OODA loop and hand to hand [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MARTIN FISHER
07-07-2005, 16:31
We need to get this forum going.

How many of you use the OODA loop/cycle in your hand to hand training? If you do, how do you do it?

If you do not, why not?

Deputydave
07-07-2005, 19:01
Scenerio based training.

Roundeyesamurai
07-10-2005, 13:21
I don't specifically use the OODA loop; however, awareness training is a large part of the curriculum I teach.

A big problem of training awareness, is that the students are always at a somewhat heightened awareness level in the training environment- hence, you can't really "catch them in white" inside the dojo.

Hence, the training needs to center around other modes of awareness- get the students thinking about something for which they want to look, and then send them back out at the end of class looking for it. When they are looking, they are heightened. After awhile, they are constantly looking, so they are constantly heightened. Eventually, the act of looking comes as a habit, and the heightened awareness becomes a matter of habit as well.

The notion of "catching the students in white" is counterproductive- instead of instilling a constant awareness in the students, it instills an almost-paranoid level of nervous apprehension in them during training time, and after they leave, they relax, because they are glad that training is done for the evening, and they can "stand down".

MARTIN FISHER
07-10-2005, 21:17
Roundeye,

You are correct, the gotcha-type training really does little to improve a student.

DD,

Scenerio training is fine, as long as the trainee has not be versed on what to expect in the scenerio. It has been proven that a walk through or a dry run produces a false outcome in any test. The learning curve and problem identification of scenerio training is better when the scenerio is run with no warm up.

I was also thinking along the lines of when to disrupt the OODA loop of the attacker. Some attacks need to be stopped BEFORE any damage is done.

When I train someone, I tell them they should go with what their gut tells them to go with. Women especially need to overcome the fear of hurting some guys feelings. If your gut tells you something is wrong, get into condition orange or red and get to work or get away.

The ability to tell if someone else (attacker) is in an attack or pre-attack cycle is very improtant to inturrupting that cycle and surviving.

So, what do we teach are some of the markers of an attack cycle?

TED
07-11-2005, 15:46
I would like to say that the previous post are absolutely right on.
Especially regarding the negative impact of the aforementioned "caught ya sleeping" method.

I would also like to mention one practical application of the OODA loop, of sorts, some people are teaching pre-emptive striking in that if the bad guy is coming in on you, you don't need to feel obligated to wait until he throws the first strike.

It might be natural instinct to do so (to wait) but whoever makes the first strike has a definite advantage. Unfortunately this is ussually the criminal and often via ambush.

I got stabbed because I did not understand or know about this before. They narrowly missed the femoral artery which would have killed me. Learn from my mistake, don't wait to long or you might wait forever.

TED

MARTIN FISHER
07-13-2005, 10:02
Originally posted by TED
I would like to say that the previous post are absolutely right on.
Especially regarding the negative impact of the aforementioned "caught ya sleeping" method.

I would also like to mention one practical application of the OODA loop, of sorts, some people are teaching pre-emptive striking in that if the bad guy is coming in on you, you don't need to feel obligated to wait until he throws the first strike.

It might be natural instinct to do so (to wait) but whoever makes the first strike has a definite advantage. Unfortunately this is ussually the criminal and often via ambush.

I got stabbed because I did not understand or know about this before. They narrowly missed the femoral artery which would have killed me. Learn from my mistake, don't wait to long or you might wait forever.

TED

Thanks TED,

Tell us some of the pre-attack ques you did not interpet correctly in your incident. I have had attackers smile, offer a hand shake, or engage in converstaion, what happend with yours?

TED
07-13-2005, 12:51
You are asking me to tell you if I know what I didn't see, what I missed. I reallly can't. I just know I don't want to experience that again.

Edited for spelling.
TED

TED
07-13-2005, 12:56
I can tell you that just because their hands are down at their sidea and not up in fist, is NOT necessarily a good thing.

MARTIN FISHER
07-13-2005, 15:31
Ted, so was it just an attack with no indications at all?

TED
07-13-2005, 16:35
No, that is not the case. I just am not able to zero in on anything specific that I missed at the time, becasue I obviously missed a whole bunch. The biggest issue was the reactionary gap, and the complete disbelief or shock at what was happening, like no this can't be real.

TED