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patton117
05-16-2005, 11:01
Hello, I am new to Glock Talk and am a history buff. I have read all of Stephen Ambrose's Books (GREAT Author), and am looking for advise on a new Military History author. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

84S
05-16-2005, 21:33
Originally posted by patton117
Hello, I am new to Glock Talk and am a history buff. I have read all of Stephen Ambrose's Books (GREAT Author), and am looking for advise on a new Military History author. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Take a look at Hampton Sides's "Ghost Soldiers". It's a great read.

PaulBk
05-17-2005, 16:22
It depends on what you like. W.E.B. Griffin has a ton of books:

Brotherhood of War series
The Corps series
Badge of Honor series (cop)

Each series has between 7-10 novels. His writing is not everyone. Great characters, not much action. His attention to military history and detail is pretty good. I have read them all and enjoyed them tremendously. Give them a try...

-PB

Historian
05-20-2005, 21:21
That's really an open ended question considering how broad the topic of military history is.

My suggestion, as a WWII nut, is to start with some first hand accounts.

If you like Ambrose's Band of Brothers you might like to know that Parachute Infantry : An American Paratrooper's Memoir of D-Day and the Fall of the Third Reich by David Kenyon Webstern was written by one the "Band of Brothres.

Also Don Burgett's 4 book series on his adventures in WWII is a priceless body of work that belongs in our national archives.

Roll Me Over by RAYMOND GANTTER is another fine book. I really enjoyed this one because of the quality of the writing. He served with the 4th ID.

If you survive by George Wilson is a great book as well. These are just a few of the books I've enjoyed in the last few years.

Like I said...when it comes to history you can study just about anything. Just thought I'd follow on your theme regarding WWII.

RBR
06-19-2005, 10:54
John Keegan is a pretty good & prolific author. Read "The Face of Battle : A Study of Agincourt, Waterloo, and the Somme". Very good book comparing/contrasting the human effects,technology,fighting styles,results etc. from different ages of warfare.

Max Hastings is also good too.

Historian
06-30-2005, 22:03
Here's some good books in my collection. These are all first hand accounts.

War in the Boats by Rhue
Wahoo by RADM O'kaine
Take her deep by ADM Gaslitan
War in the Deep by Hoyt
Batdfish by Lowder/Scott
Bowfin by Hoyt
Clear the Bridge by RADM O'kaine
U 505 by ADM Gallery

Heaven and Hell by Poppel
Iron Coffins by Werner
Steel Boats, Iron Hearts, by Goebeler
Uboat Commander by Kramer
Soldat by Von Luck
Forgotten Solider by Segair (contraversial book but very well written)
Blood Red Snow Koschorrek
Black Idelwise by Voss

Currahee by Burget
Seven Roads to Hell by Burget
Beyond the Rhine by Burget
The Road to Arnham by Burget
Parachute Infantry by Webster
Simple Sounds of Freedom by Taylor
Fighting with the Screaming Eagles by Bowen
If you survive by Wilson
Company Commander by MacDonald
Baa Ba Black Sheep by Boyington
A General's Life by Bradley
Goodbye darkness by Manchester
Helmet for my Pillow by Leckie
With the old breed by Sledge
Roll me Over in the Clover by Gantter

History rules!

nerfman
07-19-2005, 16:56
WWII:

Duty - Bob Greene
Another River, Another Town - John Irwin
Goodbye Darkness - William Manchester
The Last Enemy - Richard Hillary
Presumed Dead - Beirne Lay
Samurai! - Saburo Sakai
Serenade To The Big Bird - Bert Stiles
Clear The Bridge - Richard O'Kane


VietNam:

The Things They Carried - Tim O'Brien
Into The Green - Cherokee Paul McDonald

Historian
07-19-2005, 18:41
Looking at this list reminds me of how much I love books. I can't imagine a life without them. I know some people who never read for pleasure. It's sad.

Very sad. They miss out on learning, laughing, crying, the entire gambit of life. You can find it in books.

