This is where Kel-crap jammatics belong! [Archive]

emt1581

02-22-2005, 02:06

I've got one of the first 200 P3AT's made. To be honest, the initial pistol was GARBAGE. The casing ejected and nailed me in the head after each shot. A motorcycle helmet fixed that problem;) It also jammed every few rounds.

I sent it in to Kel-Tec DURING CHRISTMAS and they had it back to me within two weeks. They replaced the slide and shipped it to me FREE OF CHARGE!

Have put a few hundred rounds through it since then and haven't had ONE problem with it. I have such confidence in this little wonder, that it has become one of two pistols (alternated by season and attire) that can always be found in my front pocket.

Pocket clip is nice to, but I never really use it unless I'm in undies or B-Ball shorts.

I dare you to find a lighter, cheaper, tougher, thinner, more compact .380 with the same capacity.;)

-Emt1581

nipperwolf

02-22-2005, 03:58

Originally posted by fowler
Sat. nite junk pistols

;Q ;Q ;Q

Laserlips

02-25-2005, 16:47

Not..;f

magnut

02-25-2005, 19:44

I must say I have never thought of the Keltecs as being a SNS. The materials used are grade A. They are a totally new and reliable design. I cannot think of anything that size in that price range that has a locked breech. Quality I tell you, Quality through and through. The ultimate in deep concealment.

hotpig

02-25-2005, 22:03

I think Kel-Tec should raise their prices 100.00 across the board. The same guys that bash them would start singing their praises. Some people only think expensive equals quality.

MrGlock21

02-25-2005, 23:31

Originally posted by vafish
This thread ought to get a few people fired up!

Of course I am amazed that about half the Keltec owners I've seen post on the internet will tell you how great Keltecs service was when they sent their gun back to them because it didn't function. If they have the time for a great service department they should just build the things right in the first place.

^6

vafish, you hit the nail ;i

magnut

02-25-2005, 23:39

Oh I dunno, the design is good, the materials are good, the price point is solid. I think they may have some quality control issues once in a while with new designs being rushed out but it seems to be a product of the times with gun manufacturers. I here bad things about sigs to sometimes. They have a huge cult following with many forums... somtimes I think they get a bad wrap. But I will say nothing is more upsetting than reading a bunch good reviews then going out and buying a pistol only to find out you have a lemon. Gosh I hate that. I guess thats what tools are for ;z

Jericho941

02-25-2005, 23:50

I have a P32 which jammed once due to rim lock. I now only use longer cartridges in it, and don't mix brands. The only failure to function that I had was due to alternating short hollow points with FMJs. I carry it in hot weather when I'm too lazy too carry a bigger gun.

vafish

02-27-2005, 21:47

Originally posted by MrGlock21
^6

vafish, you hit the nail ;i

Pretty close,

5 people say they have KelTecs. 2 of them have had to send them back to the factory (and got great service), 2 have had no problems, and one has had a single jam with it.

I'm not a KelTec hater.

I just think they should take the time to make them right the first time.

AngryBassets

02-27-2005, 22:54

Originally posted by fowler
Sat. nite junk pistols

Fowler,

Did the CEO of Kel Tec make a pass at your wife or something?

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349697
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348048
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349080&perpage=25&highlight=&pagenumber=2
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=343373
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=340790&perpage=25&highlight=&pagenumber=3
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=337678
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349668
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=335122
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=346040

...and they are just from the last 30 days!!!!

;R `l

michael t

02-28-2005, 00:20

Well Kel Tec going to start enforceing their warrenty Orginal owners only with proof and no tinkering F&B pin mods ect. You didn't buy new or you tinkered you pay. Not I wonder will they improve their QC.;f

Laserlips

02-28-2005, 09:00

Originally posted by michael t
Well Kel Tec going to start enforceing their warrenty Orginal owners only with proof and no tinkering F&B pin mods ect. You didn't buy new or you tinkered you pay. Not I wonder will they improve their QC.;f

I think you said that KelTec was going to start enforcing their warranty to only those folks who purchased the KelTec pistol new, and had done no modifications on the pistol, correct?

I think you are probably mistaken. BUT, even if you're not mistaken whats the big deal? No other firearms company has EVER warranted used pistols to my knowledge. It's always been that only the original purchaser had the warranty, and then generally on for a year. If the pistol has a LIFETIME warranty, if KelTec will pay a portion of the shipping ($20)to return a defective pistol, and if they will fix the problem and ship it back to you free, what's wrong with that?

For those folks desiring a small pistol you are quite limited in your choices. In my experience the NAA Guardian, Beretta Tomcat, Seecamp and the Keltec's are pretty much your options. I've owned the Guardians, (2 in fact) and while they are very nice they are pricy, heavy, and my 2 have not been reliable. (NAA does have good customer service tho), I've owned a Tomcat, and it was sheer MERDE,and the Customer service dept was more MERDE.... I haven't owned a Seecamp because the information I read was that the NAA Guardian was basically an improved Seecamp. (Plus it was very expensive at the time).

Of my two KelTec's, a P11, and a P32, both have been 100% reliable with quality ammo. (Wally world white box 9mm will cause problems in several of my 9mm's). Both of my KelTec pistols are of recent manufacture and just don't have problems. I know the early runs of the P11, P32, P3AT DID have problems.

As for the "fluff ' buff". It seems that most KelTec owners have no problem with that. It's NOT major gunsmithing. I don't think you even need to do that anymore with the newer pistols, but lots of people enjoy piddling with the little KelTecs.
I don't know what part of the country you live in, but here in Georgia most gun dealers cannot keep KelTec's on the shelf. Or, there are apparently plenty of folks who don't worry about the possible need for a "fluff n' buff", or even about the possibility of having to send their pistols back to Cocoa for a fix if need be.

The small Keltec's are becoming the favorite backup pistols for LEO's, (especially the P3AT), and I don't see professional LEO's carrying something unreliable for that duty.

