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d0truji
03-15-2005, 08:03
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CGuns
03-15-2005, 08:14
Is it Obsidian Black, Black Opal Metallic or Brilliant Black?

Very nice. Do an ECU upgrade and it will become even more peppy!
It has a great engine that is designed very well for the car.
Make sure you don't abide by the selective service indicator in the dash. Make no mistake, Mercedes-Benz builds high performance vehicles and they should be serviced every 3K. They tell you to change the tranny filter never. Make sure you change it every 25K-30K miles.
It will run forever if you take care of it. This selective service deal is programmed obsolescence.

PM me and I can give you more details as to what I do on my R230 chassis.

Regards, CGuns

CGuns
03-15-2005, 08:18
P.S. If you join the Mercedes-Benz Club of America, that is a good thing to do, because the STAR magazine is really a good read. Furthermore, you usually get even better treatment at the dealer and they take care of you on service with price breaks.
Find a good service advisor at your local dealer. Take care of him. Bring him in a pizza during lunch when you drop off the car.
They will take care of you. My last bill, they replaced $3K in parts for free. It is under warranty, but they weren't required to replace them as per the warranty. He did it anyway. The previous time, the glovebox broke and it was aa $700+ item and he took care of it for me, with no charge.
Plus, they detail it evertime I drop it off and don't charge a dime. A little goes a long way with these guys.

Regards, CGuns

CZ-75A
03-15-2005, 10:57
Originally posted by CGuns
P.S. If you join the Mercedes-Benz Club of America, that is a good thing to do, because the STAR magazine is really a good read. Furthermore, you usually get even better treatment at the dealer and they take care of you on service with price breaks.
Find a good service advisor at your local dealer. Take care of him. Bring him in a pizza during lunch when you drop off the car.
They will take care of you. My last bill, they replaced $3K in parts for free. It is under warranty, but they weren't required to replace them as per the warranty. He did it anyway. The previous time, the glovebox broke and it was aa $700+ item and he took care of it for me, with no charge.
Plus, they detail it evertime I drop it off and don't charge a dime. A little goes a long way with these guys.

Regards, CGuns

Should you have the glove box break or need to replace $3000 in parts on such a durable and reliable car?

CGuns
03-15-2005, 11:16
They are very durable and reliable. Perhaps that is why they have the lowest depreciation of all cars currently offered in both the U.S. and Global markets.

The glovebox latch is electronically controlled in the R230, using the transmitter key, you can lock it. It didn't want to unlock after I locked it, so, they removed the entire glovebox and geve me a new box and latch, not to mention pulling apart the whole left hand side of the interior and removing the passenger seat.

The $3K in parts was trim panel stuff that I didn't know I even cracked. They were in the trunk and I guess I banged them up a bit.
Total repairs on invoice, along with my service was $3K roughly.
Total that I paid : $0.00

It is worth it to own a Mercedes. You pay for this kind of stuff up front, with the higher purchase price, however.

When it comes time to sell it, you will at least get back the maximum value possible, when compared to other cars available.

Mechanically, as long as you keep up with service, they will run forever.

CZ-75A
03-15-2005, 11:37
Originally posted by CGuns
They are very durable and reliable. Perhaps that is why they have the lowest depreciation of all cars currently offered in both the U.S. and Global markets.

The glovebox latch is electronically controlled in the R230, using the transmitter key, you can lock it. It didn't want to unlock after I locked it, so, they removed the entire glovebox and geve me a new box and latch, not to mention pulling apart the whole left hand side of the interior and removing the passenger seat.

The $3K in parts was trim panel stuff that I didn't know I even cracked. They were in the trunk and I guess I banged them up a bit.
Total repairs on invoice, along with my service was $3K roughly.
Total that I paid : $0.00

It is worth it to own a Mercedes. You pay for this kind of stuff up front, with the higher purchase price, however.

When it comes time to sell it, you will at least get back the maximum value possible, when compared to other cars available.

Mechanically, as long as you keep up with service, they will run forever.

Like Honda and Toyota.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/08/pf/autos/residual_value/

fnfalman
03-15-2005, 12:23
I like the new SLKs. It's not hard edged like the other similar sports cars but it is a dramatic improvement over the original SLK. But please, please, please, tell me that you didn't get the slushbox transmission?

CGuns
03-15-2005, 12:34
ROFLMAO!!!

