Shot some .40S&W in my stock G20

[spoolboy]

Shot some .40S&W in my stock G20 10mm. Didn't have a .40 barrel. Some PMC 10mm to compare.

This is what happened:

http://www.fwdmopar.com/sites/dennis/primers1.jpg

http://www.fwdmopar.com/sites/dennis/primers2.jpg

Pierced primers.

Won't do that again until I get a proper .40 barrel...which is on the way.

[PaleGreenHorse]

Wow, that was not responsible, and dangerous to boot. Not only did you put your life in danger but even worse you could have damaged an innocent Glock 20. Maybe a firearms saftey course would help you, and if not get started now on physical therapy for the loss of future fingers.

[Akita]

How many total rounds? How'd your extractor hold up?

You Really need to get a FedArms 40 barrel while theres still some floating around, but I think you already know that.

[Turk40SW]

woulda sucked to have a blown apart hand, huh?

[spoolboy]

I shot six .40S&W's total. Got six pierced primers.

That's all the .40's I'll ever shoot in this barrel.

If you look around on here, there are a few people that claim this is safe to do. I wanted to see for myself. I understand what happens when a primer is pierced. Some people may not notice and think that this is OK. MAYBE they'll read this and see what I did and that this is bad. How many people even pick up and inspect their brass?

It's my hand and my gun. No innocent bystanders would have been injured. I am not new to guns (been reloading and shooting since I was 8).

Read above where I say that I have a Federal barrel on the way already. ;Q

No dammage to gun. Although starting before this, I get an occasional light primer hit. I guess it's time to look at the striker/spring/cups/channel liner.

[Akita]

Read above where I say that I have a Federal barrel on the way already.

Well, the post actually sez "a proper 40 barrel". I guess the "Federal" was implied. I beg your forgiveness for my error.

[4TS&W]

..and for my next trick...

watch me shoot a 12 ga using only a hammer and a nail! ;g ;c

[9mm +p+]

I've tried the same thing in my S&W 1006 and it works just fine. The only problem I had was a couple of time it didn't cycle the slide all of the with some lighter powered loads. No pierced primers etc. Would I do it all of the time... no, but it can be done with a properly set up pistol, I've heard of many people with S&W's doing it with no problems, obviously Glocks are a no go. Anyone tried the Witness or Delta?

[noway]

Use the correct ammo specified on the side of the bbl. Nothing more or less.

And with that said the only 10mm that can shot 40sw safely is a revolver ( i.e S&W model 610 )

[redskyzatknight]

Exactly why I don't buy used guns.

[Tito]

Try shooting some 9mm +P+ sometime.

[4eyes]

I have shot long loaded 40s, loaded specifically to try in 10MM, in both a G20 and a S&W 1006. Accurate in both guns and no probs.

[FATSEXY]

Originally posted by redskyzatknight
Exactly why I don't buy used guns.

[spoolboy]

Ok, so the question is why did I get THAT result? [insert smart-azz comment here "Cause you shot the wrong ammo!"] Pierced primers are usually from a firing pin that protrudes too far. If anything the case would be too far from the firing pin.

FYI, I will never sell this gun. I've owned it for 14 years.

[noway]

{Exactly why I don't buy used guns}

so what does a used gun have todo in this case? the same would happen with a brand new gun.

[spoolboy]

Originally posted by noway
{Exactly why I don't buy used guns}

so what does a used gun have todo in this case? the same would happen with a brand new gun.

I think what he's implying is that you don't know if I was the PO of said used gun, and what I might have tried while I owned it.

I just tore down the G20 and inspected the striker, etc. No damage done. Magazine/well was awful dirty tho.

[spoolboy]

After sitting here and looking things over while cleaning, it seems like the "loose and tapered" factory chamber allows the short .40s to chamber at a very slight angle, which is why the above happened. You'll notice that the firing pin hits the primer off center to the left because of this. Hitting the primer at an angle with the "edge" of the firing pin, I believe, is what has pierced them.

With a tighter chamber this might have worked OK, or might not. Obviously it can work with some guns and some ammo.

[redskyzatknight]

I think you know better noway, but here's my opinion: The bullet is traveling over a gap. It should'nt. It will widen what holds the case mouth causing jams (by hammering the case mouth further into a larger circumference area) and gas leaks in the chamber. Again, my opinion. That firing pin is touching off the primers fine but the bullet is back behind where the rifling starts. Look at a well used revolver barrel. Those bullets are reaming the barrel in front of the chamber. I could see a loss in accuracy and velocity as well, again IMO. Used guns are just a gamble, period. You want to buy that 20 after he's done experimenting? I don't.

EDITED TO ADD: I'm not dissing spoolboy, BTW. He has pic's and he seems to know what he's talking about. I have my opinions and you all have your's. The difference after 100 rds. would be so slight, an experienced bullseye shooter might not know the difference. I believe if you put a 357 revolver in a vice strapped to a sherman tank, you'd get better accuracy from 357 loads over 38 loads. Held in the hand, you may do better with the 38 due to recoil. I just know my G20 barrel will never shoot a 40 round.

[ILikeFtLbs]

Could also be that the G20 is meant to set off large pistol primers, not small. The force is the same, but the firing pin may different right? I do not have a G22 to compare, so I could be wrong. It looks in the pictures like the firing pin cut the rim too.

[SDGlock23]

I honestly didn't realize how awkwardly HUGE those large primers look on the 10mm!

[9mm +p+]

Originally posted by noway
Use the correct ammo specified on the side of the bbl. Nothing more or less.

And with that said the only 10mm that can shot 40sw safely is a revolver ( i.e S&W model 610 ) I understand your point but it doesn't hold water. My 357's are all marked as such but 38's can be fired safely, same with 22 LR etc. My opinion is if it will handle the loads safely why not use them? My 1006 will handle them and if I didn't have any 10mm ammo on hand and really needed to use the 10mm guess what it would be loaded with 40's. It depends on each indvidual weapon.