I'm not trying to talk anyone into liking, or buying a KelTec pistol. If you don't want one, no problem, someone else will. I do hate to see them called "jammomatics" when in fact mine have proven otherwise.

I've been a pistol/revolver owner for over 45 years, and I've had good ones, and bad ones. I've never had to deal with a Customer Service any better than KelTec, and I'm very happy with my 2 KelTec pistols.

Anyone who isn't comfortable with any automatic and the potential for malfunction should carry a J-Frame Smith. I've got 2 of those, but my concealed carry will be the P11 when I can, and the P32 all other times.

Best Wishes... ^d

rubijeep

03-02-2005, 00:22

my friends wife bought a p-3at because the man at the shop told her how good they were. brought it home and got good malfunction clearing drill time in. when it didnt stovepipe it ate the brass up and put a red mark between the old eyes. she is pretty mad at the man at the shop. i took it apart and found galled frame rails, burrs on the breechface and the takedown pin hole is boogered up.

the gun has been shot exactly 75 times. it looked dry as a bone because she used the spray oil when she cleaned it, so i tried to deburr a little and oiled it good and it seems to not jam anymore, but the takedown pin wants to walk out a little, but it always has.

im going to offer 150 or 200 dollars to buy it and try to keep it if it works. she obviously doesnt want it anymore. if it doesnt work ill send it back or trade it off

ChuteTheMall

03-02-2005, 09:36

Originally posted by rubijeep
im going to offer 150 or 200 dollars to buy it and try to keep it if it works. she obviously doesnt want it anymore. if it doesnt work ill send it back or trade it off

If it doesn't work, Kel-Tec will fix everything for free until it does. Really.

rubijeep

03-02-2005, 23:33

thats what ive heard about kel tec, so im not real worried about it. a friend of mine at work has one that the drawbar messed up and wouldnt move the hammer. they had it back to him in two weeks and it works now, so maybe ill be ok

nyredneck

03-03-2005, 20:33

Originally posted by rubijeep
thats what ive heard about kel tec, so im not real worried about it. a friend of mine at work has one that the drawbar messed up and wouldnt move the hammer. they had it back to him in two weeks and it works now, so maybe ill be ok

I was watching an episode of "American Rifleman" and the P3at they were testing did the same thing. They sent it back and in 1 week the problem had been fixed.

38special Ed

03-04-2005, 00:12

I love my p32 for the limited role it plays in my ccw. Its not a glock but i have something i can literally tuck in my underwear if i need to. Never had any real problems with it, just watch the rim lock when loading mags. I've put over 1000 rounds thru mine and so far so good. I wouldn't trust the p3at yet. I dont trust new things that much, I think the p32's that had problems were the first ones. Maybe thats were the SNS idea comes from.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/Triggerman212/guns1084.jpg

HOUSTON

03-05-2005, 14:50

OK, here we go. I have owned a Keltec P-40 for 4 yrs. Don't shoot it a lot, but it has performed perfectly since out of the box(new).

Not a flame, but, I purchased a EAA 380 about 5 years ago, shooting only factory 90gr ball the thing broke the (2) pins that secure the barrel to the frame. When I contacted EAA they were very RUDE to me over the phone, they didn't want to assume any responsiblity for the defect, or offer any warranty. They immediately lost this customer. Since then I made my own pins, solid, not rolled pins, and have not had any problems.

Bottom line, each manafacture has a DUD every now and then. Just because one model has a problem dosen't mean the whole line is CRAP.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

michael t

03-05-2005, 17:58

Originally posted by ChuteTheMall
If it doesn't work, Kel-Tec will fix everything for free until it does. Really.
What if it decides not to work that ONE TIME you REALLY NEED IT. Are you going to ask the BG to wait while you send it back. I don't want to carry a pistol thats been sent back and back and back .

RyanSBHF

03-05-2005, 20:39

WELCOME TO PAGE 2!

ChuteTheMall

03-05-2005, 22:07

Originally posted by michael t
What if it decides not to work that ONE TIME you REALLY NEED IT. Are you going to ask the BG to wait while you send it back. I don't want to carry a pistol thats been sent back and back and back .

That's a good point, and it applies equally well to 1911 type pistols which have long had a reputation for needing reliability tweaking by a gunsmith in order to feed aggressive hollowpoints. The difference is that gunsmiths only get rich fixing 1911's, not Kel-Tecs or Glocks.

ALL carry pistols and revolvers need to be broken in and tested for reliability with carry ammo, even Glocks. No exceptions.

If anyone is having trouble with a Kel-tec jamming, learn to shoot it without limpwristing. In the absence of heavy steel, your wrist is the immovable object against which recoil forces must bounce.

Shoot with an experienced Kel-Tec shooter if possible. Try a little simple fluff & buff, search KTOG and specific forums for details. Or send it to me.:cool:

Dead Ed

03-05-2005, 22:26

I bought a P-32 and took it back to the indoor range. It jammed on the ejected case every round. I took it back to the counter and was accused of "limp wristing". I had him take it back and again it jammed every round.
They started in on sending it back to the factory. I complained about having walked in with cash and wanting to walk out with a working gun and they were good enough to exchange it for another brand and pay me the price difference. I honestly didn't expect to win that argument after having fired it, but the owner is a real good guy who appreciated my regular business;).
Maybe I just got a lemon, but I'm finished with Kel Tec.