Actually, it looks like he got the 7 speed auto tranny....

This is a very nice transmission. The older 5 speeds can't hold a candle to it IMHO.

Eh, if you want a German with a good manual tranny, you are really limited to the BMW for the U.S. market. They, obviously, have a lot of Motorsport experience and have dabbled in it much more than Mercedes.

In Europe, you can get the older 7 series with a manual tranny, as used in the movie, "The Transporter".
Also, the older Audi A8/S8, like what was used in the movie "Ronin" actually was equipped with a manual tranny.
Loads of fun both ways. The "old" S8 is a killer car. A lot of balls and it is stealth, plus classy.

d0truji
03-15-2005, 14:01
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Texas_Preacher
03-15-2005, 14:10
Glad to hear you are happy with your new car! I just can't seem to warm up to the new "Jimmie Durante"* looking front end on them.















* For the young bucks on the board, Jimmie Durante was an actor with a large nose. ;e

CZ-75A
03-15-2005, 14:41
Originally posted by d0truji


CZ-75A,

Any car can have "issues" you kinda expect that with anything now a days. I've have Hondas and currently have three Toyotas. I like them both.



True, but M-B issues cost more to resolve and when the brand was ranked 29th out of 37 makes, for quality issues,last I heard, one expects that you'll see them more, which is a disgrace for something that costs as much.

Not to rain on your parade, as it looks nice and will perform well.

d0truji
03-15-2005, 15:14
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CGuns
03-15-2005, 15:15
1. Mercedes-Benz Club of America
http://www.mbca.org/
They have different chapters, too.
You can join up and have fun meetings with other Mercedes enthusiasts and these events are often sponsored by local firms that cater to Mercedes owners. Many of the chapters are fun. Kind of depends on who runs them, as in who is on the board for your local chapter.

2. If you want to make it go even faster, you can do 2 things.
After you break here in, about 1,000-1,500 miles:
A. Turn off ESP by depressing the ESP switch. In your speedo cluster, an orange triangle should appear, at least, that is what happens on the R230. It has an exclamation point in it.
This basically turns off your electronic stability protection. You shouldn't do this in wet/snowy/dangerous conditions. Only on bright, sunny days. If you want to rocket off, leave it off and then turn it back on by pressing the ESP switch. Should be on the console.
B. The tranny is driver adaptive in most new Mercedes cars. If you stop at a stop light, floor it and I do mean pedal to the feintuft velour and rocket off. Do this several times (3-5). You should notice the shifts speed up and the car becomes more responsive. These rocketing off's should be done in succession. One after the other. Find a place away from civilization to do this. Or, go out and find a place that has a long strip and is away from other cars.
I don't know if it applies the your car, but it should. That is how you get the R230 to become more responsive. It works.
C. This is a handling issue. You car might have an ABC Sport Switch on the console (Active Body Control). You can press this and it will tighten up the suspension and lessen body roll while cornering, etc...
Even during "spirited" driving, I leave it off. It works, but, it deadens the experience to much and I can't feel the car as well.

Every once in a while, you need to run the car and get it going. They are meant to be driven, so, if you calipers are hot and you can cook pizza off your dual chromed exhaust pipes, you are doing good.
You can toss them around and they are meant to be DRIVEN.
Think about the conditions that they are designed for and used to. Long stretches of German and European Autobahn, etc...They can keep pace for long periods of time while being safe and comfortable for the driver. Enjoy yours how it was originally intended to be enjoyed. You will love it even more and will realize how controllable and effotless warp speed is. Again, this isn't for public roads, but, I am sure you can find a track or similar in your neck of the woods. Be safe and wear your safety buckle.
Much like how we take shooting classes to improve our weapons skills and accuracy, driving classes can also be very beneficial to a new owner of a car such as yours.
I can send you my invitation to the 2005 AMG Challenge so you can learn more about events in your area.

Hope this helps, CGuns

P.S. In order for you to sound "Salty" at the dealership, refer to your car as an R-171. This is the chassis/body code for your SLK. Most people don't know this, but, enthusiasts do as do the people at the dealership. R = Roadster and all Mercedes roadsters are distinguished by the "R" designation prior to the numeric value.

CGuns
03-15-2005, 15:33
Originally posted by CZ-75A
True, but M-B issues cost more to resolve and when the brand was ranked 29th out of 37 makes, for quality issues,last I heard, one expects that you'll see them more, which is a disgrace for something that costs as much.

