.40S&W for wilderness?

[outdoorman]

Spend some time in mountains of north georgia. sometimes in isolated wilderness not seeing anyone for hours. Considering that I'd like to control this attraction to guns of various calibers and narrow it down to one caliber that would be great in the wilderness as well as my ccw in 'civilization'. This caliber should be able to stop anything in an unfriendly encounter while in the woods.
Give me your thoughts.

[ColoradoGlocker]

.

[outdoorman]

I sort of suspected it might be, but I think I've seen NPS rangers and I know Georgia State Park rangers carrying glock 22s.
Figured they would be equipped to dispatch a predator if situation called for.

[New York Hunter]

Originally posted by outdoorman
I sort of suspected it might be, but I think I've seen NPS rangers and I know Georgia State Park rangers carrying glock 22s.
Figured they would be equipped to dispatch a predator if situation called for. Most park rangers also have a "long gun" of some sort in their vehicle, at least in my area! If you're going to be in black bear and wild boar country, I would carry a 3 or 4 inch barrel revolver in 44 mag or a 480 Ruger. Thats just me!

[SDGlock23]

Your .40 is fine for woods carry. I would load it with either 180 or 200 gr. bullets, and if you don't reload, DoubleTap's 200 gr. XTP would be the perfect choice.

If your looking to buy something, buy a 4 5/8" Blackhawk in .45 Colt and load it up with something from Buffalo Bore in case you run into a herd of bears or mt. lions.

[Never2many]

A .40s&w is a might on the small side for defense against things that go bump in the night in the woods. Why don't you try a .40 magnum? It's called a 10mm.

+1

[MCNETT]

For the GA woods, I would agree that the DoubleTap 200XTP. would be a good load.
-Mike

[bac1023]

I'd go with a Glock 20 10mm, if not a big bore revolver.

[AG363]

Please take this the way I intend it-

The best gun for critter protection in GA would be a G17L with a 33rd magazine. That way, you have 32 loud noises to try and scare the animal off and 1 round to hit it with. That is because by the time you get to the 33rd round, the pistol and most of your arm will be inside the attackers mouth.

Lets face it folks, attatcking preadatory animals dont stand still...and niether should you!

In northern GA, I would be more worried about the two legged critters, and for them, your .40 is just fine.:)

[chriswolfe1968]

...

[MARTIN FISHER]

A Glock 22 or 23 with 200 gr. XTP Double Tap ammo or the same companies 180 gr would be fine. I often hunt in areas where big cougars are, in fact, I hunt them, and I have never felt underguned with my Glock 23.

BTW, I call cats here with a .223 Rem loaded with 50 or 55 gr. Sierra Bllitzking bullets, they have never failed to kill a cat with one shot, unless I misplaced the shot. Hitting them where it counts is vital.

[grecco]

i usually carry a g23 when hiking or mountain biking in the woods of pa.......
i also carry 1-2 extra mags.....
i am more worried about 2 legged animals as opposed to 4 legged .

[jeb_ingram]

Originally posted by New York Hunter
If you're going to be in black bear and wild boar country, I would carry a 3 or 4 inch barrel revolver in 44 mag or a 480 Ruger.

+1

S&W has a 44 mag with a 3 and 4 inch barrel models. Ruger has a 454 Casull with a 2 1/2 inch barrel that you can shoot the 45 long colt out of for two legged threat control then load up the 454 when you go into the backwood. Ruger also has a 480 in the same barrel length(2 1/2). Taurus makes a 454 casull with a 2 1/2 inch barrel along with a 2 1/4 barrel 44 mag. If all else fails you can get the S&W 500 mag in a the 3 inch barrel with 1 inch of compensator.;f

[J.P.]

Our Rangers carry 180gr Golden Saber bonded.

[amd65]

Grecco- I sometimes camp in PA and have heard thet your state has some law against semi-autos for woods carry. Is that true? I agree with you that two-legged critters are the most dangerous. I have backwoods backpacked and sea-kayaked for twenty years and have had two or three occaisions where I was glad I was armed (though I never had to present my weapon, much less use it...)
I also feel that many who suggest large revolvers may not have carried one on foot for any distance. When I was young, I carried a 6-inch 44mag with a full cylinder and three speed-loaders of ammo. Talk about heavy!
The more outdoors experiance I got, the smaller my handgun got, till I was just carrying a 38 snub. Now, it would be my G23.

[jbp7hl]

what about .357 sig?

penetration should much better along with a louder noise and bigger flash to get the park ranger to come running with his 30.06

[n3hcp]

Originally posted by amd65
Grecco- I sometimes camp in PA and have heard thet your state has some law against semi-autos for woods carry. Is that true?


Maybe I can answer your question. PA doesn't allow the use of any semi-auto firearm, rifle of pistol, for hunting. If your not hunting there should not be a problem. The catch is State Game Land. Possession of any gun on Game Lands can be considered evidence of hunting. I’ve never heard of anyone carrying on Game Land for self-defense having a problem, but it’s something to keep in mind.