Dead Ed

03-06-2005, 00:48

The place was called "Targetmaster" on 202 south of Philly by the Delaware state line. Good prices when compared to some of the huslers around here in the city of brotherly love.

michael t

03-06-2005, 01:20

I have a 1972 Combat Commander that is still box stock and has never had a problem with hollow points. In those days about only HP on market was Super-Vel and they were first rounds I fired thru it. The tweaking of 45 is why so many are messed up leave them alone.We didn't tweak our 45's in the army and they worked and saw a lot more abuse than a CCW pistol. I have a 1941 USGI that still trucking today and sometimes I even carry it. Will your KT be around and working in 64 years?
Talk about tweaking fluff and buff, fixing the feed ramp problen, The pin walking out theirs a tweak to fix that You all have more reliability issues than anybody. Buy a Bersa 380 cost less and runs out of the box. They work because the factory has QC, not ship it and customer can fix or send back. American Cars were that way at one time Ship it and let customer take to dealer to fix. Not that way to day people demand a better car so should KT owners, You shouldn't need to fix or send back.

akbound

03-06-2005, 19:24

Originally posted by michael t
What if it decides not to work that ONE TIME you REALLY NEED IT. Are you going to ask the BG to wait while you send it back. I don't want to carry a pistol thats been sent back and back and back .
Better not rely on anything mechanical then, because they are all subject to failure! Probably why a gun should only be part of your plan. ;)

Dave

P.S. Sounds like a perfect reason to make two guns part of the plan! :)

ghettford

03-08-2005, 13:16

No problems with my p32.

Waffen HK

03-08-2005, 17:52

oooooh...FACED! ;d lol, nice comeback. Just kidding, don't wanna start anything.;f

bac1023

03-19-2005, 20:44

Originally posted by fowler
Sat. nite junk pistols
I don't know about anyone else, but frankly, I'm getting sick of Fowler's anti Kel-Tec rants. They're not what I call great quality, but they bring something to the table that few, if any, other manufacturer's do. The 7oz weight of my P3AT allows me to carry it in any situation when my G33 is too big and heavy. Other mouseguns are the same size, but twice the weight and usually chambered in much weaker calibers, such as the .25ACP. At least the .380 gives respectable performance.

My P3AT has been reliable, not 100%, but reliable. I will send it back for correction shortly, but I feel its reliability is acceptable for an inexpensive firearm. As is, it averages about 1 jam per 100 rounds. If Kel-Tec can make it 100%, even better. I have patience with a gun that cost me only $229 new and is that easy to carry. Are they perfect? No, but they don't belong in this forum. I had a $650 Para Warthog that was much, much less reliable.

Diogenes

03-19-2005, 23:24

I have Kel-Tec's. I used to swear by them, and I talked some buddies in to getting them, too. They are so small and light. They are so easy to carry. But, they are problematic, too. One of mine (within the first 700 made) seemed to work okay (but you had to wear a hat, brim low, and glasses, because it will nail you in the head/face area with casings flung very hard), but the second failed out of the box. Now, both have been sent back due to the failures. If you are going to carry one of these, shoot it until it works consistently and reliably, then stop shooting it. Based on my experience (and that of my buddies), if you keep shooting it, it will develop problems.

Glock9mmFan

03-21-2005, 16:32

I've owned a number of Kel-Tecs and all have been quite reliable. They are certainly not junk guns or SNS.

Maybe Kel-Tec should double their prices so people would stop slandering their good name.

The most expensive gun I own, a Kahr PM9, has had more problems than any Kel-Tec I've seen.

Laserlips

03-21-2005, 18:49

Originally posted by Diogenes
I have Kel-Tec's. I used to swear by them, and I talked some buddies in to getting them, too. They are so small and light. They are so easy to carry. But, they are problematic, too. If you are going to carry one of these, shoot it until it works consistently and reliably, then stop shooting it. Based on my experience (and that of my buddies), if you keep shooting it, it will develop problems.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have come to believe that the proper use of a KelTec as your concealed pistol of choice is to shoot 150-200rds thru it. IF it has been 100% reliable and accurate to your satisfaction, stick it in your back pocket, or where you choose to hide it. Don't shoot hundreds of more rounds thru it trying to see if and when it will fail. If you shoot enough rounds thru it, ANY pistol will eventually fail in some manner.

KelTecs are tiny,light, and very concealable. Because of these facets even tho they are made of excellent materials, the materials simply cannot be as heavy duty as you favorite full sized firearm. It's just a fact.

It is nice that KelTec has the best customer service in the firearms Industry, and if you choose to marathon shoot their firearms like a full sized pistol that's your choice. KelTec will fix or replace them forever, FREE.. Shoot the fool out of them, no problem.. But, like everything else they will fail at some point..

I recommend you have several magazines, all of which have proven to be reliable for you. Rotate magazines every so often (I choose 3 month intervals) and I think you will be taking advantage of the mission the pistol was designed to perform.

I don't know about you, but I can't afford to run 500-1000 rds. of expensive 32cal ammo thru my P32 just to see when it will burp.. Mine has been 100% reliable from day one, and I have complete faith in that it will perform perfectly the next time I choose to pull the trigger.

For those who consider KelTec's as SNS, (and we know WHO you are) buy something else and quit carping about your " bad experience" with your KelTec. I think KelTec is finding sufficient customers to purchase their pistols that they aren't going out of business any time soon.

KelTec fits the bill for my "backup" concealed weapon. If it hasn't performed well for you, try whatever else is out there that offers the same package, see it that suits your fancy. Whatever it turns out to be it WON'T be 100% reliable forever.. It just doesn't work that way.

Best Wishes....... :soap:

Marshall

03-21-2005, 19:51

The Kel Tec P-11 is almost the ideal pocket gun, in my opinion: see the link:
http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal.htm

The p-3at IS the ideal pocket gun.

