There comes a time in every man's life...

[JByer323]

...that he needs to face the possible music.

I don't like the thought of this (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-654) one bit. And Indiana's own Julia Carson is co-sponsoring it.

So that .50 cal that was low on my list, but high on my dream list, just got bumped up to the "I need to get my butt in gear" list.

But I need your help. There seem to be alot of options out there, and I'm not sure what to get.

These are my requirements:
I don't want it to be the bolt carrier style
Bolt action is prefered
As is more then single shot
I want something that's accurate... like, real accurate if possible
A good manufacturer

Now, I have shot one before, but I don't recall what brand, so I do more or less know what I am getting into. Having said that, if at all possible, I'd like something that I can shoot more then three or four rounds from, then be done for the day. I handload, so light loads can be tailored if need be, but I would still prefer something with a good muzzle break. Recoil equal or less then a standard 12 gauge would be wonderful.

So, is there anything on the market that meets all more most of my requirements?

If so, what would you reccomend? I'd prefer something that isn't an AR upper, nothing against them, just personal preference.

Thanks for all your help. You guys are a wealth of information.

[50 Shooter]

If you want something that's easy on your shoulder get an Armalite AR-50. You can shoot it all day long and never feel it. ($2,600)

If you want the top of the line mag-fed get a EDM ARMS M96 Windrunner. Make sure to get it with the new muzzle brake, it has about a 30% or more reduction in felt recoil from the original. ($7,500)

[Ian_Cognito]

The only reason the AR50 doesn't fit your requirements is it's only a single shot. Armalite keeps talking about putting a box magazine on it and making it a repeater, but it hasn't happened so far. A decent 'smith could retrofit the AR with a magazine, but the cost might be prohibitive. I'd be almost willing to bet that if Armalite ever re-designs the AR50 receiver with a magazine, that they will offer a factory retrofit for... $500?
I picked mine up used for $1500, and the original owner claimed he had only put 26 rounds through it at that point. :)

[limeyyank]

If you can't find something you like in a ready made rifle then build one!! If you are going to spend thousands of dollars why not build it just the way you like it.
Ohh just to let you know, in a 50 bmg action a magazine fed is not as stable (read accurate) as a single shot bolt action, I am not saying you will see the diference just plinking but for serious shooting you will.

[Smokecloud]

sounds like you want a Robar, they build a very nice bolt action repeater with a nice brake, you should be able to get into one for about 5k minus glass. repeaters are expensive. a lot of people end up going with the barret 95 for a repeater bolt for about the same price. My choice would be with the robar, very nice rifle.

[JByer323]

So then if I was looking for something not magazine fed, what would you all recomend?

And limeyyank, I have to admit, I'm fairly clueless when it comes to building anything modern, so I don't really see that as a possibility.

The Barrett M99 looks to be a possibility... what else? I also recall looking at the Big Bertha, but have no recollection who made it. Any experiences with it?

[WERA49]

The only limit is the amount that you're willing to spend. How much are you willing to pay?

The AR-50 is perfect for me. It's reasonably priced and well built. However, it doesn't have the magazine that you require.

[JByer323]

In a realistic world $4000, plus glass would be the ideal range.

[DeFens]

Anzio Ironworks has a bolt action, mag fed repeater that is reportedly a nice rifle and accurate shooter.

The Barrett 95 also fits your requirements.

[50 Shooter]

The "Big Bertha" is made by State Arms and it's a shell holder type action, you said you didn't want one. They make a very good rifle and I would buy one any day, don't limit your choices. Same goes for the AMAC 5100, built like a tank, very accurate but a shell holder.

There's also the Serbu BFG that now has a cult like following due to it's simplicity and accuracy. He also has a Carbine version, working on the mag-fed and semi-auto also.

Do some reading here. http://www.hevanet.com/temple/index.html

[JByer323]

I've read most of that website several times.

If you take out all my pre-reqs accept price, accuracy (sub MOA would be great), and a gun you can shoot more then three times then your shoulder hurts, what would you recomend?