And, of course, no carry is allowed in State Parks.:(

[147 Grain]

Buy the heaviest FMJ bullets you can find for your 40 S&W or 180-gr. Gold Dot or Hornady 200-gr. XTP from Double Tap for better penetration

[jpshaw]

Georgia? After years of checking timber in the south I find only three things to worry about. Two legged types, wasps and snakes. Stay away from the wasps, step over the snakes and carry the same gun you normally carry.

[xscottx9]

I am curious as to the 200 grain .40, or why not just step up to the 230 grain .45? Is the G23 with a 200g bullet gonna fair better in a wildnerness setting .. or is it just the fact that a .40 is what is owned.

I have had both a G22, and G21 .. which to carry in the woods was always on my mind. I dont have the G22 anymore, but am considering a G23 i nthe near future .. to round out my Glock collection. G36, 26, G17, G21 .. and a G23 for camping. I normally take my G17 because it is lighter than my G21 ..

[mikeashurst]

Originally posted by outdoorman
Spend some time in mountains of north georgia. sometimes in isolated wilderness not seeing anyone for hours. Considering that I'd like to control this attraction to guns of various calibers and narrow it down to one caliber that would be great in the wilderness as well as my ccw in 'civilization'. This caliber should be able to stop anything in an unfriendly encounter while in the woods.
Give me your thoughts.

Simple answer:

S&W model 629 Classic 5" .44 magnum loaded with Federal Castcore 300 gr. ammo.

[jeb_ingram]

Originally posted by mikeashurst
Simple answer:

S&W model 629 Classic 5" .44 magnum loaded with Federal Castcore 300 gr. ammo.

+1 I just picked up the S&W 629 Mountian gun with Federal CastCore for my backpacking trip. Its refreshing to see others with the same taste in a great set up.

[mikeashurst]

Originally posted by jeb_ingram
+1 I just picked up the S&W 629 Mountian gun with Federal CastCore for my backpacking trip. Its refreshing to see others with the same taste in a great set up.

^c

[GlockMan40s&w]

Normally carry my .357, Hornady 158 GR Hollow Point/XTP

Gun- Ruger Blackhawk or Ruger GP-100

Great for hiking or when I'm scouting the deer woods.

[FredLEFI]

I live, backpack and seakayak in neighboring TN. I'm originally from NW GA. While it's possible to encounter small black bears and hogs - it's not very likely. If you stay cool and can shoot, you will be fine with a 23. Go with a heavier, more penetrating bullet and enjoy the weight reduction over some of the artillery that has been suggested by some.

When I see folk talk about packing heavy revolvers - especially SAs (might not be able to work that hammer if it gets up close and ugly), I wonder how much hiking they've actually done.

Enjoy!

Fred

[GlockMan40s&w]

Well, if spending the weekend crawling the swamps on the pearl river or scouting deer along creek banks down along Hommochitta National Forest, might not be hiking but you'll work up a sweat.

My Ruger is about the same weight as my G22. I can work my hammer just fine too.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/glockman40/Guns/Blackhawk357.jpg

[Jim Ewing]

Originally posted by mikeashurst
Simple answer:

S&W model 629 Classic 5" .44 magnum loaded with Federal Castcore 300 gr. ammo.

+2. Great, packable, accurate, reliable, revolvers. The 5" Classic is my favorite hunting revolver.

GlockMan,
Nice Ruger.
I'm thinking about a Bisley Super BlackHawk.

I live in North Georgia. I DO NOT backpack or hike. Nor do I have any dang desire to ever do so. The Corps took that desire right out of me. However, I do "walk", work and hunt my farm amd other properties. I prefer revolvers when going in the woods 100% of the time. But thats just me. Like some other's here, I was raised on sixgun's. Bottome Line. Your not going to meet Bigfoot in North Georgia. Carry whatever floats your boat.

[G27Chief]

I would say anything you encounter in the deep woods of the Great State of Georgia can be dispatched with a 40. The largest and perhaps the the most encountered in the Southern part of the state on a regular basis is either a alligator or a wild hog.

Proper placement with a good expanding round, heavy enough to give the desired "shock" works.

GA DNR carries the Glock 22 as a primary, with 180 gr. rounds, possibly Speer (since they have the state contract this year)

The desire to perhaps to "knock down" a wild boar on the run would be from all experienced in this matter, better handled with a large bore rifle.

I would say a good 44 or 45 revolver is a primary choice, however the Glock would still be my choice, due to weight and carry concerns.

[ECVMatt]

that seem to do pretty will on the frontier. I would feel fine the a .40. It is small,light,a dependable. Use the right bullets and do not worry. I have tried to carry a revolver while hiking and they always seem to end up in the pack. My Glocks are light enough to carry all day in a holster.

Have a great day,

Matt

[kristylynn]

I would go with a G20 10mm or a S&W 5" 6 shot 45 Colt for 4 legged creatures.
;8 ;I

[jobob]

I'm a law enforcement officer with the US Forest Service. I carry a G23 with Speer Gold Dot 165 gr. (Our normal issue gun is the G22, but I prefer the 23.) And, I have a CAR 15 and a Remington 870 in my rig. The biggest threats in the woods travel on 2 legs. Snakes can be a problem in places, and for those a .38 snub with shot loads is ideal. I talked to a man once who said that he stopped a charging momma black bear with a Glock 9mm. He emptied the magazine (or came close), but it worked. The bear turned away and died later. I believe he said he used FMJ. By the way, there is something to be said for using FMJ. If we are talking about bears and other critters with thick hide and big bones, penetration is more important than expansion. ANY service-calibre handgun is marginal at best as a large critter stopper. Your best bet if charged is multiple rounds in the frontal area (head/neck) and hope a bullet finds a vital area, preferrably in the central nervous system. If you use expanding bullets the heavier, tough bullets like the Gold Dots, Nosler Partition, and Barns X are a good way to go. But, like I said, it's the 2 legged predators that are by far the most common threat.