URL]http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal2.htm[/URL]

fasthorse

03-22-2005, 02:19

Please!

buckfever34

03-28-2005, 11:52

Being a Kel Tec owner I must contribute....my P11 had never had a FTF...I carry it all the time. I trust my life with it...;P

Adams454

04-04-2005, 23:41

If everyone would treat their p32's like I did mine, we would all love them. I heard from a friend that they were shipped tight and tended to fte. So, for about a week when I was sitting around watching tv I would have my kel-tec in hand and just cycle it, over and over again. It loosened up and I had no problems what so ever. I have never had a jam or anything. If you ask me, a gun that will shoot 3" at 25 yards without sights, reliably, is a good investment.

oldgranpa

04-05-2005, 06:58

Excellent posts, except for fowler who doesn't own any guns.
og

NoGo

04-07-2005, 08:24

I have an early P-3AT, ser# 79x, and it had problems with the hotter, faster ammo. Worked fine with WWB. I worked on it and got it running fine, then exchanged for the HC slide/ barrel. After re-F&B'ing, it's worked 100% with everything I've put through it. My P-40 took magazine work as well.

Still, I've ended up working of most of my guns (Glock, Colt, Kimber, Ruger, Makarov, S&W, Kel Tec) to get them working right, so it's not a big deal to me as long as they do what I want when I'm done.

A reliable P-3AT in a pocket holster is still the best "Everywhere" gun out there. Little and light, it works for the times when a bigger, heavier gun won't.

MrGlock21

04-07-2005, 09:34

Originally posted by NoGo
I have an early P-3AT, ser# 79x, and it had problems with the hotter, faster ammo. .......

When I carried a P-3AT the old saying "pray for peace but prepare for war" kicked in. Only, with Kel-Tec I found myself more praying than preparing. After all was fluffed & buffed I still felt that my future was rather in God's hand than in Kel-Tec's ;)

halfmoonclip

04-20-2005, 18:54

My personal experience has been that P-32s WORK and that P3ATs do NOT. That is based on three .32s that have been entirely reliable and 3 .380s that have been hugely creative in new and interesting ways to misbehave. I had the guns replaced twice, and Cocoa sent a new barrel/slide once; none of 'em worked reliably.

If you believe that the P3 was redesigned just to make it ugly, I have some FL waterfront land that we might want to discuss. They added mass to the slide to get (I hope) reliable operation.

The .380s are distinctly unpleasant to shoot; after about 30 rounds, I always ended up with a bleeding web in the gun hand. Before somebody calls me a wuss, I'd rather shoot my 340 Smith with magnums than the P3.

Overlooked in the discussion of the reasonable price of KelTecs is the amount of ammo you end up going thru when one DOES act up; I burned well over $150 worth just experimenting. Even FINDING that many .380s is a challenge. I agree with the 'increase the price' notion if KelTec would spend it on tighter QC. I'd rather have a gun that will likely work out of the box, and spend a little more up front. That would be cheaper and less aggravation in the long run for the consumer and KelTec.

If you have a P3, and it works all the time, God love ya'.

Otherwise, stick with the .32 and Laserlips' advice. Shoot it enough to establish its reliabilty, and then only shoot away the carry ammo from time to time.

There is no disputing the cleverness of KelTec's designs nor their diligent customer service. With the P3,however, the laws of physics and mechanical variation run in to each other, with awful results.

I hope the improved model is a success, because a pocket .380 is a great idea. But it will be some time before I chance another KelTec in that caliber.

Moon

Marshall

04-20-2005, 19:12

Kel-Tec pistols are great if you are the type of person who has a little bit of interest in working with your guns beyond cleaning them. Also, Kel-Tec has a life-time warranty for the original owner, and they can make your gun work, if you have trouble with it.

I went shooting today with my P3AT, and my P11 (9mm); both by Kel-Tec, and both functioned perfectly. I'm a lousy shot, but I was getting some pretty tight groups at 5 yards.

I carry the P3AT all the time in my front pocket with ease.

http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal2.htm

50 Cent

04-20-2005, 20:40

The main reason I haven't gone with the P3AT is that everyone says its pretty ugly to practice with - a 50 rd max range gun. However my P-32 has been flawless through 1200 rds and is easy to shoot.

For pocket carry in .380 I think I'm sticking with my Bersa Thunder - in a Desantis Nemisis even in shorts and a t-shirt its easy to conceal and not so blocky/heavy that it makes pocket carry unreasonable. Although, yeah, the P-32 does most of my "day" carry.

Marshall

04-21-2005, 04:47

The P3AT is not a gun to take to the range to shoot 500 rounds. I shoot mine 6 or 7 magazines, just to make sure it is functioning perfectly, then clean it up. I do this every couple of months. The purpose of the P3AT is to give a very light, small CCW gun. If you want a range pistol, I'm sure the Bersa is better. Even better, for a range pistol, why go small? Get a Ruger P95 or a 22/45. These are large guns, but very accurate and easy to shoot many rounds. But you can't beat the P3AT for what it is designed to do.

Diogenes

05-03-2005, 00:04

Originally posted by Marshall
The P3AT is not a gun to take to the range to shoot 500 rounds. I shoot mine 6 or 7 magazines, just to make sure it is functioning perfectly, then clean it up.

This is very true. I just sent in two P-3ATs -- one made in the first 700, the other with a much newer serial number. Both had problems with the magazine popping out with each shot. The newer one did this from the git go. The older did this after considerable firing over the years. I got two brand new P-3AT's back (after $36 in shipping). One seems to be fine. The second worked at the range --perfunctory 200 rounds to make sure it works. Then, a couple weeks later I examined the gun. The frame had warped, extending the point where the retention pin which attaches the slide to the frame was extended out by 3/16". Back to KT at another $36. When I get it back, if it works, and the frame does not warp, I will fire it a few times, and then just keep it for extreme concealment. Really, once you know it works, why ever shoot it again?

390ish

05-03-2005, 20:54

If you want utter reliability for a concealable ride, buy a makarov or ASP. The price differential is only about $4,700.00 between the two. The keltec is put out there for people to use to defend themselves with some modicum of reliability. They sell a lot of product. I would rather carry a machete than a 32 apc, but that is just me. Keltec is allright, and I might buy one someday.

