View Full Version : Bored with Beretta
I was a big fan of beretta, an armorer for them, and had a big collection. Couldn't wait for the next new model to come out.
Now they are usaing cheaper plastic bits and pieces, and the quality just stinks. I bought two neos pistols and sold both of them because the sights were so far off there wasn't enough adjustment to fix the problem.
Check out my tattoo, if that doesn't show loyalty to Beretta I don't know what does. However, Beretta needs to get back to making good guns with a little thing called QUALITY CONTROL.
This is just a rant, yes I'm bored, but there is no point in checking out berettaforum.net, as I'm sure there is nothing new over there.;P
Navy87Guy
07-09-2005, 15:22
Originally posted by cjwpdx
I was a big fan of beretta, an armorer for them, and had a big collection. Couldn't wait for the next new model to come out.
So does that mean you still have your collection, or did you get rid of that? I can understand your frustration when a quality gun maker seems to take a step backwards -- but I hope you didn't let that cause you to give up the examples of their previous good work.
I only have one Beretta - a 92G Vertec. It's a good gun and shoots well - but I can see where they've "cut corners". I'm not holding my breath for the PX4 or anything else from Beretta...I'll be content with one good gun from them that I enjoy shooting.
It seems like Beretta, of all the manufacturers, is really missing the boat when it comes to the US market. Their slowness, drop in quality, the increased use of plastic parts and, perhaps most of all, their refusal to make certain models available to the public (the G models are a perfect example) indicate that they aren't really interested in trying very hard. If they did, they could easily capture and hold a large part of the US gun buying market.
I still have my old Beretta firearms.
Yea they are loosing ground fast, one of these days thet are going to wake up and realize their L.E. sales are all but gone to Glock and the others.
Navy87Guy
07-09-2005, 19:49
And the ironic thing is that their LE models are popular -- but they won't sell them to the public!
It doesn't seem like it's that hard to figure out what makes a handgun popular. But Beretta seems to be going out of their way to ignore popular opinion. All they would have to do is go onto Beretta Forum once in a while and read what people say. I know the Steyr management does that on the Steyr Club site...all the way from Austria. You'd think BUSA could manage to do it from Maryland!
SchlaffTablett
07-10-2005, 13:13
I have the same tat without the outer circle and in Beretta blue. Even though I agree about them going cheaper, I still love them and I'm going to continue to collect them untill I have them all (at least 92s).
DonGlock26
07-10-2005, 19:53
If I was bored, I would try to hunt down a 8045 and a 9mm storm carbine, lots of goodies and fun from what I hear. That should keep one busy. The 8045 in SS intrigues me.^c
I'm not a Tat guy, but that TAT is way cool.
PlasticGuy
07-11-2005, 23:13
My first pistol was a Beretta 92fs. It wasn't anything fancy, but it was well made out of good metal. I liked it, but eventually sold it for some reason that probably made perfect sense at the time.
I bought a new 92fs Vertec about two years ago. When I started really looking it over, I realized that the trigger and the guide rod were plastic! I spent some money to put a steel guide rod and trigger in it, along with a D spring. Now it's a good gun. It still seems like a big step back from what I remember from 10-15 years ago though. I probably won't buy another.
Glockdude1
07-12-2005, 11:15
The only thing I have done to my beretta 92FS (bought new in 92) is to add a factory adjustable rear sight. What a difference!!
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=385050
;N
p01ic3m4n
07-12-2005, 15:10
i don't get these gripes about plastic parts. they are completely irrelevant. when the 92 came out, plastic wasn't as durable and advanced as it is now. you people are on a board solely dedicated to a plastic gun, but throwing a fit over a couple small parts in the beretta that are plastic. i owned a 96FS that was all metal. i now own a 92FS with plastic parts. i've never seen either of them jam, they have both been the most accurate guns i've ever owned, and the actions on both were the smoothest of any pistol i've seen. if anything, i think a few other serious gun makers should take some pointers from beretta.
i don't see how quality supposedly went down. the 96 that was made in the early 90s compared to my 92 that was made last year are almost identical. no rough edges, even finish, sights are dead on.
i am seeing more and more agencies dropping glocks for other weapons, beretta being one of them. compared to companies like colt, beretta has nothing to worry about.
