View Full Version : Got PM9 Back From Kahr Today....
GirlWithGlock 07-11-2005, 23:37 ....and it's still a POS. According to Kahr, they "polished the barrel hood, polished the feed ramp, and replaced recoil spring". After 200 MORE rounds (Winchester White Box - 115 gr. FMJ), it's still as bad as it was before. But Kahr says there is no problem with the gun.
I had two others (besides myself) shooting the pistol today that had all of the same problems I was having. (If the person I was shooting with tonight wants to comment on this, I'm sure he could explain things much better than I can.) Either way, still failure to feed, jamming one after another. A few misfires, failure to return to battery, even problems with the slide locking in a 3/4 position - what the hell is that???? Even locked in this position when there was no magazine in the gun. Here's a pic:
http://savage.aaapowerhost.com/Images/carla/SlideLock.jpg
In the last 50 rounds it was a chore to get even one single round to feed properly. And when it did jam, I had to remove the magazine which was very difficult to do, and it was difficult to get the slide to fully lock so that I could attempt to chamber another round, which in turn failed to feed yet again.
We interchanged springs, slides, frames, etc. from another PM9 that works perfectly and still had all of these problems. Even his slide, spring and barrel on my frame caused problems. My slide, spring, and barrel on his frame had all the same problems. This gun obviously has issues, I don't know how Kahr can say it's fine.
All of you who are considering buying the PM9, please read what has been posted on this forum. There are people that have had great experiences and there are people who have had very challenging experiences. It seems to be a crap shoot as to whether you get a good one or a lemon. I'm selling lemonade...
Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
(If the person I was shooting with tonight wants to comment on this, I'm sure he could explain things much better than I can.) Either way, still failure to feed, jamming one after another. A few misfires, failure to return to battery, even problems with the slide locking in a 3/4 position - what the hell is that???? Even locked in this position when there was no magazine in the gun.
;z blond. Worked 100% for me. ;f
Just kidding.... There is something definitely wrong with the gun. I have a trouble free PM9. Both guns looked the same and we switched out GWG's upper on my frame but still had the problems. I even put my recoil spring in her gun, but that was not it either. Tried different mags and different ammo. When I shot it, I didn't have any misfires, but had lots of feeding issues, double feeds, and a slide that would lock 3/4 the way back. I only was there at the end when the problems started occurring, so I did not see how it functioned early on. Unfortunately, I think it needs to go back to Kahr.
For the record I love my PM, so I think GWG just got a problematic one.
It is disappointing to see this. What is even more difficult to see is the lack of consistency. I would hope that whatever process Kahr uses for manufacturing and assembly is repeatable and consistent. Based on your problems (and others), it does not appear to be so.
I have heard great things about Kahr's customer support and although you should not have to test it, I would "hope" that they will take care of you. What does your dealer say? Did Kahr say they fired it before shipping it back? My local Kahr dealer would be the middleman on all this - but every dealer is different.
I have had my PM9 for about 30 days now and it fires everything I run through it. Winchester white box, Remington JHP, Federal Hyrashok +P+. The only thing I have to be careful of is making sure that I let the spring/slide travel the full length of the rail to chamber the first round (slam the first round in). If I try to ease the first round in by "gently" releasing the slide, it will hang every time. But someone told me that is the nature of the gun and is normal.
I am certainly not trying to rub salt in your wounds but I am very pleased with my PM9 and would purchase another. I suggest you call Kahr back and ask to have them pick up the shipping since this has been since a hassel for you.
Keep us posted.
GirlWithGlock 07-12-2005, 00:21 Originally posted by goblue
;z blond. Worked 100% for me. ;f
You're SO not cool. ;i
I am certainly not trying to rub salt in your wounds but I am very pleased with my PM9 and would purchase another.
WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!! Mine's for sale!! ;f
GirlWithGlock 07-12-2005, 00:29 Originally posted by BKG-22
What does your dealer say? Did Kahr say they fired it before shipping it back? My local Kahr dealer would be the middleman on all this - but every dealer is different.
The dealer says too bad, so sad, we don't take returns, you're stuck with it. Kahr claims they ran 15 magazines through it.
As for the local Kahr dealer, just got his number today. I can't decide who will get my first call tomorrow morning - him or Dottie at Kahr Customer Service.
Roundeyesamurai 07-12-2005, 00:40 I've normally been very happy with Kahr; however, this is reprehensible.
tabor-pm-9 07-12-2005, 00:45 Originally posted by goblue
For the record I love my PM, so I think GWG just got a problematic one.
For the record I don't love my PM9, but my Walther P99 doesn't fit in my pocket. Also for the record, my PM9 works fine, but I don't think I will recommend Kahr to my friends and relatives after GWG's experiences.
One persons bitter apples is another person's apple pie.