AngryBassets

05-03-2005, 21:19

Originally posted by Diogenes
This is very true. I just sent in two P-3ATs -- one made in the first 700, the other with a much newer serial number. Both had problems with the magazine popping out with each shot. The newer one did this from the git go. The older did this after considerable firing over the years. I got two brand new P-3AT's back (after $36 in shipping). One seems to be fine. The second worked at the range --perfunctory 200 rounds to make sure it works. Then, a couple weeks later I examined the gun. The frame had warped, extending the point where the retention pin which attaches the slide to the frame was extended out by 3/16". Back to KT at another $36. When I get it back, if it works, and the frame does not warp, I will fire it a few times, and then just keep it for extreme concealment. Really, once you know it works, why ever shoot it again?

I have to shoot a 250 round qual course every six months carry it. My mag is now popping out, too. This would be the 4th trip to Florida for the gun. It's travelled more than me.

I didn't qualify with it this time; bought a 642 to replace the P3AT (don't trust it, want to, but can't, unpleasant to shoot) and my 337PD (brutal to shoot/hammer spur catches on the pocket).

halfmoonclip

05-04-2005, 06:44

Originally posted by AngryBassets
I have to shoot a 250 round qual course every six months carry it. My mag is now popping out, too. This would be the 4th trip to Florida for the gun. It's travelled more than me.

I didn't qualify with it this time; bought a 642 to replace the P3AT (don't trust it, want to, but can't, unpleasant to shoot) and my 337PD (brutal to shoot/hammer spur catches on the pocket).
AB- Would you care to elaborate on the 250 round business? Jeeze, that is a lot of shooting for qual; hope you have an agency popping for it. Too much shooting for a KelTec to tolerate, IMHO.

BTW, you might want to try the Centennial version of your Jay-gun; no pocket snag, and it sits lower in the hand, which takes some of the sting out of recoil.

As posted previously, I entirely agree with your assessment of the P3.
Moon

ChuteTheMall

05-04-2005, 07:06

Originally posted by 390ish
I would rather carry a machete than a 32 apc, but that is just me. Keltec is allright, and I might buy one someday.

Virginia's CHP allows only pistols, carrying a concealed machete is illegal in addition to being uncomfortable (is that a machete in your pocket or are you overdosed on viagra?)

halfmoonclip

05-04-2005, 07:55

Originally posted by ChuteTheMall
Virginia's CHP allows only pistols, carrying a concealed machete is illegal in addition to being uncomfortable (is that a machete in your pocket or are you overdosed on viagra?)

OOOhOOOhOOOh. Do be careful sitting down.;)
Moon

Glock9mmFan

06-02-2005, 12:42

Originally posted by Marshall
The P3AT is not a gun to take to the range to shoot 500 rounds. I shoot mine 6 or 7 magazines, just to make sure it is functioning perfectly, then clean it up. I do this every couple of months. The purpose of the P3AT is to give a very light, small CCW gun. If you want a range pistol, I'm sure the Bersa is better. Even better, for a range pistol, why go small? Get a Ruger P95 or a 22/45. These are large guns, but very accurate and easy to shoot many rounds. But you can't beat the P3AT for what it is designed to do.

I put hundreds of rounds through my P32 with no problems, and my SU-16 has reliably fed over 1k rounds now. Look at the problems in General Glocking with the G19 and the G36 recall -- no manufacturer is perfect.

jizzacked

06-03-2005, 13:38

well, I can only speak for myself. I have a p-32 that I purchased a year or so ago... it has never malfunctioned in my hands, but I have brought people shooting with me and I have seen it stovepipe in 2 people's hands, I would attribute that to limpwristing and such as I have never had a problem with it, I keep an iron grip when I shoot.

my only qualm is the sights are a joke, and accuracy is terrible at least for me. I think my hands are just too large for the thing, but it rarely sees carry time, only when I have to be especially discreet. even still, every now and then I pull it out and run a mag or 2 through it and still fires fine even with some lint and fully loaded for months at a time in the safe.

I want a P3AT some day, but I am going to give them at least another year to iron out the issues that still plague that model.

Coffindodger!

06-03-2005, 17:53

Kel-Tecs?

Waste of money.

oldgranpa

06-03-2005, 21:00

Originally posted by Coffindodger!
Kel-Tecs?

Waste of money.

In 2001 alone there were over 35,000 people that disagree with you.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_7_48/ai_105797596/pg_2

Probably a whole lot more people by now think a KT is a bargain. I myself think my KT P32 is a bargain. A waste of money to me would be a $2000 1911 .45 pistol when you can get one for less than $500.

Do you own any Kel Tecs? Duh!!

og

AngryBassets

06-04-2005, 15:15

Originally posted by halfmoonclip
AB- Would you care to elaborate on the 250 round business? Jeeze, that is a lot of shooting for qual; hope you have an agency popping for it. Too much shooting for a KelTec to tolerate, IMHO.

BTW, you might want to try the Centennial version of your Jay-gun; no pocket snag, and it sits lower in the hand, which takes some of the sting out of recoil.

As posted previously, I entirely agree with your assessment of the P3.
Moon

I have a 642. I'll be carrying it more as the weather warms up, and it's my BUG on my ankle when I'm on daywork. Otherwise, I carry a Glock 27 as a BUG/off duty.

NJ's qual course is two 60 round courses, two 30 round stress courses, and a 40 (?) night qual. They tell us to bring 250 rounds in case you fail a stage (I actually shoot that J frame better than a lot of the guys shoot their duty guns (Glock 23's), but that's typical--I practice a lot).

I wish I could like/shoot/trust that Kel Tec, I really do...

speedsix

06-11-2005, 06:39

I had a Kel-Tec P-32. It was my first last and only Kel-Krap I will ever own. I have to admit that it is easy to fall in love with the size and weight of these little guns but mine was not reliable after TWO trips to the factory, once round of having KT send me parts to replace bad once AND to top it off, the trigger axis broke for apparently no reason.

