Subgun for CCW.

[gaijin]

The folding stock UZI - without a doubt.

Remember the video of the Reagan shooting? That UZI was out and at the ready in no time.


------------------
Big Dawg 484
G21, G26
Ruger 454 Casull
AR-15, Benelli M1 Tactical M
NRA Benefactor Member
GOA Life Member
NSRPA Life Member
SA 1911-A1 - I had to!

[Zathras]

Subguns are legal for CCW in Vermont -- without a license, too, yet. What a state.

As to which one I'd carry, not sure, but offhand, I'd think either Uzi pistol or MP5K.

[Bubbles]

Unfortunately only handguns are legal for CCW in Virginia.

If they were allowed, I figure it'd be either the Mac or maybe a Mini-Uzi.

[shooter2]

How 'bout a plain old G18? http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/smile.gif Or a G26 with select-fire mod, similar to what "Sickboy" in the Philippines had done?

If we're talking true SMGs, I'd favor an HK MP5K-PDW or a Steyr TMP. The folding stock would be rigged to auto-deploy on the drawstroke, and would carry a couple long mags on the offside of the shoulder rig. Sweet!

Uzis are nice, but too damn heavy and the Mini has got a freakish cyclic rate on it...



------------------
-Shooter
http://www.indy.net/~shooter2
Sport Shooting - Reloading - Paintball

[Tamara]

...in a perfect world, that is. http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/wink.gif

How many would, in the winter months at least, think about toting one? From the MACs and the Bushmaster bullpup .223 with its swiveling reciever to the MP5K PDW and FN P90, there's a lot of cool ones out there. Which one would look best under a winter coat for those days when you're being stalked by hordes of terrorist ninjas at the mall? http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/wink.gif

I'm a MP5K fan, m'self. http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/supergrin.gif

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Tamara's House of Weapons: If we can't kill it, it's immortal.
10 Ring #2910, Wheelhouse #6254455, Top Guns *.357sig* club, Big Dawg #447
MOLON LABE!

[Tamara]

Surprised we have as many open-bolt votes as we do. (Or maybe I just can't shoot an open-bolt Uzi or MAC nearly as well as I can the MP5 and so I'm blaming the hardware and not the operating nut! http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/embarass.gif )

------------------
Tamara's House of Weapons: If we can't kill it, it's immortal.
10 Ring #2910, Wheelhouse #6254455, Top Guns *.357sig* club, Big Dawg #447
MOLON LABE!

[lendringser]

The Uzi is a bit too big for CCW. We had them in the armory, and they're fun on night exercises because of their light weight and capacity...but I wouldn't want to tote one under anything less than a long coat.

I'd like one of those new H&K PDWs, although that FN P90 is not that humongous either. The HK MP5-PDW is pretty compact, too.

For the ultimate in full-auto totability, however, consider a Skorpion, Micro-Uzi, Glock 18 or Beretta 93R. (I know, I know, the Beretta only does three-round bursts...)



------------------
---
"Pacifism is a shifty doctrin under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay--and claims a halo for his dishonesty." -Robert A.Heinlein

10 Ring #2010

[SCOTT THE BADGER]

I also would vote for the HK PDW. The only downside I can see to it, other than it's complete unavailability, is ammunition supply, as the 4.6mm is also going to be scarce. A HK MP5K would also be hard to beat, but I think that you would be just as well off with your P7. (Which model P7 do you have anyway, a M13, I hope?)

[mado]

Since I don't have any SMGs other than my pair of MAC-11's, I'd have to go with both of them in that concealed double shoulder rig I've seen. Of course I'd have to get myself a nice leather trenchcoat! I could see the BGs running at the sight of that now.

[LEO2002]

Both FN P90 and MP5K would be excellent IMHO. Only thing, if I had a MP5K I would have to get that SAS CRW-outfit. You know, the black suit, body armor and the wicked respirator/comm unit headgear. (GSG-9 uniform would do too, thank you very much.) Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. Would I be fastroping in thru windows on all my DV calls. http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/wink.gif Ok, that wasn't really CCW, but just had to bring that up.

