My encounter with a Pitbull...

[Shooters Plus]

Just wanted to share a story of an encounter i had with a Pitbull dog a fews ago. I live out in the country where people are prone to dumping out dogs they no longer want. I had walked out on the porch one night to smoke (the wife won't let me smoke inside) and before i could even light the cig up, there was a mangy black pitbull that walked around the corner of the house and started growling at me. I slowly backed back into the house and grabbed the trusty G-22 and flashlight. Instead of walking back out the same door, i decided to go out the front door and sneak around to the back side of the house where he was. Instead, he met me at the side of the house and this time he was even more aggressive in his growls and attacking stance. Not wanting to give him the chance to attack first, i drew the light and G-22 up quick and shot him in the head. He fell straight down and didn't even flinch. I stayed drawed on him for about a minute just to make sure he wasn't just stunned. Still no movement, so i slowly walked up to him, when i got about 3 feet from him he jumped up and bolted away from me (lucky for me), not wanting to see a animal have to run off and suffer, i drawed and shot him while he was running (was proud of myself for that shot) in the left front shoulder, again he fell but this time he was breathing heavy and i could hear the sound of blood in his lungs. Noing he still wasn't dead, i didn't hesitate to walk up behind him and put another 40 cal. in the back of his head. I stood behind him (drawed) about five more minutes and his breathing finally stopped. Knowing he had to be dead, i decided to go back to the house to get my gloves and truck to go dispose of him. When i returned, guess what? He was gone, nothing but a pile of blood where he had layed. I took a quick look around the yard with the flashlight but there was no sign of him. I have no dou't that he ran off out in the woods and eventually died and i hate that because i don't like to see anything have to run off and suffer.
Just for the record, i do not condone anyone shooting any animal that growls at you but you have to understand that i also have two little girls ages 3 and 5 and it could have easily been either one of those that had walked out on the porch that night and been confronted by this dog. A 3 year old girl would not have slowly backed back into the house, she would have turned around running, screaming and crying and we all know what would have happened had she done that.

I'm not sure this story has a moral to it, just wanted to share. Other than maybe replacing the dog with a armed man? Don't assume when (heaven forbid you have to) shoot someone that the fight is over and they fall to the ground like you see in the movies. My brother-in-law is a detective with our local PD and last year they had to shoot an armed crackhead leaving KFC 28 times before he finally gave in. They were shooting Glock 9mm.'s. The guy was arrested and guess what, he lived!

Just so you know, the gun was a Glock 22 40cal. S&W loaded with 165 grain Hydra-Shok JHP Federal Premium's. I still have complete faith in my G-22.

[DaisyCutter]

Did you note whether your initial headshot penetrated or not. I've seen many creatures survive a headshot, but generally their muscle control goes out the window due to the associated brain damage. I've personally seen a lot of them spin or run in off-balance circles.

Pistols really aren't very powerful when compared to most rifles. With my G22, generally I figure on generating a few hits before killing anything.

Are you going to file a report?

I was pushing my kids in the stroller and walking my dog (on a leash) a while back when an unleashed Rottie charged us. I'm pretty sure it was after my dog. There was no way I was gonna be able to escape, with the kids and my dog to haul.

I met the Rottie at full stride and punted him in the chest. Two years of varsity soccer and I kicked that dog with all I had... We both came off the ground. That dog actually recovered and briefly considered another attack, but then retreated. I had a pistol and a pocket knife, but the dog was real pretty and I was sure I could stop it with a kick (I overestimated a bit). As the dog retreated the owner came and grabbed it. I hoiked my german-shepherd/chow mix over my shoulder, and moved out with the stroller. I thought the dog's owner was gonna has issues with me, but never said a word. It was a kind of surreal experience. I'd never kicked anything that heavy so hard in my life.

[manboy]

Wow, thanks for sharing that. I would think 165 JHP would instantly kill a dog. You did the right thing, you protected your family, and you didn't run away like bait. Maybe up to 180 Grain for around the house? Something a bit heavier if you need to contend with animals.

Stay Safe!

[DaisyCutter]

Originally posted by uncle z


Don't assume when (heaven forbid you have to) shoot someone that the fight is over and they fall to the ground like you see in the movies. My brother-in-law is a detective with our local PD and last year they had to shoot an armed crackhead leaving KFC 28 times before he finally gave in. They were shooting Glock 9mm.'s. The guy was arrested and guess what, he lived!