I put about 500rds though it while trying to get it right but I never got more than 100rds though it without having to send it back or fix it. I paid about $275 for the hard chrome slide version and then I bought the pocket clip (cool idea!) and with shipping it back to KT and ammo costs, I was in the hole about $400 for a gun that didn't work as well as a $50 Jennings! For $400, I could have bought a S&W 642 (which I later did) and had a gun that would go bang every time and I could trust.

From what I have seen, the problems with KT extend beyond the assembly into the quality of the parts. My trigger axis should never have broke. I didn't abuse it in any way, it just snapped like a cheap piece of pot metal. It did look like die cast metal or something on the surface of the break. I don't think they should use cheap casts parts on such a critical part as the trigger axis. There was no way of making the gun work with a broken trigger axis.

I would never trust another Kel-Tec again. Maybe in 20-30 years if they are still around, I may give them another shot but the smart money is that Kel-Tec will be LONG gone by then. They make self defense guns that are not reliable. Reliability is the most important factor in a SD gun.

MrJinx

06-15-2005, 08:56

Nothing but love for my P3AT. Bummer people have problems with them. My G27 gave me problems NIB but not Kel-Tec. The 27 slide stop lever's spring was bent.

The P3AT is a good deep conceal gun or better than no-gun gun.

Regards!

michael t

06-15-2005, 13:21

Over and over we read about going back to the factory 3 and 4 times and yet people still say they love them and will carry for SD. Their lots of depenable small auto and even a rev. or 2. I have a Colt Mustang in my pocket in a Don Hume holster at this time. Yes it weights twice what a Keltec does. But I can say the same thing KT owners say I forget I carrying it. Its not the weight its spending a day or so getting use to the increase. I carry PPK/S or a old 38spl SS mod 60 at 20+ oz and I don't know their there.. If you want to stay with the KT then get the 9mm P-11 It has a better track record. I admit Ive been looking at one of those myself.;a

Marshall

06-16-2005, 03:49

The Kel Tec P-11 is the ALMOST ideal pocket gun:

http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal.htm

Happy shootin' everyone!:)

oldgranpa

06-16-2005, 06:35

the main problem I've had with my Kel Tec's had been with the crappy MecGar magazines. The pistols themselves have been fine. The MecGar has a plastic follower that sometimes rides too high at the front nose and the last round usually will be tipped up and cause a FTF. Sometimes that is.
What I've done is open the magazine and bend the tip of the spring up, turn it around so the bent up tip is at the back of the follower when reassembled. This helps keep the follower level.
Kel Tec has to keep costs down so they use the cheap MecGar magazines in their pistols.

But nobody's perfect, Beretta does the same thing. I had a .32acp Tomcat with the cheapy MecGar magazine. The last round would spit out of the pistol before it got chambered. A bunch of people on another site reported the same problem. The back "ears" on the magazine were just too short and the last round would start to tip up before the nose of the bullet ever got into the chamber and fly out before the slide cycled.

Kel Tec at least answers your concerns and will try to fix your pistol at the factory or even send you parts. They sent me a free assembly pin for one of my P32's which stopped the problem of the pin working out. And all it took was a phone call.

Beretta never answered my letter of 8 months ago and doesn't answer e-mails about my concern. So, after trying several "fixes" on the magazine myself, which didn't stop the problem, I just traded the worthless Tomcat in. Haven't had to do that with my Kel Tecs.

Beretta brags you can safely carry a round in the chamber due to the tip-up barrel design. Well, you can carry your Kel Tec safely with a round in the chamber just as well due to the DA design. Just look at the back, pull the trigger a little and see the hammer was not cocked to start with. Just as good a design as a Glock. And the Kel Tec costs a lot less and weighs a lot less too.

So those having complaints about Kel Tec should realize any mass produced product will have some lemons now and then, computer controlled CNC machines aren't perfect. Ever get a problem new car? Some things with a Kel Tec you can work on yourself. Not with a Glock or modern day cars!
And Kel Tec is in the USA, not Italy, Germany, Japan, China, etc. where they don't care.

Enough from me. Let's hear it from fowler--he knows it all;0

og

Rusty Shackleford

06-19-2005, 07:07

To each his own..

My experience has been:

P32 - functioned flawlessly. Less malfunctions than I've had with my glocks.

P3AT - should have kept my P32. Mag would eject each time a shot was fired, which isn't going to help in a self defense situation.

P32 - Traded the lemon in for a new P32 which has worked just as well as the first.

Those of you who wouldnt let me pay you to carry a Kel-Tec.. do you have any suggestions for something of similar size/weight/caliber? I have a few ideas but don't really know which pistols are worth it.

Marshall

06-19-2005, 11:12

It has a tingle
And a tang
That starts
The day off
With a bang
Kel-Tec

Love my p3at!
:)

CajunBass

06-22-2005, 14:19

I like my P-11. I've only got about 450 rounds through it, but other than one FTEj about round 20, it's gone BANG every time I've pulled the trigger.

bac1023

06-22-2005, 20:47

Originally posted by CajunBass
I like my P-11. I've only got about 450 rounds through it, but other than one FTEj about round 20, it's gone BANG every time I've pulled the trigger.
I'm planning on getting a P-11 soon.

Squaw Man Wolfer

06-27-2005, 04:02

Kel-Tec will fix it for free,

and cheerfully return it to your next-of-kin.

Laserlips

06-27-2005, 06:01

Originally posted by Squaw Man Wolfer
Kel-Tec will fix it for free,

and cheerfully return it to your next-of-kin.

See... KelTec Customer Service keeps on ticking even after your ticker quits.. Gotta love KelTec's!

