can i get in trouble for using my neighbors wireless acess? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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97guns
01-30-2005, 23:03
my brother came over today with his laptop and discovered someone nearby has a wi-fi signal and tapped in on it. can i get in trouble by using his access or is it like going to starbucks? i was thinking about buying a card for my laptop. tia

NetNinja
01-30-2005, 23:18
Well that all depends what you are going to do. If all you are going to do is surf the web and get email then it shouldn't be a problem.

If you are going to play games and such and suck all thier bandwidth then there might be a problem when they discover thier internet service has come to a crawl.

I don't think there is any law you are breaking unless you are doing
something illegal.

97guns
01-30-2005, 23:23
thanks, it'll be just for surfing . no kiddie porn. if he wanted to do so could he detect me using his service and identify me?

Poppa Bear
01-30-2005, 23:28
Nothing illegal unless you start trying to hack into his computer. My connection can only be sniffed out by a determined person. My SSID is not broadcast, and my laptop only logs in enough to establish the connection so unless they sniff my laptop during the logon process they should not know I am out here. Even if they find my connection they need to access the user name and password to log onto the router. I have 5 wireless accounts around me that I know of. 3 are open, 2 are locked and the best signal I have gotten from any of them is 24%, the usual if at all is less than 10%.

Poppa Bear
01-30-2005, 23:31
thanks, it'll be just for surfing . no kiddie porn. if he wanted to do so could he detect me using his service and identify me?

He can identify your MAC address but will be unable to ID your computer unless your security is so low that he can log into your hardrive.

jptsr1
01-30-2005, 23:33
I guess its questionable weather its illegal or not but id equate it to tapping your neighbors cable or using his water. Robbing an individual of bandwidth is not cool. Hitting up a corporation for a stray connection is cool though LOL. But seriously, if someone was tapping me regularly they better not make the mistake of either staying connected too long or while they weren’t monitoring there computer because id definitely nuke them.

J.

Sgt. Schultz
01-30-2005, 23:37
Originally posted by NetNinja
I don't think there is any law you are breaking unless you are doing something illegal.

It doesn’t matter if you access his computer or not, you are still hacking into his network and that is illegal.

Poppa Bear
01-30-2005, 23:40
You can use my bandwidth all you want. You just have to find it first and get through the security second!!

The MAC address security makes it easy because only 2 computers have the authorized MAC addresses and they are both mine.

Poppa Bear
01-30-2005, 23:48
Just checked my wireless card site survey, I have two sites open to me right now beside my locked system. One uses an SSID of wireless, the other uses default. This tells you how serious some people are about their computer security. The 2 locked systems, neither of which is on right now, both use unique SSID names even if they have not disabled SSID broadcasting.

Washington,D.C.
01-31-2005, 00:18
In America it is illegal.It's stealing a service.In Canada just about anything goes but only 30 million people in all of Canada.In Baltimore,Maryland there is free wireless service but you must register to use it and be a registered user so they know who you are.

SamBuca
01-31-2005, 03:40
No one is "hacking" into anything ;Q

If you would go over and use your neighbors gas grille sitting out back without asking him, then go ahead and use his wifi network.

Harlequin
01-31-2005, 05:41
No, you aren't "hacking", but the analogy of using your neighbor's water or cable is true. Simply because his spigot is outside doesn't give you the right to hook a hose to it. Just because my cable access point is outside, and I have cable internet, doesn't give my neighbor the right to hook onto my cable and use my internet.

It's true that anything broadcast is public domain and can be monitored. That's why you don't give sensitive information over a cordless phone. But monitoring a broadcast and hijacking it are two different things.

HerrGlock
01-31-2005, 06:37
If your neighbour really wanted to get picky...

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 121 > § 2701 Prev | Next

§ 2701. Unlawful access to stored communications

Release date: 2004-08-06

(a) Offense.— Except as provided in subsection (c) of this section whoever—
(1) intentionally accesses without authorization a facility through which an electronic communication service is provided; or
(2) intentionally exceeds an authorization to access that facility;
and thereby obtains, alters, or prevents authorized access to a wire or electronic communication while it is in electronic storage in such system shall be punished as provided in subsection (b) of this section.
(b) Punishment.— The punishment for an offense under subsection (a) of this section is—
(1) if the offense is committed for purposes of commercial advantage, malicious destruction or damage, or private commercial gain, or in furtherance of any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or any State—
(A) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both, in the case of a first offense under this subparagraph; and
(B) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense under this subparagraph; and
(2) in any other case—
(A) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 1 year or both, in the case of a first offense under this paragraph; and
(B) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both, in the case of an offense under this subparagraph that occurs after a conviction of another offense under this section.
(c) Exceptions.— Subsection (a) of this section does not apply with respect to conduct authorized—
(1) by the person or entity providing a wire or electronic communications service;
(2) by a user of that service with respect to a communication of or intended for that user; or
(3) in section 2703, 2704 or 2518 of this title.
_______________________________________________

Is anyone going to go this far for unauthorized use of network resources? Probably not, but it is still a violation of the US Code.