Goodbye Darkness has the single funniest three pages in the history of the second world war. The scene where he tries to lose his virginity before shipping off. :)

nerfman
07-20-2005, 17:19
I couldn't agree more. Mark Twain said that a man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.

I average about 3 books a month and at that pace I have 12 years worth of unread books.

Historian
07-20-2005, 19:51
Nerfman,

We had a conversation today at work about the digital age. One of the guys I work with spoke well of his palm communicator.

I asked him...if on a cold night he would like to warm his feet by a nice fire, brandy in hand, and read from an electronic book. He said he would love to...as it was warm...and he could go from page to page repeatedly and electronically. His electronic book could hold hundreds of books.

I think he's lost his humanity. There is a comforting feel to a book in your hands than can never be replaced by electronic means.

At least...not to the bibliophile.

DonGlock26
07-22-2005, 16:12
Anything by Victor David Hanson.^c


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385720386/qid=1122070265/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/104-6967247-4736707?v=glance&s=books

supersixth
08-06-2005, 15:55
Second the opinion on Ghost Soldiers - excellent book.

I also recommend Enemy at the Gates by William Craig. A fine book about the battle at Stalingrad. Much better than the movie that came out a few years back.

ls
08-09-2005, 22:41
I recommend a couple of works by B. H. Liddell Hart. His book "Strategy" is very good as is the edited work "The Rommel Papers". This is a collection of Rommel's letters and diaries.

Glock19xdsc
08-10-2005, 19:14
"Memoirs of the Second World War" abridged version or
"The Second World War" six volume set by Winston S. Churchill.

Historian
08-10-2005, 19:54
Originally posted by ls
I recommend a couple of works by B. H. Liddell Hart. His book "Strategy" is very good as is the edited work "The Rommel Papers". This is a collection of Rommel's letters and diaries.

Both are great works. BH Liddell Hart was one of the great thinkers of this type of work.

His interviews with the German generals after WWII was compiled into "The German Generals Talk."

Very interesting read.

G31Steve
08-17-2005, 21:58
I notice your screen name I wonder if you have read patton's war time journal?Its called "War as I knew it" its a great look into a brilliant mans mind,intersting to here about how well he was treated by the sultans of north Africa.Other then that every think else I can think of has been mentioned.

Historian
08-18-2005, 05:59
G31Steve,

Thank you for noticing my GT name of historian. History is my refuge. I adore it. It is the place I go when I need to get away from the world. Some people drink. Some people exercise. My poison is history books. :

I’ve read Patton’s book and some of his personal papers. The book and it really does shine a light on Patton as a person. We tend to have a glorified view of Patton being invincible and infallible. The perfect solider in every respect. Perhaps that has a lot to do with our desires to see the movie Patton as a real portrait.

Truth was he was nothing like that and his book shows it. I think one of the most interesting passages in that book concerns the Parthenon in Greece. Patton and Omar Bradly were admiring the structure when Patton tried to slip the blade of his pocket knife between the stones. It could not be done. The stones were so perfectly cut that even without adhesive…it held together...it was perfect.

Just goes to show you that he was more than a military man. He was a poet, historian, solider, artist, horse rider, not a bad writer at all, and a damn good skeet shooter. He designed tanks and uniforms for tankers. He was a very well educated and dedicated man. An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, placed in a puzzle (historical reference).

If you liked that book, you might try Carlos D’estes a Genius for War. Great read and what I personally think is the definitive work on Patton’s life.

The quote about Patton that like most comes from Omar Bradly, “Gerogie Patton didn’t die when his jeep turned over. He died when they took his army away from him.”

G31Steve
08-18-2005, 11:59
I was actually refering to Patton117 the person who started this post,I have read Genius for War also,I am actually a history major history also being my refuge.I wasnt saying his journal was the best look at him,just very interesting.I know he was much more then the view most people have of him.

;c to another Patton admirer!;?

