Buying beretta to teach girlfriend ?

[Glock Influence]

Hey I have been looking at .22 berettas for a while yet I'm not sure on the quality of the little .22s They look bad but are they a good gun and reliable over all ? I was thinking of the Beretta 21 Bobcat. Something cheap and something that will work for a long time. I also was thinking about the High standard Victor, what do you all think ?

thanks

[Perry F.]

Originally posted by Glock Influence
Hey I have been looking at .22 berettas for a while yet I'm not sure on the quality of the little .22s They look bad but are they a good gun and reliable over all ? I was thinking of the Beretta 21 Bobcat. Something cheap and something that will work for a long time. I also was thinking about the High standard Victor, what do you all think ?

thanks

HAd the Beretta Tomcat .32, I liked the gun seemed reliable.

[Ryder102]

If you want a very nice target/plinker gun, you might want to check out a Ruger 22/44 (and other variants thereof). They are very fun and very accurate to use.

[Glock Influence]

Originally posted by Ryder102
If you want a very nice target/plinker gun, you might want to check out a Ruger 22/44 (and other variants thereof). They are very fun and very accurate to use.

I forgot all about this thread lol ... Ya, actually I bought a Ruger MKIII 5.5 BULL. I may still buy a berreta sometime but not anytime soon. I'll buy the 96 Brigadier .40 before I buy a .22 from them... which should be comming up in a month or so. I wish I could buy more handguns withing the 30 day wait period. Its so dumb !!

[Justin1584]

Just teach her off a 92, that's what I did/do/etc. They don't kick hard, they're high capacity (less reloading), they're extremely accurate and can second as a combat pistol if you want.

[Glock Influence]

Originally posted by Justin1584
Just teach her off a 92, that's what I did/do/etc. They don't kick hard, they're high capacity (less reloading), they're extremely accurate and can second as a combat pistol if you want.


does it have less recoil than a GLOCK 17 ? My GLOCK aint got the most recoil but I would still like for her to learn with something less.

[Justin1584]

Originally posted by Glock Influence
does it have less recoil than a GLOCK 17 ? My GLOCK aint got the most recoil but I would still like for her to learn with something less.

The Glock 17 is much lighter when loaded so yes, the Beretta will render less felt recoil. However the Glock 17 has a very low bore axis (meaning the barrel is lower, closer to the grip) which could give it a less 'snappy' feel to some.

I don't think it's too much really, I think the 9mm is juuuuust right. To be honest though, my Beretta has less felt recoil than my father's Colt Mustang .380 ACP pocket pistol.

http://www.fraggedhosting.com/imagehosting/public/geowithberetta.JPG

She's 4'11" and took on a Colt Python .357 Magnum that day, get the Beretta 92 and don't look back.

[Glock Influence]

hmm looks like the 92 Brigadier it is then. It will only get it if I can't find a decent Colt Defender before. But this model Berreta was always on my list of hand guns to buy. I think it was #5 It may be my 3rd if all goes bad with the Colt.

thanks

[Justin1584]

No prob, you'll love it.

[PlasticGuy]

I like Beretta's, but they have a couple of downsides. The first is a huge grip, that many people with small hands (women, children, and carnies) can't hold as comfortably as many other pistols. The second is that the double action trigger pull is long and heavy. Combined with the huge grip, this gives shooters with smaller and weaker hands some problems. I love the Berettas, but as an instructor I can say that it's not the best gun for small handed people.

A Vertec with a short trigger and a lightened trigger pull would be better. Have you looked at an Elite Ia? It has a smaller grip, lighter trigger, and Brigadier slide. I think they're a huge improvement over the old 92 series pistols, and it will probably only cost an additional $100 or so.

[Justin1584]

Originally posted by PlasticGuy
I like Beretta's, but they have a couple of downsides. The first is a huge grip, that many people with small hands (women, children, and carnies) can't hold as comfortably as many other pistols. The second is that the double action trigger pull is long and heavy. Combined with the huge grip, this gives shooters with smaller and weaker hands some problems. I love the Berettas, but as an instructor I can say that it's not the best gun for small handed people.

A Vertec with a short trigger and a lightened trigger pull would be better. Have you looked at an Elite Ia? It has a smaller grip, lighter trigger, and Brigadier slide. I think they're a huge improvement over the old 92 series pistols, and it will probably only cost an additional $100 or so.

True about the hogue grips, I never understood the wide Beretta grip gripe though. Plastic grip panels or other types could probably help a lot. The girls I've taught off the Beretta (probably about seven) generally fire in single-action mode. If this gun is intended for the lady's use only then a slimmer grip might be in order.

