Its what you teach after you know everything... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MARTIN FISHER
04-21-2005, 11:25
On another thread, the old sport vs. street thing came up. As I read the ads of various styles/instructors who teach anti-grappling or pure killing martial arts. I was curious why all of these intructors bother to list their past experiances in traditional martial arts.

Black belt in this, survived thousands of real combat fights, blah blah blah.

BUT THEN, after all this, they looked back and said, wow, I have spent hundreds of hours with the best teachers, traveled to the darkest reagions of Asia, climbed the highest mountains to meditate and slain men with my bare hands all over the world, but I did not know what I was doing until NOW.

And, I have distilled all this into my new, easy system you can learn in three weeks. Yep, you don't have to do all the things I did to learn to fight. You don't have to spend hours in the gym, or on the cement/wooden floor with nails sticking out of it, run in the jungle, eat leeches to survive like I did, you just gotta buy these tapes or attend this seminar. I have done the work for you.

Here are some testimonials of super men my system has created. Some of them are actually police officers and active MILITARY! Of course none of them has been able to counter my style.

I have even been to (fill in the blank) and taught there!

The point of all this is: Why is it only AFTER these pros/gurus have done all these things do they finally see the light of real combat? What kept them alive all those years as a spy, merc, SEAL if it was not what they had been taught or doing already? Why the new art, new name, new style?

gr81disp
04-21-2005, 15:00
Because, more than likely, these people never were SEALs, spys, and the only teaching they did at any military school was English 101. They only got a couple of belts in their system before they decided they would just make up their new system and make some money off of it. These are what we know as bullshido artists. They run McDojos and ruin any and all martial arts they portray themselves as.

BlackBelt
04-21-2005, 16:09
Let me rant a little here. I actually try to stay on top of the 'newest' cutting edge techniques for gun and knife defense, the latest grappling craze, and the latest info on pretty much any combatitive style of fighting. I spend a LOT of time (and cash)just traveling across the U.S. to go to these seminars put on by 'experts'.
2 weekends ago, I traveled many hundreds of miles and spent the weekend with one of the latest self-proclaimed experts in combatitive fighting. He was a former military spec-ops guy, and he had his 'new' method of empty hand vs. weapon fighting system.
I continually shot him, time and time again with an AirSoft pistol as he tried to perform his empty-hand technique. Then I stabbed him with the rubber knife over and over again, as he demonstrated his 'technique'. He told me I was attacking him wrong.
You guys know how laughable a statement that is, right?
I was NOT trying to embarass him in front of the class, but I just attacked him like a street thug would do. After the third time of me volunteering being his uke, he wouldn't call on me again.
I won't even go into his choke defense...but apparently he had never had anyone shake the living crap out of him while they were choking him. His defense worked only if the attacker was standing there, choking him with both arms completely outstretched, and not moving forward. Hey, my granny could defend against that.
Guys that teach absolutely nothing that is even close to reality make me wonder if they were a cook, a REMF, or worked latrine duty throughout their tour. Or perhaps they had a 'torn up tummy' during that phase of training. Whatever they did, they should not try to capitalize on their 'Former Spec-Ops' soldier status. Save that for the REAL operators.
Rant off.

Deputydave
04-21-2005, 17:50
Originally posted by BlackBelt
Let me rant a little here. I actually try to stay on top of the 'newest' cutting edge techniques for gun and knife defense, the latest grappling craze, and the latest info on pretty much any combatitive style of fighting. I spend a LOT of time (and cash)just traveling across the U.S. to go to these seminars put on by 'experts'.
2 weekends ago, I traveled many hundreds of miles and spent the weekend with one of the latest self-proclaimed experts in combatitive fighting. He was a former military spec-ops guy, and he had his 'new' method of empty hand vs. weapon fighting system.
I continually shot him, time and time again with an AirSoft pistol as he tried to perform his empty-hand technique. Then I stabbed him with the rubber knife over and over again, as he demonstrated his 'technique'. He told me I was attacking him wrong.
You guys know how laughable a statement that is, right?
I was NOT trying to embarass him in front of the class, but I just attacked him like a street thug would do. After the third time of me volunteering being his uke, he wouldn't call on me again.
I won't even go into his choke defense...but apparently he had never had anyone shake the living crap out of him while they were choking him. His defense worked only if the attacker was standing there, choking him with both arms completely outstretched, and not moving forward. Hey, my granny could defend against that.
Guys that teach absolutely nothing that is even close to reality make me wonder if they were a cook, a REMF, or worked latrine duty throughout their tour. Or perhaps they had a 'torn up tummy' during that phase of training. Whatever they did, they should not try to capitalize on their 'Former Spec-Ops' soldier status. Save that for the REAL operators.
Rant off.

Take a look at BB magazine, everyone has either taught the Navy SEALs [or was one] or they're a 10th Dan ;Q Strictly 'buyer beware'.

ARH
04-21-2005, 23:12
I think the original post points out an anomaly in the learning process.

Any really good fighter didn't become a really good fighter because they knew hundreds of techniques, but by synthesising their arsenal down to a handful of core tactics they can pull off really well. There are primarily two reasons why they can do these really well:

1. what they use has been customised to them specifically through trial and error, and
2. the trial and error process was time spent becoming faster, more coordinated etc etc etc.

Through whatever lapse in judgement they then have, they think by simply teching those synthesised down tactics to someone else they can achieve the same end result, if not better because they have avoided the trial and error process.

The reality is for each person to reach their own maximum potential, and not be permanantly trapped in the shadow of someone else, that trial and error can't be avoided, but is the very source of where their own ability will come from.

At the end of it all, you can't become any good by trying to immitate a style of fighting customised for someone else.

Deputydave
04-22-2005, 21:40
Now that was a well thought out post! All I can say is 'bingo' :)