Ten years ago I had to dispatch a cow elk which had a boken back. One .40 S&W round in the back of the head did the trick. I was carrying a S&W 4046 (boat anchor) at that time with 180 gr. Hydro-Shocks.

I sold my S&W 629 Mountain Gun. Great gun, but it never left my gun safe. Even as light as it is, it's still too big for me to comfortably carry it all day. I bought a G29 as a trail gun and hunting backup. It's fine, but even it can feel a little heavy on the belt after a full day in the woods. There's nothing wrong with the G23 as an all round carry gun. I've never felt under gunned with mine ----- except when I wanted something bigger! And when I want something bigger, I want it a LOT bigger, like a long gun.

[n3hcp]

Originally posted by jobob
I'm a law enforcement officer with the US Forest Service. I carry a G23....
Well there you have it, from the horse’s mouth, so to speak:).

I will be camping in northern PA in a week or so in an area known for its bears. I now feel a lot better about taking my G23. Yes. I have a .44 MAG but as has been said before it gets real heavy real quick! Since I won’t be concerned about over-penetration or other politically correct ammunition concerns that might be an issue in an urban social setting, I’ll be carrying two 13 round mags loaded with FMJ ammo. I still may take the .44, or even the Remington 12 ga. pump, just to have around the camp, but not to carry.

Thanks, jobob, for the helpful insights:).

[Wallygator]

I would have to vote for this even though I love my G29.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/mww1968/untitled.jpg


A 329PD in .44 mag would be great for 2 or 4 legged problems. At 26 ounces this gun is light. This isn't a range gun this is a save your life gun and you aren't going to notice the recoil when your life is on the line. Load this baby with some DT .44 mag loads and you are set with a powerful defense pistol that is light packing. The price is up there but what is your life worth?:)

[G27dogmannfl]

Originally posted by Wallygator
I would have to vote for this even though I love my G29.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/mww1968/untitled.jpg


A 329PD in .44 mag would be great for 2 or 4 legged problems. At 26 ounces this gun is light. This isn't a range gun this is a save your life gun and you aren't going to notice the recoil when your life is on the line. Load this baby with some DT .44 mag loads and you are set with a powerful defense pistol that is light packing. The price is up there but what is your life worth?:)

+1 ;z ;z ;z

[jeb_ingram]

I'll have to disagree with all those who say the S&W 629 is too heavy. I just spent a wonderful weekend in the High Uintas and my 629 didn’t leave my hip, not because I did'nt use it, because half the time I forgot it was there. I tried to get a Bianchi 7001 holster but it didn’t arrive in time so I picked up a cheap Uncle Mikes that hung great off my belt. It was more comfortable to carry than my Glock 27 in my Galco kydex paddle. I’m not saying that the S&W 629 or the equivalent in weight is the only way to go, but you need to find something that feels good hanging from your hip for 6+ miles into a lake.

[lastevolution]

.40 should be enough.

If it's an animal with more than 2 legs, I'd just try to dump as much ammo into them as possbile until they stop.

[Ak.Hiker]

I think I would go with 10 rounds of full power 10mm in the Glock 29 than dealing with the recoil of full power 44 mag loads in the 329. If I was going to carry the Smith it would be loaded with a good reduced recoil load. Buffalo Bore has a 250 hard cast reduced recoil load designed for animal protection. Bullet pull could also be a problem with the full power heavyweights. I would never carry such a load in the 329. In many areas of the country a good 40S&W loaded with a hot FMJ load should take care of most any problem one would encounter while hiking.

[amd65]

Packing a large revolver by itself is no problem at all. Packing it on a thirty mile backpack trip with 40 pounds of other gear is another story--I've done it once, and wouldn't again. As I've posted before, and as others have said, human trash is your biggest threat. I've backpacked for over 15 years in North western PA (Allegheny National Forest) and have never seen a trace of bear, though I know people who have seen them. On my last trip, earlier this month I saw a wolf. I felt well armed with my glock 23 and doubletap 165 gold dots, backed up with doubletap 200xtps.

[Wallygator]

Originally posted by lastevolution
.40 should be enough.

If it's an animal with more than 2 legs, I'd just try to dump as much ammo into them as possbile until they stop.

LOL! What if it doesn't stop?

[Wallygator]

Originally posted by Ak.Hiker
I think I would go with 10 rounds of full power 10mm in the Glock 29 than dealing with the recoil of full power 44 mag loads in the 329. If I was going to carry the Smith it would be loaded with a good reduced recoil load. Buffalo Bore has a 250 hard cast reduced recoil load designed for animal protection. Bullet pull could also be a problem with the full power heavyweights. I would never carry such a load in the 329. In many areas of the country a good 40S&W loaded with a hot FMJ load should take care of most any problem one would encounter while hiking.


