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Godfather
04-28-2005, 18:03
My roomate and myself have reciently started working out fairly hard again. we are doing a circut workout that has us lifting about 85% and running on the treadmill between sets. I am about to include a running only day, as well as add a light light workout day. That is 3 normal days, one light day, and a hard running day. I know this is kinda weird, but that's why I came here.

We are both trying to gain strength and endurance while staying lean (we don't want to gain alot of weight to get strong, toned). He and I have both started taking protien mixes. He is taking the GNC MegaWhey, and I am taking Nitro-Tech. Neither of us are taking the full recomended ammout yet, as our bodies (read: bellies ;f ) are not taking well to it in large doses yet.

I am also taking GNC MegaMen vitamins (2 pills once a day), and GNC Amino 1000 (3 pills once a day).

First question...do you have any suggestions based on the above?

Second question...we are thinking about adding Creatien to the above supliments. My roomate is realy itching to try it, but has been told to hold off for a while. How long should we wait if we decide to use it. Also, what are your opinions on Cell-tech, and creatien in general? I used it about 5 years ago when I was playing college basketball, but things have changed.

Third question...have I bored all of you to sleep yet?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Chevytuff19
04-28-2005, 20:11
What I have done over the past 4 months has lost me about 1-1/2" off my waist and increased my bench by 50 pounds, curls by 15, etc....

Anyway, it is nothing special. I just take my vitamins and protein shakes like you guys do. I also eat A LOT of protein after a hard workout....usually a lean hamburger, a filet of steak, a turkey sandwich, and then my whey protein mixed with 2% milk. Then I usually eat a peanut butter sandwich and a grilled cheese before bed. I know it sounds weird, but it has seemed to work for me. Keep in mind this is just on Mon., Wed., and Fri. The other days I eat a little more sensible. I would lose a lot more weight but I enjoy the beer a little too much......:)

I also believe in taking green tea supplement pills twice a day.

Wes

Godfather
04-28-2005, 22:21
I would lose a lot more weight but I enjoy the beer a little too much
You and me both! 3 cookouts last weekend almost killed all my hard work.

testosterone
04-29-2005, 07:50
dont go crazy with cardio..20 minutes a day should do fine. do your cardio first thing in the morning.
as for supplents, ive never been fond of muscle-tech. their protein always hurt my stomach. the cel-tech is creatine with a fructose transport system. you can get the same results using regular creatine (I recomment plain old EAS Phosphagen) mixed in grape juice.
When people ask me for my suggestion on protein poweders I always recomment MuscleMilk.....its by far the most tastey protein out there and ive tried just about every brand. It does not upset my stomace at all (and I get an upset stomach very easily)....its pricey but its worth it. did i mention it tastes great.
also consider a thermogenic to help speed up fat loss. I recomment Redline by VPX....use it only as its directed.

Godfather
04-29-2005, 08:41
Thanks for the tips. I guess I may need to switch from Nitro-tech as it seems to be doing the same thing to me that it did to you.

We really aren't going to crazy with the cardio yet. We just use the treadmill to keep the heart rate up while we rotate (his dad is also working out with us so that's 3 people in rotation).

What do you think about waiting to get on creatine? everyone keeps saying use protiein to get lean first.

testosterone
04-29-2005, 16:13
This is the way I like to put it. Say you are building a hot motor for your car...you obviously need the block first. you wouldnt go out and buy a supercharger and nitrous and cams and headers and whatnot before you had the block right?
So...protein is the engine block...protein is what builds the muscle (there are alot of steps involved but essentially no protien, no gains)....then if you if you can afford to buy some more goodies you get glutaimne and some amino acids and creatine. Creatine is my least favorite. It gives some gains but its all water and you piss it all away. Its more of a beach type of supplement. when you are low in bodyfat your creatine input will help 'infuse' water into your muscle cells, creating a bigger muscle 'image'....it does a bit for strength but its not all its hyped out to be. Id rather concentrate my money on quality protein and glutaimine and vitamins and aminos

Godfather
04-30-2005, 00:21
Good post, thank you.