Historian
08-18-2005, 13:25
G32Steve,

My bad. Your post followed mine. Being a fellow history major...what are your plans to use your degree and where are you going to school?

evlbruce
08-19-2005, 23:31
I highly reccomend David Ball's "Ironfire," it's historical fiction set during the Ottoman invasion of Malta. Ehile not military fiction per-se it takes place during the tranistion period of knights in armor to "pike and shot" the descriptions of the seige are the best I have read from the period.

G31Steve
08-22-2005, 20:30
Originally posted by Historian
G32Steve,

My bad. Your post followed mine. Being a fellow history major...what are your plans to use your degree and where are you going to school?


I am not sure,I am seriously considering being a writer,I didnt mention this before but my grandfather actually served under Patton at one point durring the war and met him on several ocations,I grew up living with him an hearing stories from North Africa an Italy,I think I would be doing my grandfater a great honor by putting all of his memories into print.Beyond that I have also thought about teaching or law school.I have been at USF for 2 years but im sitting this semester out.

Historian
08-23-2005, 20:39
Steve,

It must have been very interesting talking to your grandfather about his days with Patton. He's without a doubt an icon of that generation. He's almost mythical. Interestingly enough, his son was in the army too and did pretty well for himself.

I hope you put those memories down on paper. That generation is leaving us all too quickly. It's a sad situation. I think we could use their strength today.

It's also interesting that you want to be a writer. I've done that and it's hard to make a living at it. But it makes for a wonderful hobby. I have a stack of rejection slips from some of the finest periodicals in the world. :)

If you do better, I want an autographed book for my collection.

G31Steve
08-24-2005, 18:57
Originally posted by Historian

I hope you put those memories down on paper. That generation is leaving us all too quickly. It's a sad situation. I think we could use their strength today.

I couldnt agree more,that is my main motivation.

Originally posted by Historian

It's also interesting that you want to be a writer. I've done that and it's hard to make a living at it. But it makes for a wonderful hobby. I have a stack of rejection slips from some of the finest periodicals in the world. :)

If you do better, I want an autographed book for my collection.


I am afraid of writeing not being easy also,but ill let you know about that signed copy.

Baba Louie
08-27-2005, 14:01
patton117,

Check out these links for some www-style military history reading
http://militaryhistory.about.com/
http://www.militaryreadinglist.com/

I know it's fashionable to knock WalMart these days, but they have a lot going for them in regards to reading material they offer
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/search-ng.gsp?search_constraint=3920&search_query=military+history&ics=20&ico=0&Continue.x=17&Continue.y=10

These guys have some classics and well written/researched material
http://www.usni.org/press/press.html

Hope some of those help (someone).
Reading about military history is almost as addictive as owning and shooting firearms

PSURT
09-05-2005, 23:29
Graduate with a degree in history here. I have several books that I enjoyed from classes over the years:

Storm of Steel by Ernst Junger, I think it's one of the better books written about WW1. It's a narrative of Junger's time served in the war, very well written, very grapic; interesting charecter.

Daniel Morgan: Revolutionary Rifleman by Don Higginbotham. If you ever saw The Patriot with Mel Gibson, this is the person who his charecter was losely based off of. Chronicles Morgan's life with emphasis on his time in the war and his tactics.

Lastly I need to suggest one of the books by my favorite professor at school, Carol Reardon. I read Picketts Charge In History and Memory, it was an excellent book and Dr. Reardon gives an excellent tour of Gettysburg.

Hope that helps.

-Joe

tracyt1800
09-07-2005, 15:00
"The Pirate Coast" by Richard Zacks

Zacks discusses the First Barbary War in which the fledgling United States went to war with Tripoli and the marines made their first military mark. This is also the source of the lyrics "... to the shores of Tripoli".

It's a very interesting look at "state sponsored piracy" by an Islamic nation.

Mrs. Tink
09-08-2005, 10:33
With the Old Breed, by Eugene B. Sledge. First hand account by a young Marine in WWII. Quick read.

A Rumor Of War, by Philip Caputo. Extremely well written first hand account of his time as an infantry officer in Vietnam.