I think your'e right that I'm limiting myself, I just don't have any expierence with shell holder types, so I'm a bit nervous about it.

[50 Shooter]

There's nothing wrong with a shell holder type .50, they're just as safe as any other. It's just slower to load and shoot but when your shooting a single shot .50 the point is moot anyway.

It's hard to say what the best one is, I own an AR-50, I liked the looks and over all feel of it. Is it the best? Probably not but it does have the least amount of felt recoil out of all the .50's out there. It will shoot MOA or better with quality ammo and the nut pulling the trigger is doing his part.

Basically it's going to come down to which one YOU like, any of the "entry" level .50's will shoot MOA or better. So far I haven't met a .50 that I didn't like to shoot. Two .50's that I wouldn't buy, the first is the Hesse/Vulcan as the name should scare away any gun owner. The second is the Cobb50, not that it's a bad .50 or inaccurate, it just needs some more work.

[Smokecloud]

if your looking at non repeater, my next choice would have been a AR-50, there was a guy here that posted on BH a nonfired new one with rings, bipod, case for about 2100, that is a steal. rings are about 125, case is about 150 on top of the initial purchase of the rifle, which usually runs around 2300-2600. hell, 2100 is about group purchase price for rifle alone, not including shipping (100.00). they shoot 3/4 to 1moa more often than most. I have yet to see any real person get that kind of accuracy out of an EDM, even though that is what I have, sometimes I wished I had bought the AR-50, but was mesmerized by the machining quality and KP barrel.

for about the same price range, if the serbu looks alright to you for design, it is a hell of a rifle for the money, you can opt for t he 36" bull match barrel for a little extra, I like them for what they are and have been trying to get him to build an upscale RBFG-20, of course in 20mm, but will probably never see it even though he says he is supposed to have designs drawn.

unless you are hooked on the AR-15 add on uppers, you can get complete guns for less money or the same money, therefore I have ruled them out completely in my decisions. The ar50 is light enough no recoil, if you choose a cheaper scope, you WILL get more mileage out of it because of the weight and superior brake design. I plan on purshaching one of the AR-50 brakes for my Windrunner.

another point for the Armalite, is if you ever plan on upgrading the rifle, you already have a rock solid receiver and stock that will probably outlast you. I have seen simple barrel changes to those guns that shoot incredible groups. check out Bruce S on the BH site, NO-One seems to beat him, no matter what they bring, custom or factory. Have fun, and most importantly, get what you want, you will never be happy buying someone elses dream gun.

[limeyyank]

If shell holder types are in the running then DEFINATLY the AMAC 5100
superb weapon for a factory gun Sub MOA with good glass (nightforce)

heres a pic..

[limeyyank]

limeyyank, I have to admit, I'm fairly clueless when it comes to building anything modern, so I don't really see that as a possibility.


As far as building one goes its not really that tough. I am talking about assembling parts,not machineing one up from scratch.
Buy a reciever you like (McBros) right hand bolt left hand port is mine.
pick out the barrel length and contour you want,what twist rate and chamber you want. choose a brake, trigger, stock, recoil pad. If your not comfortable doing the assembly yourself have a gunsmith do it for you, Your going to need it finishing as well.
buy a good scope and go blasting...

[kestrou]

JByer223 - The "time in my life" just came a couple weeks ago. Knew I always wanted a 50, and stumbled across a pretty good deal on a NIB Serbu with bipod and decent glass already installed. Might not be the perfect rifle for me (haven't got out to shoot it yet), but figured I can always buy/sell/trade for another and didn't want to miss the good deal.

limeyyank - I'm sitting up straight in my chair when you talk about building a 50. I've machined 80% receivers (both AR and 1911) to completed guns and lived to tell about shooting them, so any additional info you can pass along would be great!

kestrou

[limeyyank]