Seriously (yeah, right... http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/supergrin.gif) I'd hafta go with the P90. Armor penetration is a must since the mall ninjas are known to duct tape trauma plates to their chest hair. http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/supergrin.gif

Ok, now, for real. I'd go with MP5, surefire fore-end and a retractable stock. Not as small as MP5K, but not real big either. Top it off with an optic sight and let's rock. http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/smile.gif

[MrMurphy]

I don't own any Class III weapons, and in Texas you can't CCW with them anyways. But I think in wintertime a Mini-Uzi with the 25 round mag, or the TMP with a shooting sling would do good. Of course the Uzi-in-a-bag and MP5-in-a-briefcase work too.

Knew a friend of mine in Israel who commonly packs a Mini-Uzi under a photog vest when he's not on duty. On duty, of course, he has a CAR-15/M4.

[Cal 931]

Can't resist putting in a good word for the H&K .45 cal UMP. Little big under a coat, but, IMHO, buries the MP5 in terms of performance and price. Plus the same ammo as a Government Model.

[Cal 931]

If you like the FAMAS, how about the AUG?

[TED]

On concealability, I'd vote for the FNP90 with two or three spare mags on the off side.
The fact that the mag isn't protruding greatly enhances its concealability.

TED

[Cyclic]

here's one no ones thought of..... I'd love a 9mm Calico subgun with the 100 rd clip talk about fire power in a small package!

[MrMurphy]

I thought about the Calico. But I'm not sure if they're even made anymore, and getting magazines would be far harder for a Calico than for an Uzi or MP5 if you travel.

[tall terry]

H&K MP5SD, swift and silent

[PM 7]

Okay, I am suprised no one thought of or mentioned this but Beretta 93R. Selct fire, concealable(even here in Ga.), folding stock(detachable)Magazines easy to conceal. Just remember, "its all fun and games until someone loses an eye, then its just fun!"

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The only thing neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men(or women) to do nothing!

[AC37]

I would carry 4 select-fire plasma smgs in the 100-watt range, 4 laser smgs in the 50-watt range, and 4 Glock-26s with 3 round burst mode!!!

Oh, yeah, and two FNp-90s with 4 extra clips each. In deep concealment.

Just remember, "its all fun and games until someone loses an eye, then its just fun!"

Did I mention the Class IIIa body armor as well? http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/smile.gif

[The Quiet Man]

Wow. and I thought I was nuts??????????????

[bouncey]

Just this very morning I was thinking how spiffy it would be to have a suppressed Uzi for home defense. Too bad I don't have the money for one, or the patience to wait for paperwork. Blah. Guess I'll have to keep using pistols for now.

-- bouncey in Norman OK

[subgunner]

Well I can't carry a subgun CCW here, but if I could, I would carry what I own, either one of my MP-5k models with the A3 stock in a shoulder rig.

IMO those PDW models with the side folder stocks are just too bulky under the arm.

We're talking personal protection here right?
Because the G-3k is pretty handy too!

[This message has been edited by subgunner (edited 03-09-2001).]

[BlackBelt]

I'd carry a MAC in .45 ACP. I've shot them enough to be comfortable shooting 3 round bursts.
An interesting note about the MP5K-PDW. I read an article by Ken Hackathorne about how he had never seen a MP5 sear gun go past the first 3000 rounds without a malfunction, but he had never seen a factory MP5 malfunction that soon. I own the flemming HK sear gun conversions, and I've found his observations to be true. When my K-gun goes down, it's usually a jam that requires a minute to clear, which in a tactical sense would render the weapon no good to me, and require a transition to my sidearm.
Now, I don't ever remember any jams in that 45 caliber MAC.
Aawww, shucks, I'd just carry a 12 guage anyway...

