Worst Grand Prix race EVER.... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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epsylum
06-19-2005, 21:14
I blame pretty much everybody except IMS. The FIA, Michelin, and all the Michelin teams are to blame.

Sadly I was there (I live in Indy so at least I am not out travel expenses).

What's everybodies take on it?

I feel they should have allowed them to put on new tires and just have them face a penalty of some sort. It would have been better than what actually happened.

David N.
06-19-2005, 21:50
FIA agreed to let the Michelin teams change tires whenever they needed to. Michelin didn't agree to it. Michelin takes all the blame. I can't blame the drivers. Some of them (Raikkonen and Coultard at least) wanted to race anyway. I think Michelin has less honorable motives, too. They were going to get beat today either way, and decided that claiming "safety issues" would somehow be better. Not all the teams were seeing signs of trouble, and Toyota was the team that had both of the failures. Michelin had options, but instead chose to take their ball and go home.

epsylum
06-19-2005, 21:56
Originally posted by David N.
FIA agreed to let the Michelin teams change tires whenever they needed to.

I never heard that. I was under the impression that the FIA rules just plain ole didn't allow for it.

edited to add:

I sooooo wanted toyota to win today too. CRAP! One bad thing for me is I will feel the fall out of this since I live in Indy and may never be able to see the only race I cared enough about to pay to go see at IMS, the USGP. NASCAR and IRL bore the crap out of me.

Navy joe
06-19-2005, 22:07
FIA told Michelin that as per the rules they were allowed a second set which Michelin had. What Michelin wanted was to fly in a whole new batch from France which FIA nixed. As I said in GNG, I think FIA should have modified the race course, made a good show for the fans and then handled the mutinous teams very roughly with points and fines afterwards. The show must go on Bernie! 100K paying fans screwed, good job. Having been at a racetrack for 26 of my 30 years, never seen anything like it. One more reason for a bunch of Bubba-come-lately Nascar fans to bag on racing that doesn't have fenders.

Agreed the drivers all wanted to race, if you told them their tires would all fly into the stands ten laps in the drivers would to a man go out, run 11 hard laps then pit for tires. It wasn't up to the drivers. When you strap on a F1 car and contract you do what you are told, to a letter.

Technically FIA was right, but they should have taken one for the fans. Like many said, F1 has been at Indy 6 years, IRL runs into those corners just as fast, there is plenty of time and data for Michelin to show up ready to race. Nobody packed up their toys and went home earlier this year when Ferrari was launching Bridgestone chunks everywhere, now special consideration should be granted? F! Michelin, don't buy them for your car!

Cochese
06-19-2005, 22:33
Hmmm. I'm not big into it so I'm not sure what actually has occured. Watching WRC takes up most of my TV car time when I can catch it.

David N.
06-19-2005, 22:43
Originally posted by epsylum
I never heard that. I was under the impression that the FIA rules just plain ole didn't allow for it.

If a tire is damaged, they are allowed to change it. FIA also said that the teams could change the tires they qualified on and start on a different tire, but there would be a penalty. FIA said the penalty would be large enough to keep anyone from using a set of "qualifying" tires later, but did not think the teams would be excluded from the race.

Memos between FIA and the Frenchy tire company can be read here. (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050619/SPORTS01/50619009/0/SPORTS01&template=printart)

Not only did I not get to see the F1 race because Michelin decided not to have one, but my stupid cable company can't (or don't want to) figure out how to get a Fox station to come in right, so I couldn't watch the NASCAR race either. If it hadn't been for Le Mans, I'd be going through racing withdrawal right now.

masher-masher
06-20-2005, 01:46
michael is now has a chance to win the title. da horrar

engineer151515
06-20-2005, 08:28
If I were Bridgestone tires, I'd be making Marketing Hay over this highly visible stumble with Michelin tires....

Rob1035
06-20-2005, 09:07
looks like they tried to screw ferrari via the rules and it backfired. Good for them.


Ecclestone's comments were amusing as well. imagine if an American said that ****, N.O.W. would have cut his pecker off right then and there...

robertoh
06-20-2005, 10:16
Lets face it,F1 has been dieing in this country for the past 10 yrs. I think in 5 years the Indy track will all Nascar or it will fold up.

arrowdriver
06-20-2005, 12:10
hmm was my understanding they would let them race on the second set of tires, which was intermediary rain tires.

And IRL had problems with the new track surface, same with Nascar. Difference is both of those series have lots of practice time at Indianapolis, F-1 has 2 days. Not to mention that they have ruling bodies that understand that they exists for the fans, not the other way around.

Overall pretty sad. Glad I decided against going.

Rob1035
06-20-2005, 12:24
Originally posted by arrowdriver
Not to mention that they have ruling bodies that understand that they exists for the fans, not the other way around.




Exactimundo, which is why F1 will never be a real sport in the US.

gaz
06-21-2005, 20:40
Yes, it was an absolute fiasco. But...

What if...the Indy authorities and F1 had agreed to a chichane at turn 13--an hour before the race-without any testing-and there had been some serious accidents there?

What if...the Michelin-clad teams agreed not to race for points and to let the Bridgestone-clad teams go to the front of the grid. Given the performance of the Jordans and Minardis, how likely was it that if their (normally) slow starts would have caused a major pile-up?

IMO, the focus should be on the Toyota Team. They were the only ones with any problems with the Michelins. They were known to want to run at lower pressures than the limits recommended by Michelin, to provide more grip. But, as I'm sure everyone here knows: lower pressure means higher tire temperatures, and the more likelihood of tire failure.

From my understanding. after Raul's crash during practice, the Michelin tire compounds were subjected to testing--in the U.S.--and proved inconclusive. Given that result, would you as CEO of Michelin want to give it a try, with millions watching?

I can't fault the Bridgestone teams--they had the right equipment and the Michelin teams didn't--may be. But the first Bridgestone tire on the grid was Michael's (7th), and Ferrari were the only team to object--not the Jordans, nor the Minardis who where at the back of the pack and knew they never had a chance of winning anything. I find this significant.

Ferrari haven't done well this year, their (righteous) adamant position at Indy gave them some chance to catch-up in the points standing--but who paid the price?

The thousands of fans, who had paid about $100--yes!
The millions of viewers--yes!
The advertizers who'd paid for something better--yes!
The future of F1 in the U.S.--yes!

Perhaps that explains Micheal's and Ruben's muted comments after the race. They have to follow the team orders.

We will have to see the outcome. If Michelin screwed-up. they deserve to pay the penalty in the marketplace. If it was simply Ferrari's attempt to gain a brief advantage, the marketplace should impose similar penalties on whoever screwed this up.

David N.
06-22-2005, 21:45
http://images10.fotki.com/v192/photos/3/377459/2337975/michletter-vi.jpg

epsylum
06-24-2005, 06:42
Originally posted by David N.
http://images10.fotki.com/v192/photos/3/377459/2337975/michletter-vi.jpg ;z

epsylum
06-28-2005, 21:08
It's official, Michelin is giving people's ticket money back. At least they were man enough to at least partly admit fault and take a step to make it up to the crowd.

They are also buying 20,000 tickets to next years USGP. Now who gets those tickets is unclear.

I am glad to not have to boycott them, because IMO Michelin makes the best road tires, no contest. Ask anyone who works with tires.