Kestrou..
Like I have said before I haven't "machined" a 50 just "assembled" one from bits, The only thing special about my gun it the barrel and that I had custom made so I could tension it. The profile is TOTALLY wrong shooting without the tension tube installed. as you may know the gun barrel actually vibrates when fired so the end of the barrel actually moves around from the vibrations, kind of like a garden hose on the ground after you turn the water on if you get the analogy. What I did was basically make a guitar string out of the barrel. If you look at a guitat the string is fixed at both ends, it can vibrate in the middle but not at the ends.
The chamber end of the barrel is 2" od and is 7 " long the barrel then has a .125" 90^ shoulder machined on it and a 30^ taper for 2" down to 1.250" which the rest of the 40" barrel is. At the muzzle there is a 2" washer with a .125" step turned into its outside edge. I can then trap a piece of .125" wall 2"od pipe from the chamber to the muzzle. I have a separate nut that goes behind the brake to tension the barrel and put the tube in compression. I have 1/4" quick connect fittings fitted into the tube as I had intended to water cool the whole barrel, But with the barrel full of water it pushes me out of my weight class and into the unlimited class where I would be shooting against "rail guns". Hope you get the idea..

[limeyyank]

As far as Ammo goes..
I am useing WCC 91 cases for my target loads the cases are cleaned weighed and CC'd then sorted by smallest cc and heaviest weight (smallest case volume). Turned to lenght and then neck sized only. The flash holes are reamed to make them all the same size. I use RWS primers because they are hotter that cci. I use VVO 20 n41 powder with a load weight of 251grains I shoot A-max 750 gr bullets that are all weighed to within 1 gr. I seat very long, with the bullet .002" from the lands. Out of my barrel this round is going 3100fps.
The best I have shot with the barrel tuned the way it is.7.89" for a 5 shot group @1000yds. this summer I am going to add another 200ftlbs to the barrel tension and see if that tightens up the group.

[50 Shooter]

Limey,
Have thought about slowing your rounds down? I heard before that AMAX act like boreriders when they're pushed between 2600-2700 fps. I'm sure you've probably been down the load test road with your rifle. My AR-50 likes the AMAX with 215grs. of 5010 behind it. Every time I get out to the desert I end up shooting ball and AP because the wind picks up to much. One of these times I'm gonna get to shoot it with the AMAX/VV loads I have loaded up. Those range from 213grs to 217grs and they're loaded really long for the AR-50. Which is another point, Hornady recommends loading them out to 5.71-5.75".

[jgamble]

I'm sort of in the same position. A .50 was always the "last" gun after I got all the HK stuff I wanted... but with all the talk of a .50 ban, I'm seriously thinking of going ahead now. I'm looking at the Barrett 82A1. I'm a lefty, but I've been told the brass ejects safely out of the way (which is good) and I'd imagine a repeater would cut way down on recoil. I don't reload.

[limeyyank]

The accuracy is way down on the barrett 82's because of the long recoil action. The recoil is delivered over a longer period of time,so the recoil is felt less but the pulse of impact is longer making for even worse accuracy. If you really want a semi, spend the money on a military M-2 you will get better hits with that. The 82a1 and 82a2 only shoot about 1.5 to 2 moa thats 15 to 20 inchs @1000yds. there was also a problem with the 82a1 with the frame developing cracks after a lot of shooting, Both marine and navy Barretts had to have the frames welded up!

50 shooter
I had the barrel rifled with angled rifleing so my gun wil shoot faster than most. If you are not familiar with angle rifleing, this is when the lands are cut to look like wedges of cheese rather than square blocks. the VVO powder burns very slowly as well so I can use the whole of my barrel (40") to get the most push behind the bullet. If I reduce my load, the powder would burn out before the bullet left the barrel and then the bullet would just be relying on momentum to leave the barrel and the drag of the rifleing actually slows the bullet down. In a absolutly perfect load the powder would be burnt up at the exact point when the bullet left the barrel.

[elsolo]

I don't own any trophies for rifle shooting, but there seems to be many high accuracy chamberings that run out of burning powder prior to the projo leaving the barrel. Isn't 3100 fps kinda pushing it for a 750 grain projo out of a bolt BMG ?