I once dumped a mag of 9mm into my old PC before throwing it away (to prevent ID theft). I recall that the sheet metal computer case deflected many of the 9mm rounds.

We all saw that DEA dude pop himself in the meat of the leg and it barely fazed him.

Police have been known to literally shoot up vehicles and few of the rounds penetrate.

An AK-47 generates nearly 5X the energy at the muzzle over a 9mm.

In my first CCW class years ago the instructor told me that too many people have way too much confidence in the perceived effectiveness of pistols.

[keltic]

I just cant understand how someone could dump their dog.I would have done the same thing.

[AWDTerror]

I live in the sticks also and people dump not only dogs but cats, rabbits, or any other domesticated animal they don't want or don't want to take care of. and there are people that have similar problems and have to take care of it themselves.

[Dandapani]

Originally posted by DaisyCutter
Are you going to file a report?


I support this suggestion. Since the dog "left" he might have returned to his "owner" and they'll file a report. You want your story on record first.

1) Shoot
2) Shovel
3) Shuddup

But since 2) didn't happen, you better skip 3) and let the LEO know you were "attacked" and defended yourself, but the dog got away!

[walkin' trails]

I talked to a cop in California one time who was telling me about shooting an attacking pit bull he encountered. He shot the dog in the chest with a .45 ACP. It killed the dog, but not instantly. He had to attend the doggie autopsy (said they treated the whole thing like a homicide). The vet sawed the top of the skull away, and the cop noted that the bone was a good inch and a half thick. Most defensive handgun rounds probably would not penetrate. Your head shot only stunned him good. Stopped him, though, which was a good thing for you. At the very least, he may avoid your place.

[Semper Gumby]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I found myself facing a pit bull with my Sig 239 .40 and was feeling like it wasnt enough. That thing was all muscle, and I wasnt 100% that I could kill it fast enough. Didnt have to shoot, but next time I see it its 12ga time for sure.

[Shooters Plus]

Are you going to file a report?
I did file a report with the local sheriffs dept. They didn't sound to interested.

and the cop noted that the bone was a good inch and a half thick
Wow... I would never had guessed any skull being that thick. I'm not sure if the 1st shot penetrated but the last headshot did penetrate as i did notice the blood.

[cjlandry]

I was visiting a friend in the country once when a mixed breed(Pit/Boxer maybe) dog started circling, growling, and barking loudly. He was a pretty Brendel dog, no mange or any signs of having spent a lifetime in the wild. My 12 ga. Winchester Defender was loaded with slugs. The first shot blew his lungs out, the second blew the back of his head out. He never took another step, and he was buried deeply nearby.

I have nothing but confidence in my 12-gauge for home defense against people or other animals. The G23 is for when the BFG is out of my reach.

[sneakyracer]

Humm Time to step up to 357sig or even 10mm


or maybe some hot 180gr. Dbl Taps...


better yet one of these:

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/Images/az-C15P21S.jpg

...dont forget your earplugs though... and the shovel ;f

[J.P.]

One of our officers hot a pit bull with 12 rounds of Win Silvertip .40 before it went down.(the dog was gnawing on the officers'leg)

[SDGlock23]

No doubt that having a pitbull gnawing on your leg doesn't give a person a lot of choice, but like with everything, I'm sure you hit one right and it won't take 12 rds.

[DaisyCutter]

Especially if you hit it with a .45ACP...;) ;Q

One gun instructor once told me, "The effects of shooting any living creature with a firearm are literally a total crap-shoot".

Had it been a different pitbull or a different bullet or even a different angle, it's possible that the dog would've folded like a cheap tent. Ya never know.

[New York Hunter]

Originally posted by SDGlock23
No doubt that having a pitbull gnawing on your leg doesn't give a person a lot of choice, but like with everything, I'm sure you hit one right and it won't take 12 rds. Thats easier to say when its not "your leg" he is gnawing on!:)

[SDGlock23]

Haha, you do have a point! ;c

[Hobear]

BS

[nickn]

looks like ill be ordering some 200 gr. XTPs for my G20 soon ;P good story.

[bruce21b]

thats interesting...if a 40 cal handgun wont do much to a pit bull without multiple shots, dont you thing all these "what pistol should i carry for BEAR defense" should be put to rest???????:)

[J.P.]