Not to rain on your parade, as it looks nice and will perform well.

1. Cost more to resolve? Who told you this? The warranty is extensive and I have to say, having owned all sorts of "imported cars", Mercedes-Benz maintains the most extensive inventory of parts, even those for discontinued models, BAR NONE. No one can compare to Mercedes in terms of parts availability and this is on a world wide level, too.

2. Couch critics might complain that they have quality and reliability issues. Most are testers that have never owned these cars for long periods of time. Mine have always served me very well. If they didn't I wouldn't buy them. In fact, of all of my cars that I have had, Mercedes has always been at the top of quality and reliability.
The Mercedes Benz today isn't the same as it was 25 years ago. They couldn't be. There isn't room for it in a world of decreasing budgets and the need to stay competitive. There aren't 6.9 450SEL's and Bank Valut 1997 S600's in the current line up, but heft has been replaced by agility and it is still a damn fine product to which all others are judged.

If you were to take a worldwide survey, from Kuala Lumpur, to Dubai and Rio in Brazil, Moscow and everywhere in between and asked this simple question to the world's population,
"If you could only drive one car for the rest of your life and money wasn't an issue,"
The unequivocating, vast majority of the answer base would be Mercedes Benz. The star is respected world-wide like nothing else.

CZ-75A
03-15-2005, 16:47
Originally posted by CGuns
1. Cost more to resolve? Who told you this? The warranty is extensive and I have to say, having owned all sorts of "imported cars", Mercedes-Benz maintains the most extensive inventory of parts, even those for discontinued models, BAR NONE. No one can compare to Mercedes in terms of parts availability and this is on a world wide level, too.

2. Couch critics might complain that they have quality and reliability issues. Most are testers that have never owned these cars for long periods of time. Mine have always served me very well. If they didn't I wouldn't buy them. In fact, of all of my cars that I have had, Mercedes has always been at the top of quality and reliability.
The Mercedes Benz today isn't the same as it was 25 years ago. They couldn't be. There isn't room for it in a world of decreasing budgets and the need to stay competitive. There aren't 6.9 450SEL's and Bank Valut 1997 S600's in the current line up, but heft has been replaced by agility and it is still a damn fine product to which all others are judged.

If you were to take a worldwide survey, from Kuala Lumpur, to Dubai and Rio in Brazil, Moscow and everywhere in between and asked this simple question to the world's population,
"If you could only drive one car for the rest of your life and money wasn't an issue,"
The unequivocating, vast majority of the answer base would be Mercedes Benz. The star is respected world-wide like nothing else.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/09/yourmoney/mercedes.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a.PaxpnkBYdU&refer=us

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1400331,00.html

http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0504typ0.html

http://www.detnews.com/2004/insiders/0406/14/d01-141703.htm

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/trends7.html?apc=31382522333596

http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/autos/cr_auto_reliability/

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motoring/2005/0223/3755292140MOT23MERCEDES.html

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0411/09/b01-328882.htm

http://www.forbes.com/2003/12/02/cz_jf_1202flint.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,2763,1013589,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,2763,1345289,00.html

Clydeglide
03-15-2005, 17:08
LOL, My 84 y/o dad just got one!

:cool:

fnfalman
03-15-2005, 18:25
The new Mercedes 7-speed auto tranny is indeed a great slushbox, unfortunately it's still a slushbox and I don't really blame Merc for coming out with this thing because the bulk of Merc owners like auto trannies. The BMW 6-speed auto tranny also isn't a slouch either.

I guess I'm just old fashion and like to row the gears myself. I may be tempted by the new 7-speed SMG transmission by BMW that is being used in the M5 and M6 though. It's not a modified manual tranny but a true SMG from the ground up.

The AMG version of this SLK will also sport the 7-speeds tranny as well. If BMW were to refuse to come up with a Z4 M-version soon, then I'd be looking into this SLK55 AMG. But ARGHHHH the slush box!!!:soap:

CZ-75A
03-15-2005, 18:30
Originally posted by fnfalman


The AMG version of this SLK will also sport the 7-speeds tranny as well. If BMW were to refuse to come up with a Z4 M-version soon, then I'd be looking into this SLK55 AMG. But ARGHHHH the slush box!!!:soap:

Buy a slightly used Z8.

d0truji
03-15-2005, 19:08
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CGuns
03-15-2005, 19:36
Originally posted by CZ-75A
Buy a slightly used Z8.