Ask your neighbour. Get permission, then you do not have to worry about it.

DanH

Sgt. Schultz
01-31-2005, 06:43
Sorry guys but deliberate or not ... gaining access to a computer or network is hacking and it is illegal ... as Washington, DC said it’s also theft of service.

Washington,D.C.
01-31-2005, 07:02
Originally posted by Harlequin
No, you aren't "hacking", but the analogy of using your neighbor's water or cable is true. Simply because his spigot is outside doesn't give you the right to hook a hose to it. Just because my cable access point is outside, and I have cable internet, doesn't give my neighbor the right to hook onto my cable and use my internet.

It's true that anything broadcast is public domain and can be monitored. That's why you don't give sensitive information over a cordless phone. But monitoring a broadcast and hijacking it are two different things. It is illegal to receive unauthorized cellphone,satelite TV and wireless internet in America.In Canada the view is more like anything broadcast is public domain.That's why cellphone acanners and satelite descramblers are legal in Canada.I remember when the internet first went public/commercial,in Holland hacking into businesses/govts used to be legal.After a lot of international corp spying in Holland they later outlawed it there too.You wireless connection is not just receiving but is also transmitting signals but it wouldn't matter.

mcole
01-31-2005, 14:22
it is theft of service. mcole

SamBuca
01-31-2005, 14:23
Originally posted by Sgt. Schultz
Sorry guys but deliberate or not ... gaining access to a computer or network is hacking and it is illegal ... as Washington, DC said it’s also theft of service.
You sound like an ignorant, liberal, media sheeple when you say that.

HACKING is changing computer code for kicks.

CRACKING is bypassing security and breaking into a system.

You're doing neither when you passively sniff for wifi transmissions (completely legal except for allocated mobile phone bands) or when you hop on someone's network. It's not illegal...it's a fuzzy grey area that hasn't been tested enough in court. There's been what...1 case of this in court so far? The most you could get in that ancient theft of service.

jptsr1
01-31-2005, 14:32
Hacking
a. To write or refine computer programs skillfully.
b. To use one's skill in computer programming to gain illegal or unauthorized access to a file or network: hacked into the company's intranet.

J.

weiser09
01-31-2005, 15:42
Put all the legal mumbo jumbo aside. Ask yourself this question. If you were paying for broadband internet service, would you want a neightbor to use your bandwidth without your knowledge? If you answered no, then don't do it yourself.

Sgt. Schultz
01-31-2005, 15:56
Originally posted by SamBuca

HACKING is changing computer code for kicks.

CRACKING is bypassing security and breaking into a system.



All you have to do is use Google and you would find the same definition of hacking that jptsr1 posted.

Whether it's hacking or simply theft of service, are you using this board to condone an illegal act? By the way the cable company spends quite a bit of money prosecuting people for theft of service every year.

Poppa Bear
01-31-2005, 16:50
I do not see a problem with using my neighbor’s internet connection to surf the net. I mean I get a whopping 24% rated connection that comes and goes. With this kind of connection why should I use my own?

OK, it is one thing if you mooch off your neighbor for your entire connection, but I still prefer a dedicated connection of my own that does not come and go. (3 Meg cable) So too the original question; if it is your intent to surf on his connection exclusively don’t do it. If it is your intent to surf using yours but can also access his connection, then he is an idiot for not securing it.

I will also admit it was nice finding an available connection last week while I was in the restaurant eating that allowed me to check my mail. So the real question is are you logging into an open public access point (Hot Spot) or just finding an unsecured WiFi connection? There are several places around town here that have hot spots set up for their customers. I have stayed at several hotels that are set up for wireless because it is easier than wiring the rooms for high-speed. I had one that advertised high-speed internet, when I complimented them on the wireless access the following morning they said some rooms are hard wired for high-speed and they did not offer wireless. So where did my connection come from?

Jtemple
01-31-2005, 17:55
Originally posted by 97guns
thanks, it'll be just for surfing . no kiddie porn. if he wanted to do so could he detect me using his service and identify me? If he's not savvy enough to lock down his network, he's not savvy enough to figure out that it's you using it.