The problem with plastic parts is that when you buy a plastic gun you know from the outset this is a one owner and likely less than a lifetime for that owner gun.
A 1911 platform with reasonable loads will last a lifetime of shooting and be repairable by the owner in most cases.
ALL other plastic based guns so far since they are proprietary designs are not repairable because there are no 3rd party source of parts for them. The 1911 is an open standard.
All metal proprietary guns face the same issue. However, I suspect a metal gun properly cared for will last a long time. I strongly suspect polymer even if cared for will eventually age and break even if not used faster than a metal gun.
My primary guns are glocks because of their features. They are not the guns I plan to leave to my heirs. They will be worn out, unable to be repaired or just plain broke in my lifetime. EVEN a glock I predict will eventually just break.
Glockdude1
07-19-2005, 20:22
Originally posted by Ulysses
EVEN a glock I predict will eventually just break.
True, but it takes thousands and thousands of rds to do it!!!
;N
How many of the plastic parts on Berettas have broken? The plastic guide rod gets less wear than the metal one. Berettas hasn't been in business for centuries for nothing. The quality is still there through and through. I have friends that have bought NIB Berettas with the plastic parts and they're all as reliable and accurate as any Berettas made with all metal parts.
Beretta marketing is a different story. Things that Beretta should make:
92FS with rail, the Vertec grip doesn't fit everyone.
"D" spring standard on all DA/SA and not just DAO
Polymer frame 92FS just to PO the purists.;f
Glockdude1
08-08-2005, 07:51
Originally posted by RAH
92FS with rail, the Vertec grip doesn't fit everyone.
Done. It is called the 92G-SD 9mm. 96G-SD in .40. Beretta MSRP $1175.
http://products.berettausa.com/images/92G-SD_S.jpg
;N
But they'd sell a lot more if it was a 92FS with that frame prices at $550.;f
Glockdude1
08-08-2005, 13:26
Originally posted by RAH
But they'd sell a lot more if it was a 92FS with that frame prices at $550.;f
I would buy it at the $550 price, not for the $1175 price......
;N
And what's the deal with that front end of the triggerguard?! Looks like a result of QC oversight.
Glockdude1
08-30-2005, 12:41
;)
GroovedG19
09-01-2005, 10:19
Nice tattoo, cjwpdx.
steyrboy
09-21-2005, 08:59
I think the real problem with Beretta is the same as the other manufacturers, "Let Glock have the product liability problems".
Selling to the LE and military markets lowers a manufacturers exposure to lawsuits. Most lawsuits stem from civilian sales.
That's why many traditional makers won't get into very expensive new product development because the lawsuits will absorb much of the potential profit.
Those markets could care less if the guns have corners cut as long as they function flawlessly and are affordable for the department budgets.
If you look at civilian handguns sales over the past 20 years, they have actually dropped. No other major industry has done the same thing. Can you imagine if car sales were at the same point or lower that 20 years ago? There would be panic on Wall Street.
Reality is, less Americans (compared to the overall population) are buying handguns. And traditional military/LE manufacturers are letting the non-military guys get the civilian market, like Ruger, Taurus, Kahr, Kel-Tec, Walther, S&W, and 1911 makers. In other words Beretta, Glock, SIG, HK make guns for military/LE customers and if they get civilian sales, great. Kahr, KelTec, Taurus, etc. get the scraps of the less profitable and legally vulnerable
civilian markets. The only exception is Glock because they own civilian handgun sales in the USA.
Jake Starr
09-21-2005, 10:58
Check out my tattoo, if that doesn't show loyalty to Beretta I don't know what does.