Why? ;g

CGuns
03-15-2005, 19:44
Originally posted by fnfalman
The new Mercedes 7-speed auto tranny is indeed a great slushbox, unfortunately it's still a slushbox and I don't really blame Merc for coming out with this thing because the bulk of Merc owners like auto trannies. The BMW 6-speed auto tranny also isn't a slouch either.

I guess I'm just old fashion and like to row the gears myself. I may be tempted by the new 7-speed SMG transmission by BMW that is being used in the M5 and M6 though. It's not a modified manual tranny but a true SMG from the ground up.

The AMG version of this SLK will also sport the 7-speeds tranny as well. If BMW were to refuse to come up with a Z4 M-version soon, then I'd be looking into this SLK55 AMG. But ARGHHHH the slush box!!!:soap:


Agreed. The true 7 speed SMG tranny does look absolutely wild. I read some of the engineering that went into it and it is unreal.
2 of my buds have E46 chassis M3's (New model), both with the SMG tranny, which I guess will be considered the "old" SMG system.
Anyways, one is Coupe, the other is Convertible. In terms of speed between the gears and responsiveness, considering how disconnected the driver is and the amount of electronics involved, it is superb.
I still would select the ability to shift myself, over SMG though.
By having the clutch, you increase your control over the car and can double clutch,double de-clutch, heel-toe, etc....All necessary for truly good, rewarding driving.

CGuns

P.S. Order up the starter car care kit from www.griotsgarage.com
I have tried everything from Meguiar's, Zymol, Mother's, etc...and nothing has ever replicated the results of the Griot's product line and it is very easy to use. In South Florida heat and humidity, Meguiar's would set almost instantly and it was tough to remove, even when using my porter cable dual action polisher. Try it. If it doesn't amaze you, they will buy it back. You will like it and your car will like you for it.

BinLurking
03-15-2005, 20:13
Originally posted by CZ-75A
Not to rain on your parade,,,,,, It's exactly what you're doing, raining on his parade. He is trying to enjoy his car and you're not letting him. What kind of car he should have bought that you would approve? An American made car like a Z-28? ;z

d0truji
03-15-2005, 20:25
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CGuns
03-15-2005, 21:36
Originally posted by BinLurking
It's exactly what you're doing, raining on his parade. He is trying to enjoy his car and you're not letting him. What kind of car he should have bought that you would approve? An American made car like a Z-28? ;z

ROFLMAO!

I scanned 3 of his links that he posted in the "Big Link Post".
I have the feeling we have an "uninitiated member" amongst us. As soon as you touch German, you won't go back!
I didn't realize the Japanese/Asian imports like Honda, Toyota, etc...were doing so well for depreciation values, however.
But, after the Germans, you can either go American or Japanese and the Japanese have been leading the U.S. market now for a good 10 or so years. So, in the end, I am not suprised. American cars on average have horrible resale values, which makes purchasing them less economically productive. But, there are some fun ones!
Luxury aside, I still wouldn't see myself owning a Japanese car, because they aren't nearly as safe as a German car. There is something about heft and well crafted things that gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling. Much like racking back the slide on a Sig P226, the heft and "tank-like" nature of it is re-assuring. I never have had that feeling when riding in a Japanese car.
My partner had an Acura NSX for a while. This was 1995 or so. It was a superbly engineered car that was very innovative, making the most out of what can be considered a dimunitive engine. It lacked soul though. I will leave it as a gentleman's disagreement, but, I will warn you, don't set foot inside a German unless you are ready for your perceptions to be reversed. Words and text on the internet will not be able to describe the feeling the car will give you.
It is "old world".
That is all.

CGuns
03-15-2005, 21:48
Originally posted by d0truji
You seem to have some motoring experiance. I took a look at the web site you suggested and did indeed order the starter kit. (There was issues with the site) We shall soon see.

I have some questions for you. I will send a PM tomorrow.