Godfather
05-02-2005, 16:54
I went to GNC yesterday and mentioned that Nitro-Tech was messing with my stomach, and she told me to bring back what was left. I actually was lucky enough to still have my recipt so I took it back today and they paid me $2 to trade it for 2 jugs of MuscleMilk. I have taken one serving so far and things are loking good. That stuff tastes great, and is going over very well so far.

Wish me luck

Glock13
05-02-2005, 22:05
You definitely have some good advice here. Protein is the most important. If you have a few extra bucks, I would try creatine. You can get a decent amount of straight creatine for under $15. Try Prolab Nutrition or Optimum. If you want to spend a little more get EAS Phosphagen HP. I feel creatine definitely helped me, especially when I first began lifting. I wasn't taking protein yet, just creatine. My bench was going up between 5-15 pounds per week while I was on it. I still take it off and on. When I feel like I am in a slump in my workouts, I will start taking it. I find it definitely helps on chest and arms days.

GutHook
05-15-2005, 10:09
New guy here, just wanted to add my .02

Once upon a time, I worked out pretty hard. It has been about 3 years, but the supplementation hasn't changed much. I liked the Nitro-Tech. It worked great for me. Creatine is crap, as far as I am concerned. It adds minimal weight, strength, and it goes away shortly after you stop using it. I've recommended what I did to several other people before with great results;

LOTS of protein, but not only in supplementation. YOU MUST eat quality food as well

I reccomend also getting both branch chain amino acids as well as typical amino acid (Optimum 2222)

LOTS of water. 2 gallons + /day

Cardio 3 days per week in the AM

stationary bike for 15 minutes prior to a leg workout
strength training 5 days/ week. Whatever days are good for you

allow a "cheat" day, but maintain your protein intake that day, just add some "junk" food. kept me from geting burnt out in a month. just don't get carried away and choke down 4 big macs, a whole cheesecake, a gallon of ice cream, etc

California Jack
05-15-2005, 13:03
Hey Test,

then if you if you can afford to buy some more goodies you get glutaimne and some amino acids and creatine.

What's the aminos for? I always thought aminos are part of protein? If your getting enough protein, what benefits do they have?

Thanks,
Jack

GutHook
05-15-2005, 17:16
I thought the same thing.
All I know is that when I took them in conjunction with all the rest, I was harder and leaner than ever before. I tried SEVERAL month w/o them and just didn't have the same effect. I don't think all the protein powders offer all the amino acids, but I could be wrong.

testosterone
05-15-2005, 22:06
I used to think that aminos were worthless also. I mean the protein 'turns' into the aminos neccessary for muscle production. Why take both... I read some studies (cant remember them off hand) that showed that aminos deffinetely helped out with muscle gain. I tried it out and I noticed a nice result. The only down side is that you have to take so many of them. I use the Optimum Nutrition 2222 aminos....2 with each mean plus 2 before and 2 after my workout...
Try them out, I think that you will like the results.
I will try to find those studies.


BTW, a GREAT muscle magazine to read that isnt full of bullcrap is Muscular Development...its changed dramatically over the years. They have some great training articles and offer pages and pages of studeis relating to training of all types.

don't tread on me
05-19-2005, 12:21
Save your money, eat a moderate amount of carbs, protein and fat. They are all important, protein is not the most importanant, in fact you would be amazed at how little you really need a day. Have you ever heard of anyone having a protein defiecency??Maybe someone who is annorexic, but if you eat even 4 oz of chicken or beef a day, you will consume a $hitload of amino acids!
Creatine works, but drink plenty of water, it stops working when you stop taking it. Creatine is plentiful in beef!

testosterone
05-19-2005, 18:02
Originally posted by don't tread on me
Save your money, eat a moderate amount of carbs, protein and fat. They are all important, protein is not the most importanant, in fact you would be amazed at how little you really need a day. Have you ever heard of anyone having a protein defiecency??Maybe someone who is annorexic, but if you eat even 4 oz of chicken or beef a day, you will consume a $hitload of amino acids!
Creatine works, but drink plenty of water, it stops working when you stop taking it. Creatine is plentiful in beef!