SamBuca
01-31-2005, 18:30
Originally posted by Sgt. Schultz
All you have to do is use Google and you would find the same definition of hacking that jptsr1 posted.
That definition is incorrect. The fact someone needs to search for clarification tells all...it also speaks for the level of expertise and knowledge of the individual.

bachchoy
01-31-2005, 18:35
interesting

97guns
01-31-2005, 18:48
all i know is its an unsecured network, for all i know its coming from one of the dozens of businesses thats within 2 blocks of me. and yes if it is indeed my neighbor that is foolish enough to leave it unsecured then YES im foolish enough to use it.

Sgt. Schultz
01-31-2005, 20:26
Your wrong ... that definition is correct ... you sir are out of touch with the current times. Time changes everything, including the definitions of terms.

Originally posted by SamBuca
You're doing neither when you passively sniff for wifi transmissions (completely legal except for allocated mobile phone bands) or when you hop on someone's network. It's not illegal...it's a fuzzy grey area that hasn't been tested enough in court.

You are 100 % right you can sniff for wifi transmissions all you want but the moment you “hop onto someone’s network” you are breaking the law. You could ask the FBI, I’m sure that they will clarify that "fuzzy grey area" for you.

By the way "unauthorized access to a file or network" is now part of the legal definition of hacking, if you disagree go to a law library or call a lawyer.

As for my level of expertise and knowledge, I have worked in this field for 10 years, I have/am CLP, CLP CNA, MCP certified and I will be testing for my MCSE next month. I use every tool at my disposal including, books, magazines, coworkers/friends in my field and yes ... even Google. You should give it a try sometime; it might help you to remove your head from the sand or what ever orifice it’s currently in!

Even if you still disagree that it’s hacking its still theft of service and that sir is a crime!

powernoodle
01-31-2005, 21:28
If your neighbor doesn't want you using his connection, he should keep his signal out of your living room.

I have spoken.

best regards

grantglock
01-31-2005, 22:08
I have my access point wide open at my house. My neighbors are free to use it as long as they don't abuse it. I check it every once and a while and nobody ever uses it but its there. I should mention I work for the company that sells DSL here in town so If I can get someone hooked on fast internet it could be a new sale. I would also hope that if I am ever staying at a friends house I could get a quick wireless connection to check my email. What goes around comes around.

SamBuca
01-31-2005, 22:24
As for my level of expertise and knowledge, I have worked in this field for 10 years, I have/am CLP, CLP CNA, MCP certified and I will be testing for my MCSE next month. I use every tool at my disposal including, books, magazines, coworkers/friends in my field and yes ... even Google. You should give it a try sometime; it might help you to remove your head from the sand or what ever orifice it’s currently
This is the same attitude which got us "assault weapons" as a buzzword in the public. "Hacking" sounds more dangerous than "cracking"...so let's make EVERYTHING "hacking" so it'll scare everyone.

I'm thoroughly disappointed in your academic programs and professors for not clearly making this a part of your vocabulary and properly teaching history. This is me scoffing them for spitting out another MCSE guy: scoff scoff scoff.

97guns
02-04-2005, 16:10
it's alright guys, i found this and it declares me the winner

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109941/

hapuna
02-04-2005, 16:23
Originally posted by 97guns
it's alright guys, i found this and it declares me the winner

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109941/

I agree. If you are sitting in your house and the signal is available and unsecured then I don't think you will find any legal issue.
Its only like using someone else's water spigot if that spigot is on your property.:)

Alexit
02-04-2005, 17:28
[i]So the real question is are you logging into an open public access point (Hot Spot) or just finding an unsecured WiFi connection? [/B]

Do you ever KNOW that the connection your Airsnort found is dedicated public or just open?

When I sit at B&N, I grab a connection and use it to surf...maybe its the one Barnes and Noble setup for their customers, but maybe its from the lawyers offices above or across the street - How would you know that SSID=Default is something illegal?

kAr
02-04-2005, 21:11
I consider it like an apple tree. If the neighbors apple tree drop apples in my yard, I'm going to make use of them. If the neighbor doesn't want me using the apples he paid to water and fertilize, he can keep the tree trimmed. If someone wants to put publicly shared radio transmissions in my area, and doesn't make any attempt to secure them, then I may just take advantage of it. On the other hand, if they don't want to share, it's easy to keep the casual browsers off their network.

Harlequin
02-06-2005, 06:43
Sarge and Sam are getting a little ugly in here.

This entire debate is one reason I keep my network wired. I don't have this problem. I'm not an expert but I would think that if someone could (piggyback, hack, crack, use, steal, whatever) my wireless service they could read what I'm doing as well. I don't need some techweenie getting my online shopping information or my passcode to Xbox Live.

Wired might be less convenient, especially with laptops, but it makes this entire thread moot.