Any mass produced item will have factory rejects. Kahr has been good about fixing their problems and trying to do right by the customer. I'm not saying that I don't believe GWG, but we are getting only one side to the story. Kahr hasn't posted a reply to all of her post in Glocktalk regarding her PM9.
I would still recommend a Kahr PM9 to anyone that wants a small, accurate, concealable firearm. Mine has been dependable for me and goes BANG every time I pull the trigger.
Sorry to hear about your troubles GWG, at least you don't own my POS Ford truck. :)
Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I can't decide who will get my first call tomorrow morning - him or Dottie at Kahr Customer Service.
I'd call Dottie and be nice and tell the same story you've related here. I'd bet you get a new slide. She's there to solve problems and is very good at it.
GirlWithGlock 07-12-2005, 10:14 A perfectly working PM9 slide was used on my frame yesterday. Had all the same problems.
Dottie hasn't really done much for me. I apologize to all of you Dottie lovers (I know there are a lot of you!)...but she did nothing for me except tell me my gun was fine when it wasn't. We talked to Stefan this morning from Kahr, he was horrified to hear of my situation. Sounds like I may be getting a new gun. Wish I would have contacted this guy the first time.
GirlWithGlock 07-12-2005, 10:30 Originally posted by BikerRN
I'm not saying that I don't believe GWG, but we are getting only one side to the story. Kahr hasn't posted a reply to all of her post in Glocktalk regarding her PM9.
Goblue backed that there is definitely something wrong with it. I told you what they told me; it fired fine for them. Either way, Stefan said it's ridiculous I had to go through what I did and confirmed that I can have a replacement Kahr of my choice. Now I know what you all were talking about when you said Kahr has excellent customer service.
Wow! If there giving you the Kahr of your choice, you should take an MK9 Elite 2003! Acutally, they probably don't include the Elite models in the offer. In any event, I would still go with an MK9. Same size package as your PM9 but quite likely to be malfunction free.
Good luck.
GWG, now I understand why you are curious about my experience with Kahr customer service... I'm a bit nervous right now. I can't wait to get back my recoil assembly and try it out. Like I said in the other thread, I'll fill you in on my final assessment of their service when it's all over.
As for the suggestion by jmb79 to get an all steel replacement, that is something to consider.
Michigun 07-12-2005, 13:09 Maybe this time a P9 Covert GirlWithGlock?
AZ Traveler 07-12-2005, 13:19 The Major factor on getting an Elite is... Do they have any in Stock?
When they replaced my K40 Covert, I requested an MK40 Elite but received a MK40 with Night Sights because it was available. I would have liked the Elite but I am happy with my MK40 and the night sights are good.
Also do not send your magazines back if you are getting a MK9. Your PM9 mags will work in your MK9 and the new firearm will come with 2 new mags. This way you will have extra mags.
I also agree with Michigun about the P9 Covert. The Covert also uses the same mags as the PM9
Good Luck and patience. It took about 2 to 2.5 weeks to get my replacement.
plumbum2 07-12-2005, 13:21 they just need to except the fact that their product isnt always 100% reliable depending on the tolerances of a certain gun.
thats why the pm9 is on my "list"
pm9
keltec autos
all i can think of right now, but on every single forum all you ever see is, "having problems with my kahr(keltec)".
you dont constantly see these posts with a g17,1911, ect.ect.
I'd take whatever replacement Kahr gives you and sell it without shooting it. I don't think you'd ever be completely happy with anything from them, nor would you fully trust it.
(Former PM9 owner)
GirlWithGlock 07-12-2005, 18:28 STEFAN ROCKS THE HOUSE!!!!!
Kahr may not be so bad after all...
Alright...Stefan from Kahr has restored my faith in this company. There IS good customer service to be found within this company, you just have to look for it. :) I trust this guy so much, I'm trying another PM9 that he is going to do all the "fluffing and buffing" on, not to mention add night sites to it at no cost. He's even going to do a little work on the trigger for me. (This gun does NOT have a comfy trigger in my opinion.) He paid to have SW ship it FedEx Overnight Priority so that he could get things done soon enough for him to get my new PM9 shipped out by Friday. Now THIS guy goes above and beyond for his customers. I'm very impressed. Even said if I'm not happy with this one, he'll replace it again. He said his goal was to do whatever would make me happy and want to own a Kahr handgun.
Oh, and speaking of impressive...FedEx had already picked up at SW when we were there today, so SW shipped it overnight by DHL on their dime, so that it could still get sent out today. Now that's what I'm talking about. Both of these companies have REALLY stepped up to the plate to help me out when it was well deserved.
Talked to a gunsmith about the gun, showed him what it was doing. He said it's doing exactly what the recall barrels were doing. It was actually creating a "ledge" that was catching on the slide, which was causing it to stop 3/4 of the way back. I've got to run but I'll write more later! :)
Good for you, GWG! Stephan, Dottie, whoever - customer service is top notch at Kahr. They're not happy until you are. You may have caught Dottie before her second cup of coffee, she's top notch as well. I spoke to her a few minutes one day and jokingly told her she was infamous on the internet. She replied she was hired to do one thing - fix all problems and make the customer happy. I'm sure Stephan has the same job description.