Originally posted by SDGlock23
No doubt that having a pitbull gnawing on your leg doesn't give a person a lot of choice, but like with everything, I'm sure you hit one right and it won't take 12 rds.

I forgot to mention he's a police officer,firearms tactics instructor,gunfight veteran, and the current IDPA state champion.

[MeatGrinder]

I shot a huge groundhog with 45 ball ammo. Hit him in the side behind the shoulder. It went right through him. He didn't move an inch, just rolled over and died.
I wonder if the ol' 45 is better.

[G27dogmannfl]

totally support your decision to shoot the dog but why didnt you just dump a few more rounds instead of watching the dog die? i would have just kept shooting instead of listening to his lungs fill up with blood you said you dont want any animal to go off and suffer well why not just make sure he is dead at that point?

[Shooters Plus]

Originally posted by G27dogmannfl
totally support your decision to shoot the dog but why didnt you just dump a few more rounds instead of watching the dog die? i would have just kept shooting instead of listening to his lungs fill up with blood you said you dont want any animal to go off and suffer well why not just make sure he is dead at that point?
Well, if you read the complete story you'll see where i did put an extra round in his head. This was the first time i have shot a living creature with my G22 (many times with rifle and scatter gun) and i had no idea that it could withstand so many shots. Plus all i wanted to do was kill him... not execute him. It was a lesson learned.

[G23lover]

Originally posted by Hobear
BS


I second that!!!!!

[G27dogmannfl]

Originally posted by uncle z
Well, if you read the complete story you'll see where i did put an extra round in his head. This was the first time i have shot a living creature with my G22 (many times with rifle and scatter gun) and i had no idea that it could withstand so many shots. Plus all i wanted to do was kill him... not execute him. It was a lesson learned.

ok I did read the complete story and i read that you stood there for 5 minutes while you listened to him stop breathing. IMHO that is not trying to kill an animal without making him suffer 5 minutes is a long time to be in respiratory distress while your lungs are being filled with blood. ;g

[Wallygator]

If you shot him once already...


FINISH HIM!!;I

[Wallygator]

I also feel the "which handgun for bear" threads are kind of funny now also. Pitbulls are really tough animals. Check out these pitbull vs. porcupine pics.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/mww1968/pic24021.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/mww1968/pic04596.jpg

[Shooters Plus]

Originally posted by uncle z
again he fell but this time he was breathing heavy and i could hear the sound of blood in his lungs. Noing he still wasn't dead, i didn't hesitate to walk up behind him and put another 40 cal. in the back of his head. I stood behind him (drawed) about five more minutes and his breathing finally stopped. Knowing he had to be dead,
G27dogmannfl - May want to go back and read again as your still missing it. The quote above should clear up your misunderstanding. I believe what your not understanding is that after the second shot to the left shoulder, he fell and i could then here the blood in his lungs. If you read after that you will see that i shot him again (3rd shot) in the back of the head. His breathing stopped shortly after that (3rd shot) but i continued to stay drawed on him an additional 5 minutes to make sure he was dead and didn't move or breath. But he fooled me.

[Hobear]

Man, that's brutal. I'm guessing that animal had to be anesthetized for quill removal. Out of curiousity, how'd the porcipine fare?

[G27dogmannfl]

uncle z i apologize i did misunderstand what you were saying. ^2 no pics of the porcupine unfortunately but i think you can see some blood around the pits mouth not sure if thats the porcupines blood though or the pits :)

[Big Sexy Glock]

Great story uncle z.
Thanks for sharing it with us.

Story's like this reaffirm the fact that when the SHTF there's nothing quite like the 12 gauge.

[squint]

Slight change of subject - is the doggie/pin cushion a bull terrier ?

[milsurpcollectr]

I would never feel bad for shooting a dog on your property especially one as vicious as a pit bull. Its always better to take a rifle to a gun fight.

the reason the sheriff didnt seem to care was that its a non issue. It was totally within your rights to shoot the dog. (at least in missouri it would be)

[147 Grain]

Poor dog! :(

that porcupine must be bald after tussling with the dog.

[MARTIN FISHER]

I was just wondering, were those the old, lower powered 165 Hydra-shocks? If so I would replace them with 155 Hydras or Gold dots in any weight. While I was an officer, I had to shoot many dogs for various reasons and with many different loads/guns.

The 230 gr. +p Hollow points worked best in the 45 from my Sig P220. The 180,165,155 always did the job in the Glock 35 and 23.