[limeyyank]

3100fps is with in SAMMI spec (just) for a 50. And I wasn't saying there has to be powder burning all the way down the barrel to be accurate, Just to gain Max velocity.The drop at 1000yds for a 50bmg is over 10'. Also 251 grs of powder is a slighty compressed load which is much more consistent than a load that is loose. Mc Millan was working on a round a few years ago called the "fat mac" which was a shortened 20mm case necked down to 50 cal. It looked like a 6mm ppc on steroids! The big advantage this case design has is a very short powder length and a high powder density this means it burns very consistantly.

[jgamble]

Originally posted by limeyyank
The accuracy is way down on the barrett 82's because of the long recoil action. The recoil is delivered over a longer period of time,so the recoil is felt less but the pulse of impact is longer making for even worse accuracy. If you really want a semi, spend the money on a military M-2 you will get better hits with that. The 82a1 and 82a2 only shoot about 1.5 to 2 moa thats 15 to 20 inchs @1000yds. there was also a problem with the 82a1 with the frame developing cracks after a lot of shooting, Both marine and navy Barretts had to have the frames welded up!

This may be a stupid question, but can you point me to some information about the M-2... isn't that a crew served weapon??

[limeyyank]

Yes the M-2 or Ma Duce Is normally a 2 man weapon But I have seen companys selling "semi-auto" only versions of it. Sorry I can't help you more but I never saved the web page on them..

[50 Shooter]

Ask and you shall receive.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2-50cal.htm
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_mg_m2.php3
http://www.tpub.com/content/combat/14109/css/14109_138.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_machine_gun
http://www.101st.org/Data/7.18.htm
http://www.nisat.org/weapons%20pages%20linked/US/m2_browning_machine_gun.htm
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/mg/50_ammo.html
http://www.militarypubs.com/field%20manuals/FM23-65.htm

These should keep you busy for awhile.:cool:

[jgamble]

Dear lord...

Yeah, ok - that's what I thought it was. I'm not lugging that to a range, unless it's automatic. :) I'll stick with a Barrett.

[limeyyank]

Why the big hang-up on semi auto??? a bolt or single shot with a good brake will be:-
A. cheaper to buy
B. more accurate
C. cheaper to shoot
D. less chance of it breaking
E. Lighter (sometimes)
thats all I could think of in 2 mins....lol

[jgamble]

Limey, what's the realistic difference in recoil between the semi-auto Barrett and the bolt version? One of the things that sold me on the idea of a semi was cutting down further on recoil although your previous post about it has me wondering...

[limeyyank]

recoil is a very subjective thing.. I personally find that the Barretts "move me around" more than a bolt gun. IMO the recoil from a bolt action with a good brake is like a 12gauge with 3" shells. the 50bmg gives you a big push rather than a sharp jab. My father has a side by side in 375H&H that I won't shoot both barrels with because it hurts so bad, But I will shoot 200 rounds of 50 bmg in a match and think nothing of it...

[kestrou]

Originally posted by limeyyank
But I will shoot 200 rounds of 50 bmg in a match and think nothing of it...

LY - Howza bout posting a picture of the callous on your shoulder?! ;f

kestrou

[limeyyank]

what callous?? My rifle weighs 49lbs and has a huge clamshell break with a reversing cone.. I have 7.62x51's that kick harder...

[50 Shooter]

I always get a kick out of people that think .50's will break their shoulder. My AR-50 is so mellow you could shoot a few hundred rounds in one day and never feel it.:cool:

[jgamble]

I'm not really worried about recoil and I'm certainly not worried about it breaking my shoulder or any nonsense like that, I simply thought that a semi might absorb more recoil than a bolt since some of that energy is being used to operate the gun and the gun is heavier.

[limeyyank]

On a Barrett some of the recoil is also being caused by heavy things like the bolt and BARREL moving backward into your shoulder...lol
Its like I said earlier the recoil actually feels longer with a Barrett than with a bolt..