The product and the excellent customer service makes it win/win with Kahr. I'm happy to hear they're taking care of you. Excellent customer service is becoming oh-so rare.
10 Ring Tao 07-12-2005, 19:32 The guy who put 'ran 15 magazines through it' on the paperwork needs to have his head examined.
Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
The dealer says too bad, so sad, we don't take returns, you're stuck with it. Kahr claims they ran 15 magazines through it.
As for the local Kahr dealer, just got his number today. I can't decide who will get my first call tomorrow morning - him or Dottie at Kahr Customer Service.
This is the way ALL dealers around here are. No returns, no refunds, no credit, no nothing. I'm sorry that you got such a horrible gun, but I DO know how you feel and I also know that this is a much too frequent thing nowadays.
Might I suggest a small tube of K-Y upon your next visit to the above-mentioned shop? (if you ever go back there again).
Kahr's stubborn attitude saying "nothing is wrong" is also reminiscent of my final episode with SigArms.
I really feel for you and I hope that you can get some satisfaction out of this deal here.
GirlWithGlock 07-12-2005, 20:03 Originally posted by Michigun
Maybe this time a P9 Covert GirlWithGlock?
Michigun...nobody had a P9 Covert that I could look at. Not one place. We called all over and nobody had one on hand.
GirlWithGlock 07-12-2005, 20:07 Originally posted by 10 Ring Tao
The guy who put 'ran 15 magazines through it' on the paperwork needs to have his head examined.
I want to know how many rounds were in each magazine. Technically it could have been only 15 rounds all together. ;i
ppcrusa...I think things will be taken care of now. The gun is being replaced by Kahr, thank goodness. I'm going to be very careful of where I buy my guns from in the future.
Sounds like Kahr is doing the right thing and will make things right with you. Somehow I sense that you will have the best running PM in town as I'm sure it won't leave the factory until is is flawless. I'm glad that there is a resolution to all this, even though the process has not been easy.
Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I want to know how many rounds were in each magazine. Technically it could have been only 15 rounds all together. ;i
ppcrusa...I think things will be taken care of now. The gun is being replaced by Kahr, thank goodness. I'm going to be very careful of where I buy my guns from in the future.
When you get a bad gun it makes you wonder if somebody else "test drove" it before you bought it doesn't it?
I know with all the various pistols, revolvers and even rifles and shotguns when I get a bad one I immediately question the SOURCE. It's so hit and miss these days. I even bought a dreaded Kel-Tec P3AT(mostly because so many mixed reviews). While I have not really accuracy tested it, the little thing runs 100% reliable.No broken stuff. The worst thing I have seen is low rust resistance.
At any rate, I do hope the PM9 that is sent runs 100% and is a good one for you. Pistols are expensive enough without adding frustration to the mix. Sounds good though what Kahr is doing for you. Let us know how it turns out.
...now, about that PM9 you had for sale..........
;f
GirlWithGlock 07-12-2005, 21:05 Originally posted by BKG-22
...now, about that PM9 you had for sale..........
;f
I do believe it will be melted down and made into some garden figurine or a paper weight for the factory. ;i
coverdog 07-13-2005, 00:26 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I do believe it will be melted down and made into some garden figurine or a paper weight for the factory. ;i
No, they will try and fix it and then send it out as a replacement gun to a different customer.
GWG;
Glad to hear that Kahr is taking care of you. I knew I was right when I said Kahr trys to take care of their customers. That's why I like the company and why I want to buy another Kahr.
Let us know how the replacement PM9 works for you.
Michigun 07-13-2005, 05:53 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
Michigun...nobody had a P9 Covert that I could look at. Not one place. We called all over and nobody had one on hand.
I was talking about as a replacement gun from Kahr instead of another PM9. ^c
plumbum2 07-13-2005, 09:16 now days. in situations like this kahr, and other manufacturers without a huge leo/military base cant afford not to go above and beyond.
with the internet,it doesnt take long for information to spread...
GirlWithGlock 07-13-2005, 10:54 G33...it is a bummer. I'd like to be carrying it already. It's no fun to buy something that's already broken. :( But at least they are finally going to take care of it. I'm just happy to be getting the gun replaced.
coverdog...Sweet. I'll have to check if mine looks overly used. ;i At this point, I just want it to work.
Biker...I definitely trust Stefan. He wants nothing less than a 100% satisfied customer.
Michigun...I would have considered the P9 Covert, but I won't buy something that I can't see and hold and make sure it's comfy for me, and I couldn't find one to fondle first. ;)
plumbum2...So true about the internet. Nowadays companies really have to make sure their customer is happy or it can really hurt them, word travels fast when you don't back your product.