I think bullet pull would be the only concern for me with the 329 as recoil would not be a problem for me. Especially in a stressful situation.

Of course, the bullet pull question would be answered through testing before I ever carried it into the field. An yes I would go with the G29 before carrying a .40.

[loboblanca]

I agree. Most times you won't ever encounter any wildlife because they don't want to encounter you. There is no such thing as a pack of bears or a pack of lions. Make noise and you'll never see a bear or wolf. Mountain lions are different, they sneak up on you and the biggest cannon you can carry won't help you there. I don't know if there are lions in Georgia or not, perhaps. Any critter smaller than that can be easily dispatched with a .40, what that animal-threat might be I couldn't say. Wolves don't hunt humans.

I've spent most my life in the Rockie Mountains where we grow predators really big. I have never carried in the wilderness, and have only seen a predator 3 times. I plan to carry now to defend against the 2-legged predator, which is much more dangerous. Game warden's here carry for that very reason, not to defend themselves against wildlife. Think about it, when is the last time you ever heard of a park ranger or game warden having to kill a lion or bear because he was fearing for his life?

[jobob]

Originally posted by n3hcp
Well there you have it, from the horse’s mouth, so to speak:).

I will be camping in northern PA in a week or so in an area known for its bears. I now feel a lot better about taking my G23. Yes. I have a .44 MAG but as has been said before it gets real heavy real quick! Since I won’t be concerned about over-penetration or other politically correct ammunition concerns that might be an issue in an urban social setting, I’ll be carrying two 13 round mags loaded with FMJ ammo. I still may take the .44, or even the Remington 12 ga. pump, just to have around the camp, but not to carry.

Thanks, jobob, for the helpful insights:).

You're quite welcome.

If you like the .44 Mag. there is nothing wrong with it. I just don't like to carry something that bulky and heavy when the chances of using it are slim to none (If you're talking Alaska, that's another story. You'd want a heavy rifle or 12 ga. with a .44 or .454 for backup there). A handgun is for last ditch self defense, and my G23 or G29 works pretty well in that role. Another good choice would be the 5-shot S&W Scandium .44 Special. I want one, but at $600 I'll pass and stick to my Glocks.

[Wallygator]

Originally posted by G27dogmannfl
+1 ;z ;z ;z



Our you laughing at me focker? ;f

[jwwrs]

While you may or may not like Chuck Hawks...here is his take on field protection. It may or may not have any bearing on your situation, but anyway it may be worth a read.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/protection_field.htm

[DHB]

I am a 45 year Georgia native (minus a 4 year military vacation) and I believe the .40 would do pretty well here. Out side of the rare spotting a small bear we dont have too many large predators here. The .40 would be loud enough to scare anything away and big enough to take them out provided your shot placement and ammo selection is good. Humans are more of threat than the predators. If you can handle the recoil, I would feel that a 10mm would give you an extra margin of safety. A .45 in +p may be pretty good too.

[fastbolt]

I grew up learning to shoot SA revolvers and pistols. I was influenced to think of a .357 Magnum revolver as a light-duty, medium-bore backwoods protection caliber, and a .41/.44 Magnum or a handloaded .45Colt ... all in Ruger SA revolvers ... being better.

I still think of a .357 Magnum, loaded with 158gr-180gr ammunition, to be a 'minimal' caliber for my less frequent day-trips outside urban areas. I've always thought of .357 Magnum, loaded with heavier ammunition, as Okay for potential 2-legged threats and lighter skinned 4-legged threats. I prefer to carry a .44 Magnum revolver if I anticipate larger, more dangerous animals, especially with today's better 270-315gr loads.

Now, my father also taught me to choose a handgun based on the anticipated task to be accomplished, and then to choose a caliber suitable to the task, followed by the specific load/type of ammunition ... and lastly, the platform desired or most suitable for the circumstances under which the task may need to be performed.

I still like SA revolvers. A good shooter using a good 2-handed SA revolver technique can fire fast & accurately. Reloading is a mite slower, to be sure.;) I've had occasion to run a couple of Ruger Blackhawks through our qualification ranges in the past, and demonstrate to a few of the younger hot-shot pistoleros that simply wearing a lot of high-tech gear and carrying a square handled bottom feeder doesn't necessarily mean you can get off 6 accurate rounds any faster or more accurately, or even as fast and as accurately, as was often the case. Practice, practice, practice.

Okay, it also helped that growing up learning to shoot revolvers apparently instilled some basic skills increasingly not seen in many of today's younger L/E recruits, too, but that's another problem.:)

A friend of mine who retired to the N/E part of CA recently had a large brown bear barrel across the trail in front of him as he was out hiking. Pretty damn fast, to hear him tell it. He apparently had his hands full trying to control his horse, which he was walking at the time. He's always relied on his 'bear bait' dogs to scare away the brown bears, and finally agreed that maybe he ought to consider carrying a handgun ... just in case. I think he's only going to carry a snub .38 ... but it's a start.

