View Full Version : Which "Factory custom" 1911?
Hey all!
Well, started a new job in October (teaching K-8. Whew!). Anyway, I am now in the market for my first "high end" 1911. I was curious as to your recommendations/impressions of my "candidates". Now first let me say there are some things I definitely want and do not want. Here are the criteria..
Heinie slant pro rear with tritium front
Solid trigger (don't like the holes...never have)
No MIM
No ambi safety
NO forward cocking serrations (God I hate 'em)
blended S&A magwell
Maybe serrations on frontstrap (or most likely "naked")
Now that kind of narrows things down a bit. I was considering the Springfield "Professional" or maybe the "Talon" (they are willing and able to make the changes I want) from Nighthawk customs )www.nighthawkcustom.com). Nighthawk is 4 (or is it 5?) of the former Wilson master smiths that have left Wilson's and formed their own shop. I'm also considering a RRA or a Les Baer TRS. Any suggestions? So far guys like Dane Burns and John Harrison are recommending the Springfield Pro by a pretty wide margin. Does anyone have any experience with Nighthawk?
Oh yeah, the gun will be a range/IDPA queen. Until I get out of occupied MD, CCW is out of the question.
Rich
THELimey
01-31-2005, 01:37
I have owned two Springer PRO's if your not going full custom its probebly the best 'value' out there in a semi custom production gun similar setup from a decent builder would be very much more cash.
I have not seen a "Nighthawk" yet but the guys used to build the higher end Wilson guns i am sure they are very nice indeed.They are a "new" unproven company (despite the pedigree) in a very competative arena.The Springfield will hold its value and will be supported 'for ever'by the Custom shop with the absolute best service i have ever recieved from a firearms company and I suspect you would not get a comparable gun or long term absolute 'piece of mind'(If you care about that) from Nighthawk.For the pricepoint and if I were not carrying full custom guns or a P7 then i would still carry a "PRO" i highly recommend them they were built to a very exacting standard for a very demanding client you cannot go wrong.
the Nitehawks are top notch. can't wait until i can afford one.
Nalapombu
02-01-2005, 01:47
With your listed criteria whatever one of the HIGH end pistols you listed you are going to have to make changes to it and cost you more money. I'm not aware of a factory custom that comes with the specific parts and configuration that you list, that means more money to you. When you start making changes to these semi custom factory guns like the Thunder Ranch and the Springer Pro it also takes up a LOT of extra time. You might be able to get a Thunder Ranch in less than a week, but if you had to have the specific parts you list, it would be more like 4 or 5 months prolly.
I think your best bet, if you can't find a place that offers a gun built with the componens and features you want, is to look at a basic gun and then having it customed out. You could pick EVERY part that went into it that way and have it EXACTLY the way you want.
You are willing to spend a LOT of money and you can get a helluva gun for that. I would talk to Nighthawk, they are new and would be more likely to accomodate you quickly to build a customer base.
Absent that, I would get myself a basic NRM Colt or Mil Spec Springer and send it off to Ted Yost, Precision Gunworks, CT Brian or any of the dozens of shops that are slipping my mind right now. I think going that route would give you more pride of ownership than simply buying one out of dealer stock.
Let us know what you pick and post pics if you buy.
Nala
proguncali
02-01-2005, 12:04
Valtro.
www.valtrousa.com
Get it however you want it... The "stock" pistol is $1499 last time I checked...
freecdp45
02-01-2005, 12:09
Rock River Arms
breiss13
02-01-2005, 12:34
Go for the trs, It is always nice to have a question and just ask les about it. Oh did i mention this thing is a fricken hole punch.
quantico
02-02-2005, 01:12
I think you may end up at building with a custom maker.... otherwise the springfield pro is an excellent choice..
I've been thinkin' more and more about the Pro.
I called Les Baer, and they CAN do a TRS without forward cocking serrations, but they said the wait would be 14-16 weeks. However, they're too locked into using their own sights and Heine's are a no-go (as is the S&A magwell)
The wait on the Nighthawk is 3-4 weeks with the mods I requested. And they can do all the mods I requested. Keith was really cool on the phone. Now, some people are saying that "they're just like a Wilson" like it's a bad thing. Last time I checked Wilson made a damn fine 1911. Is there any reason I should be wary of Nighthawk?
freecdp45,
I've thought about gettin' in on the RRA's that are made for ADCO and then just getting the trigger swapped and a magwell added.