[turbonatr]

Originally posted by Tamara:
...in a perfect world, that is. http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/wink.gif




In a perfect world, there wouldn't be a need to carry a gun for self defense http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/wink.gif



------------------
Glock/Mossberg/AR-15 The Combat Team
G21/G30 The most versatile Glocks Gaston offers.
450Marlin, Big and Fast!
Big Dawg #16..40 #23..Niners #1919..357Sig

[MarcT]

Go for the mp5k-PDW.It was built for the purpose you suggested.It comes with a holster.When you pull out the pdw, the folding stock comes out and locks its self in the fire position.it also comes with a supressor.It's got a higher range than all teh others you stated.Though the half-circle sight is not that good for long distance contrarly to teh full circle on a normal mp5, but remember, it was designed for rather small engagement distances with a lot of enemies to shoot at.It would be perfect for your ninjas at teh mall(make sure they really are ninjas and not kids from the local karate class!)

------------------
If you didn't win, your probably lying on the ground with body full of lead.

[dvc]

That would be easy. A brace of micro-Uzi's in .45ACP carried in a double shoulder rig concealed by a black leather bomber jacket.
(think Invasion U.S.A)

[glockster72]

ok how about a 12 ga remington autoloader cut down on a harness under a trench coat?
from scattergun technologies of course i hate that they moved from here in nashville to the south west

[CyberGlocker]

G18 with mag adaptor( http://www.ccfa.com/glock.htm ) or steyr TMP!
Anything bigger or heavier would make long lasting carrying impossible.
I also believe that the G18 with an adaptor would be pretty controllable also

[shooter2]

Colinz:

Saw a pic of a gun like you describe in a magazine several years ago. IIRC, it was a conversion done by Bill Fleming, called the HK-51K. Basically a G3 or HK91 chopped down to MP5K dimensions, complete with receiver end cap (no stock), vertical foregrip and all. Only one was made.

Geez, and I thought those 10-inch barrel "entry" FALs would create some muzzle blast... the 51K must be a nightmare!



------------------
-Shooter
http://www.indy.net/~shooter2
Sport Shooting - Reloading - Paintball

[Colinz]

Does anybody remember someone customizing HK91:s (=G3k?)?

When he was finished they where about the same size and look as the MP5k. Just with the small difference in caliber, 9x19 vs his 7,62. First time I saw one of them I thought:"Big deal, another MP5k - heey, what kind of Big Bertha magazine is that?".

Looked like a cool gun even if the muzzlevelocity suffered because the barrel was so short. What if you used ammo meant for a machinegun in the same caliber where each bullet had five "cones" that separated (1 bullet becomes 5, can´t remember the name).

A serious gun for all the mall ninjas out there even if: "/.../the HK's just wouldn't cut it." - when Gecko45 with team tried them.

/Colinz

BTW nice forum, just found out about it.

[WetPhoneBook]

My personal Choice:
http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/pdw/pdwfold.gif

------------------
Big Dawg #783 (G30)
“I did NOT learn everything I need to know in kindergarten”


[This message has been edited by WetPhoneBook (edited 03-30-2001).]

[G31]

I'd go with the MP5K over the PDW anyday. Folded, the PDW stock makes the gun WAY too thick and bulky to carry concealed under a normal coat. The HK tactical rig is too uncomfortable to wear all day.

The MP5K with a 15-rnd mag attached to a leather sling is a better choice, but is still on the heavy side @ just under 5 lbs.

I'd personally take a Serbu Super Shorty--a cut-down Mossberg that holds 2 rounds.

[This message has been edited by G31 (edited 04-01-2001).]

[WetPhoneBook]

The MP5K is for strongside carry. The PDW is only for backup:
http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/mp5k/mp5k.gif


[This message has been edited by WetPhoneBook (edited 04-02-2001).]

[dctag]

I would carry a chopped down USAS 12 automatic shotgun with the 20 rnd drum on the strongside and 1 extra drum on my weakside. And in a sob rig I would carry a chopped down M-79

[MUNK]

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHH that would be sweeeeeet! No MACs though. I shot one in Vegas and with its comical rate of fire it is imposible to aim. Give me the MP5k with the stock that automaticaly folds out when you draw it. Three extra 30rd mags underneath the off arm. Never shot an MP5k but I shot an MP5 in Vegas, IT ROCKS I mean. . . Oh how can you describe?