They should have just replaced it with a new one in the first place. I'm glad to see they are doing this for you.
Dude, sorry for your experience. My PM9 eats everything I feed it, and looks for more. Not 'limp wristing', are ya? In that if you allow excessive movement to the rear during recoil you are taking energy away from the action and slide. My son had that trouble until it was recognized and cured. We took him to the shaman, the holy land of "don't do that" and he's been shoot'n it like a champ ever since, about 1500 rounds worth...
GirlWithGlock 07-13-2005, 11:44 Originally posted by Daynja
They should have just replaced it with a new one in the first place. I'm glad to see they are doing this for you.
My thought exactly, but apparently they found nothing wrong with it the first time.
tuts...not limp wristing. I've had several others shoot the gun with same problems. One of them being a very happy PM9 owner himself.
denfoote 07-13-2005, 14:35 Yesseree!!!
I was in the possible market for a plastic, oops POLYMER, Kahr!!
I even went into the same major sporting goods chain and handled one!! ;Q
Now, I think I'm gunna give our friends in New York, some more time to; A) work the bugs out of the production process; and, B) improve the lapses in their customer service!!
It's to durn bad!! I was begining to warm up to the little fella!! ;)
GirlWithGlock 07-13-2005, 18:01 denfoote...hold off on calling it a no-go for sure. I'll let you know how mine new one turns out. :)
Michigun 07-13-2005, 20:18 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
Michigun...I would have considered the P9 Covert, but I won't buy something that I can't see and hold and make sure it's comfy for me, and I couldn't find one to fondle first. ;)
The nice thing about the Covert is if ya can't find one you can see nearly EXACTLY how it feels by picking up a PM9! ^c
(The Covert does balance a hair differently then the PM9, but the grips sure feel the same seeing how there are.)
I had an issue with a P9 slide not completely engaging with the frame a few months ago and Stefan paid the freight back and forth to the factory and the gun ran fine after I got it back.
I recently put 100 rounds through it and used it during one of our IDPA practices with no problems and great accuracy.
Give them the chance to do the right thing.
denfoote 07-14-2005, 06:15 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
denfoote...hold off on calling it a no-go for sure. I'll let you know how mine new one turns out. :)
I dunno, GWG.
I've just about had my fill with involuntarily beta testing products for gun makers who should know better!!
I jumped on the Taurus PT-145 bandwagon, a few years back, and got burned. ;Q
I had a KT P3AT, first generation, that had to be replaced (they stamped a new frame, so it WAS a new gun they sent back to me) before it worked right!!
Don't even get me started on the High Point (1st gen, NIB) that lies buried somewhere in the vast Sonoran desert!!!
My point is, I decided that I'm gunna wait till ALL the bugs get worked out of a new gun before I plop my hard earned cash on the counter, from now on!! ;)
GirlWithGlock 07-14-2005, 10:03 I hear ya...it sucks to get burned; especially when it's more than once.
I'm keeping an open mind because like others have said, there is going to be a lemon or two (or several) in any mass-produced product. As long as the company stands behind their product and makes it right no matter what, everything will be okay. :)
justtalking 07-14-2005, 13:04 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I hear ya...it sucks to get burned; especially when it's more than once.
I'm keeping an open mind because like others have said, there is going to be a lemon or two (or several) in any mass-produced product. As long as the company stands behind their product and makes it right no matter what, everything will be okay. :)
Just amazing! I have owned 3 glocks in the last 3 years and I have never never never had one porblem. They just shoot and shoot. I just bought a Kel tec p-32, and I did a f&b and it even shoots great as long as you clean it every time.
I hope you stick with a glock. A g27 is a small gun. Get a 9mm or 40 cal. You would never have a problem with it. Go with the best. Why put yourself all this crap!! Guns are suppose to be fun. Good luck.
GirlWithGlock 07-14-2005, 14:17 Originally posted by justtalking
Just amazing! I have owned 3 glocks in the last 3 years and I have never never never had one porblem. They just shoot and shoot. I just bought a Kel tec p-32, and I did a f&b and it even shoots great as long as you clean it every time.
I hope you stick with a glock. A g27 is a small gun. Get a 9mm or 40 cal. You would never have a problem with it. Go with the best. Why put yourself all this crap!! Guns are suppose to be fun. Good luck.
I agree, the Glocks are the shiznit!! ;) I absolutely love mine. And when Glock comes out with something quite a bit smaller, I will own one for summer carry. :) (Why haven't they, btw???)
Nice to see you, justtalking!!! :)
UPDATE!!!
Talked to Stefan, my gun will ship out this afternoon!! :cool:
Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I agree, the Glocks are the shiznit!! ;) I absolutely love mine. And when Glock comes out with something quite a bit smaller, I will own one for summer carry. :) (Why haven't they, btw???)
I just talked to a rep last Saturday and said that very thing. He sort of blinked and gave me the impression that either he is out of the loop or Glock has no plans to make something comparable in size to the PM9. I told him that A LOT of people would buy them if they did. More blinking.
