Pros & Cons. "slapping every go fast look good toy on their gun to make it different" [Archive] - Glock Talk

View Full Version : Pros & Cons. "slapping every go fast look good toy on their gun to make it different"


LongGun1
05-09-2005, 23:14
Seriously, most AR-15 guys are like ricers, slapping every go fast look good toy on their gun to make it different, but they all end up looking the same.

Chrevofreak..... made this statement on the "Differences between the Black Rifle Club and Kalashnikov Klub" & I thought it needed it's own thread for further debate!


I have several of both AR & AK... and trick both types out, but do not follow the "Herd" as to choice or type of accessories. I was putting "L.E.R. Red Dots" on my "Toys" in the mid to late 80's, not because it was the thing to do (because it definitely was not at the time), but because of the 24/7 all-weather speed & accuracy effectiveness gains that was a byproduct of the additions.

Same goes for the AK-74 muzzle breaks I installed. Really made some believers when we were doing "Night Shoots" at a local private range!
And I tricked out many customer's "Toys" as a FFL in the late 80's to mid 90's and got many to thinking (instead of Blindly Following the Herd) concerning the effective use of their investments.

I look at the trend to load up the barrel end with every weighty device known to man with amusement, as it greatly increases your "Snap" time (targeting time) from low ready & the barrel momentum wants overshoot the target when arriving at the target plane.
Also all of the weight at the barrel's end greatly increases muscle fatigue when on the target plane.

I like "Small Very-Low-Weight Muzzle End Lighting Devices" that are low profile & do not interfere with the forward grip,... but at the same time realize improper use can & will get you killed.

Lasers are cool on one hand & on the other can effect your demise. Much better to employ a "Dot";... as it is effective under all lighting conditions,can lead a moving target, and is stealthy.

Also the vertical forward grips that are now commonplace ..are obtrusive and add weight to the muzzle end ...further complicating the issue on a semi-auto weapon. I find that they detract from accuracy when shooting freehand also. Much more effective to have a good Muzzle Brake..(especially if you have a select fire weapon) than to load down the business end with weighty & obtrusive gear just to keep "Muzzle Rise" down.

Also all of the obtrusive gear at muzzle end reduces your view of potential threats & clutters the target plane. If you are going to put something at muzzle end..... best to use space that is already optically occluded by the gun.

.

In Short...I am not in pre-school & my "Toys" are not Barbie & Ken Dolls waiting to be "Dressed Out" for the fun of it. Just because you throw dollars at it does not make it better. (Something Washington DC should consider when dealing with "issues" ;) )

One day these "Tricked Out Toys" could give me & loved ones an advantage if & when SHTF...& I pull out all the stops (& plop down the $$) to give every advantage, but do not load up on goodies just to keep up with the "GI Jones"!

.

What are your comments on this tact....Pro:) or Con :( !!!

.

I figured this topic would be a good one for my first thread....

to "Stir the Pot" and get a good thoughtful debate going!! ;) ;f

RMTactical
05-09-2005, 23:40
^6
Nice point.

I am all for people customizing their weapon for their own personal needs.

I take joy in the simplicity of these weapons. The AR can use some pretty sweet optics and I admit to giving in to that... but I think it is important to be proficient with the irons sights on any weapon as well.

Also, a nice two stage trigger can help you tighten up your groups pretty well.

Who cares what others do to their guns though? Although, I hate being compared to a "ricer". I like Hondas, but I didn't put a big spoiler and giant coffee can exhaust pipe on mine...

TKM
05-09-2005, 23:43
"I want to be different. Like all of my friends."


Of course, everyone's got different friends.

At least you're not trying to make your "guage" look meaner.

Sorry, but it's fun to watch everyone try to out-engineer the engineers.

LongGun1
05-10-2005, 00:12
GoreLicks,

I take joy in the simplicity of these weapons. The AR can use some pretty sweet optics and I admit to giving in to that... but I think it is important to be proficient with the irons sights on any weapon as well.

Ditto with the iron sight usage....but I have NO problem spending more on optics for a AK than I did the gun. To me a "Dot" on a AK increases its effectiveness... Many Times Over.
In the past,.. have been taken to task by friends & customers for my "choices"....but when I got them to the range...they understood "in spades".
"Night Shoots" will really get many to see the light...concerning having a "Night Time Capability"!

Who cares what others do to their guns though?

I will get "Off Topic" for this one!!!

I do!!

And here is the reasons....when I was a FFL & when the occasional "Gang Banger" would stop at my Gun Show table & attempt to listen in...I would "Clam Up Tight" until they moved on.
I have actually been threatened by these types... as I told them their money was "No Good" & to "Take a Hike" at Gunshows.