The Killer Angels, by Michael Shaara. Historical account that won the Pulitzer Prize. A novel-like reading of the Battle of Gettysburg, with characters "filled in" so that everything seems far more real.

Case Studies In Strategic Bombing by R. Cargill Hall. Total non-fiction, but interesting for the strategist.

Skunk Works: A Personal Memoir of My Years At Lockheed, by Leo Janos and Ben R. Rich. More of an aviation history kind of thing, but full of once-secret defense projects and what it was like to work on them.

I am sure there are others, but these stick out in my mind. :cool:

glkdawg45
09-10-2005, 07:54
[QUOTE]




The Things They Carried - Tim O'Brien
QUOTE]


I read this while in high school, early-mid 80's. It is a real eye-opener to the souls and character of the men who wear the uniforms.

m2hmghb
09-12-2005, 00:00
Rumor of War and The Old Breed are both books worth reading. I've also enjoyed 7 Roads to Hell by Donald Burgett and his other books, memoirs from WW2 with the 101 airborne. Another excellent read is Panzer Commander by Hans von Luck. Ian Slater has a fictional series about World War 3, called WWIII. If you don't mind recitations of battles then Gerald Astor may intrest you, he can be dull and boring but there is a lot of information there. I have probably read over 200 books on World War II and these are the ones that have stuck out, (not bad for a 21 year old ehh).

KiwiFF
09-12-2005, 13:45
I think Military History can be summed up - 'Those that forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them'. It also reminds me what hell our forebears and the victims of war went through.

I'd recommend:

Stalingrad: The Fateful Seige 1942-1943 by Antony Beevor
Belin: The Downfall 1945 by Antony Beevor

He is a historian by profession and sourced a lot of material from the new de-classified Russian archives.

Of the Vietnam books mentioned, I can't believe nobody has refered:

Chickenhawk by Robert Mason
Dispatches by Michael Herr

There are so many good Vietnam books out there.

And for something a bit more recent:

Generation Kill: : Devil Dogs, Iceman, Captain America, and the New Face of American War - by Evan Wright

Its by Berkely press and pretty hard to find, but its a good book about rolling into Bahgdad with the recon boys.

And lastly for a bit of counterpoint:

Hegemony or Survival by Noam Chomsky MIT Professor of linguistics.

Historian
09-12-2005, 13:53
Originally posted by KiwiFF


And lastly for a bit of counterpoint:

Hegemony or Survival by Noam Chomsky MIT Professor of linguistics.

KiwiFF,

Hate to say it but Noam Chomski is really no one to read academically.

I know many people seem to think that he’s one of the greatest thinkers of our time. But I really think the dude has a lot of explaining to do and he's never faced up.


Check out this link:

http://www.wernercohn.com/Chomsky.html
-------
Partners in Hate

Noam Chomsky and the Holocaust Deniers
-------

To be quite frank about it. I tried very hard to ask Mr. Chomski about his beliefs at a school rally and was shot down. He refuses to allow a challange. To say the holocaust never happened...well it just amazes me that he's still with MIT.


I won’t buy his books until he explains his thoughts.

KiwiFF
09-12-2005, 18:33
Hi Historian,

Don't wont to get into a Chomsky debate but the man himself states:

"My views are quite explicitly stated: the Holocaust was the most extreme atrocity in human history, and we lose our humanity if we are even willing to enter the arena of debate with those who seek to deny or underplay Nazi crimes."

(Link) (http://www.chomsky.info/letters/19920331.htm)

I totally support your right to not read his books, but if you choose not to how do you know he's talking rubbish?

We are fortunate to live in a society where differing views can be accomodated.

Also Vietnam fiction:

FNG by David Bodney
CW2 by Layne Heath
Flight of the Intruder by Stephen Coonts
Apache Sunrise by Jerome Boyle

Cheers

KiwiFF

Historian
09-12-2005, 19:49
Kiwi,

Thanks for keeping it polite. I can't stand it when people get bent out of shape in on line chats and I can understand your questioning my reading of Chomsky's work based on my statement that he's not exactly someone academically creditable in the area of denying holocaust.

