PM9 or a Keltec P11

[kschilling]

I need some practical advise on each weapon. I've done all the research and have all the height, weight, length and width information. I need real world data. The goal of the purchase is to fill a void between my .380 and my G36 .45 ACP, which serve their purpose. I've heard of all the trouble with the PM9 and it causes me to question the quality control of a Kahr. I know, Keltic isn't any better. They both need improvement. Thanks for the time with this issue.

[tabor-pm-9]

Originally posted by kschilling
I've heard of all the trouble with the PM9 and it causes me to question the quality control of a Kahr. I know, Keltic isn't any better. They both need improvement. Thanks for the time with this issue.

I made the same discission and got the PM9. I was then very dissapointed to find that mine had a few FTB's. Kahr sent me a new recoil spring and guide rod assembly and everything has been fine since.

With that said, the P11 might be a fine pistol, but I didn't like the idea of doing the factory's work for them (Fluff and Buff) before the gun would function correctly.

PS - How is the P3AT? How is the reliability? I was thinking about getting one.

[srfl]

Originally posted by tabor-pm-9
(SNIP) PS - How is the P3AT? How is the reliability? I was thinking about getting one.

Like the P11, you may or may not want to do a F&B on the gun for it to be reliable.....my P3AT didn't need one.

Some issues: The trigger pull on the P3AT is looooooooong. The rudimentary sights makes it a little difficult to shoot good groups beyond 7 yards and shooting good defensive loads (like Corbon's 90 grain JHP) in such a light and small gun will guarantee a handful of recoil.....despite those issues, it's a good shooter, easy to port around in a pocket holster and, as such, a gun that you can have with you all day long.

[kschilling]

Tabor-pm-9: I agree with srfl.

My P3AT is a charm. It comes along on jogging trips and any other incident which doesn't allow me to carry my G36. As for shooting?
Yeah..... the trigger is long. I've spent some time with mine. I can keep 6 rounds in the size of my fist t center mass. Anything past 7 yeards is worthless.

As for F&B? Yep.... I did mine and it hasn't had any problems since. I fire Golddot ammo only. I'm not a believer in Corbon.

[Michigun]

I owned a Kel-Tec P-11 for a while… I definitely had to work with mine quite a bit to get it up to 100% & even then it was ammo picky. (Not a big deal though as it liked the ammo I liked & I had fun getting her up to 100%.) My 2 biggest complaints about the P-11 was its long, HEAVY, non-smooth trigger pull (it REALLY is terrible) & the P-11’s felt recoil… when comparing the P-11 side-by-side with the G26 (PM9 wasn’t out yet… in fact the P9 was just coming out) I owned at the time, with the exact same ammo, the P-11’s recoil was quite a big more. So much more it was surprising! I ended up choosing the G26 over the P-11… later on I chose the PM9 over the G26.

FYI, I’m no Kel-Tec basher as I’ll never sell my P-32, LOVE that little gun! ^c (Pan on picking up another P-32 & been keeping my eye out for a P3AT to give a try.)

In short, Kel-Tec P-11 -vs- Kahr PM9? It’s gotta be a PM9… or better yet a P9 Covert! ;f

[seed]

My buddy is a certified KT junkie...even though he only has two KT's. But he is obsessed with them and totally enjoys putting in the work himself to get it running exactly the way he likes it (mostly his FG P3AT). He has been a big booster for me to get one that is already in Kali (he lives in Nevada and I live in Kali). It's like a project gun about which we would have a lot to communicate. I understand the support from Kel Tec is great and they have quite a fan base at a couple of different boards on the net.

In fact, my friend enjoys working on his FG so much and is so pleased with all he has learned from doing so, that he is almost disappointed that SG's seem to work pretty well right out of the box. You see, Kel Tecs are so inexpensive and the support is so fantastic (they don't frown on you doing your own work), that he wasn't afraid to learn on it. Now his confidence is up and he is considering doing work on at least one other non-KT he owns.

That said, I have a PM9 and am currently waiting for them to return my correct-sized recoil assembly (long story). I have yet to finalize my opinion on it.

[GirlWithGlock]

Originally posted by seed
That said, I have a PM9 and am currently waiting for them to return my correct-sized recoil assembly (long story). I have yet to finalize my opinion on it.
Seed...I'd love to hear how you would rate Kahr's customer service when your issue is resolved to your satisfaction. :) Please let us know.

[Ford]

before I bougt my first PM9 I was also looking at the Kel-Tech. I went with the Kahr mainly because of the trigger and I thought it was a better made pistol. I love my PM9 and it seems I have made the right choice. I have not got to shoot my 2nd PM9 yet but I hope it is as good as the first one.