Maybe you should have gotten a Henna....;Q
Originally posted by PlasticGuy
I bought a new 92fs Vertec about two years ago. When I started really looking it over, I realized that the trigger and the guide rod were plastic! I spent some money to put a steel guide rod and trigger in it, along with a D spring. Now it's a good gun.
Just curious, but were the plastic parts causing problems, or did you just replace them on principal?
Originally posted by Ulysses
The problem with plastic parts is that when you buy a plastic gun you know from the outset this is a one owner and likely less than a lifetime for that owner gun.
A 1911 platform with reasonable loads will last a lifetime of shooting and be repairable by the owner in most cases.
ALL other plastic based guns so far since they are proprietary designs are not repairable because there are no 3rd party source of parts for them. The 1911 is an open standard.
All metal proprietary guns face the same issue. However, I suspect a metal gun properly cared for will last a long time. I strongly suspect polymer even if cared for will eventually age and break even if not used faster than a metal gun.
My primary guns are glocks because of their features. They are not the guns I plan to leave to my heirs. They will be worn out, unable to be repaired or just plain broke in my lifetime. EVEN a glock I predict will eventually just break.
Your "logic" is flawed. Guns are machines and machines will break and wear out from time to time. A Glock, just like any other firearm, will need to have parts replaced from time to time. If your plastic guide rod breaks, it is cheap and easy to repair.
If you buying guns to leave to the heirs, then don't bother shooting them. Just stick them in the safe and finger them every once in a while. ;Q
How is the new Px4 from a quality standpoint? I wouldn't mind having one some day.
Originally posted by bac1023
How is the new Px4 from a quality standpoint? I wouldn't mind having one some day.
I have posted a review in Non-Glock firearms.
Glock Yourself
10-12-2005, 09:54
Beretta should make a CX4 that uses Px4 magazines.
Originally posted by Glock Yourself
Beretta should make a CX4 that uses Px4 magazines.
According to the review I just read in one of the gun rags they are doing just that.
I bought the first PX4 (9mm) that my dealer got in day before yesterday and have about 120 rounds through it. It is such a far cry from what I had come to expect from Beretta I almost wondered if they really made it!
Low bore axis makes for very little muzzle flip; followup shots are easy. It is as accurate as my Glocks, and carries quite nicely. I am using a Milt Sparks IWB that was made for the Sig 229. I have another on order made for the Storm.
I think Beretta is aiming squarely at Glock's market and that they are going to achieve some success.
td.trmntr
10-12-2005, 13:31
I have owned and shot Berettas since 1987. My carry weapon is a Beretta 96 in .40 S&W. I have fired over 14,000 rounds through it and it is still going strong. In addition, it was on my hip on three separate occasions when I was robbed at gunpoint. It saved my butt all three times (three less armed robbers walking the streets). I wouldn't even consider carrying anything else. I agree some of their newer pistols do not meet the quality of the 92 and the 96, but overall, I am still sold on their quality. I just received my first PX4 today (.40 caliber) and find it to be an interesting pistol. I will let you know how it fires after the first 1000 rounds.
Glock Yourself
10-13-2005, 09:08
Originally posted by Hawkman
According to the review I just read in one of the gun rags they are doing just that.
I bought the first PX4 (9mm) that my dealer got in day before yesterday and have about 120 rounds through it. It is such a far cry from what I had come to expect from Beretta I almost wondered if they really made it!
Low bore axis makes for very little muzzle flip; followup shots are easy. It is as accurate as my Glocks, and carries quite nicely. I am using a Milt Sparks IWB that was made for the Sig 229. I have another on order made for the Storm.
I think Beretta is aiming squarely at Glock's market and that they are going to achieve some success.
In the review you read, did it say when Beretta expects to release these Cx4's that use Px4 magazines? Is it possible to modify a Cx4 that uses 96 type magazines into one that uses Px4 magazines?
No specifics on when it would be released. As to whether the CX4 can be modified, I guess a gunsmith would have to answer that.
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