I guess we're stuck with Kahr, Kel Tec and Rohrbaugh for now.
Just amazing! I have owned 3 glocks in the last 3 years and I have never never never had one porblem. They just shoot and shoot. I just bought a Kel tec p-32, and I did a f&b and it even shoots great as long as you clean it every time.
Not to insight anyone on this board, but I would like to make it a point that we should not descredit Kahr too much here. My dealings with Kahr have always resulted in immediate action from Kahr and in dealing with GWG gun, Dottie was on it within minutes. Now the 3 alleged guys who fired the 15 magazines proving the gun was within spec, those guys are getting a thorough re-evaluation themselves. I think there are a few sloppy people within Kahr that are giving us headaches and from what I hear they are being taken care of. I would like to hear of any other instances where the gun manufacturer was so quick in taking care of the customers.
There are many Kahr owners who have had 100% satisfaction with their Kahrs and there are many owners who have had bad Glocks http://aritah.com/showthread.php?threadid=107305
Some ask why go through the headaches for the Kahr, which is valid, the answer can only be that they are so appealing to some of us that we are willing to try. So, why would someone who owns a G27 want a Kahr? Maybe the G27 owner realized the gun was too fat and heavy to conceal in light close, or maybe they wanted another gun with innovative design. I gave up my Sigma after a few failures because to me it just wasnt all that great, but for the Kahr I was willing to withstand the aggravation and now I am glad that I did. I am planning to buy the wife one as well, but hers will have the pretty non DLC stainless slide.
GirlWithGlock 07-14-2005, 17:05 seed...I would buy one in a heartbeat!!
Wod, you said..."Maybe the G27 owner realized the gun was too fat and heavy to conceal in light close..."
That's exactly why I wanted a PM9. (Only change the G27 to the G23.) In really hot weather I want to wear as little clothes as necessary and still be able to carry. With the Glock that's really hard to do. Even the "baby Glocks" are too wide for this reason.
I know Dottie had nothing to do with the gun except passing on the bad information. Unfortunately she's the one that gets blamed in that situation, as I don't know who the "three guys" were, or they'd be hearing from me instead of Dottie. All I know is that Stefan has a special place in heaven waiting for him. ;f Because of him, I would purchase future Kahrs, knowing that Stefan makes sure Kahr customers are happy customers.
I'd never give up my Glock for the PM9, but I'll be very happy owning both.
justtalking 07-14-2005, 17:27 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I agree, the Glocks are the shiznit!! ;) I absolutely love mine. And when Glock comes out with something quite a bit smaller, I will own one for summer carry. :) (Why haven't they, btw???)
Nice to see you, justtalking!!! :)
UPDATE!!!
Talked to Stefan, my gun will ship out this afternoon!! :cool:
It comes down to this. I guess your gun is smaller. But with the problems you have had, are you willing to trust it 100% with your son and daughters life?? Answer that question and it will answer all the other questions on which gun to carry?? And I don't give a &&^%%$#$ what anyone else tells you about how wonderful this gun is and how great the service. You didn't get first time quality or service. I think your Hubby is a quality engineer if I remember correctly. Ask him what he thinks of first time quality. You answer this question honestly because someday you may have to live with your choice for the rest of your life.
I'm for glock, but that is me because I have had 100% reliabitity. I can say I would trust it so save by families life without question.
I can live with it being a little bulkier. I can't live with less than 100% assurance it will fire everytime. I've fired 3,000 + rounds without one problem.
You decide. Remember, lives could depend it. Screw the loyality bit etc. If glock failed me, I'd move on. Don't get soft and mushy.
You didn't get a CCW and pay big bucks to screw around with a gun that may or may not work. I wish glock made a gun that was thinner, but that's second place in my mind.
Good luck, nice to talk to you again. You always have something interesting going on in this webb site. I'm going in the hot tub and have a cigar. You have my mind a wasted for now.
Thanks for keeping the site interesting.
Gary
incursion 07-14-2005, 18:08 I just got my PM9 back from Kahr as well. My original one was shooting way high and the accuracy seemed to be spotty.
I need to do some more testing, but I believe the problems have been fixed. The accuracy is a lot better and it only seems slightly high, but I could be pulling it. Stefen put a front night sight on it for free at my request. I'm impressed with Kahr's customer service.
Michigun 07-14-2005, 20:53 justtalking, I know this is a public place & all but honestly, why are ya hanging out in the “Kahr Club”? You’re obviously not a fan... have you ever even fired a Kahr? (You being in the “Tri Cities” area we’re probably neighbors... you’re more then welcome to shoot one of mine sometime.)
I’m a GLOCK man myself (as you can probably see in my profile), but the GLOCK ain’t no Kahr & the Kahr ain’t no GLOCK... my Kahr(s) can do things my GLOCK(s) can’t & the other way around.