[seed]

Seed...I'd love to hear how you would rate Kahr's customer service when your issue is resolved to your satisfaction. Please let us know.

I will.

[dkochan]

I would buy the Kahr PM9 if you can afford it because it is smaller, more concealable and has a smoother trigger than Keltec P11. FYI: my PM9 has been totally reliable and very accurate.

[Wilson 17&26]

I have a couple of Second-Generation P-3ATs and a bunch of First-Generation P-3ATs. I prefer the FGs but they are getting very hard to find as manufacturing of them stopped in February. Either will handle hot ammo but a finger extension may be helpful when firing more than a dozen rounds during a range session.

(click to enlarge)
http://www.wilson-genealogy.com/pics/sghcb-fghcgs.jpg (http://www.wilson-genealogy.com/pics/sghcb-fghcg.jpg)

[seed]

Wilson, why do you prefer the FG's?

[Wilson 17&26]

Originally posted by seed
Wilson, why do you prefer the FG's? The First-Generation P-3AT weighs 7.3oz and the Second-Generation P-3AT weighs 8.3oz according to Kel-Tec brochures. The increase in weight may actually help some folks that have a tendency to limpwrist lightweight pistols but I prefer the lighter weight in a pocket pistol.

The SG design has fewer parts and is easier to field strip for cleaning. But I don’t like the add-on look of the Allen screw (aka Frankenstein Bolt). This Allen screw replaces both the extractor pin and the firing pin screw of the old design. I see a potential problem with this simpler design. With heavy use of hot ammo, I believe this screw may work loose and if it does, you will have failures to extract. A bit of blue Loctite will likely fix it but replacing or cleaning the firing pin or firing pin spring will then be a bear.

[seed]

Originally posted by Wilson 17&26
A bit of blue Loctite will likely fix it but replacing or cleaning the firing pin or firing pin spring will then be a bear.

I read somewhere (on one of the gun boards...I can't remember which) that clear nail polish (or some such sort of item) will work also...but it won't be near as difficult to remove the screw. I have never tried it myself, but I may to keep the grip screws in my Kahr MK40.

[Wilson 17&26]

I use only a minimal amount of blue Loctite on the upper threads (don’t want it to rundown on the firing pin). For removal with this small amount of blue Loctite, heating it with a hair dryer is usually sufficient for removal.

If you don’t use a thread dressing, be sure to have a 2mm Allen wrench in your range bag :)

[vbkahr]

I have both a PM9 and a P11. The jury is still out on the PM9, I am still breaking it in after getting it back from Kahr(there is another thread on this). The P11 has worked without any problems. I have about 250 rounds through it. The trigger, though, is long. It is not a very comfortable gun to shoot, even if you limit your range time with it to 50 rounds a session. But it has never failed to go bang. Also have a P3AT, but that one had to be sent back for a broken extractor.

[seed]

Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
Seed...I'd love to hear how you would rate Kahr's customer service when your issue is resolved to your satisfaction. :) Please let us know.

Well, an update. I had sent off the assembly a while ago. I can't remember exactly when, but my original post about it was on July 11...and it had been sent before then. Anyway, I waited and waited and finally called Kahr and left a message (about 2-3 days ago). The next day, I got a message from Dottie (I was busy sleeping off my graveyard shift). I woke up early enough to call her back and so I did. Having her extension, I got right through. I explained my problem (which would have been obvious if she had my assembly in front of her along with a PM9 slide...but I don't think she did). She seemed...well, skeptical of all things. She was nice, but bewildered and skeptical...like what I was describing could not be possible. I assured her it was and she kind of laughed about it and then assured me that they would send me a new assembly...again she expressed her dismay, but in the end gave me the benefit of the doubt.

Well all's well that ends well. We shall see how this one ends, but so far the water is a bit muddy. I await my assembly for still longer...Why hadn't they sent me one by now? I couldn't tell you. My only fear now is that I will get it back and something else will be wrong with it, and or my gun as a whole with this assembly installed. And then I will have to be credible once again.

[mayneattraction]

I purchased a Kahr PM 9 a month ago. I've only had the time to put 70 rounds through it. I've had 2 FTE's but I'm sure it was due to limp wristing, because after each of the 2 FTE's, I gripped the pistol harder and no problem.

The Kahr PM 9 is an excellent pistol and after the 200+ break in rounds, I'll trust my life to it!

P.S., where can I get those finger extensions for my p3at?