[noway]

{I understand your point but it doesn't hold water. My 357's are all marked as such but 38's can be fired safely, }

It does hold water cause the mfg ( for this gun G20 ) listed the caliber on the side plus in the user manual that you should have and read\, that tellsyou DON"T use anything else.

All 357mag I've ever own states in the user manual that you should have read btw, that 38spc is okay to shoot. I never seen a 10mm ( semi-auto) handgun state the same except for a revolver known as 610 ;)

The same wholes true for 44mag and 44spc.

{My opinion is if it will handle the loads safely why not use them?}

and how do you know it will handle all 40sw safely? Did you confer with the mfg? or made an assumption?

You are making an asumption based on a limted running of 40sw thru your gun, with no obvious signs of damage or any issues and then saying it's safe. If the gun was safe to use with 40sw and 10mm ammo, the mfg WOULD HAVE stated that in the user manual. I have the 1076/1086 and with the user manual, my manuals states the opposite and even warns of using 40sw in the 10mm. The glock manual also states what you can ue in a 10mm also, and 40sw is not listed as a approve caliber.

The user manual for a gun like the 610 that I refer'd to earlier states the 40sw/10mm is okay in the revolver. Use what you think is best for you but don't complain if you gun blows up or in the case of the orginal poster pierce primers.

{ I think you know better noway,}

No my, question was gear'd at why you won't buy a used gun? Is it due to the unsafe practice that a person may have done? or something else. That was the whole intended question. I was really curious if you where suspicious of pre-own guns vrs a new gun.
;)

[redskyzatknight]

noway, that's it, I'm suspicious of how the gun may have been treated/used/abused by the PO. Anyway, if you'll be nailing any hogs this weekend or next week, I'll be in WPB. Send me a p.m. if theres room for another.

[nobody123]

Life is tough....it is tougher if you are stupid.

[W30]

Originally posted by 4TS&W
..and for my next trick...

watch me shoot a 12 ga using only a hammer and a nail! ;g ;c

Worked well on the movie Phantasm. Oh, I fergot, that b a movie! ;P

[nickE10mm]

Originally posted by noway
Use the correct ammo specified on the side of the bbl. Nothing more or less.

+1, that is an easy rule to follow, too. I've heard it can be done as well, but would you stake your life or someone else's on it?

[W30]

+1 No kidding. Seems like a no brainer to me. Guess not though.

[lostinvt]

The primers in the .40 cases are blown because of the pressure. Look at the flattened primers...how they "flowed" and filled the gap by the brass.

Besides the answer that .40 is not made to fire in a 10mm, why did that happen? What caused the pressure to spike? My guess is that it was the way that the case headspaced. Headspacing off of the extractor doesn't allow the case to remain centered in the chamber when the firing pin strikes. The brass pivots towards the extractor in the chamber and the bullet strikes the edge where the chamber stops and the rifling starts.

Rather than being centered in the bore, the bullet is fired towards the right side of the chamber, and the lip that the 10mm brass headspaces oof of. It's just like an obstruction in the bore, and the pressure spikes...causing flattened and blown primers.

Does it happen in every Glock 20...nope, some have gotten away with it due to varying tolerances in the extractor, case rim thickness, chamber dimensions, and bullet style.

That's just my guess. Anyone else got any ideas. BTW, I'd rather spend time trying to figure out why it doesn't work than ridicule the person. Seems that he figured it out all by himself and how to fix it, so the other comments are a bit redundant. JMOO. LIV

[4eyes]

Originally posted by lostinvt
The primers in the .40 cases are blown because of the pressure. Look at the flattened primers...how they "flowed" and filled the gap by the brass.

Besides the answer that .40 is not made to fire in a 10mm, why did that happen? What caused the pressure to spike? My guess is that it was the way that the case headspaced. Headspacing off of the extractor doesn't allow the case to remain centered in the chamber when the firing pin strikes. The brass pivots towards the extractor in the chamber and the bullet strikes the edge where the chamber stops and the rifling starts.

Rather than being centered in the bore, the bullet is fired towards the right side of the chamber, and the lip that the 10mm brass headspaces oof of. It's just like an obstruction in the bore, and the pressure spikes...causing flattened and blown primers.

Does it happen in every Glock 20...nope, some have gotten away with it due to varying tolerances in the extractor, case rim thickness, chamber dimensions, and bullet style.

That's just my guess. Anyone else got any ideas. BTW, I'd rather spend time trying to figure out why it doesn't work than ridicule the person. Seems that he figured it out all by himself and how to fix it, so the other comments are a bit redundant. JMOO. LIV

Well reasoned post, LIV. Let me add some thoughts: Primers are flattening, in this instance, because loose headspacing allowed primer to back out to the breachface under pressure- shot brass slammed the primer and smashed the primer flatter. No high pressures involved. Any number of reloading manuals will support this.

Primer piercing happens when the primer has been forced out of the pocket while the striker still protrudes through the breachface and will not happen as often if harder primers are used instead of the Federal primers (Feds are the softest primers--lowest brisance--of any commercial primer).

The bullet hitting the chamber stop will increase pressures less than when the bullet engages the riflings (or bore). Again I contend that high pressures and potential KBs are not an issue here.

Spoolboy, thanks for posting your experiment in hopes that only rational experimentors will try to duplicate your efforts and the PCers will only shoot 10mm ammo in their 10 mm pistols.

[9mm +p+]

a

[JinVA]

I put 50 rounds of Miwall 40S&W through my G20.
No primer damage, no case damage. I could tell the slide was cycling a smidgen more slowly. POI was not affected at the range I was shooting.