Nala,
I have a new Colt 70 series that I plan on sending to John Harrison for a "retro" type build, but I want something more "high speed" for IDPA and such. He said that if I get either the Springer, or RRA since the triggers are already great, he'd pretty much just only have to swap out the trigger and do some final tweaking.
Last time I checked the Valtro's weren't able to be customized. Maybe that has changed. Regardless, I've heard of guys waiting YEARS for theirs. I'm not that patient. ;Q
Keep it comin fellers!
Rich
PS. "Post Pics"?! Who can afford a digital camera when you spend all your money on guns?! ;f
THELimey
02-02-2005, 22:11
heres one of one of my PRO's
THELimey
02-02-2005, 22:12
another.......its a great Pistol.
If you know what you want, and are willing to spend $2k, don't get a "factory custom," just get a custom!
Redsnake
02-04-2005, 12:57
you might give these guys a try...
http://www.nowlinguns.com/merchant2/merchant.mv
very good and are willing to build what you'd like.
walangkatapat
02-05-2005, 09:16
If I had the dough I'd give a Trojan (http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Trojan5/Trojan5.html) a try.
I've handled a Trojan and it was nice, BUT I don't want forward cocking serrations.
Rich
Originally posted by MoNsTeR
If you know what you want, and are willing to spend $2k, don't get a "factory custom," just get a custom!
I hear ya' but I'm an impatient SOB. I plan on getting a "Factory custom" and in a couple months sending my Colt 70 series to John Harrison for something like this....
If I were to buy a semi-custom I would have to lean towards the Ed Brown line of pistols. They are priced along the lines of the rest of the semi-customs, but I find that they have a much better fit and finish. You really never hear of any dissatisfied customers of theirs either, parts or complete gun wise. It's still pretty much a family operation as Ed and his son's are totally involved in the entire operation from parts to guns.
I had the opportunity to meet Ed at Shot last week. To say the least, he's all business as is the rest of his crew and they care about their products.
Rinspeed
02-05-2005, 15:45
Originally posted by Critter
If I were to buy a semi-custom I would have to lean towards the Ed Brown line of pistols. They are priced along the lines of the rest of the semi-customs, but I find that they have a much better fit and finish. You really never hear of any dissatisfied customers of theirs either, parts or complete gun wise. It's still pretty much a family operation as Ed and his son's are totally involved in the entire operation from parts to guns.
I had the opportunity to meet Ed at Shot last week. To say the least, he's all business as is the rest of his crew and they care about their products.
Critter,
Seems to me that I've read posts by you saying you are not real big on the Les Baer pistols. If this is so, what is it that you don't like about them.
Rinspeed
hitecrednek
02-05-2005, 17:01
Ah, grasshopper.....seach the earth for a minty Series 70 Colt, then send it to one of the better custom gunsmiths...include your list of needs and you may then find inner peice.
Grasshoppa's workin' on that too. But I want something for the interim.
proguncali
02-05-2005, 20:48
Originally posted by Trumpet
Last time I checked the Valtro's weren't able to be customized. Maybe that has changed. Regardless, I've heard of guys waiting YEARS for theirs. I'm not that patient. ;Q
Keep it comin fellers!
Rich
PS. "Post Pics"?! Who can afford a digital camera when you spend all your money on guns?! ;f
Hmmm.... I'll call John on Monday and ask those questions. Never heard of waiting for years for one....
Please do and let me know what you find out. Last I heard guys were waiting up to a year and a half now. I shouldn't have said "years". My bad.
If a Valtro can be had without the forward cocking serrations, that might be something...
Rich
For a factory semi custom, I would just go with an Ed Brown. Personally I don't think the Valtro is worth the wait over any other. Soon my one of my 1991A1s will be making the trip to EGW for some light upgrade. I still can't believe you haven't found something yet Rich.