The folks that live in the property out back behind ours told my wife that the other day they had watched a mountain lion and 2 cubs walk up the easement road that connects our properties. I've watched a couple of small bobcats sitting outside a rear living room window before, but this is the first time I've heard of a mountain lion coming through the property. Oh well, it's not really that surprising considering they've been spotted elsewhere in the South Bay. I guess I wouldn't really have to go hiking to come across a predatory cat, come to that ...

Given my druthers in the way of my common duty & off-duty weapons, I'd probably prefer to have either a .40 S&W or .45 ACP to put down a large cat threatening to seriously injure or kill someone, instead of my 9mm, although I'd really prefer my 870.

I've always liked the Ruger 4 5/8" Blackhawks. Nice, lightweight, rugged, accurate, robust and reliable. Not for everyone, though, and I'm not intimating that they are, or should be ...

I traded off a 4 5/8" Blackhawk .44 that I really should've kept. What was I thinking? ;Q I also have a Redhawk 5 1/2" and MagNaPorted S&W 629-4 Classic 6 1/2" that I like ... although they're both a bit heavy for all-day carry, day in & day out. My Blackhawk .45 Convertible 4 5/8" (.45Colt & .45ACP cylinders) is a nice compromise, too.

Bottom line? Choose what you will, for the reasons that make sense to you ... and realize that nothing in the way of 'equipment' will ever really substitute for awareness, common sense, knowledge and training ...

I think all of us have different perceived needs and desired levels of comfort when it comes to these things. I cetainly wouldn't want to be the one to TELL someone else what they MUST or SHOULD do. Not my place, for one thing.

I read that Glock Annual article, too, BTW. It was an enjoyable read, and I'm not saying that I didn't agree with much of it, but remember that gun magazine articles are written to be sold ... and it's fair to surmise that publishing it in the Glock Annual is probably intended to help sell Glocks.;)

I always enjoy the discussion that comes out of threads like this. First, because they're often more friendly and courteous than other types of threads ... and second, because I always enjoy an opportunity to see other folk's Ruger SA's. :)

[RugerFan58]

Originally posted by Wallygator
LOL! What if it doesn't stop? Maybe he's carrying a few extra magazines? My wife and I both carry G23's when we go canoe-camping and hiking. With our 2 extra mags we've got 80 rounds of 180 JHP's between us. That'll stop a threat pretty quick. ;c ;c

[RugerFan58]

Originally posted by RugerFan58
Maybe he's carrying a few extra magazines? My wife and I both carry G23's when we go canoe-camping and hiking. With our 2 extra mags a piece we've got 80 rounds of 180 JHP's between us. That'll stop a threat pretty quick. ;c ;c

[Wallygator]

Originally posted by RugerFan58
Maybe he's carrying a few extra magazines? My wife and I both carry G23's when we go canoe-camping and hiking. With our 2 extra mags we've got 80 rounds of 180 JHP's between us. That'll stop a threat pretty quick. ;c ;c


By the time you reload that bear will be shoving that 23 up your behind. IMHO.;e

[SDGlock23]

GlockMan40s&w, nice gun! Top notch woods gun right there.

RugerFan58, sounds like you and your wife are well armed!! As long as you can hit where you want, you're all set!!

[RugerFan58]

deleted

[RugerFan58]

Check this out

[RugerFan58]

When we took our Ma. CCW course she outshot me !! She belongs to The Second Amendment Sisters and wants my 1911 I just bought. Here's a bear I wouldn't try defending myself with a G23. Had to do this in two post........something is going on with the server. Sorry.;c

[RugerFan58]

Another try at this one.

[Wallygator]

Originally posted by RugerFan58
Another try at this one.


WOW ;P That is a BIG bear. Nice pics.;c

[loboblanca]

Originally posted by Wallygator
By the time you reload that bear will be shoving that 23 up your behind. IMHO.;e

Make plenty of noise when out and you'll never see a bear. IF you do, firing into the air does more good with blackies than anything, it scares them off..yelling works better. Most of the time you see a bear running its to get away from the humans that just scared the pee-doodle out of them. This doesn't count when it comes to a mother protecting her cubs, however, then you'd best just back out of there without running. Shoot her and wound her then you really got a problem, and the 23 really will be up your behind.

Just talk real loud like ya do at the office ;) and they'll stay away from you.

[svetlio]

Originally posted by bac1023
I'd go with a Glock 20 10mm, if not a big bore revolver.


+1

[Hobear]

I'd be much more concerned about a .40 being able to stop a hog than a cougar. Cougars are top line predators and should be respected as such but I'm certain a .40 would stop one if you saw it coming. They are ambush experts, and your first notice of an attack would be it landing on you with a vice like bite on your head or the back of your neck. A hog is a much more solid animal and if it was a boar rutting with that thickass cartiledge on its shoulders you'd have to get a headshot to drop it. As for bear, generally if you make some noise you'll most likely never see one. If you're camping store your food appropriately (roped up in a tree). I'd use what I had for self defense but a 12 guage 3 1/2 magnum with slugs would be my first choice for putting down a determined attack by a bear. That's a little much to be lugging on the trail though.

[jflimbach]

Originally posted by loboblanca
Make plenty of noise when out and you'll never see a bear. IF you do, firing into the air does more good with blackies than anything, it scares them off..yelling works better.