That would make you one BAAAAAD MUTHA

[r2kba]

I'd have to go with a mac11, since I own one... But in tx, you cant carry a MG anyway, and glock18 is out, since nobody can own them.

MUNK:

It's called a " rate-reducer" :) Tames that wild cyclic rate. Besides, you front me the 8,000$ for an mp5, and I'll gladly add it to my collection, but I gotta pay rent, and eat, and stuff..........

[JD Brown]

Greetings:

A BIG overcoat and a MAG-58.

(I know, it's not a subgun :,)

Regards, Jim Brown

[RenegadeGlocker]

Originally posted by gaijin
The folding stock UZI - without a doubt.

Remember the video of the Reagan shooting? That UZI was out and at the ready in no time.




Illegal for CCW in Texas.

By the time that Uzi was out, Hinckley was in cuffs and Reagan was well on his way to the hospital. He was carrying that Uzi in a briefcase, not on his person, that is why it took so long. If you look at photos of the scene, you can see the open briefcase on the ground.

A better solution is a Uzi shoulder holster or a PDW with an operation briefcase.

[G31]

Where's my brain? I already posted to this topic.:rolleyes:

[dctag]

It would be nice to carry a SAW with a shortened barrell and no stock under the arm and 2 ammo bags. This of course under a huge duster.

[r2kba]

Originally posted by RenegadeGlocker


Illegal for CCW in Texas.

operation briefcase.


You know, guys, I've been looking through the TX law, and i cant find where it says you'll be charged with a crime for carrying a maginegun..........Can someone show me the text?

Is there an point in owning or useing a subgun that is semi-auto only?

[Zathras]

Originally posted by Coyote 10MM
Is there an point in owning or useing a subgun that is semi-auto only?

Umm, if it were semi-auto only, it wouldn't be a subgun, would it?

I mean I have seen subgun "types" like Uzi around that are not full auto

[Zathras]

Originally posted by Coyote 10MM
I mean I have seen subgun "types" like Uzi around that are not full auto

Yes, I understand what you meant. My point was that it's not meaningful to talk about a "subgun that fires only semi-auto." It's a contradiction in terms. It's like talking about a "vegetarian who eats beef" or a "virgin who has had sex".

[AC37]

Zathras, I know this is waaay off the subject, but isn't the character Zathras that one time-traveling alien in Babylon 5?

Why don't you have an avatar of him instead of a Companion?

Just curious...

BTW, I did enjoy that character.

"No, not the One." ;a

[Zathras]

Originally posted by AC37
Zathras, I know this is waaay off the subject, but isn't the character Zathras that one time-traveling alien in Babylon 5?

Why don't you have an avatar of him instead of a Companion?

Just curious...

BTW, I did enjoy that character.

"No, not the One." ;a

Good eye, sir. Yes, you are correct, and I know it seems a little incongruous to use the handle Zathras and have Da'an as my avatar. Originally, I was going to use a Zathras avatar, but decided on Da'an instead because it serves as a kind of "broader introduction", if you follow me. That is, by seeing my user name and the avatar, you automatically know that I'm a big fan of those two shows, which in turn would probably tell you something about the kind of person that I am, assuming of course that you're the type of person who gives a rip about SF (most people don't). Get it? :)

--Zathras, quiet one in family

[AC37]

I still think you should go with a Zathras avatar, but I know whatcha mean. :)

I was just watching Bab 5 today:

"Zathras? Zathras?!? Dang it, he's never around when you need him."

LOL

BTW as you probably guessed, I do like sci-fi, but NOT the horror-type stuff. Mostly Star Wars, Star Trek (NextGen), and any of the Bab5 stuff. I personally really enjoyed the Crusade series, but I guess the show wasn't too popular. My fav character was the TechnoMage guy, whose name escapes me at the moment. He was very mysterious, I thought he made the show...