Thanks BinLurking


Sign up so you can receive his catalog.
If I ever had a mail order or a catalog company, I would want to model mine after his. Richard Griot, the owner, is, as he says: "Car Craaaaaaaazy".
He is also a perfectionist.
Inside the catalog, you will find the finest "Boy stuff for the garage" on the face of the earth. It is also chock-full of mother-in-law jokes and pictures of his mother-in-law stealing his tools and meddling in his garage. Great laughs.
He has really esoteric tool lines, like USAG which is an Italian tool line that Ferrari uses as well as the vaunted FACOM line from France, which is used to assemble the spectacular McLaren F1 series of street cars. There is a lot of really good stuff that I had never seen before. I have been buying from him since 1997.
This was after trying some of the other brands I mentioned above. In a 2 year period, I probably invested close to $1K in products from Meguiar's alone. ;Q
The Griot's Garage "system" is simpler to use, takes less time, lasts longer and provides greatly enhanced Color, Depth and Clarity. Most Concours D' Elegance participants (Pebble Beach) use his products and it is backed up by photographic proof in the catalog, not to mention customer endorsements and museums that use it on near priceless Ferrari 250 GTO's and the like. I like firms that put their money where there mouth is and back up their claims.
The customer service department is also highly competent, as Richard Griot sends them to Griot's Car Care School and they work with every product made, and use it on the cars they own themselves.

Great company and you couldn't ask for better service, or a better product.

CGuns

CGuns
03-15-2005, 22:50
Originally posted by d0truji
I looked at the SLK55 AMG. It was only 4K more than the one I got but it was pretty base. If you can imagine a 64K base car.

I just could not justify the V8. I don't know. It was nice though. Fast as heck too. (I didn't drive it) Heck they almost didn't let me sit in it.

FN, have you driven a new SLK with the 7 speed auto? I'm trying to imagine what you mean by slush box. I'm not saying your wrong, I just don't know any better I guess.



1. Slush Box refers to an Automatic Transmission and us usually the term used by auto enthusiasts that like to shift. It almost has a negative connotation.;)

2. You made the right move not to get the AMG model IMHO.
You realize, the car you have is reasonably light weight and compact and the new 350 engine is excellent as to a power to weight ratio. American buyers are obsessed with V8 power and, to some extent, I agree. But, certain chassis aren't designed for it. The ML for instance was designed and made for the 6 cylinder engine. It was first introduced with the 3.2L engine and is now using the 3.7L engine, however, it is dubbed the "ML350". They went with the V8 models to please American buyers, despite the fact that it really wasn't designed with this in mind.
I strongly feel the 6 cylinder engine is the better choice for the SLK chassis. You will get excellent power, albeit at higher RPM's, but, that is why it is a sports car and you will have the added benefit of listening to its throaty rasp.
Put a point after the first number on the back of a Benz and it will give you the engine size. 500 = 5.0 V8. 600 = 6.0 V12 "K" is a new term, it stands for the German word "Kompressor" which translates into supercharger.
The SLK55 uses the standard 3 valve V8 in the new "500" series of Mercedes cars, but it is bored and stroked to get the increased displacement, which only amounts to 1/2 a liter. It is also naturally aspirated and doesn't benefit from forced induction, like the "K" cars, which yield enough earth shattering power and torque to make most do more than blink. I imagine it has in the standard AMG form, added items like the AMG exhaust which is less restrictive and free flowing and items of that nature. In the end, it is a noticeable difference, but not worth the money. Haven driven the other "55 AMG" cars with this engine side by side with their 500 counterparts not tuned in Affalterbach, the biggest thing that is missing is the seductive exhaust note from the AMG exhaust and the softer leather, which comes from South German bull hides and is full grain, not corrected grain.
Since you car has the AMG package, it is fair to mention the following.
AMG was once an independent Mercedes-Benz tuning firm, and perhaps the oldest one in existence. They have been toying with high power Mercedes cars since the late 1960's. They concerned themselves with taking the sedate factory Mercedes cars and injecting them with high performance engines for better performance on the autobahn (less restricted in the 1960's and 1970's compared to today). They did all sorts of horsepower improvements and bored the engines, etc...Their product became so popular and in such high demand that they progressed on to designing Aerodynamic styling parts to reduce drag on the car and improve stability at high speed, along with other high performance items like bigger wheels for more surface area on the pavement and brake system upgrades to slow down the cars with massive engine power upgrades. This again progressed into haute couture "high fashion" design elements and personalization of the car which resulted in fancy leather interiors in a myriad of colors and wood veneer options, etc...(The U.S. buyers don't get to see this, but in Europe, you can order your AMG or Designo Mercedes in multiple special paint and interior combos. The U.S. market only has 1 or 2 color options compared to more than 30 in Europe).
AMG is an acronym for the following:
The "A" and the "M" are from the first letter in the 2 founders last names, Hans Werner Aufrecht and Erhard Melcher.
"G" stands for Grosspach, the town in Affalterbach, Germany where the company was founded.
AMG was once an "Independent tuning company". Their modifications were so extensive to some Mercedes cars that on the title of the car, Make would say AMG, instead of Mercedes because they were a licensed vehicle manufacturer. In the early 1990's, because of their success, AMG was bought up by DBAG (Daimler Benz AG, AG = publically traded firm) and was integrated with Mercedes-Benz and charged with the design and engineering of ultra-high performance Mercedes cars for someone that couldn't live with "off the shelf".
The main competitor to AMG is a German firm in Bottrop, Germany named Brabus, after the founder. They make perhaps the most wicked Mercedes-Benz, MCC Smart and Maybach cars on the planet, fully tuned with even bigger engines, nicer leather, fancier wheels and a higher price tag. Ultra Exclusive. They too, are one of the few licensed auto makers in addition to AMG that are "tuning firms".

