doesn’t have the Series 80 firing pin system. Otherwise, it’s a bit too much money as a basis for an extensive rebuild. If you must have one, a light reliability workover should be sufficient.
Colt Series 70: You better know what to look for, or else you'll get burned. Colt’s QC wandered dramatically during the Series 70 runs. The earlier, big letter (70G prefix and G70 suffix serial numbers) rollmark guns tend to be more mechanically solid, but an awful lot of the mid to late production small letter guns (70B prefix and B70 suffix serial numbers) were absolutely abhorrent. The slides on the “B for bad” serial number guns often had shallow or rolled radial lug cuts in the slide, which preclude the correct cycling of the gun. There is no saving such a specimen, and it is to be avoided at all costs. Other common issues include: lines/contours not machined straight, crooked or shallow slide rollmarks, thin or misshapen trigger guards, and thin or wavy front straps. A good specimen is a fantastic choice as a base gun, but it’s also very easy to end up with a turkey with some holes or other machining cuts in the wrong place. It’s currently safer to go with one of the new Colt Custom Shop Series 70’s or other available reproductions that they are making.
Colt pre-70 Commercial: Made in the 50's and 60's, most of these guns were examples of the best combination of metallurgy and quality control from Colt. Most are great base guns, but are very hard to find in condition that's usable but not collectable.
Colt Custom Shop Series 70, blued: A new production run of the small letter Series 70, they have all the cosmetic appeal of the old guns, but without many of the mechanical problems. My preferred choice for a base gun for any type of buildup. A bit more money to start, but worth it if you want the Colt tradition.
Colt Custom Shop WW I and WW II reproductions: Same benefits as the Series 70 reproduction, but being limited run items, these are significantly more expensive. If you find a good deal or simply must have one built up, go for it.
Colt Gold Cup: I saved the worst for last. The Gold Cup makes a poor choice as a base gun or even a basic using gun. The staked front sight is notorious for flying off, and the Elliason rear sight’s roll pin is equally well known for breaking. The slide’s raised rib also complicates and limits your cosmetic options. Some holsters won’t accommodate the ribbed slide. The frame is cut for a nonstandard wide shoe trigger, which severely limits your aftermarket replacement options. The factory serrated front strap will also limit your front strap texturing options.
Chip McCormick Corporation:
The CMC slides and frames are very good – forged from carbon steel with extremely consistent dimensional specs. I consider their high cut front strap to be the most tastefully executed of the slide/frame kits. The slides are cosmetically identical to the Kimbers, and use the same sight cuts. Many aftermarket sight options are available. They make exceptional 10-8 grade guns when doing a buildup from components.
Caspian:
Their slides have a solid and proven track record for longevity and performance, and offer unlimited flexibility for cosmetics and sight cuts. The Caspian cast frame makes a durable and cost effective platform for a working grade gun, and are now available with original 1911 format front strap high cut geometry (on special request). Those seeking to use a Caspian slide/frame kit for buildup should purchase them without the additional machining options (sight cuts, flat top slide, beavertail, or checkering), and be sure to check first with your gunsmith since the array of options is extremely comprehensive. Their factory slide to frame fitting is well done, and a viable option for many workups. A variety of slide grasping grooves are available, all of which are acceptable for custom buildup. For a cleaner look, I recommend that their slides be ordered without the Caspian logo. Their Recon light rail frame now features a Picatinny spec rail.
Kimber:
The early production (Series I) Kimbers were very functional for what they were meant to be and will perform well with only a minimum of tuning and parts replacement. However, if you wish to throw out all the parts to do a full house workover, you might as well start with a Chip McCormick slide/frame set. The latest production Series II guns are quite solid, and the firing pin safety appears to function as designed. The new external extractor is also a good feature, and should reduce the end user headaches with improper extractor tension.
Kimbers all feature forged slides and frames machined to close tolerances. Cosmetically, Kimber slides and frames are among the cleanest and most consistent of the production guns. The barrels are capable of excellent accuracy, and generally exhibit contact at the lower lugs, radial lugs, and the rear of the hood. The chambers are often a bit tight, and can benefit from reaming. The factory sights are installed with a hydraulic press, and fit extremely tightly in the slide. They will probably never come loose during use, and the hardness of the sights makes them unlikely to dent either. The downside to this is that if you need to make sight adjustments or wish to remove them for refinishing or other custom work, they’re not going to budge. Factory dehorn on the guns is workable, though they can always use more.
A disadvantage of the Series II firing pin safety is that the components do not come out of the slide for routine maintenance, so care should be used to service them properly in place. Since the factory sights cannot readily be removed and reinstalled if the slide is to be dehorned and refinished, this precludes the reuse of the factory night sights. The factory 30 lpi checkering is functional, but guns selected for any customization should have smooth, uncheckered frames to allow maximum flexibility in applying grip texturing.
Kimbers use a mixture of stainless and carbon steel parts, making refinishing quite a nightmare. A spray on finish is almost required to achieve a color match between all the components. For this reason, I recommend the stainless models to reduce refinishing costs for less involved buildups.
The limited production 25th Anniversary Model is my top recommendation in the Kimber lineup. It’s basically a new version of their original Custom model, without the Series II firing pin safety. Buy one now before production ceases. The next best option is the Custom II Stainless, which is the basic model with a smooth front strap. The all stainless construction reduces refinishing headaches. The Warrior light rail model, coming in 2005, will feature the Picatinny spec rail from the TLE/RL frame, and should be a leading choice in factory light rail 1911’s.