Isn't the new Rangers series about to come out? I remember hearing something about that today on SciFi....

Oh BTW, do you like MST3K?

[Zathras]

I'm going to take our little "side" discussion to private messages at this point... I don't know about you, but I seriously hate "thread drift". Especially when I'm the cause! :)

No time to write just now, gotta head out the door for work, but check for a PM later today.

Now, then, I believe we were discussing subguns for ccw...? Doesn't Beretta make a version of the 92 that can be set to safe, semi, or three-round burst? That would be ideal, I think. Seems like it would be easier to control than a Glock 18.

[AC37]

Zathras: sounds good


Anyways, maybe someday they'll have 3 rd. burst for a G19...lol I would prefer a Glock to a Beretta personally...also, exactly five bursts from a preban...talk about powerful AND concealable...;a

[Fox]

The MAC-11 is smaller than the MAC-10.

[dctag]

In order to protect myself from just about anything and improve my leg strength at the same time I would carry an M2 under a trench coat of course I could only carry a 10 round belt so I would need a friend to carry a backback full of more rounds.

[SHOCK]

Who sickboy in the Phils you talkin bout? Is it me?!!!

[carebear]

Originally posted by Zathras

Now, then, I believe we were discussing subguns for ccw...? Doesn't Beretta make a version of the 92 that can be set to safe, semi, or three-round burst? That would be ideal, I think. Seems like it would be easier to control than a Glock 18.

B5 rocked! It's a Beretta 93R. Has an oversized triggerguard for your offhand thumb and a fold down front grip lever thingie under the frame for your offhand fingers. Safe, Semi, Full, I think. You can put a detachable collapseable stock on it. Has a slotted muzzle brake about an inch long.

(woulda been easier to post a link.... whew)

[MrMurphy]

Actually the 93R is safe, semi and 3-round burst I believe.

[carebear]

OK

[JediGlock]

Isn' t that what Travolta used in the movie "Face Off", near the end??

Phil the SP

[michaelglock18]

MP5k in special ops case or shoulder rig under jacket or coat.

[Cheeks]

What? No Glock 18 Michael?

[r2kba]

I'm still miffed why everyone keeps saying GLock18,GLock18...

There are no transferrable g18's for civilians!

[G17Biscotti]

Oh boy!
I would have the H&K MP-5 PDW,
but on the other hand I'd rather
have something more hard hitting.
An AKS-74S Krinkov 7.62X39mm.

Or a Galil ARM in .223 with a
12" barrel and side folding stock.

[MrMurphy]

G17Biscotti, the Galil ARM is the automatic-rifle model with 20" barrel and bipod plus carrying handle. The AR is the standard 20" rifle no bipod or handle. The SAR is the 16" carbine, shorter barrel otherwise the same as the AR. The Micro-Galil is the 12" and 10" versions usually with the Elbit Falcon I believe it's called, similar to the Reflex II by Trijicon.

Considering I'd want to keep things small and light, I'd have to take one of these:

Ruger MP9
HK PDW
Sites Spectre
Steyr TMP

[culleniii]

I used to carry a Calico 950 9mm with 50 round mag in a backpack. Now I carry a Carbon 15 pistol in a sling bag with 3 x 30rd orlites. It is large, but is a pistol nonetheless.

[KarlPMann]

For the best concealability I'd go with a MAC12-.380, short suppressor, and short mag with two 25 round mags in a mag pouch. At close range a burst even of the low powered .380 would do the job. Karl.;f

[ProGlock]

The MP5K gets my vote hands down.

Now since I live in TX, I am not aware of any penal code that specifically says a person cannot carry an automatic weapon for their concealed protection. After all in TX, the license does license a specific firearm, just a specific person.

My take on it was that so long as it is legally yours and can prove it if necessary, it's ok to use if you can keep it concealed.

Guess I better get that extra-extra-extra large trenchcoat for packing around a Barrett M82 - .50 'cal that is! ;I

Now I'd just need about 15 bad guys to line up....