[50 Shooter]

Plus with the M82 you get that SPROOOOOOOOOING from the recoil springs. Kinda reminds you of shooting an AR15.

[jgamble]

You guys have to make everything complicated. heh

Right now, my debate is between purchasing an HK93a3, which is something I've always wanted (I have an irrational love of HK stuff) and a Barrett. I know I'll have both eventually, it's just a matter of timing. I don't want to get screwed by a ban.

[limeyyank]

If you have your heart set on a barrett then buy one. They are a interesting weapon, just expensive to shoot. The 10 round box is ALWAYS empty! and at about $15 a mag full it gets pricey quick...lol
If you want a honest opinion..get yourself a AMAC 5100 and a nightforce scope. also a couple of hundred rounds of military AP ammo (more accurate than ball) and then put the money you saved from not buying a barrett towards your H&K..you can probably get the gun scope and ammo ALL for around 6 G. Just a thought..;f

[limeyyank]

Ohh by the way your not the only one with a fetish for H&K. I have a MP-5 Navy (or 89 if you prefer) that is a department issue to me and I love the thing..I used to own a PSG-1 but that went to get a walther 2000 and that went to pay for my latest 50. still have a G-3 and am trying to talk my department head into getting a 43 (fat chance) for overseas work.;P

[jgamble]

I'll take the G3! I'll PM you with shipping address lol

I've had a fascination/fetish for HK since I was a kid. I'm not a German or Nazi buff in the least, but I've always had a thing for German weaponry starting in WWII and the HK stuff that is a direct link from that past. They just seem incredibly well made and nice to look at. By the time I was old enough to OWN any of the civilian versions, the import ban was in effect. Bastards.

[limeyyank]

I thought for sure you would have wanted the MP-5!
As far as battle rifles go I would take my L1A1 over the G-3 anyday.
Back to 50's if you want to see a good Movie of the AMAC in action there is one called "silent trigger" staring Dolph Lundgren and co-staring a AMAC-5100 total hollywood BS but some great shooting..
I had a AMAC when they were still Iver Johnson, Its one of the few guns I really REALLY regret getting rid of. ( I wish money allowed me to keep them all)

[jgamble]

I'll take the MP-5 too, trust me. I also like the UMP.

Honestly... the AMAC is... ugly. That's just me though.

[limeyyank]

Ohh well everyone has there tastes.. I think the AMAC has very clean lines and the harmonic damper work great.

[50 Shooter]

AMAC ugly? It was actually the first .50 that I wanted, hell it looks beefier than an M1 Abrams! Then I saw the AR-50 and fell head over heels for it.

Like LY said, it's a money thing. If I had the money I would probably have one of almost every .50 out there. Maybe I'll get lucky and hit the lotto.;f

[TheTam]

OK, maybe this is off-topic slightly, but if anyone's looking to get in on the .50 action and can't afford thousands for a .50 BMG, I highly recommend the S&W 500 (.50 magnum) revolver. Mine, with an 8 3/8" barrel, was $875.00 brand-new from the priciest gun store in Austin (McBride's.)

Honestly, I think that's a great price for what I got--a FIFTY MAGNUM revolver that is so well balanced that I (a 5"2" woman) can shoot it with the 275-grain HP's without bad recoil. It comes back at you rather than flipping a lot.

Plus, you can get some nifty S&W 500 logo'd shirts and caps if you really wanna tick off the anti's, who hate S&W and .50's about equally.
;f

[WERA49]

The Tam, you make a good point about a fun pistol. However, there is nothing like shooting (owning is even better!) a .50 BMG.

.50 BMG = 13,000 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.
S&W 500 = 2,600 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.

P.S. I don't yet have a .500 S&W Magnum. I'll buy one sometime this year. I'll sell my R.C. car to pay for it. :)

[WERA49]

Speaking of cartridges, you guys might like this. When I get a S&W 500, I'll take another picture and post it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/AR-50_Fan/Guns/Cartridges.jpg