stock G20 What is your best group?

[boarhunter]

Ilooking for any info on The G20 Range report..I own one and woundering if it is worth buying a better barrel to get a better group.. the only thing I have changed so far is the main spring to a wolf spring setup, And I only shoot double tap amo ..The gun shoots flawless but at 30 to 40 yards it needs to get tighten up !I want to use it for hunting ,And most shots will be 20 to 30 yards....Thanks John

[noway]

1 .25" @25yrds offhand and the target is on the refrig using blazer 200gr factory ammo. A aftermarket bbl is not going to automatically give you a better group if you don't master the art of the trigger pull ;)

Nothings wrong with the stock barrel and accuracy. Too many people are quick to blame the gun/ammo before look at their selves.

just my honest opinion

[boarhunter]

Your right about mastering the trigger pull......Thats a nice group at 25 yards.

[Glockman454]

Originally posted by boarhunter
Ilooking for any info on The G20 Range report..I own one and woundering if it is worth buying a better barrel to get a better group.. the only thing I have changed so far is the main spring to a wolf spring setup, And I only shoot double tap amo ..The gun shoots flawless but at 30 to 40 yards it needs to get tighten up !I want to use it for hunting ,And most shots will be 20 to 30 yards....Thanks John

John,

My Glock 20 is all stock except for Meprolight sights. At 25 yards I can maintain a 3 inch group.

I am not as experienced as some on GlockTalk, but have owned Glocks for a few years. Once you can master the feel of the trigger, then you will tighten your group pretty fast with some practice.

[kestrou]

I got 1 5/8 inches with 5 shots at 25 yards off a sandbag with a stock barrel - but I think the wind was cooperating that day and blowing them all to the center of the target! ;f

kestrou

[HighVelocity]

Unless you're going to be using cast bullets instead of jacketed, you can't do much better than the stock barrel. ;f

http://webpages.charter.net/silverspurs21/range/122204G20.jpg

[HAMMERHEAD]

The stock barrel is exelent, probably the best stock Glock barrel.
One thing, besides a lot of trigger time, that really improved my shooting is a set of Heinie Slant Pro sights. They actually shoot better for me than the Bo-Mar adjustables. The sharp crisp edges make for a glare free sight picture. I can't wait to get them on my new 17L!
Right now my 20 is shooting groups half the size of the 17L's, even with my .40 conversion barrel. Like the previous poster, I get great groups with CCI 200 grain Blazer and Federal Eagle180 grain.

[boarhunter]

Thanks all for some info. I do need to change my stocks sights, they just dont cut it! The Hinine sights seem to be the best for clean edge very sharp / need for better groups ..at least this is what I found and speaking to other glock geeks..

[Wallygator]

I have no experience but wouldn't some sort of optical sight or a small scope be better for hunting at that range? Also I just put a Wolfe steel guide rod and 21# spring in my 29 and I swear it shoots tighter groups. Don't know if it's in my head or has something to do with better controlled recoil but it shoots better than before.

[MXRacer101]

Personally, I think the stock G20 barrel sucks because of its very loose tolerances and lack of chamber support. I can still get 3” (good day) – 4” (bad day) group’s free hand at 25 yards. I hope to improve that when Bar-Sto ships my *@#&, in-stock barrel within 2 months.

[nickE10mm]

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=389690

check out this thread

[MXRacer101]

Personally I believe the results in the thread provided are exaggerated. Notice that the thread poster cut (removed) the splatter targets off of the original target that it was stuck on. Nice try, but a 50 yard range warrior, I’m not buying it.

In reality, a stock Glock is capable of shooting 3” groups at 25 yards. Anything better, I would have to be very skeptical. If anyone can shoot better from a stock Glock with such loose tolerances and poor sights, needs to purchase a custom 1911 and start shooting competition matches IMO.

[noway]

{In reality, a stock Glock is capable of shooting 3” groups at 25 yards. Anything better, I would have to be very skeptical.}

will it can be done. The barrel is one thing but you also have to factor in the trigger. the trigger accounts for more than 95% of the accuracy than what the bbl does.

In honesty, since the orginal poster stated "do I need a bbl" I want to bring to light that I have a modify striker. ( reduce firing pin spring, #3.5 connector, titanium firing-pin, all parts polished )

>So Is the stock bbl as accurate as most 3rd party bbl stuff, YES it is ! Can a Glock with stock bbl and re-work trigger get sub 3" groups @25yrds, sure no problem have done on more than a few ocassion offhand with my reloads and factory stuff.