[ProGlock]

Oops, correction....TX CHL does NOT license a specific firearm....stupid fingers can't type tonight

[Ninja Monkey]

Originally posted by r2kba
You know, guys, I've been looking through the TX law, and i cant find where it says you'll be charged with a crime for carrying a maginegun..........Can someone show me the text?

Here's the law in Texas on carrying weapons (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0004600toc.html)

The only thing I can find that prohibits carrying certain weapons is § 46.02, which says

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.
A machinegun is none of those three. So as long as you're not in a place defined under § 46.03 as a prohibited place for firearms, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to legally carry a machinegun open or concealed, just like any long arm. If it's not specifically defined as illegal, it's legal. Heck, it even appears if you had a properly registered hand grenade, you could carry that around too. ;h Good luck on getting your local LEO to sign off on that one, though. ;f

As for actually toting a subgun around, I found this page (http://www.machinegundealer.com/members.html) awhile back, which sells shoulder holsters for Macs and Uzis. Even with a huge coat I don't see how it would conceal very well, though.

Also (CYA mode) I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, etc...

[Cyclic]

But it does specifically say HANDGUN. Machineguns, short barrels rifles/shotgun, ect as in NFA weapons is a whole nother clas in the oenal code.

[Ninja Monkey]

Originally posted by Cyclic
But it does specifically say HANDGUN. Machineguns, short barrels rifles/shotgun, ect as in NFA weapons is a whole nother clas in the oenal code.

Yeah NFA items are listed in § 46.05, Prohibited Weapons. An exception is made to for possessing, manufacturing, transporting, repairing, or selling NFA items in § 46.05 (c). The exception doesn't say "only transporting the items between such and such a place"; so as long as it's not a prohibited place in § 46.03, you're good to go. Again, if it's not specifically prohibited, it's legal.

[The Dude]

I'd choose the BAR under a trench coat

[michaelglock18]

That MP5 and Glock18 is much quicker and more accurate out of the box than that boat anchor!

[Glockspiel]

Hello, folks. Let me join your fantasy.

In my case, it would have to be a Para Micro Uzi. See http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/smg/uzi/parauzi.htm for details.

I wouldn't dream of firing it or any other PDW on anything but semi, however.

[Tommy Gunn]

I would remove the buttstock from a tommygun and tote it in a violin case.

http://tommygun.com/images/1928.gif

[KarlPMann]

Originally posted by Tommy Gunn
I would remove the buttstock from a tommygun and tote it in a violin case.

http://tommygun.com/images/1928.gif


Oooh, sweet '28, wish I could afford one of those. Karl.;P

[Kenneth Lew]

Originally posted by ProGlock
The MP5K gets my vote hands down.

Now since I live in TX, I am not aware of any penal code that specifically says a person cannot carry an automatic weapon for their concealed protection. After all in TX, the license does license a specific firearm, just a specific person.

My take on it was that so long as it is legally yours and can prove it if necessary, it's ok to use if you can keep it concealed.

Guess I better get that extra-extra-extra large trenchcoat for packing around a Barrett M82 - .50 'cal that is! ;I

Now I'd just need about 15 bad guys to line up....

In the real world, I would not risk carrying a NFA firearm that I waited over 6 months to get only to use it in a self-defense incident. I can image the investigating officer will take the firearm and probably drop it, scratch it, dent it. A few years later in a humid room, you will finally get it back all rusted (if your lucky).

Kenneth Lew

nobodys mentioned the 'ARES" folding subgun yet... folds to the size of a greasegun magazine...(no pic available )

[Fox]

Unless its raining, you are going to look conspicous in a trenchcoat. The emphasis needs to be on the concealed part of CCW, not to mention comfort of wear.

Thus the weapon needs to be small enough to wear under a light jacket, or something carried in a brief case.

I would carry an Ingram MAC-10 in a brief case or a MAC-11 under a jacket.

Here is a size comparasin of various weapons that I got from the MAC Resource Website (http://www.mac10.org/)
http://gulfcoastarmory.com/forsale/subguns.jpg

[The Dude]

Originally posted by michaelglock18
That MP5 and Glock18 is much quicker and more accurate out of the box than that boat anchor!