Besides personally being on my 7th trouble free Kahr I haven’t actually personally seen/handled a truly problematic Kahr yet & I see/handle a lot of them.
By the way, my main CCW gun is my G34... carry it all year long. My Kahr is for pocket carrying, which isn’t my 1st choice mod of carrying a defensive weapon, but we do what we have to do to carry all of the time... all of my other handguns are just for fun/backup.
justtalking 07-14-2005, 22:24 As far as not being a fan, you are dead wrong. I have no feelings one way or the other because it is a Kahr, but when I read all the problems you Kahr owners are having, it seems the only question should be, as I stated beore, are you willing to trust your life to that pistol that you have had major problems with it and the great service seems not to be there. You can argue 24/7 about how you personally love the gun, love the size and love Dottie but if Carla is experiencing such a nightmare then lets not forget why we carry a gun. Any Gun. It is protect your life and your familes life.
If it ever comes to that and the damn thing fails, glock, kahr or whatever, I'm sure you all will feel sorry, but she has to live with that choice the rest of her life. Just trying to keep that in her mind.
If your gun is for shooting at the range, who cares. If it is a carry gun you better care. This is not a troll post. If my Glock starts to have major failings, I will go looking for another brand. Would you want to accept anything less than perfect if you flew an airplane. Gee we get a few lemons.Sorry. All it takes is one. We are talking about life and death in both planes and ccw guns. Glad you are having good luck with your Kahr's. Read all the post on this tread. Alot of people are not having your luck.
There are a lot of comments I can make, justtalking, but I guess it will be wasted effort. You are clearly not a fan, but I trust that those that use and rely on Kahrs are responsible and reasonable enough to make an informed decision on their own. For the others that own a Kahr or are thinking about one, my feeling is this: There is a chance that the next time I pull my trigger on my Glock it will have a malfunction. Same goes for my Kahr. I do everything I can to minimize that chance (cleaning, maintenance, training) and I have confidence in both tools. For many the Glock is a tradeoff of capacity over the reliability of a revolver. Like I said, informed tradeoffs.
justtalking 07-14-2005, 23:01 Originally posted by goblue
There are a lot of comments I can make, justtalking, but I guess it will be wasted effort. You are clearly not a fan, but I trust that those that use and rely on Kahrs are responsible and reasonable enough to make an informed decision on their own. For the others that own a Kahr or are thinking about one, my feeling is this: There is a chance that the next time I pull my trigger on my Glock it will have a malfunction. Same goes for my Kahr. I do everything I can to minimize that chance (cleaning, maintenance, training) and I have confidence in both tools. For many the Glock is a tradeoff of capacity over the reliability of a revolver. Like I said, informed tradeoffs.
your wrong. I owned a Kahr. Nothing against them.
But you missed the entire point. It's good to know the trade off's. it's great to have the training but you better have reliability of whatever gun you carry. And you better know it is reliable. That's all. None of this they were nice to me, it's a pretty gun, I can carry it in my cuttoffs etc. Does the damn thing go bang every time. And have you proven it to your self over and over and over.
Are you accurate with it. This is not about Karh's vs. Glocks. It's about trusting you life and your families to any gun and why do you?
We are on the same wave length. Your feeling it is about Kahr's. No, it's about making a logical decision about any gun that is having major malfunctions right out of the box. And getting the ROYAL run around And thinking I might try it again because......(insert reason here). I may be preaching but I almost had to use my Glock this winter and I'm thankful I did not have to in the end. But I trusted my life to that gun. I just want GWG to carry their brand of gun for the right reasons. Not because 50 other emails love their Kahr.
GirlWithGlock 07-14-2005, 23:12 Whoa...
Ummm, I guess all I can say to all of this is that I wouldn't trust my life with this first PM9, which is why I sent it back. And if this next one has any problems, I won't trust it either. I am, however, willing to give it a chance. I by no means will pick it up at the gun shop and holster it for the day. It's going to have to prove an awful lot to me before I will carry it. But again, I'm willing to give it a chance.
justtalking...I truly understand what you're saying. I look at it this way, the G23 is just too big for me to carry in the summer. I tried. If I don't find something else I won't be carrying anything at all. Tactical pants and a "fishing vest" just aren't practical for me in the summer. I'd rather have something than nothing.
You're right, my husband is a Quality Manager of Biologics, and he says they definitely failed for first time quality. After talking with Stefan I'm confident that the gun will be defect-free, but again, it's going to take a lot of proof before I carry it.
I'm happy I can keep things "interesting" for you. (I'm assuming that was not a compliment.) I'm sorry I "wasted your mind". I hope you enjoyed your cigar.
GirlWithGlock 07-14-2005, 23:19 Originally posted by justtalking
...And thinking I might try it again because......(insert reason here).