Definitely look into the Vertec regardless.

[Ryder102]

Originally posted by PlasticGuy
I like Beretta's, but they have a couple of downsides. The first is a huge grip, that many people with small hands (women, children, and carnies) can't hold as comfortably as many other pistols. The second is that the double action trigger pull is long and heavy. Combined with the huge grip, this gives shooters with smaller and weaker hands some problems. I love the Berettas, but as an instructor I can say that it's not the best gun for small handed people.

A Vertec with a short trigger and a lightened trigger pull would be better. Have you looked at an Elite Ia? It has a smaller grip, lighter trigger, and Brigadier slide. I think they're a huge improvement over the old 92 series pistols, and it will probably only cost an additional $100 or so.

Some normal guys have small hands too, you know! Not just us carnies!;e

I have a 92 Vertec and have installed a D spring to lighten the DA trigger pull (what can I say...I'm spoiled by the Glocks). It is a great gun for everyone to shoot, including girlfriends, circus freaks and talented monkeys.

[RF7126]

I'll be yet another to agree with what they've said about the grip of the 92. It is definitely too large to be comfortable for people with small hands. I started my fiance on the 92 and she did alright but didn't enjoy it nearly as much as I did. I got her a Glock 19 and now she's the one asking to go to the range, in addition to carrying it.

[Glock Influence]

Originally posted by Justin1584
True about the hogue grips, I never understood the wide Beretta grip gripe though. Plastic grip panels or other types could probably help a lot.

Definitely look into the Vertec regardless.

Is there a web site where I can find all of these parts ?

thanks

[RF7126]

You can usually find the grips at good prices on www.gunbroker.com (http://www.gunbroker.com).

[Ryder102]

Originally posted by Glock Influence
Is there a web site where I can find all of these parts ?

thanks

If you're talking about the parts for the Beretta's, you can find a lot of stuff at LTT, including the D spring I mentioned before.

http://www.langdontactical.com/beretta.shtml

[Radagast]

Earnest is out of the Beretta game as of last week. He now works for S&W.

Brignoli arms is the place for the funky parts http://www.brignoliarmi.com/

Tom Novak has a good reputation for his work on Berettas.

http://www.handgunneroutlet.net/

Try www.berettaforum.net for a wealth of information.

Ken

[Werewolf01]

Originally posted by Justin1584
Just teach her off a 92, that's what I did/do/etc. They don't kick hard, they're high capacity (less reloading), they're extremely accurate and can second as a combat pistol if you want.

x2 Gave my wife a 92 (BTW she has samll hands) and she loves it! ^c

[Glock Influence]

thanks so much guys

[PlasticGuy]

Originally posted by Justin1584
...I never understood the wide Beretta grip gripe though.... The girls I've taught off the Beretta (probably about seven) generally fire in single-action mode...
You just answered your own question. If the pistol is to be used properly, the first shot would be double action. If the shooter can't hit anything in double action because they can't reach the trigger easily, then the gun can't be used properly by that shooter.

I have a Vertec, and it gives me a little more control, and a lot more room for error if I'm not gripping it 100% properly. I have a standard length metal trigger in it, which is about right for me. I have (but have not installed) a short trigger. That would be a wonderful addition for someone with small hands.

The standard 92fs, even with the thinnest grips on the market, is still a handfull for a lot of people. The Vertec offers all of the advantages of the old version, with the benefit of a better grip.

And I'm glad someone got my "carnie" joke. It's not meant as an insult. I include myself in that category -- especially when it comes to shooting the really large DA autos (CZ, Beretta, USP 45, Glock 21, etc.)

[Justin1584]

Originally posted by PlasticGuy
You just answered your own question. If the pistol is to be used properly, the first shot would be double action. If the shooter can't hit anything in double action because they can't reach the trigger easily, then the gun can't be used properly by that shooter.

I have a Vertec, and it gives me a little more control, and a lot more room for error if I'm not gripping it 100% properly. I have a standard length metal trigger in it, which is about right for me. I have (but have not installed) a short trigger. That would be a wonderful addition for someone with small hands.

The standard 92fs, even with the thinnest grips on the market, is still a handfull for a lot of people. The Vertec offers all of the advantages of the old version, with the benefit of a better grip.

And I'm glad someone got my "carnie" joke. It's not meant as an insult. I include myself in that category -- especially when it comes to shooting the really large DA autos (CZ, Beretta, USP 45, Glock 21, etc.)