I've had to read many of Chomsky's works and writings as they are often quoted in academic circles. I've had my chance to read them and had discuss them public ally and all I can say is he's done a nice two-step dance over the years.

For reference Deborah Lipstadt wrote a masterful book called Denying the Holocaust that details what she calls the growing assault on truth and memory. She goes into vast details as to Chomsky's issues as one of the key supporters of the myth of denying holocaust.

To quote Ms. Lispetst, “The inroads deniers have been able to make into the American educational establishment are most disconcerting. Defenders- Noam Chomsky probably the best known among them-have turned up in a verity of quarters.”

She goes on to remind us that Chomsky has written in support Robert Faurisson body of work that claims that there is “no proof” that Faurrison is an antisemitic regardless of the fact that he claims the Holocaust was a “zionest lie.”

It should be noted that in 1979 Robert Faurisson, a professor at the University of Lyons, was condemned by a French court for the "falsification of history."

Interestingly enough, in your link Chomsky distances himself from Faurrison's “work” by saying that he looked the material over briefly and with out great interest because the body of work as not that interesting

Chomsky as quoted from your link,”“If you are interested in whether there are antisemitic implications in F's work, why not look at it? I haven't, because I have no interest in him, any more than I have any interest in Arthur Butz -- who, oddly, does not come up in these discussions, though his significance in the US is far greater.”

How can Chomsky at one point support and at a later time deny his support for Faurrison's work? He states he merely supports free speech. But what he's really doing in supporting poor academics and cloudy thinking. He has changed his views when confronted by the fact he was supporting a FALSE view of reality brought on by inept Frenchmen.

Chomsky is part of what is wrong with education today. We have allowed the politics of the age to interfere with the history of the past. Interpretation of facts and truth have been replaced with the ideology and demagoguery of political agents.

KiwiFF
09-13-2005, 02:52
Historian

I appreciate you taking the time to explain your viewpoint. I must admit yesterday was the first time that I had heard Chomsky's name used in relation to Holocaust denial/defence and I'm not really in a position to defend the man if what you say is correct.

I would like to research this further though. Do you know if Lipstadt has any work online?

I would say I find it refreshing not to walk into a flame war over this and look forward to gaining a better understanding to both sides of this issue.

KiwiFF

Historian
09-13-2005, 06:04
Kiwi,

It is nice to have a rational talk online. I’ve gotten into some pretty heated debates on a number of topics only to have people become name callers or insult each other rather than debate a topic with any thought.

It does not surprise me that you’ve not heard of Chomsky’s positions on the Holocaust because, as I previously mentioned, he’s done a nice two-step dance.

Chomsky is a darling on the radical left and as a result I’m convinced that a lot of very well meaning educators are happy to quote Chomsky without doing their own research.

For example, I had a teacher at the University of Florida who was beside herself with joy that Chomsky was going to be at the university for a speech. When approached by me with facts regarding Chomsky’s position she suddenly found herself in a quandary. She was supporting a left-wing ideologue who historical views that are clearly wrong in the most extreme.

At best I think Chomsky can be viewed as an extremist in the voice of free speech. But I’ll argue that supporting free speech to the point where it becomes detrimental to the study of facts is wrong.

Ironically, Chomsky’s very own position on this is once again not clear. If a right-wing political figured wanted to support the Vietnam War he would clearly try shut down that person’s point of view as “hate mongering.”

This is a link to Libstadt’s book on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785770011/ref=pd_sim_1/104-2965045-1527129?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

The controversy continues to rage on the topic of who supports who as you can imagine this is a topic that grabs the attention of many.

Here’s a link to a very well written blog that goes into further detail as to Chomsky’s issues and puts them in very clear view.

http://antichomsky.blogspot.com/2004/07/political-economy-of-holocaust-denial.html

It’s all very interesting reading.