>Can a complete stock glock 20 with factory bbl get sub 3" groups and fired off-hand? Yes!

Here's my 1st outing with a 100% stock glock using longshot. Upper 5 shots where under or right at 2 3/8" measued at the outter holes. The bottom flyer with the word "why", destroyed a rather nice group. All done off hand with a G20 with stock bbl and polished internals. Same load shoot from a sitting brac position offers all holes touching.

btw:I have hundreds of picture with the same outcome and even smaller all done with stock glock 10mms.

[MXRacer101]

Originally posted by noway
will it can be done. The barrel is one thing but you also have to factor in the trigger. the trigger accounts for more than 95% of the accuracy than what the bbl does.


In my target pistols, I find that barrel to slide, and frame to slide fit make a big difference. And yes, a good trigger is a big benefit. I couldn't hit my arse when I first started shooting Glocks.

Originally posted by noway
Here's my 1st outing with a 100% stock glock using longshot. Upper 5 shots where under or right at 2 3/8" measued at the outter holes. The bottom flyer with the word "why", destroyed a rather nice group.

Flyers are common with stock military type weapons because of the loose tolerances. Some flyers are from human elements, but not all are.

[noway]

{Flyers are common with stock military type weapons because of the loose tolerances. Some flyers are from human elements, but not all are.}

I had to laugh at that loose tolerance nonsense. THIS gun has put out groups under 2" with it's so called loose tolerance. It isn't a match grade gun but like you said later "human element" is probably the cause in this grouping due to a bunch of possibilities.

( here's just afew )

target blowing in the breeze on the range
shooter was fatigue
shooter had lack of concentration
shooter wasn't using a rest or other support to gurantee same shot/same spot
shooter who happen to handload these rounds could have place more or less powder in that one round

So if you look at the trend the shooter was probably more of the issue than the bbl or slide to bbl fit. If somebody thinks just adding a 3rd party bbl is going to "automatically" increase their accuracy, then go ahead and believe that. The factory stock glock is very accurate for what it is intended for and unless you can place the gun in a ransom rest to rule out any shooter introduce factors , then that's the only way to determine the accuracy of the gun.

[MXRacer101]

Originally posted by noway
I had to laugh at that loose tolerance nonsense.

I guess I have the only Glock 20 with an oversized chamber, so much so that factory ammo freely rattles around in it.

[MXRacer101]

Here are some results from a stock model 35 fired in a Ransom Rest at 25 yards. I was unable to find any results for the G20. Use these numbers +.5" - +1" for averages for off-handed mortals. I have shot better groups, but if you consider averages, the stock Glock should be around the 3"-3.5" neighborhood IMO. Most people, on an average, will not out-shoot a Ransom Rest.

Shooting Glock’s .40 S&W Model 35
Factory load Velocity (fps) Velocity Variation (fps) 25-Yard Accuracy (Inches)

Black Hills 180-gr. FMJ 1031 26 2.58
Remington 165-gr. Golden Saber 1168 32 3.67
Black Hills 180-gr. FMJ 1031 26 2.58
Cor-Bon 165-gr. JHP 1173 23 3.08
Black Hills 180-gr. FMJ 1031 26 2.58
Winchester 180-gr. FMJ (subsonic) 993 20 3.04
Winchester WinClean 180-gr. FMJ 972 21 2.71

http://www.e-gun.net/portal/article.php?sid=83

[Wallygator]

Our we forgetting this a pistol we are talking about? One of the most reliable out there I might add. Who cares what my group is at 25 to 50 yards? I know it is more than accurate enough within self defense ranges. Oh NO! your 5 inch barreled pistol shoot 3-4 inch groups at 25 yards. SO WHAT! Get over it and buy a rifle with a scope if you want to be accurate at greater distances. It's a handgun!:soap:

[spoolboy]

As long as I do my part, I can get under 3" @ 25yds with any ammo I have tried, including some "sloppy" light reloads my friend and I made on a progressive press. Best ever was a "lucky" 2" group offhand with some Blazer 200gr (I can't find this ammo anymore, did they discontinue it???)

I had a "lightning strike" striker and light striker spring, which did help my shooting, but it went full-auto for a couple of rounds on two occasions, so I took that stuff out and put back the factory striker and spring and gave the striker and trigger bar a light polish. I can still shoot as well, I just have to put more of my attention on my right index finger, which occasionally results in less attention to the sights... and you can guess the outcome.