I would NEVER try that gun again. If they were to fix the same gun and send it back, I would have traded it for something else. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt because I plan to test this gun extensively. It is going to have to be great before I carry it. Too many people have fired thousands of rounds through theirs with no malfunctions for me to not give it a chance. Like I said, I carry something smaller in the summer, or I'll carry nothing.
I really do appreciate everything you have to say; I'm flattered that you care enough to spend this much time making sure I make the right decision.
justtalking 07-14-2005, 23:21 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
Whoa...
Ummm, I guess all I can say to all of this is that I wouldn't trust my life with this first PM9, which is why I sent it back. And if this next one has any problems, I won't trust it either. I am, however, willing to give it a chance. I by no means will pick it up at the gun shop and holster it for the day. It's going to have to prove an awful lot to me before I will carry it. But again, I'm willing to give it a chance.
justtalking...I truly understand what you're saying. I look at it this way, the G23 is just too big for me to carry in the summer. I tried. If I don't find something else I won't be carrying anything at all. Tactical pants and a "fishing vest" just aren't practical for me in the summer. I'd rather have something than nothing.
You're right, my husband is a Quality Manager of Biologics, and he says they definitely failed for first time quality. After talking with Stefan I'm confident that the gun will be defect-free, but again, it's going to take a lot of proof before I carry it.
I'm happy I can keep things "interesting" for you. (I'm assuming that was not a compliment.) I'm sorry I "wasted your mind". I hope you enjoyed your cigar.
It was a compliment. You do keep things interesting. I'm glad you will decide for yourself and test the little sucker out. Kahr is a good name, just seems alot of people are having major problems. Good luck with your gun. Hope the second one is perfect. The hot tub was great and my mind is "unwasted". The Cuban cigar helped.
justtalking 07-14-2005, 23:25 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I would NEVER try that gun again. If they were to fix the same gun and send it back, I would have traded it for something else. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt because I plan to test this gun extensively. It is going to have to be great before I carry it. Too many people have fired thousands of rounds through theirs with no malfunctions for me to not give it a chance. Like I said, I carry something smaller in the summer, or I'll carry nothing.
I really do appreciate everything you have to say; I'm flattered that you care enough to spend this much time making sure I make the right decision.
That and I have vacation tommorrow and I can stay up late and be on Glocktalk. ;) lol
GirlWithGlock 07-14-2005, 23:28 Originally posted by justtalking
It was a compliment. You do keep things interesting. I'm glad you will decide for yourself and test the little sucker out. Kahr is a good name, just seems alot of people are having major problems. Good luck with your gun. Hope the second one is perfect. The hot tub was great and my mind is "unwasted". The Cuban cigar helped.
Okay...it's just that I've been criticized more than my share here. I kind of assume people are irritated with me most of the time. ;i
And trust me when I say I will test that little bugger beyond any testing I've ever done before. ;)
justtalking 07-14-2005, 23:30 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
Okay...it's just that I've been criticized more than my share here. I kind of assume people are irritated with me most of the time. ;i
And trust me when I say I will test that little bugger beyond any testing I've ever done before. ;)
Originally posted by justtalking
;z I think the above posting was a misfire. Must not have been using his Glock. ;a
justtalking 07-14-2005, 23:41 Originally posted by justtalking
I noticed they beat you up quite a bit. I think it is really cool that a woman likes guns like you do. And seems to know about them. I don't know many women that like guns. And your not afraid to ask questions.
GirlWithGlock 07-14-2005, 23:41 ;i I think he may have been trying out my first PM9. ;)
justtalking 07-14-2005, 23:43 Originally posted by goblue
;z I think the above posting was a misfire. Must not have been using his Glock. ;a
Damn thing. Guess I got to start looking. You just never know do you. Where do you live in Michigan. I'm in Saginaw.
GirlWithGlock 07-14-2005, 23:44 Originally posted by justtalking
I noticed they beat you up quite a bit. I think it is really cool that a woman likes guns like you do. And seems to know about them. I don't know many women that like guns. And your not afraid to ask questions.
I think a lot of guys just don't want women treading on "male turf". I hesitate every time I ask a question. I read my comment, and re-read it again and again to make sure that someone may not interpret it wrong. But hey, I'm starting to get comfy. ;)
Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
;i I think he may have been trying out my first PM9. ;)
Maybe we need to send justtalking to Kahr for some "buffing and fluffing".
Roundeyesamurai 07-14-2005, 23:47 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I think a lot of guys just don't want women treading on "male turf". I hesitate every time I ask a question. I read my comment, and re-read it again and again to make sure that someone may not interpret it wrong. But hey, I'm starting to get comfy. ;)
Hey, some of us are glad you're around, Carla.
#wav
Originally posted by justtalking
... Where do you live in Michigan. I'm in Saginaw.
I am in Minnesnowta now. Did a 2 year stint in Ann Arbor and far too many delays in the old DTW hunk of junk.
