What is 'Catch Wrestling'? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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BlackBelt
05-08-2005, 08:00
I've got Matt Fureys Combat Conditioning book, and he keeps sending me info on 'catch wrestling' that he learned from Karl Gotch (sp?).
I've never heard of catch wrestling. What is it? What country is it's origination?
Any info would be appreciated.
BlackBelt

gr81disp
05-08-2005, 13:23
Catch wrestling is a varied art developed to either pin or submit your opponent, like pro wrestling but for real.

Here is a website devoted to it.
http://sfuk.tripod.com/articles_02/lanccw_1.html

BTW, I kept my mouth shut before but FYI Furey is full of it. Maybe he is good at conditioning, but from a martial arts perspective, stay as far away as you can.

BlackBelt
05-08-2005, 17:40
Thanks for the link.
Yeah, Furey is a good coach for conditioning, but his other stuff is SO overpriced that I would never order anything else from him, when I can get the exact same info elsewhere for a fraction of what he charges. To be honest, the Combat Conditioning book has lots of good info in it, but for the total shipped price of about $36, I could have gotten a much better book down at the local bookstore, information wise and quality wise. I was disappointed in how thin (1/2 inch or so) the book was for $36, and it was printed on cheap paper and held together with even cheaper glue. The pages will probably yellow in the next few years.
But I had to try at least once to know.
Thanks again for the info.

Deputydave
05-10-2005, 20:34
Originally posted by gr81disp
Catch wrestling is a varied art developed to either pin or submit your opponent, like pro wrestling but for real.

Here is a website devoted to it.
http://sfuk.tripod.com/articles_02/lanccw_1.html

BTW, I kept my mouth shut before but FYI Furey is full of it. Maybe he is good at conditioning, but from a martial arts perspective, stay as far away as you can.

Full of what? Yes I agree that he is overpriced...but people are paying it hand over fist. And no, I'm not a Furey fan. I do however train with the guy that is in his book[s]. So I know quite a bit of the inside scoop. Matt is a world champion in the area of Kung Fu. Don't remember the competition but he did win the world championship.

He has trained directly under Karl who is legendary in Japan i.e. he is the MAN for catch in Japan i.e he is the real deal. Karl from what I understand has forgotten more than most will ever learn.

So in short Matt is known for conditioning, Kung Fu and catch. Regardless of how you feel about his salesmanship...you can't take away what he has acheived as it's been substantial.

Skpotamus
05-19-2005, 16:41
hmmm, I just saw this thread, and I guess I'll throwi nmy own 2 cents.

Catch wrestling is old pro wrestling with submissions. If you follow MMA, modern Shooto, and a few fighters in particular such as Kazushi Sakuraba use a modern form of catch.

Catch is wrestling focused, using wrestling as a basis for it's techniques. Similar to how BJJ uses Judo as it's basis. Michael Jen (of MMA.TV fame, very good BJJ instructor) did a writeup on catch when he met Tony C. He said catch was effective, and felt like "a mugging" when you were on the receiving end of it. It's a different approach to grappling.



FWIW, Furey is a snake oil salesman. He hooked up with Tony Ceechine to learn catch from him, after a year or so, Furey started putting out tapes claiming he was an expert in catch, basically, takign the lessons Tony was giving him and copying them down on tape and making money off of it. This caused a big rift between them, where Furey decided to discredit Tony C.

AFter the Tony C rift, he went to Karl Gotch to learn from him. AFter a few months, Gotch wanted nothing to do with him. AFter that, Furey, having run out of cash cows, started "channeling" ghosts of old catch wrestlers. I'm not joking, or exaggerating. He wrote a column about it in Grappling Magazine. He said he was channeling the Ghost of Farmer Burns to learn Catch. Then he started marketing conditioning to improve your golf game, sex life and how George Bush would beat Osama Bin Laden in a NHB fight (all columns Furey HIMSELF wrote).

Furey's book is ok, and the picture are great, but way overpriced IMO. Go to http://www.trainforstrength.com/index.shtml the site is run by a Navy UDT man and Seal Team Applicant with fight experience. Scrapper (as he went by on MMA.tv) gives out whole workouts that are far better than the Furey books, and he does it for free.

Also, since I'm on the subject, Furey's conditioning is a joke. He met up with a Lions Den fighter, Joe Hurley at one of his seminars. Furey grappled Hurley, who reported it on the UG. For those of you who don't know, Hurley fights at 170lbs, Furey is a heavyweight. During their 10 mintue match, Furey had to stop repeatedly to catch his breath. He also got tapped out repeatedly by a relatively new grappler.

If you want conditioning, go to the site I recommended above, if you want to learn catch, go check out Tony Ceechines stuff at www.catchwrestle.com

Deputydave
05-19-2005, 20:14
I suppose it all boils down to whom you wish to believe. What you've described is vastly different from what I've been told by someone who has trained both with Karl and Matt. Very different.

As for Matt's conditioning, anyone that can do a couple of thousand hindu squats isn't exactly out of shape. I'd also have to question Matt being beaten by a semi-experienced grappler.

No, I'm not a Furey fan, don't know him and don't care either way. But the people in my circle that know these men first hand relay information that greatly contridicts your summary above.

Anyway, catch is good stuff regardless. Be careful that what your being taught is actual catch though. Matt did learn from Karl, Tony did not.