Thought you would like the history lesson, lotta typing, but you should know about this. You are part of the MB cult and the family.

CGuns
:cool:

SIGSAREBETTER
03-15-2005, 23:10
*crosses legs tightly*


You'll all have to excuse me, but I'm extremely aroused by the car.....

fnfalman
03-16-2005, 08:49
I haven't driven the 7-speed auto tranny Merc but I have driven the new Bimmers with their new auto trannies. These state-of-the-art auto trannies are awesome comparing to their predecessors, but you are still expecting it to think for you and sometimes the black box is befuddled and there is a hesistation between downshifting and/or upshifting.

I hate to say it but I think that the SMG is the way of the future. It has all the mechanical advantages of the stick shift and the convenience of the old slushbox...once the manufacturers perfect the auto shifting software, that is.

As to why I wouldn't think of the BMW Z8. First of all, I don't buy used car. That's just a personal policy. Secondly, it's too heavy of a car. Yes, it's fast. Yes, it handles well. But it is heavy.

CGuns
03-16-2005, 08:55
The Z8 is nothing spectacular IMHO. It is a BMW roadster with an E39 M5 engine in it and not much more.
I think slightly used cars are great purchases, as you let the previous owner take the initial depreciation hit and, if it is a Benz or a BMW, you will get the CPO warranty which is 6 years/100K miles or better.
I don't know about the SMG yet. I still like to be able to match rpm's between up shifts and down shifts along with having the ability to pause in neutral, but, the amount of people that actually know how to do this consistently are becoming fewer and fewer. Probably less than 10% of owners. Synchro gear boxes killed the "default" motorsport training learned while operating non-synched gearboxes. What fun!:cool:

CZ-75A
03-16-2005, 10:35
Originally posted by CGuns
Why? ;g

Because every doctor and lawyer doesn't have one. Because it actually has some sporting pretensions. Because it's a manual. AFAIK, M-B is pretty much an auto-only company, save for a few models, which are sixes. I'm going to also assume that the majority of M-Bs still have recirculating ball steering rather than rack-and-pinion. Let's not mention the indifferent brake-by-wire that M-B seems to be doing away with.

CZ-75A
03-16-2005, 10:45
Originally posted by BinLurking
It's exactly what you're doing, raining on his parade. He is trying to enjoy his car and you're not letting him. What kind of car he should have bought that you would approve? An American made car like a Z-28? ;z

Well, American makes now have fewer quality issues than Euro makes, but a Z-28 would hardly be my choice of a sporting American make. That honor would go to Corvette.

He obviously doesn't need my approval, but he should be well aware that he owns a toy that has a track-record for poor reliability and one should view it like owning a British sports car. If it's his weekend car, then that's fine. And I'm certainly not hindering his enjoyment of his car, as that comes from putting it through its paces, rather than writing about it on the internet.

Were I the one shelling out the money for an amusement car, I'd have to pick an Infiniti G35 6-spd coupe (or Corvette). I might have said Lexus SC, but that car is only for the blind (who can't see the "styling").