HUH? If you are trying to build muscle then you NEED an abundant amount of protein. Protien is the MOST important element in building muscle.....a typical chicken breast has aprox 23g of protien. No way is this enough to help build muscle.

don't tread on me
05-19-2005, 20:23
Sorry,saying protein is the most important macronutrient is like saying the heart is more important then the brain and lungs! Amino acids are the building blocks for repairing tissue! In order to build muscle, first you need the proper stimulation (exercise), second you need rest (recovery), third you'll need the proper amount of nutrition(protein, fat and carbs).
Supplement companies want you to think you need massive amounts of protein so you keep buying their products, plus the massive protein theory is bought up by most gym rats,even the RDA's have a built in safety amount that is about double of what we really need! Talk to a nutritional doctor,any doctor of nutrition will tell you you need all three, protein, fat and carbs. And carbs are to power you through a workout. If you don't believe me, eat nothing but protein meals, very low carbs if any, and try working legs by doing some high rep squats !!!!!Good luck!

GutHook
05-19-2005, 20:55
Just an FYI, the RDA has little to nothing to do with buidling muscle bulk/size. You WILL NOT get big and beefy by eating the RDA of protein. You need to eat above and beyone the RDA of protein and supplement with amino acids and various supplements. If you want to look like Joe Blow, yeah, by all means, follow the RDA.

don't tread on me
05-20-2005, 05:21
Building muscle OR building BULK?

Americans are the best at building BULK take a look around! Building muscle is a whole different story!

I wonder how the guys back in the 30's 40's 50's 60's and 70's built soo much muscle without all of todays protein supplements available ??

California Jack
05-20-2005, 06:24
30's 40's and 50's from eating a lot of protein (more than current RDA) and by taking things like liver tabs. 60's and 70' (maybe even the 50's too)by anabolic steroids.

don't tread on me
05-20-2005, 07:41
I only mentioned that the RDA's have a built in factor to more than cover most people, I'm wasn't saying that's all every individual requires!

Info in this link states that strength atheltes need only about .7-.8 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, to which I agree!

California Jack,
Yea steroids have played a big part in the freaks we have seen in the last few decades!!

http://www.karlloren.com/diet/p48.htm

testosterone
05-20-2005, 14:28
you could take all the steroids you wanted and without a high protein diet you wont gain. musclemen of the past built their bodies with protein also, not the convient type we use today but they drank alot of whole milk, ate alot of red meat and chicken, eggs, so on. RDA is great for the average individual but you would be hard pressed to gain enormous amounts of muscle w/o protein....
Ive just seen too many people train properly and use the drugs and not make the gains because they were lacking in nutrition.

don't tread on me
05-20-2005, 15:42
So the old time guys did it without all the supplements, just like I told the poster asking the question does he need protein supplements! Supplements are just that supplements, they are not suppose to take the place of food, it is just expensive insurance and a huge profit to the companies that sell them.

I've seen numerous individuals bulk up on huge amounts of protein during the fall and winter months, only to struggle in the spring to lose the excess flab they packed on from the excess calories of the "you need more protein theory"!!

California Jack
05-20-2005, 20:14
Test is right, a lot of the old timers would drink a gallon of milk a day.

don't tread on me
05-21-2005, 05:22
Well i'm right too, you can still buy milk today!

California Jack
05-21-2005, 07:19
sure, but a gallon of milk per day compared to 2 or 3 scoops of protein power?

don't tread on me
05-21-2005, 13:25
at least you know what your getting with milk!
and it taste better than chalk and sawdust!

bvafiades
06-11-2005, 17:26
Muscle milk is an awesome protein, great taste but it is worth it to order online even with shipping much cheaper than gnc if you shop around a little. Last i ordered it for 16.99 per 2.2 lb