The BAR is an automatic rifle (not a sub machine gun) that fires 30.06 rifle ammunition as opposed to 9mm pistol ammunition. Rifles are much more powerful and accurate than subguns. If I'm in a situation where I need an automatic weapon, I want power, I want a rifle that will shred cars (remember what was left of Bonnie and Clyde and their car?) michaelglock18, the BAR that you call a boat anchor was carried by real men in the military, If bonnie parker carried a BAR I think that says something about weenies who complain about the weight.

The Dude. I think you're forgetting a couple facts on the subject. There's quite a difference between Bonnie Parker toting a BAR through the 20 minutes of a heist, and having to hump one around over hill and dale all day. Having toted an M249 SAW around without a sling gave me a new appreciation for how uncomfortable a squad fire support weapon may be. This is not something you're going to want to tote around under a raincoat for any lengthy period of time, especially if there are other, lower-weight, options available.

[FotoTomas]

I spent a tour in the Army Guard as a Squad Automatic Rifleman. At that Time I was issued a .45 M1911a1 and a M-60 GPMG. I did NOT like humping that thing in the woods.

As far as a CCW Subgun I would go with my MAC M11/9 and the 15 round magazine.

[captainfly]

Hmm. CCW full autos eh?
Well iguess you've all seen The Matrix so the Neo lobby scene look is very much what I would go for if the opertunity ever arose, but with a pair of Glock 18s on my hips as well.
Now I think I go and laugh dementedly for a few seconds;) ;)

[culleniii]

http://207.176.137.9/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=263&cat=AKM+Pistol

Currently carrying the tactical model now in a sling bag with 3 30rd bakelite mags

[Cheeks]

Damn, this thread has been lingering awhile now.

[Wingnut357]

Sten Mk III with no stock.

Maybe a chopped, stockless ppsh.

[Deacon Blues]

i think it would be pretty hard for your defense counsel to defend this one. people take plenty of crap for using small frame 380s and 9mms for self defense in a CCW deployment situation. Using a submachine gun seems like a bit of overkill , or at least it would in the eyes of a jury. does anyone know of any case precedent in which a sub gun was used for self defense in a CCW situation?

[Blitzer]

If we are going to get zany lets say two series one phase pistols from our friends at Star Trek.;z

[Lior]

For on-body concealed carry, there isn't an SMG out there that I would rather carry than a decent handgun. If, however, the CCW included "tactical bags", then I would carry a Micro Galil in it. A first class mix of discretion and milspec firepower.

[GU-47]

Originally posted by r2kba
I'm still miffed why everyone keeps saying GLock18,GLock18...

There are no transferrable g18's for civilians!


If that is is the case, how about a Glock 17c, this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1581602588/qid=1111296715/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4698130-7827946?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), a bunch of paper work and a few months from the ATF

[Ninja Monkey]

Originally posted by GU-47
If that is is the case, how about a Glock 17c, this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1581602588/qid=1111296715/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4698130-7827946?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), a bunch of paper work and a few months from the ATF

Either you're trolling, or you haven't read the FAQ. What you're proposing is not legal unless you're a C2.

[GU-47]

Originally posted by Ninja Monkey
Either you're trolling, or you haven't read the FAQ. What you're proposing is not legal unless you're a C2.

What is a C2?

I thought it was legal if you completed the proper paper work with the ATF but I obviously must be wrong.

[Ninja Monkey]

Originally posted by GU-47
What is a C2?

I thought it was legal if you completed the proper paper work with the ATF but I obviously must be wrong.

Like I said, go read the two FAQ threads at the top of this board. The ones that say "READ This FAQ first".

You can't make a new machinegun any more, unless you're a licensed manufacturer (a C2). And you're not going to become a licensed manufacturer.

[GU-47]

I read the FAQ I guess I just missed what the part about the c2.

[r2kba]

--- DIE THREAD, DIE DIE DIE -----


;Q