Peace.

Skpotamus
05-19-2005, 23:08
Look, no offense, but I was up on this stuff as it was happening a few years ago when Furey started his smear campaign against tony C. At the time I was a fan of Furey's material, and had started playing around with Catch stuff via tapes, as well as exchanging emails with Tony (and Furey) trying to get a time setup for me to train with them in Chicago. At that time, Furey was also a student of Tony's. They used to do seminars together (furey is a better wrestler, but didn';t know jack about submissions at that time), I have a tape of the two of them working together at a seminar, Tony teaching, and Furey "helping". Furey had trouble getting through the seminar (out of breath), while Tony was still going strong. At the time, Furey was going on and on about how good Tony was at catch, etc. AFter their split (which from what I remember, was financial in nature), Furey couldn't do anything but talk crap about tony.

About this time, Furey's newsletter started getting weird... aka some total BS stories in it. Such as his mother in law coing to visit from... eh, can't remember the country. But anyways, she gets mugged. Furey then gets another purse, stuffs it full of newspapers, has her walk around the area she was mugged, when a guy attacks her, he jumps out from behind the bush he was hiding behind and breaks the guys ankle. From what I was told, his stories got worse from there, but that was when I canceled my membership.

Furey learned from tony first, Tony learned From Stanley Radwin (I think that was his name), and Lou Thesz is the one that called Tony a "hooker" which means top notch shooter. Furey on the other hand only has his own words to proclaim him a catchwrestler.

Look, I don't really have a stake in this, you obviously like furey, and apparantly have met him, for what it's worth, I've talked to him via email before, and he seemed nice, but then his smear campaing to run Tony C off of the Underground forum started (it was proved to be him via a moderator).

Two very differenty types of conditioning, one is muscular endurance, an aerobic activity. ACtually grappling someone is typically an ANEROBIC activity. This is the dept that most wrestlers fall down in. FWIW, I've met Joe Hurley, and some of the other Lion's Den member's and their word is gold as far as training goes.

If you wanna look into furey, and his top notch training via the Ghost of Farmer Burns* (Furey's own claim), go for it. YOu will learn some good wrestling skills, as well as some Shao Jiao (SP?), but for submissions, you'd be better off studying BJJ, with Tony C, or with one of the Shooto schools under Eric Paulson.


Furey's website is http://www.mattfurey.com/ check out his Kung Fu Sexual Secrets course for ONLY $397 + S&H, his how to make a $1M as a personal trainer in one year for the Low Low price of $1,000, his Magnetic MInd Secrets for the "incredibly low amount of $147 plus S&H", How to eliminate carpal tunnel syndrome in 30 days for only $97, or his How to Perform Handstands Video for only $79

or.... you can check out Tony C's stuff which averages between $20 and $35 per DVD.

Take a look at both, and choose for yourself.

Deputydave
05-20-2005, 14:53
Look, no offense

No offense take, I have no vested interest in it either way. Merely passing along what I know personally.

Look, I don't really have a stake in this, you obviously like furey, and apparantly have met him

I'm not sure what would lead you to believe either? I've stated a couple of times I've never met him.

I've seen both Matt and Tony's site. I'm sure there both great guys. I like combat conditioning because it works. It isn't anything original...but then nothing is. As I don't train in for a sport venue, catch is only a periodic pass time.

Anyway, good talking with you. :)

Skpotamus
05-20-2005, 23:16
Apologies, I shouldn't post after a long, frustrating day at work. I just had a great "talk" with my boss right before I got home and my post was much harsher than it ever should be.

I do have kind of an axe to grind with Furey I guess. At the time I was just getting started in grappling and NHB training (then we didn't call it MMA), the Underground forum (on submissionfighting.com) had a handful of experts on their forums that shared info (training tips and tech help) at no cost, similar to the experts on this forum, except they had actual individual forums for the respected individuals. There was Roy Harris, Michael Jen, Tony Blauer and Tony Cechine was one of these. Matt Furey "helped" out on the catchwrestling forum, most of which was marketing hype for tapes (no actual posts I read were helpful in anyway) or hype for himself.

After their split, Furey started spamming the Catch Wrestling forum relentlessly. Literally over a hundred threads of nothing but insults and derogatory remarks. One of the moderators banned Furey, who kept on signing up with different ID's (IP matching I guess) Until finally, Tony C shut down the forum and it's stayed gone, after that Furey left the UG, and only returned to hype up his newest tape or book.

That kind of left a bad taste in my mouth, as well as the other guys that enjoyed the posts by Tony C. (BTW, the material for Furey's book Combat Conditioning was taught to him mostly by Tony C, and his submission tapes came straight from tony and were made while he was training with Tony, not with Karl)



Back to catch in general, it seems to work well for good wrestlers, but if you don't have a good wrestling background, you would be better off with BJJ or shootwrestling or Sambo. I did learn some nice twists to subs I already knew, as well as a few new subs, but I don't get to use them as much since my other training partners were better wrestlers.

Deputydave
05-21-2005, 15:07
No apology necessary :)

I can understand your frustration based on what you've experienced, I'd probably feel the same way.

I agree, catch is very helpful to those with a solid background. I also picked up several good 'tidbits' that I can see using in a violent encounter.