;P

valkyrie182

07-08-2005, 15:13

I have a Kel-Tec P-3AT and have had only one issue with it, and that was with bi-metal cased ammo. Apparently, the manufacturer recommends not using steel or bi-metal ammo, as the extractor will not function correctly with it for some reason. I have had no problems whatsoever with it shooting CCI .380, SXTs, or Corbon .380s. Accuracy is an issue beyond 7 yards, but it isn't supposed to be winning any accuracy competitions. No fails to fire, only the extracotr issue with the bi-metal cased wolf ammo.
On another note, if I made all of my decisions about firearms based on my absolute first impression/experience with them, I would probably think all of my guns were crap, with the exception of the GP. More of the "if it aint a 1911 or costs less than 500, it has to be a piece of junk" crowd seems to dislike the Kel-Tecs than anyone else.

Laserlips

07-08-2005, 15:29

Originally posted by valkyrie182
Accuracy is an issue beyond 7 yards, but it isn't supposed to be winning any accuracy competitions. More of the "if it aint a 1911 or costs less than 500, it has to be a piece of junk" crowd seems to dislike the Kel-Tecs than anyone else.

My P11 and my P32 are more than accurate at 7 yards or less. BUT, if you shoot anyone beyond self defense range you'll have to get a good (read: "Crooked") lawyer to keep you out of trouble anyway. Even then the deceased' families will be trying to sue you anyway.

As far as I'm concerned the whole KelTec pistol line is designed, advertised, and sold as personal protection firearms. If you want a target pistol, you gotta go elsewhere.

I agree that there is a portion of firearm owners who think that the only criteria for pistol to be good is the price... Mo' cost, better pistol. I don't think that's necessarily the case.

In my old fart opinion I have found the KelTec and Bersa/Firestorm line of firearms to be more than worth the money. I think particularly the Bersa's are still "under the radar" for most of American firearm purchasers.

Seven yards works for me..........

Best Wishes
JP- ;f

50 Cent

07-16-2005, 17:17

Don't forget the Makarov - REAL good value for the money in a similiar (and somewhat more powerful) package then the Bersa.

More durable too - given how my Bersa self-destructed at the range one day.

Laserlips

07-16-2005, 18:37

Originally posted by 50 Cent
Don't forget the Makarov - REAL good value for the money in a similiar (and somewhat more powerful) package then the Bersa.

More durable too - given how my Bersa self-destructed at the range one day.

I've never read a bad word about the Mak's. I held, and shot my friends and just didn't like it. The sights were too small for my tired old eyes, and the MAK just didn't "fit" my hand to my liking.

Is the 9X18 substationally more powerful than the 380?

I know the MAK is built like a truck, but who ya gonna call if it does develop a problem? I'm not sure "Ivan"'s in the business now..

Bersa's have a lifetime warranty.. So, the one you had that "blew up" should have been fixed or replaced free, right?

Best Wishes.

JP
;f

goldfish

07-23-2005, 23:59

YO Fowler!!!! PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN!!! Have you shot a kel-tec? Are you simply hating because they're affordable? Afraid poor folks will actually be able to defend themselves? That's very antebellum of you. Ironically, you can probably get a discount on your NAACP membership dues with that attitude.:soap:

michael t

07-24-2005, 13:42

Originally posted by goldfish
YO Fowler!!!! PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN!!! Have you shot a kel-tec? Are you simply hating because they're affordable? Afraid poor folks will actually be able to defend themselves? That's very antebellum of you. Ironically, you can probably get a discount on your NAACP membership dues with that attitude.:soap:

Folwer can speak for himself but as I remember he HAD a Kel Tec and got tired of sending it back.
Now will some one explain why Kel Tec owners admit to sending the pistols back 2 or more times and still defend it. If was another brand it would be POS, trash,, junk don't waste money. Many take home and do the Fluff and buff before shooting I have not needed to do these things to my PPK/S,Bersa or Colt Mustang Why are they needed on Kel Tec which cost more than my Bersa. And before you tell me how light and small it is. I don't care about that because that is part of the problem. I can and do carry the PPK/S and Mustang in my pocket using Don Hume holsters and Forget I have them their.I will choose the workmanship of Walters, Colt and Bersa over a Kel Tec any day. As far as a Kel Tec goes, their is one thing I know for sure, As long as their made we will have plenty to read about. FedX and UPS also wants you to keep buying, keeps their people working.;a ;a

SouthTexasrep

07-28-2005, 17:14

My brother in law has a Kelt Tec P11. Between the two of us, at the range we've put at least 15 or 16 boxes through the P-11, WITH NO JAMS. That doesnt include him going on his own or taking his wife(my sister). A Kel Tec would be an awesome buy in my opinion. I just wish they made a 10 mm

Marshall

07-28-2005, 19:49

It should be noted, that the Kel-Tec P-11 has kits you can buy to turn it into a 40 or 357 sig shooting pistol. Very amazing little gun!
http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal.htm

halfmoonclip

07-28-2005, 20:00

The 9mm KelTec has a great rep for reliability and a trigger straight from hell.
It is also a pretty darn big pistol, as such things go.
Unless you have pockets like phone booths, a pocket gun it ain't IMHO, tho' some here feel a G36 is a pocket gun.
Guess you could hide a RPG under your coat as well.;)
Moon

SouthTexasrep

07-28-2005, 20:02

Some people like trenchcoats...