By the way, I never got a pistol bullet to exit a big dogs skull, they are very tough.

Oh, about the the dog abouve with all the quills HOLY CRAP MAN! ;P

[Shooters Plus]

Originally posted by MARTIN FISHER
I was just wondering, were those the old, lower powered 165 Hydra-shocks?
Hey Martin, i wasn't aware that the older Hydra-Shoks were a lower power. I've always assumed that a 165gr. Hydra-Shok JHP was a 165gr. Hydra-Shok JHP. To answer your question, they were probably 10 to 12 months old.

[SDGlock23]

I've never cared for hydrashoks. Not saying your results would have been 100% different had you used a better bullet, but it's possible it could have made a difference.

[xd>glock2me]

I guess the only thing I am taking from this is that I would never ever use that type of ammo. I think a .40 is an ok gun, but stories like this make me realize why I carry a 10mm or .45 ACP.

Maybe you should keep the 22 loaded up with extreme shocks ;f

[MARTIN FISHER]

Originally posted by uncle z
Hey Martin, i wasn't aware that the older Hydra-Shoks were a lower power. I've always assumed that a 165gr. Hydra-Shok JHP was a 165gr. Hydra-Shok JHP. To answer your question, they were probably 10 to 12 months old.

Yep, the 165 gr. Hydra-Shocks where a medium velocity load.

[Catbird]

Originally posted by uncle z
I'm not sure this story has a moral to it...

The moral is:

http://www.newtunings.com/kidmid/healthsongs/smoking/dontsmoke.html

[Shooters Plus]

Originally posted by Catbird
The moral is:

http://www.newtunings.com/kidmid/healthsongs/smoking/dontsmoke.html
Yep... Your right. I knew they had to be a moral to the story in there somewhere.

And one day i'll muster up enough will power to actually quit. Just hope its not too late when i do. :)

[kalashnikovluvr]

Man i'm amazed the .40 didn't kill it on the spot, i hope my .45 does the job if i ever need to, but after reading this, if i do need to shoot a dog, the hell with one round to the head, i'm putting three into the MFer

[sneakyracer]

Originally posted by kalashnikovluvr
Man i'm amazed the .40 didn't kill it on the spot, i hope my .45 does the job if i ever need to, but after reading this, if i do need to shoot a dog, the hell with one round to the head, i'm putting three into the MFer

A Rabid dog can take multiple hits of almost any handgun caliber and keep on ticking for more than a few seconds. Id say only when you get into [energy] 357 magnum full power loads and above then you might start seeing some quicker stops.

Ive seen a rabid dog take 10 380acp rounds and keep going like nothing [we could see blood but he was still showing teeth and acting mean]. That same dog went down quick after a few hits of 357. [body hits, dog on the move not easy to hit]

[kalashnikovluvr]

Well i got a 357 mag also, along with a few 12 ga shotties and high power rifles, i think if i need to that my lil' "armory" with be more than enuff to take down a dog:)

[LAWDOGKMS]

10 years ago, my Pitbull/Rottweiler mix, "Jake" got off his 50 ft. "cable run" in the backyard, and got hit by a car on a nearby highway..

A neighbor told me what had happened later in the afternoon.

When I finally found out about it, and called the local PD, they asked me to come down to the pd, and when I arrived, gave me a citation for an unrestrained animal.

Knowing I was going to have to go to court, I obtained a copy of the officers's report at the dog vs car accident..

The report stated that he was bleeding from his rear end, still alert and trying to get up, laying in the hwy, and being a large dog,(they assumed dangerous as well) they drug him onto a yellow emergency blanket with a rope, drug him off the road, and shot him in the skull..

FWIW: Jake looked nothing like a rottweiler, but instead like a 100 lb pitbull..

The report went on to say that the officers transported him to the local county dump (20 mins away), and while getting him out of the trunk, the officers discovered he was still alive and alert, and fired two more rounds into his chest area..

So....yeah....in my experience, pitbulls can take a lot of abuse and still live..

What pissed me off about this whole episode, is that I was asleep (because I was working nights) at my house not 75 yards from where this all took place, and if they had looked at his collar, my telephone # and name was on it..and they could have called me to the scene and let me decide what to do with him.

Instead the officers were terrified of the pit bull breed, and just shot him instead..I was real upset at the officers at the time..

Knowing what I know now, ten years later, I probably would have done the same thing..