That's true. Here in Montana we have a bit of different problem, i.e. grizzlies, which are just born more agressive than black bears. We had an absolute worse case scenario out here last week. Father hiking with his 18 year old daughter rounded a blind curve on the trail and wound up 5 feet away from a sow grizzly with two cubs. Obviously they were not making enough noise, but they managed to survive although the bear knocked them off the trail and down a steep slope. The father spent some time in the hospital, but at least they didn't get eaten.

Here's an interesting statistic about black bears by a bear biologist. After explaining that blacks are not agressive by nature he says "So how likely is it to get attacked and killed by a black bear? Bear Biologist Lynn Rogers sums it up quite nicely: “For each death from a black bear across North America, there are approximately 17 deaths by spiders, 25 deaths from snakes, 67 deaths from dogs, 180 deaths from bees and wasps, 374 deaths from lightening and 90,000 homicides.” and probably 700 deaths from bull moose, which are really cranky critters.

Now for my .02: Carry whatever you want, bigger the better. Choose the heaviest, best penetrating round you can find. For bear you want penetration, not expansion, to break some serious bones quickly.

When in the backcountry out here, I carry my Ruger Redhawk .44mag loaded with 330gr hardcast Garrett +P Hammerhead rounds. Yes, its heavy but I don't find that to be more than I can tote. Others will opine quite correctly that .480 Ruger or .454 Casul are better, and that's true, at least for the first shot. But, I can handle a quick, full cylinder double action in the .44mag where I can't in those two. Seems like this would be important with a bear coming at you. Once S&W comes out with .460 SVR in a 5 or 5 1/2" barrel I'll switch to that as it will give twice the energy on target with less recoil.

Having a trusted friend with his .50 Barrett nearby would be good too.

[Wallygator]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/mww1968/bearheadfromRugerFan58.jpg


Carry what you want! Against that!? Where's my .40!?

;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z ;z

[amd65]

My folding stock AK with a thirty round clip of FMJs probably weighs about the same...and carries on a sling!

[Cam Cooke]

Well guys I live in British Columbia, Canada which has the largest black bear population in the world and I am also one of a very few non-law-enforcement people that can legally carry handguns.

I started in 1987 with a Colt Delta Elite with 190gr Sierra FPJ bullets @ about 1180fps.

My next gun was a 3rd gen G20 with a 5" KKM barrel but also at this time I found Mike Mcnett's load data on the 10mm reloading section and bumped my velocities up to 1280fps with the same 190gr bullet.

The problem with working in the bush here in BC is that the black bear poulation has more than doubled to an estimated 180,000 to 200,000 in the last 20 years. The grizzly population is extremely healthy as well.

In the last 3 years I have started having so many black bear encounters that it is totally amazing too me. I feel perfectly safe with my G20 but started thinking about is it enough. I'm usually working solo with only my dog as company and the nearest people maybe 10 to 30 miles away.

Soooooo.....

Now when the bears are tucked away for the winter, or if I'm jumping in and out of the truck I carry my G20.

When I'm in black bear country I carry either a 6" S&W 629 44mag with 240gr Gold Dot's @ 1400fps or 270gr Gold Dot's @ 1200fps and 4 speed loaders. I may also carry my 5.5" s/s Ruger Bisley Vaquero in 45 Colt with 330gr bullets @ 1290fps. If I'm in grizzly country I carry a 7.5" Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull with 360gr WLNGC hard cast bullets @ 1520fps with 4 speed loaders.

I don't care how much the guns/bullets weigh when you have as many bear encounters as I do you will have the most powerful handgun that you can shoot fast and accurately.

[agtman]

Yeah, but Cam's situation with that many bear encounters is the exception. ;P

For the average Joe caught in the occasional encounter, if he isn't likely to have a rifle accessible, a G20 loaded with 15+1 of Double Tap's 10mm "bear-stopper" loads should suffice (like the 200gn Hornady FMJ-FP @ 1270fps/715fpe or the 200gn Hard Cast WFNGC @ 1300fps/750fpe).

Better than harsh language or the tree-huggers' favorite, pepper spray. ;Q

[Cam Cooke]

agtman.....

I should have also included in my comments.........

Use the gun that best fits the situation, area, conditions, that your in at the time and also what kind of 2 or 4 legged animals that you may encounter.

I'm actually packing right now (I'm taking a quick break) and will be leaving tomorrow morning for a 2 to 3 week hunting/prospecting trip. I am taking 3 rifles for the different areas/animals that I'll be hunting as well as a small 22LR rifle for small game. I am taking 3 different handguns as well. My G20, 629 44mag and the SRH 454 Casull each handgun will be used in different situations with the 44mag really being a backup to the SRH.

My main goal of the trip is grizzly/moose/mountain goat/whitetail and mule deer/black bear.

Actually I was looking in the 40S&W site because I was thinking about adding a G23 to my collection.

[SDGlock23]

Don't think about adding a Glock 23, do it!! Awesome gun, really.

[mrapathy2000]

if moderate to heavy game expected forget JHP. expansion and lacking penetration could cost you dearly.

FMJ and plenty of it.

shotgun is a good idea with slugs or heavy shot.