GirlWithGlock 07-14-2005, 23:52 Originally posted by goblue
Maybe we need to send justtalking to Kahr for some "buffing and fluffing".
;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z
You know we love you, Gary!! :)
Alex...thank you!!! :)
Michigun 07-15-2005, 07:15 Originally posted by justtalking
If my Glock starts to have major failings, I will go looking for another brand.
Finally on your 3rd attempt here I see where it is that you’re coming from… let’s just say that I don’t agree with your thinking at all on this one.
If I believed the same I wouldn’t own much at all & certainly wouldn’t own any GLOCKs as I had some real problems with a G19 once. According to your thinking I should have dropped GLOCK all together & went to another manufacture? I don’t think so; it was just that one G19… nothing is perfect.
Originally posted by justtalking
I'm in Saginaw.
Saginaw, eh? Nice to meet ya then; I’m your local GLOCK Armorer. ^c
BackDraft 07-15-2005, 09:22 quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by justtalking
I noticed they beat you up quite a bit. I think it is really cool that a woman likes guns like you do. And seems to know about them. I don't know many women that like guns. And your not afraid to ask questions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think a lot of guys just don't want women treading on "male turf". I hesitate every time I ask a question. I read my comment, and re-read it again and again to make sure that someone may not interpret it wrong. But hey, I'm starting to get comfy.
If we have that here then its news to me. There are shooters and there are non shooters. GWG your a shooter like the rest of us and don't worry about asking a question in here. I know most of the Kahr Club Members are more than will to help to the answers. So you just ask away when you need to.
denfoote 07-15-2005, 22:56 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I hear ya...it sucks to get burned; especially when it's more than once.
I'm keeping an open mind because like others have said, there is going to be a lemon or two (or several) in any mass-produced product. As long as the company stands behind their product and makes it right no matter what, everything will be okay. :)
Good or bad customer service was not the main issue as much as I dislike the policy of using us consumers as beta testers without, at least, telling us!!! Microsoft and the other software companies tell us that their new software is beta. Car companies do extensive testing before they put a new car on the market!!!
Not so with the gun companies!! They market new products as if they already had been proven!! Such is ALMOST NEVER the case!!
justtalking 07-15-2005, 23:02 Originally posted by Michigun
Finally on your 3rd attempt here I see where it is that you’re coming from… let’s just say that I don’t agree with your thinking at all on this one.
If I believed the same I wouldn’t own much at all & certainly wouldn’t own any GLOCKs as I had some real problems with a G19 once. According to your thinking I should have dropped GLOCK all together & went to another manufacture? I don’t think so; it was just that one G19… nothing is perfect.
Saginaw, eh? Nice to meet ya then; I’m your local GLOCK Armorer. ^c
If you work at Duncan's or Williams we have crossed paths.
justtalking 07-15-2005, 23:20 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z
You know we love you, Gary!! :)
Alex...thank you!!! :)
Thanks Carla!! I was crushed for awhile. hehehehe
The fluff and buff sounds kind of interesting. ;a
Originally posted by justtalking
Thanks Carla!! I was crushed for awhile. hehehehe
The fluff and buff sounds kind of interesting. ;a
It involves emery cloth, a Dremel Tool, Semichrome and a good flushing out with a strong solvent....Still interested?
Dandapani 07-16-2005, 21:44 Originally posted by JWM
Stephan, Dottie, whoever - customer service is top notch at Kahr. They're not happy until you are. You may have caught Dottie before her second cup of coffee, she's top notch as well. I spoke to her a few minutes one day and jokingly told her she was infamous on the internet. She replied she was hired to do one thing - fix all problems and make the customer happy.
I've not dealt with Stephan, only Dottie. Twice. Got mixed results. Last time she assured me there wasn't a new designed recoil spring assembly for the PM9 even when I showed her photos via email clearly showing an extra two (?) coils of spring, and the color was different (black on the new one?). Then few months later, new PM9 recoil springs were flowing out of the factory...
GirlWithGlock 07-16-2005, 22:18 Originally posted by Sgt127
It involves emery cloth, a Dremel Tool, Semichrome and a good flushing out with a strong solvent....Still interested?
I can definitely see the strong solvent causing a problem with the Cuban cigar. ;i
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I started a new thread with my PM9 #2 results. :)
justtalking 07-16-2005, 23:21 Originally posted by GirlWithGlock
I can definitely see the strong solvent causing a problem with the Cuban cigar. ;i
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I started a new thread with my PM9 #2 results. :)
;z ;z ;z ;z
Having problems with your Kahr is one thing,
but the possible demise of a good Cuban cigar....
Well there are limits Carla!! ;I
GirlWithGlock 07-16-2005, 23:27 Originally posted by justtalking
;z ;z ;z ;z
Having problems with your Kahr is one thing,
but the possible demise of a good Cuban cigar....
Well there are limits Carla!! ;I
;i I dunno...they don't do much for me. ;)
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