But in the way of a P-11, I know someone who carries there's concealed with a belt clip clipped to their boxers, kind of liek a cheap crotch holster.

halfmoonclip

07-28-2005, 20:14

Doc Holiday figured out what you should hide under a long coat if you had one.:) Nothing like a twelve gauge double as a fight stopper.
The whole issue with the little KelTecs is their absolute ease of concealment. There are certainly better fighting guns out there, but virtually all are harder to hide.
There is almost no excuse for not taking a P32 with you, regardless of your mode of dress.
A nine hitched to your boxers is a mind movie....
Moon

SouthTexasrep

07-28-2005, 20:16

mind movie...?

and the i mean the trench coat for an RPG

halfmoonclip

07-28-2005, 20:22

Tex-
Ya got to admit that you can win a pi**ing contest with an RPG!;)
Moon

SouthTexasrep

07-28-2005, 20:26

haha;z For some reason i dont think RPG's will eve be accepted as legal concealed carry weapons. oh well, just gotta work on my aim i guess

Marshall

07-28-2005, 20:39

The P-11 trigger is fairly tough, however that won't matter a bit in a close up self-defense situation. If you are shooting at someone far away, you had better QUIT DOING THAT, unless you are a cop! The P-11 IS a bit too big for a pocket. If you want a pocket gun, go for the Kel-Tec P3AT.
http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal2.htm

CajunBass

07-28-2005, 22:20

I don't think the trigger on my P-11 is any worse than most DA revolvers.

halfmoonclip

07-29-2005, 16:00

Cajun-
There seems to be more than one trigger spring setup on them. My buddy has one, and it always works, but the trigger is plain awful. Far worse than a decent Smith Jay-gun.
Others here claim YMMV.
Moon

CajunBass

07-29-2005, 23:00

Moon, the early ones I understand had a 10.5 trigger spring. The newer ones come with an 8.5 lb spring. I emailed KT and they said I have the 8.5. I'm not sure where the change was made, but someone on KTOG.org can tell you if you're interested. I've got about 500 rounds through mine, and between that the the addition of the trigger shoe, I don't find it objectional at all. It's not a target trigger by any means, but it's not bad. Again as you said, YMMV. ;f

SouthTexasrep

07-29-2005, 23:08

im kind of a newb...obviously. LOL. what does YMMV stand for?

also what is FWIW, that seems to be pretty common

denfoote

07-30-2005, 05:16

Ok.
You hate Kel-Tec.
You have made it your life's work to bring them down!!!!
You've made your point.
Now go crawl back under your rock!!!

CajunBass

07-30-2005, 07:33

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary. (Sort of your experience may not be the same as mine.)

FWIW = For What it's Worth.

SouthTexasrep

07-30-2005, 09:48

Thanks, now some posts will be easier to understand

halfmoonclip

07-31-2005, 19:52

Cajun-
My buddy keeps the KelTec nine as a car gun; if someone steals it, it ain't the end of the world.
Acutally, he keeps it in a lock box chained under the seat, so stealing it won't be easy. All the same, he's happy to have it close at hand, and it does always work; load it, lock it up, and forget it.
He has experimented with the trigger stop (made with an eraser), but neither one of us can do much damage to a B29 silhouette at 50'. We both have Kahrs as well, and that 50' silhouette is in a world of sh** with those.
I'll ask him about the trigger spring; thanks.
Moon

CajunBass

08-01-2005, 08:34

I've got the trigger stop on mine too. I've never shot it at 50'. It's a seven yard and less gun for me. The trigger and the light weight combine to make it hard to shoot past there. At 21' I can shoot "minute of paper plate", which while it's not great, is good enough. If I take my time, and stage the trigger it will do better but I usually pop 'em off pretty quick. I admit that I like shooting my Hi-Point better. It's got a pretty decent single action trigger (as does my Makarov) and the weight dampens the recoil a lot, but it's hard to beat the P-11's combination of light weight, small size, magazine capacity, and powerful cartridge. Oh yea. It's reliability.

The Kahr I'm sure is a good gun. I've never even seen one though, and frankly it would have been out of my price range when I got my P-11. (What can I say? I like "inexpensive" guns.)

If he does happen to have the heavier trigger spring, I believe that Kel-Tec will either replace it for him, or send him the spring. Also the trigger shoe will reduce the apparent trigger pull.

halfmoonclip

08-01-2005, 09:06

Cajun-
The B29 silhouette is a reduced scale version of the bigger (B28?) version; it is still a fairly large target.

You are correct that 21' is a more realistic range for a defense gun; it just gives ya' confidence to hit something at a greater distance. If you actually shot/shot at someone 50' away, you would have some 'splainin to do.

Actually, I need to do more practice at shorter distance; sometimes that is a problem depending on how your range is arranged. We aren't allowed downrange to shoot at one indoor club, and another one insists that the travelling targets go all the way to the backstop.

Does the shoe present any problems as far as sticking out past the guard?

Thanks,
Moon

CajunBass

08-01-2005, 16:34

Not that I've noticed Moon. I just got back into shooting after a 20 year layoff, so I'm sort of starting all over again. I started close so I'd be able to see a hole in the target once in a while.

Fortunatly the indoor range where I shoot will let you do about anything as long as you're safe. Draw from the holster, rapid fire, run the targets out as far or as close as you want. The outdoor range only has 7 and 15 yard pistol lanes, but they have shade and a good breeze most of the time. :)

IMAS

08-10-2005, 00:48

Originally posted by AngryBassets
Fowler,

Did the CEO of Kel Tec make a pass at your wife or something?

The story goes something like this....

Two or three years ago, before Ohio passed the new concealed carry law, fowler still carried illegally. Well of course with the fear of going to a "pound-me-in-the-ass prison," Fowler wanted to go as light and small as he could. So he bought himself a Kel-Tec. Well right about the time he got it he decided to take the wife and kids on a weekend trip. So he took his Kel-Tec out of the box and put it in his pocket and hit the road. No test firing no nothing. And of course this brings us to a point that implies slight mental retardation...he feels so strongly about self defense that he is willing to carry illegally yet he is willing to carry a gun out of town, for several days, with no back up gun to protect his whole family and it has not been function tested or anything. So he gets home, takes it to the range, and what do you know? The thing is not even close to reliable. And as you can see from the terrible spelling...somethings not right with this guy so instead of admit his slip up, he decides to march against Kel-Tec. It's not his fault he's an idiot, it's the guns fault. Hey...I've heard this logic before...

I have been giving serious consideration to putting up a website featuring all of Fowler's Kel-Tec posts. With all the spelling and grammar mistakes, some of these posts are barely readable.