[bush pilot]

I've never been to Georgia,what exactly roams your woods that a 40 won't stop?

Cam Cooke:

What part of BC are you from?

Go Canucks!!!

[Buckeye63]

In these parts (East Tn.) a 40S&W would do just fine for the purpose you mentioned,relly I couldn't see any advantage in pushing a 40 Cal. bullet 80 to a 100 fps. faster ,thats why i lean toward the 40 S&W, instead of the 10mm .I have a couple of 357 Ruger revolers that would work nicely.
http://onfinite.com/libraries/574731/d60.jpg

[mrapathy2000]

bullet traveling faster than 1000fps can cause cavitation. most commercial 180gr 40sw ammo flies 950-1050fps. new offerings pushing that up to 1150fps.

as speed goes up ft lbs energy goes up. bullet velocity is not a constant it drops off. sometimes bullet speed can drop off a good ammount from muzzle to 25 yards.

dust,rain,tall grass,branches and twigs stuff you would find outdoors. though I dont put much into the stopping power data it is intriging. gives no info whatsoever on wound data,suspect height,weight,physical strength. medical ailments. pre existing conditions,drug abuse. as diverse conditions and people the world has to offer.

then again 22lr can kill. a 180gr 40sw bullet moving 850fps could probably take someone out or a bear. reality is often stranger than fiction.

the velocity makes the difference when non FMJ bullet comes into play. Jacketed Hollow Point-JHP,Jacket Soft Point-JSP and the various similar exotics for Rifle. tipped ballistic.

[Poohgyrr]

I like the G23 a lot, for people and soft skinned animals that don't have massive bones, muscle, or gristle.

In .357 Magnum, Buffalo Bore sells a 180gr hard cast round that's been clocked at 1800 fps out of Lever rifles. Standing on my own two feet, my handy 16" Winchester puts 10 of these into nose size groups out to 25 yards.

I don't forget to practice, to make it easier for me to do that for real if I ever need to. This is even more true for any lightweight magnum revolver.

.41, .44, .45, and the bigger bores all have "good" rounds available. One of Glocks 10MMs, with full power ammo, and lots of good practice, could be comforting to me.

All this is just my opinion, which may be worth as much as it costs....

;c

Coonan .357 Magnum Automatic, for those times when you don't have a Glock 10mm:

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3758/coonansparks0oa.th.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coonansparks0oa.jpg)

[noway]

If you have a real concern of danger from animals in the woods, get a revolver and load it witha hardcast laod like a 44mag/45colt and don't worry about it.

here's some pills that should do a cougar/bear or most of anything else that might be threat in the lower 48 states.

All of them are hardcast keith or LBT styles weighing no less than 275grs to 360grs and in a .452 diameter.

[MOBEEBO]

WOW! This is a great thread.

;c


and that Bear?^4

[RugerFan58]

Originally posted by MOBEEBO
WOW! This is a great thread.

;c


and that Bear?^4 The guy in that picture was a Forest Ranger who shot the bear dead with his 7MM. The bear had already been shot quite a few times with a .38 by the hiker who had been eaten by the bruin. The bear was the biggest ever taken. 1600 or so pounds. If I can find the story I'll post it for you.;c

[MOBEEBO]

Originally posted by RugerFan58
The guy in that picture was a Forest Ranger who shot the bear dead with his 7MM. The bear had already been shot quite a few times with a .38 by the hiker who had been eaten by the bruin. The bear was the biggest ever taken. 1600 or so pounds. If I can find the story I'll post it for you.;c


Please do!

Wow, makes me want to pack my 870 Slug Gun with 3" MAGNUMS the next time I go camping!;f

[Wallygator]

Originally posted by Buckeye63
In these parts (East Tn.) a 40S&W would do just fine for the purpose you mentioned,relly I couldn't see any advantage in pushing a 40 Cal. bullet 80 to a 100 fps. faster ,thats why i lean toward the 40 S&W, instead of the 10mm......


...80 to 100 fps. faster? What kind of 10mm are you talking about?

Both of these are from Doubletap

165gr. @ 1200fps / 528 ft/lbs- Glock 23 (4.0"bbl)

165gr. @ 1400fps/ 718ft/lbs- Glock 20


The G20 barrel is 15mm longer than the G23. This will not make a significant difference. Keep in mind we are still talking handguns here so this discussion doesn't really mean anything but I think the difference between 10mm and .40 short and weak;) is more than what you say. Factor in the greater amount of bullet selection, among other things, with the 10mm, and you have a way more versatile, harder hitting calibur than .40 small and worthless ;e

All kidding aside I like the .40 but you can't compare it to the 10mm unless your talking bullet dimensions. These are my comments and I stand by them.;c

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/mww1968/10mmnot40sw.jpg

[Buckeye63]

40 S&W 155gr. Gold dot at 1300fps. out of a 4in. barrel (Georgia Arms) 165gr. @ 1200fps (Double tap)

I dought that a person being shot would know the Diff. between the 10mm & the 40 S&W ,Think about it..
The 10mm to the 40 S&W is like comparing a 30-06 to a 308win.