Rob, don't be surprised. These kind of decisions KILL me. Hell it took me a whole year of "browsing" stores before I finally decided on what cell phone to buy. ;) I like the Brown's a lot, but I'm not too sold on the "snakeskin". It seems like each day, there's another guy on the 1911forum that just got their new Nighthawk. I gotta say, my concerns are being slightly alleviated. Too bad I can't buy a SA Pro, Nighthawk, Brown, and RRA ;Q
Also I was wondering. Lots of critics of the Nighthawk say "they're just like Wilson", like it's a bad thing. Last time I checked Wilson made a pretty darn good blaster, right?
rich
Rich, I think Wilson makes a pretty good blaster. Some report a short time period of qc problems, some say it was in relationship to the guys from Nighthawk just before they left Wilsons crib. I am not sold on the snakeskin either, but Brown does have the regular guns. I would have a problem with Nighthawk not stating their parts source. If I couldn't get the Ed Brown, I would go with the Springer you mentioned.
I now what you mean about decision making. At night I lay in bed still trying to decide which Colt gets the trip to EGW. Will it be the stainless or the blue Colt that goes.^2
Good to hear I'm not the only one. Sometimes I lay awake in bed thinking "blued or stainless? Blued or stainless?" ;Q
I think something is wrong with us.;5
Originally posted by Rinspeed
Critter,
Seems to me that I've read posts by you saying you are not real big on the Les Baer pistols. If this is so, what is it that you don't like about them.
Rinspeed
I don't like the way they build them. The barrel lugs are cut incorrectly in my opinion, and this is the reason that they say it takes several hundred rounds to break them in and about a thousand so it doesn't take two men and a boy to rack the slide. Instead of a properly cut slope, it's got a weird angle on it that I cannot really explain. There was a history at one time of the barrel feet breaking on them about 25% of the time. There is also some behind the scenes things I've been told that aren't for public consumption about the barrels also which helps form my opinion, which after all, when it boils down, a reccomendation is nothing moe than an opinion.
Now, a lot of owners like them, they feel that the initial part of breaking it in somehow relates to the quality of the build, I just have a different personal and professional perspective on things.
I'll still stand by my reccomendation of the Ed Brown guns, they are really beautifully done.
Originally posted by freecdp45
Rock River Arms
What he said! ;z
Don't quite understand the laughter over the Rock River Arms comment. They make a great 1911. Perhaps you were confusing it with Rock Island?
Now THAT is worthy of a ;z
Rich
I like the Rock Rivers too, of course that';s the crew that made the Bears when the ears had a barel fit worth a crap, when they left, so did the quality. I've just not had enough experience with Rock River to reccomend them. This is soon changing though, I think I'm going to give their frames and slides a whirl from time to time.
Trumpet, I decided I wanted a 1911 and I had very demanding requirements as you do. Actually, I wanted a lot of what you want. The most demanding of my requirements was that the pistol be a CCO type 1911 (commander slide on an officers frame), and that the frame be lightweight.
I'm going the custom route. This way I can have everything I want (titanium frame, for example).
However, I really like the prospect of NightHawk custom. They even offer the choice of titanium as a frame material.
So, if I were you, I'd either start from scratch and have a fully custom pistol built, or I'd buy the Nighthawk. If I knew what I know now I'd go the Nighthawk route (otherwise the wait will be terrible).
Originally posted by Jeff S.
Trumpet, I decided I wanted a 1911 and I had very demanding requirements as you do. Actually, I wanted a lot of what you want. The most demanding of my requirements was that the pistol be a CCO type 1911 (commander slide on an officers frame), and that the frame be lightweight.
I'm going the custom route. This way I can have everything I want (titanium frame, for example).
However, I really like the prospect of NightHawk custom. They even offer the choice of titanium as a frame material.
So, if I were you, I'd either start from scratch and have a fully custom pistol built, or I'd buy the Nighthawk. If I knew what I know now I'd go the Nighthawk route (otherwise the wait will be terrible).
Rich (Trumpet), tried this route. He ran into a snag when he went out on his search for a Colt to do it with.
Originally posted by Rob96
Rich (Trumpet), tried this route. He ran into a snag when he went out on his search for a Colt to do it with.
Are you referring to the fact that it'll take about a year (or more) to have one built (and not just trying to find the colt)?
Yeah, it's a killer. The wait sucks (I know; I'm waiting!). Personally I prefer the wait as long as I know I'm getting exactly what I want (and nothing more).
Didn't Rich say that he could get the NightHawk in 3-4 weeks with the mods he wants? Sounds like a deal to me! I may have gone with NightHawk if I'd known they offered titanium frames.