BinLurking
03-16-2005, 13:38
I can tell you about the quality of the Corvette that I bought brand new in 1994, yes brand new. But, that will just bring back a lot of bad memories and open up old wounds. That was the last time I bought an American-made car. I have bought 5 other brand-new cars after that, all German/Japanese origin. I guess YMMV.

d0truji
03-16-2005, 13:50
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CGuns
03-16-2005, 15:50
Originally posted by CZ-75A
Because every doctor and lawyer doesn't have one. Because it actually has some sporting pretensions. Because it's a manual. AFAIK, M-B is pretty much an auto-only company, save for a few models, which are sixes. I'm going to also assume that the majority of M-Bs still have recirculating ball steering rather than rack-and-pinion. Let's not mention the indifferent brake-by-wire that M-B seems to be doing away with.


You see them around where I live. I don't know about you. It is supposedly a rare car, but I have seen more than a fair share. My partner who had owned the NSX traded the NSX for a 993 Porsche Twin Turbo, when they were still air cooled. This was then traded in for a Cosmos Black on Red leather Z8 when they first hit the U.S. shores. It is well made, in the finest BMW fashion, comfortable and fast, but it doesn't do anything special or unique. Alpina's biggest mistake was taking the tuned version that they made for the U.S. market and fitting it with the auto gearbox. The Z8 isn't really spectacular. It is good, but it doesn't excell at anything.
Alpina is to BMW what Brabus is to Mercedes. The best aftermarket tuning company after the internal division. "M" or Motorsport is the BMW version of AMG as it is integrated into the BMW AG firm.

Regards, CGuns

saluki9
03-16-2005, 16:16
Brabus is to Mercedes


Brabus is nice, but I'd rather have it done by Renntech (http://www.renntechmercedes.com/)

CGuns
03-16-2005, 16:38
Originally posted by CZ-75A
Well, American makes now have fewer quality issues than Euro makes, but a Z-28 would hardly be my choice of a sporting American make. That honor would go to Corvette.

He obviously doesn't need my approval, but he should be well aware that he owns a toy that has a track-record for poor reliability and one should view it like owning a British sports car. If it's his weekend car, then that's fine. And I'm certainly not hindering his enjoyment of his car, as that comes from putting it through its paces, rather than writing about it on the internet.

Were I the one shelling out the money for an amusement car, I'd have to pick an Infiniti G35 6-spd coupe (or Corvette). I might have said Lexus SC, but that car is only for the blind (who can't see the "styling").

Ever realize how simple American cars are compared to Euro cars?
Rule of thumb, if it can break, it will break.
There is about 10 times more "stuff" in a good Euro car than a top quality American car. That means, more stuff to break! Simple concept. That is the price you pay for technology.
You are comparing a pencil and a post it note to an IBM computer. Sure, the IBM is more prone to breaking and not functioning than a pencil and a post it note, it is prone to virus/online attacks, small parts, drops and falls, etc...all contribute to this.
But, in today's world, who wants a pencil and a post it note when they can have an IBM?
I've owned and I do own American cars. The only American car I have stuck with is the Hummer H1. It is 90% American Made. That means 90% of the components used to assemble and build the car are made in the U.S., not outside the U.S. from 1996-1998, I had a Dodge Viper RT/10 and in 2000, I got a new Vette with a convertible top. The Viper was sold because it was a POS. No door handles, no windows, plastic sliding side curtains instead/ It wasn't controllable. I burned my calf everytime I got in because the exhaust was routed through the sides of the car. A/C was installed but didn't function well and it wasn't a serious car. Steering turned to shi* at anything past 100 miles per hour. Unpredictable, it also felt very nervous. At the time, there really weren't any aftermarket upgrades for the car, either.
The Vette was standard GM. Lots of plastic and cheap leather. It is decent and very fast for the $ and a good value, but give me a German any day over it! Both were never classy, or refined. I had the Vette for less than 1 year. Both are designed to go in a straight line and nothing more.
I will sheepishly admit to breaking the law on public roads about 2 months after I acquired the R230. It was about 3:00 AM on a Monday morning and I was driving on a deserted stretch of highway. I hadn't seen another set of headlights for a while and the road was multi-laned with plenty of space. The moon was out and it cast its shadow across the open road, bathing the highway in plenty of light. Never-the-less, I flicked the high beams to the "on" position. It was a cool evening, the engine was running superbly, enjoying the cool, outside air. So, I decided to do it German style. I really, really don't advocate doing this at all, it was foolish, so please don't do this. The roads really were empty, it was 3:00 AM on a Monday morning.
I was cruising along at about 65 mph. I moved both my hands into the "spirited driving position", which calls for gripping the steering wheel evenly on both sides at the 10 and 2 o'clock position, specific to the R230. After planting my hands firmly, I took my right foot and stabbed the pedal. In a split second, 65 mph turned to 120 mph. My thumbs moved down a couple of degrees in order to reach the buttons embedded in the French stitched, leather and burled walnut steering wheel. I qued up "Cursum Perficio" and Enya's haunting vocals suddenly immersed the cabin. I ran for about 10-15 miles between 120 and 135 mph. Windows up, listening to Enya performing "Cursum Perficio" center stage, in an air conditioned interior, temperature set precisely to 74 degrees.
It was easy as batting an eye. In a mortal car, it would feel as if you were driving 60 miles per hour. This is what it is all about. No fatigue, no hair on my back standing on end, total control and comfort. That is Mercedes-Benz. That is German engineering.