The point is the single-action option is available and the primary mode of fire in a DA/SA pistol so the grip usually isn't even remotely a problem.

[PlasticGuy]

Originally posted by Justin1584
The point is the single-action option is available and the primary mode of fire in a DA/SA pistol so the grip usually isn't even remotely a problem.
Maybe we're talking about two different things. I see combat handguns as things that may be used to save your life, hence the name "combat handguns". You're talking about a plinker at the range that you can load, cock, align the sights despite a poor fit, and try to hit a stationary target. Anything is possible when you have unlimited time at the range. A small handed person can use a Desert Eagle at the range. Combat shooting with a combat auto is quite another thing. For that, you need a pistol that fits.

If you just want a plinker for range use, and you don't care that she can't shoot it in double action or properly align the pistol for recoil control, then I think you're missing the point but there's nothing to argue about. If you want her to have a gun that fits her, so she will be able to use it properly and control recoil well, you need to get a gun that fits her. As much as I like the 92's, they don't fit people with small hands very well. The Vertec is a better option for the majority of people.

[Justin1584]

Originally posted by PlasticGuy
Maybe we're talking about two different things. I see combat handguns as things that may be used to save your life, hence the name "combat handguns". You're talking about a plinker at the range that you can load, cock, align the sights despite a poor fit, and try to hit a stationary target. Anything is possible when you have unlimited time at the range. A small handed person can use a Desert Eagle at the range. Combat shooting with a combat auto is quite another thing. For that, you need a pistol that fits.

If you just want a plinker for range use, and you don't care that she can't shoot it in double action or properly align the pistol for recoil control, then I think you're missing the point but there's nothing to argue about. If you want her to have a gun that fits her, so she will be able to use it properly and control recoil well, you need to get a gun that fits her. As much as I like the 92's, they don't fit people with small hands very well. The Vertec is a better option for the majority of people.

No, it sounds to me like the guy wants to buy a gun his girlfriend can learn off of. I fail to see how the Beretta hinders that, I just think you over exaggerate the grip size because it's not all that much. Almost the ladies I took to the range were Asian (not the biggest or burliest race), petite themselves, and there weren't any problems with the Beretta.

[Glock Influence]

Originally posted by Justin1584
No, it sounds to me like the guy wants to buy a gun his girlfriend can learn off of.

I will buy this model gun for sure at some point in the near future. Like I said; it was in my top 5 first guns to buy.

thanks

[bmjones]

Originally posted by Justin1584
Just teach her off a 92, that's what I did/do/etc. They don't kick hard, they're high capacity (less reloading), they're extremely accurate and can second as a combat pistol if you want.

The beretta is uncomfortably heavy for some women to shoot. I bought mine to use as a trainer with my sisters, mother, and girlfriend. It's too heavy for any of them to shoot comfortably once it's loaded, but i grew to love it so it worked out in the end i suppose.

[PlasticGuy]

Originally posted by bmjones
...I bought mine to use as a trainer with my sisters, mother, and girlfriend. It's too heavy for any of them to shoot comfortably once it's loaded...
Of course you're right. The grip is too big, the trigger reach is too long, and the trigger is too heavy in double action for most women to shoot well. I hadn't mentioned the weight, but you're right about that too. I think that the original poster understands what we are talking about, and I don't think Justin1584 ever will.

[akbound]

As to your original question, yes the Beretta Bobcats are reliable little guns. We bought one so we could practice with a gun similar to our Tomcat but for considerably less money. When fed decent ammuntion the little Bobcat has been wonderfully reliable.

Dave

[Justin1584]

Originally posted by PlasticGuy
Of course you're right. The grip is too big, the trigger reach is too long, and the trigger is too heavy in double action for most women to shoot well. I hadn't mentioned the weight, but you're right about that too. I think that the original poster understands what we are talking about, and I don't think Justin1584 ever will.

Because it's ridiculous what you're talking about. You're acting like they're wrapping their hand around a watermelon, it's a 9mm pistol with a staggered mag. The ladies I took were mostly Asian, teenagers, they don't exactly have the biggest mits and they were dead-accurate with the 92.

PlasticGuy, your name says it all, you just want to throw a Glock at the guy and have somebody else part of your fanclub. But the truth is the Beretta 92 doesn't have this horribly huge grip of legend you keep talking about. That and there's also the Vertec if the man wants to take it down a notch for his lady.

The truth is the Beretta is one of the best ways to go. And if you've got a lady that can't pick up a two pound gun because it's too heavy then you've got a lot more to worry about than the pistol you select.