A couple of months back, Rich wanted to buy a new roll marked Colt and send it off to have his modifications done. I tried helping him out by searching high and low for a new Colt. But it was futile. I think that is why he is looking at the semi-custom factory guns.
Originally posted by Rob96
A couple of months back, Rich wanted to buy a new roll marked Colt and send it off to have his modifications done. I tried helping him out by searching high and low for a new Colt. But it was futile. I think that is why he is looking at the semi-custom factory guns.
Bingo. However, 1911-hound AJohnson has convinced me to send out my Colt 70 to John Harrison for some work anyway. I'm thinking of a "retro" combat gun. Hopefully I'll do it sometime this summer. But the "factory custom" is for the "immediate gratification" factor. :cool:
And yes, Nighthawk quoted me three to four WEEKS.
Rich
I see.
So, is the NightHawk still an option for him?
BTW, what about starting from complete scratch (using a Caspian frame/slide)?
Originally posted by Trumpet
And yes, Nighthawk quoted me three to four WEEKS.
3-4 weeks isn't a wait at all! LOL.
You know, if you bought the NightHawk you could, in 3-4 weeks, have ammo, magazines, and leather all waiting for her.
I understand, though, the whole custom thing would take forever. For me the wait kinda helped because it's allowing me to save. It all works out ;f
Looks like my options are...
Nighthawk...will build exactly how I want it
Brown Kobra or Executive....would have to add magwell and swap out "holed" trigger, and add Heinies
Springfield Pro....see Brown mods.
Pros and cons to all of 'em ;Q
Rich
Originally posted by Jeff S.
[B]3-4 weeks isn't a wait at all! LOL.
Oh Yeah, I know. I meant the WEEKS as opposed to 3-4 YEARS for guys like Heinie.
;P
Rich
There's a reason that the Nighthawks have a quick turn. I hope you don't think these guys are majicians or something.
Originally posted by Critter
There's a reason that the Nighthawks have a quick turn. I hope you don't think these guys are majicians or something.
Why do you say this? What is the "reason" you speak of? Nobody said they are magicians; I just assumed that their quick turn-around time was due to their being a relatively new player. Do you have experience with them?
Rinspeed
02-07-2005, 06:32
Originally posted by Jeff S.
Why do you say this? What is the "reason" you speak of? Nobody said they are magicians; I just assumed that their quick turn-around time was due to their being a relatively new player. Do you have experience with them?
Critter doesn't have to have experience with them. He knows how long it takes to produce a true custom.
Rinspeed
The guy that makes Night HAWK used to work for WILSON and be one of their master gunsmiths
Night hawk knows what he is doing
I saw a few samples of their work at Shot! I hate to say it, but I was a bit underwhelmed, but I have always been underwhelmed with the Wilson line of firearms also. RRA did a much better departure from LB than the Wilson crew did, but once again, that's just one person's opinion. BTW, I never said they didn't know what they are doing, I just wasn't impressed, and since quality of workmanship has always been more important to me than time, I have a little different perspective on things.
Mud, how many Nighthawks have you handled? Am I missing something?
only played with two or 3
i think i mis read Rinspeeds post
meaning that NIGHT HAWK DIDNT have expierence with 1911's
not meaning that some one should know how long a costom takes
for what its worth im saving for a springfield PRO
Jerseycitysteve
02-22-2005, 18:04
Originally posted by hitecrednek
Ah, grasshopper.....seach the earth for a minty Series 70 Colt, then send it to one of the better custom gunsmiths...include your list of needs and you may then find inner peice.
I love this post:cool:
Alaskapopo
02-25-2005, 22:57
How do you get a hold of Night hawk and are they doing light rail guns.
Pat
Alaskapopo
02-26-2005, 05:26
Thanks Rob
I took a look and did not see any light rail guns. I am a bit frustrated. I called Wilson and they said they are backed up by 4 to 6 months on the rail guns. I called Les Baer and he will not install a dawson rail on a TRS. My Kimber is still being refinished. So I will not be getting it back anytime soon. I miss my 1911's.
Pat
I think the best thing to do Pat, is to call or email Nighthawk. From what I have read on them, they seem to be acoomadating to peoples personal requests.
Alaskapopo
02-26-2005, 20:17
One more question how does the top of the line springfield with rails compare with Wilson and Les Baer. Thanks in advance guys.
Pat
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