CGuns
03-16-2005, 16:41
Originally posted by saluki9
Brabus is nice, but I'd rather have it done by Renntech (http://www.renntechmercedes.com/)


That is really sad. Hartmut left AMG and moved to the States. All Renntech is, is AMG parts re-badged. He won't tell you this nor do most people realize it.
Brabus actually makes stuff.
Renntech buys from all of AMG's suppliers and most of it is identical, though they do change the designs of some standard parts.
It really isn't as innovative as you think and there are better parts that can be had...also at a savings over Renntech's pricing which is a little exorbitant for what it is. Is it good quality? No question. It is AMG. It is a little known fact that about 75% of Mercedes-Benz corporate executives have cars modified by Brabus.

Regards, CGuns

CGuns
03-16-2005, 16:54
Last lesson is in the pronunciation of AMG.

Sure, you can say "AMG", but, you should know the German pronunciation. I always use the German pronunciation.
A = Ahh
M = EM
G = Gee

So, in German, AMG = AHH EMM GEE

It also sounds salty, like using the chassis/body code for your car.

CGuns

P.S. Sorry for any typing and spelling errors. Because of length, I speed typed everything and didn't proof read.

CGuns
03-16-2005, 17:03
Originally posted by d0truji
Very good information CGuns. I didn't now all of that about AMG. This is the first "real" car I've owned and was impressed with it's features, including the slushbox tranny.
There are many features and subtleties on this car that I could never expect to find on a Corvette or any other domestic.

I wanted something a little different that was fun to drive. This car will be under warranty for at least as long a I own it. I don't think too much about the reliability stuff. It breaks, I take it in, they fix it, no problem. Like I stated in my other post about this car; it's a fourth vehicle and I just want to have some fun in it.

This thread has got me more interested in the whole Euro car aficionado thingy. I feel the pull, it's all down hill from here.

CGuns,
Thanks again for all your input, you have helped me to look at thing in a different light.

You are going to get all of what you want. Class, elegance, spirited driver, unique-ness, etc....It will be very rewarding for you. Congratulations and welcome to this special owner's group. Not many people will ever experience something as special as this.
In the words of Frank Barrett, "A used Mercedes is better than a new anything else"...it is very true though I am inclined to toss "Mercedes" and add in Audi and BMW as they too, are both excellent. Good work. After experiencing the bug some more, namely after engine break-in, you will be bitten and forever changed, you perceptions forever altered.

Regards, CGuns

fnfalman
03-16-2005, 17:23
Mercedes had finally done away with recirculating ball steering. At least on the SLK350, anyway. I haven't really followed the Merc products that closely.

I do take exceptions to calling the Corvette a straight line car. Corvette is anything but a straight line car. It may not be much with the quality department but it's a hell of a go-faster vehicle. And that's all you buy the 'Vette for, unless you're a fifty-something, fat, balding American dude who wants to look "in".

CGuns
03-16-2005, 17:27
I think that is the majority of the driver demographic. I am glad I ditched it. It is a great value for the $ and provides a lot of performance for the $, but not my cup of tea.

WDavis
03-18-2005, 22:02
Originally posted by d0truji
I will most likely sell this car when a MB puts out a newer version or I can afford this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/d0truji/front.jpg
It's only $475,000. I should be able to get it in about 900 years!
Time to upgrade.
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=101954