Grow up guys and stop trash-talking a gun just because you don't like it. Glock Influence already bought a gun to start his lady off on and he says he wants to buy a Beretta in the future, go start a petition or something, just stop flaming the thread.

[Glock Influence]

Nothing anyone can say will stop me from buying a beretta. It will happen one day but like I said before it will happen after I buy a few other guns. If I knew I could get an FFL I would buy it along side with many other guns. I just have been down on even trying from what i'm told. But I guess it wouldnt hurt to try.

[PlasticGuy]

Originally posted by Justin1584
PlasticGuy, your name says it all, you just want to throw a Glock at the guy and have somebody else part of your fanclub. But the truth is the Beretta 92 doesn't have this horribly huge grip of legend...
Oddly enough, I own a Beretta 92fs Vertec, and don't currently own any Glocks. My absolute favorite handguns are my custom 1911's, although I do like shooting my S&W revolvers from time to time. I have others that I shoot from time to time, but no Glocks at the moment. So nice try, but you know what they say about assumptions...

Secondly, you said yourself that pulling the trigger in double action wasn't something that you ever had the women that you "train" do. They can only use half of the gun's capabilities in terms of trigger pull, and can't easily reach the mag release, slide release, or safety without seriously adjusting their grip on the gun. That's not a good situation for learning how to PROPERLY operate a handgun, and to argue otherwise is just silly. Marksmanship is great, but it's only one part of shooting. Also, from what you say about gun weight not being an issue, I'm guessing that you've never had a woman with carpal tunnel or arthritis in those wonderfully instructed classes that you teach. If you had, you would understand why weight can be a factor with a gun that weighs around 40 ounces when loaded.

The originator of the thread said that he wants to buy a Beretta in the future. Good. I like mine. In fact, I've been carrying it to work and using it as my demonstration sidearm in my classes for the last 18 months. I just don't want him to think that it's the ideal gun for training a woman with average sized hands, because there will be things that should be done when properly shooting the gun that she won't be able to efficiently do. Call it a flame if you want, but that's just the facts.

[Justin1584]

Originally posted by PlasticGuy
Oddly enough, I own a Beretta 92fs Vertec, and don't currently own any Glocks. My absolute favorite handguns are my custom 1911's, although I do like shooting my S&W revolvers from time to time. I have others that I shoot from time to time, but no Glocks at the moment. So nice try, but you know what they say about assumptions...

Secondly, you said yourself that pulling the trigger in double action wasn't something that you ever had the women that you "train" do. They can only use half of the gun's capabilities in terms of trigger pull, and can't easily reach the mag release, slide release, or safety without seriously adjusting their grip on the gun. That's not a good situation for learning how to PROPERLY operate a handgun, and to argue otherwise is just silly. Marksmanship is great, but it's only one part of shooting. Also, from what you say about gun weight not being an issue, I'm guessing that you've never had a woman with carpal tunnel or arthritis in those wonderfully instructed classes that you teach. If you had, you would understand why weight can be a factor with a gun that weighs around 40 ounces when loaded.

The originator of the thread said that he wants to buy a Beretta in the future. Good. I like mine. In fact, I've been carrying it to work and using it as my demonstration sidearm in my classes for the last 18 months. I just don't want him to think that it's the ideal gun for training a woman with average sized hands, because there will be things that should be done when properly shooting the gun that she won't be able to efficiently do. Call it a flame if you want, but that's just the facts.

Are you on drugs?

Okay let me break this down for you, since you seem to be fixated on flaming here I’ll just give you the straight out facts:

1) Yes, they have fired in double-action mode. However if you’ve ever fired a DA/SA pistol you would know that after the double-action shot every shot thereafter is in single-action mode unless the pistol is decocked.
2) I am not an official NRA instructor, rather I am a responsible friend, boyfriend, and role model to some of the people (both male and female) I take to the shooting range. I take them in order to educate them about gun safety, reality vs. Hollywood, and bring a whole new perspective on the capabilities and truths about firearms. It’s what any respectable shooter would do.
3) Specifically, none of the ladies I have taken shooting have had carpel tunnel syndrome, Down’s Syndrome, ADD or whatever you’d like to specify. Yes, they were all healthy, had ten fingers, ten toes, two eyes, arms, legs, you know they were humans. They tend to be under the age of 60. Although my 83-year-old grandmother didn’t seem to have any problem with the Beretta 92, her first time firing a handgun. Just a thought.
4) I don’t care what guns you own, sticking feathers up your butt doesn’t make you a chicken any more than owning a Beretta makes you the grip judgment authority.
5) The young men and women I took shooting were able to reach the magazine release.
6) They were also able to reach the slide release without hindrance.
7) Guns, like much other physical matter in this universe, are affected by gravity and have weight. Yes, even polymer framed pistols, they recoil too by the way.
8) The ‘originator of the thread’ probably wont ever believe, any more than anybody else beyond the understanding of a chimp, that teaching anybody off a Beretta 92 is a disservice to them and will be the end of the world.
9) Grow up.
10) Please.