But I feel that the more that the "Good Guys & Gals" have effective weapons & use sound tactics....the better & safer society is as a whole!! I would like to think the majority of those debating topics like this on forums are those "Good Guys & Gals"....and would be the ones standing one day if SHTF [either personal (i.e. home invasion), local (i.e. rioting), regional (i.e. earthquake) or worse].

The L.A. Riots & 9/11 should be a wake-up call to those who believe the government will protect you.... & as more "Good Guys & Gals" take ownership of their personal & community self protection...the better off we all are as a whole!!!

I had the "opportunity" to live in a "Police State" for about a year and a half,....and we have giving up too many liberties & headed in that direction for many years.

Only by taking your "Second Amendment Rights & Responsibilities" seriously & ownership of your security (both personal & community)... does this un-constitutional trend towards a "Police State".....have a chance of abating.

LongGun1
05-10-2005, 00:16
TKM,


"I want to be different. Like all of my friends."


;f ;f Exactly!! If there is a good reason for it.... GREAT!!

But the "Blind leading the Blind"...does not help the situation,...just complicates it!!


Sorry, but it's fun to watch everyone try to out-engineer the engineers.


But I am an Engineer!!!;f ;f

DJ Niner
05-10-2005, 01:50
Luckily, this is the US of A, and I don't have to choose between "dressed" and "stripped" ARs; I can (and do) have both! :)

I would agree that little more than a dot-sight (receiver mounted for the weight reason stated above), a white light (quick-detachable, please; no need to have the weight out there if it isn't needed yet), and perhaps a vertical grip (jury is still out on this one for me; I see +'s & -'s both ways) are needed for most of us. All the remaining money should go into practice ammo and quality range time/instruction, for BEST results. You AK fans better practice your mag changes if you want to keep up with us high-speed/low-drag AR shooters, though! ;)


Oh, and don't forget the long-range AR/AK! Clamp-on a celestial scope three-quarters the length of the entire gun, a bipod on/under the 50-percent-longer barrel, and a trick stock and pistol-grip on the rear-end and you're ready to rock!!! ;f

LongGun1
05-10-2005, 03:25
D J Niner,

I agree with most of what you posted, but these I have some differences...

I would agree that little more than a dot-sight (receiver mounted for the weight reason stated above),

I have to admit even with the weight of the "Dot" shifted forward with the L.E.R Setup,... the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages for me.

#1...The receiver mounted "Dot Sight" blocks too much of my peripheral vision & the mass of the scope causes my eyes to want to focus on a closer sight plane.

Also I feel the sight out further lends to faster and at the same time...more accurate shooting.

#2...The "Dot Sight" further out is easier & quicker to manipulate scope covers & rheostat settings.
The early model Tasco PDP1L mounted on a now discontinued B-Square L.E.R. Mount that are on most of my AKM's.... have the rheostat at a perfect position for turn on & adjustment with my left hand. I can go from low ready with the scope off & while the gun is rising to the sight plane....quickly turn-on & adj the scope ...without any loss of speed.

Oh, and don't forget the long-range AR/AK! Clamp-on a celestial scope three-quarters the length of the entire gun, a bipod on/under the 50-percent-longer barrel, and a trick stock and pistol-grip on the rear-end and you're ready to rock!!

My long range AKMs are NHM-91s (Semi-RPKs) that I call "BIG MACS" with the same "L.E.R.& Dot" setup for long range.
I use my 75 rd drums or 30 rd mags as a Mono-Pod...for stability. I have a couple of tricked out Poly-Tech National Matches/Legends & AK Hunters with a very solid Steel Scope Mounts & Varible Power T-Reticle Russian Scopes.....but still prefer the "Big Macs" even at distance.
I once was shooting at a tree at a "Night Shoot" with tracers at a distance I later learned was 650 yards....but once I walked it to the target (I had to aim maybe 12 or so feet high), I was able to bounce the tracers off the base of the tree pretty well.

As far as a long range AR, I have those too....a couple of Dragunovs (Chinese NDM-86 & Russian Tiger) for longer range....& a couple of .50 BMGs for REALLY Long Range!;) ;f

Just to show you that I am not TOO Biased against "Gadgets-on-Toys" & ARs,...here is one of mine that is still a "Work in Progress"

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/LG1/94050000407_0_ALB.jpg

fnfalman
05-10-2005, 09:30
Michigun has an interesting project going on with his AK that would rival any of the dolled-up Mattel toy. I am not the tactical type so my guns are plain jane, but do whatever you wanna do. It's your gun.

LongGun1
05-10-2005, 10:08
fnfalman,


Michigun has an interesting project going on with his AK that would rival any of the dolled-up Mattel toy.

What is he doing with his?

fnfalman
05-10-2005, 18:18
Michigun posted a thread here not too long ago, but he has the M4 collapsible stock mounted, rails out of the wazoo and all kinds of doodads mounted on the rails.

Here's one of his thread about mods to his AK

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=327605&highlight=Michigun

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