There is a difference,but really..
And I went to Wal-Mart and bought 40 S&W Rem. 180gr. HP for 20.00 for a 100 rd.s I didn't see any 10mm on the shelf , wonder why ??
as you stand by your opinion , I'll stand by mine ;f ;e

[collim1]

Ruger single action in .44 mag.

A little off topic but I always carry a rifle or shotgun on a sling whenin the woods.

870 with buckshot would give you a good chance of hitting the head of a charging animal. 30-30 probably not the best choice but it is what I have.

If your really concerned about an attack plan to have a few extra pounds to carry a rifle.

[pintobean]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FredLEFI
When I see folk talk about packing heavy revolvers - especially SAs (might not be able to work that hammer if it gets up close and ugly), I wonder how much hiking they've actually done.

-Probably far enough to get the Remote!

My wife and have hiked the Rockies from Glacier to Arizona for years. I agree with Fred. I shave weight by carrying hollow points! I have found that my Glock 36 (.45) is a wonderful compromise, with handloads that push a 230 gr rainier at a true 870 fps from a 3.77" barrell. At 27 ounces total loaded, it is 5 ounces lighter than the 23 I also own. I carry it concealed and have a permit. If you don't mind the extra weight, and conceal issues, the G23 with heavy bullet maxloads would probably be better. If I was carrying on open belt in real dangerous country I might choose a big 10mm. Outside of national parks, we have never seen a large bear.
Pintobean
Both are excellent weapons,

[pintobean]

What is the theat to a hiker in "the wilderness"?
My 20 year military career allowed me to hike many parts of the country, from California to Virginia to Alabama to Michigan.
I have never seen a bear. I have seen one Cougar and he was 50 yards away and running like hell to get away from me! I have seen many moose, all have been passive, but I am concerned. (hint: try to put a tree between you and the moose)
I have seen many snakes, rattlers, copperheads - walk away, they don't chase you!
I have encountered people of concern. (See "Deliverance")
My biggest problem has been with free running domestic dogs.
My wife is afraid of dogs, and they sense it. I naturally come between my the dog and my wife.
On at least two dozen occasions, I have restrained dogs with my hiking poles. (A barrier) On about a half a dozen occasions, I have "flicked" a dog with the pole on the neck, to warn it. On three occasions I have gone after hostile dogs with the same poles, in full swing. Once I pulled and opened (one hand, quickly) a large folding knife, prepared to attack the animals throat, if necessary.
I have never presented my Glock 36, nor will I unless there is blood drawn (mine or my wife's) then I will kill the dog.
DOG OWNERS: Control your dogs! If they don't respond to your commands, leash them! It is not incumbent on me to allow the dog to decide whether he wants to bite me or not! Don't tell me that "the dog is friendly, he doesn't bite!" Of course, he doesn't bite YOU!
There was a recent unfortunate incident in Arizona where a man was killed because his dogs attacked a hiker who was carrying a Glock 29. The dog owner became violent when his dogs were threatened by a man who felt threatened by the dogs. The court will decide whether or not the death was justified, but the whole tragic mess could have been avoided by keeping the dogs under control! Very few things annoy me more than irresponsible dog owners.
Pintobean

[Ak.Hiker]

While hiking in Alaska I have seen many bears both black as well as brown. Trust me a brown bear is not passive. As far as moose go it may just be me but I have seen some pretty agressive moose over the years. In the winter they can get real stressed. I have also come across wolves and I have never seen one run. As far as single actions go its pretty hard to beat a 4&5/8 inch Rugar Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk in 44 mag or 45 colt. Both with good heavy loads. Very easy to pack. Both are very popular in Alaska as is the Glock 10mm.

[jflimbach]

Originally posted by Ak.Hiker
While hiking in Alaska I have seen many bears both black as well as brown. Trust me a brown bear is not passive. As far as moose go it may just be me but I have seen some pretty agressive moose over the years. In the winter they can get real stressed. I have also come across wolves and I have never seen one run. As far as single actions go its pretty hard to beat a 4&5/8 inch Rugar Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk in 44 mag or 45 colt. Both with good heavy loads. Very easy to pack. Both are very popular in Alaska as is the Glock 10mm.

+1 Amen. We now have so many grizzly here in Montana that they are about to be taken off the endangered species list. A lot more contact with humans, and not all in the parks. Several fatal incidents per year on average.

Moose, despite their apparently placid looks are very, very unpredictable and dangerous. A friend of mine's son left their cabin a couple years ago to go down to the creek to fish and never returned. When they found him, he had been stomped to death by a bull moose.

The foolproof solution when hiking might be to have a buddy armed with a 50 BMG, but that's a bit impractical. A short barrelled 12 gauge slug gun might be best but sometimes unwieldy. Seems that you have to weigh the potential risk and what you think are reasonable precautions. That will vary from person to person depending on location, experience and comfort level.

My tradeoff, at the moment, is a Redhawk .44magnum with the barrel cut down to 4" packing Garrett's +P 330 grain hardcast hammerheads.
Not the last word, but makes me feel better in the woods and it's not bad to pack all day.

I certainly wouldn't go looking for a griz with it, but as a last resort it's got a chance of working.

The best precaution, unless you're hunting, is to make lots of noise which has never been a problem for me anyway.