[Glock Influence]

Originally posted by Justin1584
The ‘originator of the thread’ probably wont ever believe, any more than anybody else beyond the understanding of a chimp, that teaching anybody off a Beretta 92 is a disservice to them and will be the end of the world.



It is, and I will never own an Italian piece of junk Beretta.

J/K ^c

I have been doing a lot of research on many different guns. And since I have a limited amount of handguns I can buy at one time it will be a few months till I own a Beretta. But like I said before; "it will happen" Just after I buy my most desired guns first.

A month at a time ;6

[PlasticGuy]

Originally posted by Justin1584
9) Grow up.
If you're trying to entertain me, it's working extremely well. I actually laughed out loud while reading your last post. A 19 year old guy in California, who can't even legally buy a handgun, is going to educate us all on the way to properly train someone to use a combat sidearm. On the flip-side, a guy who has taught four handgun classes this week alone needs to "grow up" because he has the audacity to tell you that your favorite handgun is less than ideal for training women. I'm sure that makes sense to someone...

I've said what I have to say. If you don't agree in your infinite "wisdom", so be it.

[Justin1584]

Originally posted by PlasticGuy
If you're trying to entertain me, it's working extremely well. I actually laughed out loud while reading your last post. A 19 year old guy in California, who can't even legally buy a handgun, is going to educate us all on the way to properly train someone to use a combat sidearm. On the flip-side, a guy who has taught four handgun classes this week alone needs to "grow up" because he has the audacity to tell you that your favorite handgun is less than ideal for training women. I'm sure that makes sense to someone...

I've said what I have to say. If you don't agree in your infinite "wisdom", so be it.

And you're arguing with the '19-year-old California guy,' and throwing his age and location in his face like a playground big shot. Sorry, I don't let my age or location limit my potential, or define my social status. If you want a medal I'm sure some form will present it to you, but I just offered advice to this guy (that nobody else seems to have a problem with) and you're acting like I shot your dog. Hence my last statement: Grow up.

Sorry this thread took a turn for the worst between PG and I, Glock Influence. Yeah I know how it goes, it's always a bummer to have to put off guns for a few months to get funds together and justified. I've always wanted a Sig P229 in 9mm but I've had a hard time getting around to buying one, I bought a rifle...then a shotgun...then my Smith & Wesson 629...

Oh well.

Anyway PlasticGuy if you really want to shoot your mouth off you can feel free to stop spamming up this thread and just PM me. After all, if you're such a mature, understanding and thoughtful adult you shouldn't have any trouble ignoring the punk kid.

[Glock Influence]

Originally posted by Justin1584
Glock Influence. Yeah I know how it goes, it's always a bummer to have to put off guns for a few months to get funds together and justified.


Well its not that I have money problems :cool: Its because in the state of komifornia they only allow you 1 handgun every 30 days... complete bummer. Otherwise as of right now I would have the majority of all the guns I really want.

[Justin1584]

Originally posted by Glock Influence
Well its not that I have money problems :cool: Its because in the state of komifornia they only allow you 1 handgun every 30 days... complete bummer. Otherwise as of right now I would have the majority of all the guns I really want.

That a fact? What region are you in? I'm in the Los Angeles County. Oh by the way, you should probably research this a little before acting, but if you buy more than one handgun in a month you just get looked over by the FBI. It's not illegal. That and if you buy from two different gunshops it's not reported, if I recall correctly.

[Glock Influence]

Originally posted by Justin1584
That a fact? What region are you in? I'm in the Los Angeles County. Oh by the way, you should probably research this a little before acting, but if you buy more than one handgun in a month you just get looked over by the FBI. It's not illegal. That and if you buy from two different gunshops it's not reported, if I recall correctly.

Well I live in the SF bay area and pretty much have one gun shop about a mile or two away. The next one aint for many many miles. I have done plenty of research and gun shops telling me what I can and cant do. See I dont own the shops... I can tell them whatever I want but there not going to break the rules.