The only other parts in my gun are a recoil absorbing guide rod (which I have mixed feelings about) and an upgraded ejector/extractor (to prevent cases from hitting me). My gun is one of the earliest 1st gen guns. I bought it the first year they were released. It has eaten quite a few full-house loads, and is fairly "loose" in the chamber area.

[noway]

3 other loads that are factory that have been exceptional in my G20s and other 10s have been the triton 155gr quikshok and the federal 155gr hi-shok. The lite and easily 180gr hydrashock has also been a very accurate round. Double tap 220gr loads has also been a vey good round for accuracy.

Here's a big grouping of 200XTP fired from a stock glock ( no mods whatsoever ) and all done at the 25yrds line. Loaded with VN350 7.4 iirc.

[noway]

For comparison my most accurate 10mm is a 1076sw. It has loose barrel/slide fit, is much used and from SA pull it's very accurate. Heck even the DA pull is accurate, I can shot into that same big circle @25yrds and hit everytime always from DA-only.


Here's a simple group shot @25yrds using 180gr GD-HP, load information is not known but the powder was probably 800x or longshot. It too was fired from off-hand and for reference that inside circle is less than 3" in diameter. I did cause a flyer also at the lower 8 O'clock position, which is common btw for most right-hand person a la the dreaded low left .

btw:

{I guess I have the only Glock 20 with an oversized chamber, so much so that factory ammo freely rattles around in it.}

I have never seen a gun muchless a glock that you can load a round in, and it rattles around in the chamber. Maybe the barrel rattling but surely not the ammo. All of my glocks bbls have a slight rattles and ONLY when the action is locked open. If the slide is closed I have slight movement from the recoilrod springs-tension not holding the slide tight to the frame and the slide rocking back & forth on the locking block (?) and only if the gun is unloaded.

Noway ( look my screen name ) does it make any other rattles unless the trigger is pull and the firing pin is rattling in the slide assembly.


10mm guns (glock) for the most part, all the most accurate gun I have even own and fired. I would rate it better than most 9mm and 45acp glocks of the same size.

"long live the 10mm"

[nickE10mm]

Originally posted by noway
... Double tap 220gr loads has also been a vey good round for accuracy...

I concur. I routinely shot sub 2" groups with my Kimber ST2 10mm and shot a few sub 1" groups with the DT 220 gr loading. I heard a rumor that Mike was having a hard time getting more of them.... ....

[MXRacer101]

Originally posted by noway
I have never seen a gun muchless a glock that you can load a round in, and it rattles around in the chamber.

Sorry, I didn’t clarify what I was talking about. When I first purchased this G20 I was aware of the lack of 6 o’clock support, so the first thing I did when I brought it home was field strip it and check the chamber support.

With the barrel removed from the pistol, drop in a 10mm round and check the chamber support. My chamber is oversized and a round in it will rattle around freely. I was told that this is normal for the G20. I know that the Glock isn’t built to be a tack driver, but my other duty weapons are not as loose in the chamber tolerances (one is a Glock 32). I immediately felt it was in my best interests to order a Bar-Sto Match Target and have it fitted to the slide. With the oversized chamber and lack of 6 o’clock support, it was obvious that if I want to reload my brass, I should purchase a barrel with better support. I have been told that some do reload on the stock barrel, but I would think the brass would stretch, bulge and eventually be stressed out at the high pressures of the FP 10mm loads.

[MXRacer101]

Originally posted by Wallygator
Who cares what my group is at 25 to 50 yards? I know it is more than accurate enough within self defense ranges. Oh NO! your 5 inch barreled pistol shoot 3-4 inch groups at 25 yards. SO WHAT!

I agree that 3” groups is more that adequate for a defense weapon, but you are forgetting that some people want to hunt with a G20.

With the trajectory of the a FP 10mm being +/- 1” at 100 yards this gives a 10mm pistol serious potential of a hunting side arm for small game. I purchased the G20 for this very reason and to replace a heavy, 6” 357 revolver.

If a pistol is shooting 3” at 25 yards, then what is it doing at 75-100 yards other than missing targets? I am hopping that with a set of melted Bo-Mar sights and a fitted barrel, just might allow a G20 the accuracy close to that of a revolver at such distances. That’s my current project. I have done it successfully with a custom long slide 1911 in 45 Super, now I am planning on the same with a G20. If I fail, it will be range toy.

[noway]

Regardless, hunting with a pistol unscope or any optics ehancement, is very hard todo at 75-100yrds. The caliber is quite up to the task, but most hunters are not. you might be getting 3" sub groups @25yrds but you might have 1-2ft or more @100yrds. Their's no general scale or rule on the grouping increase based on distance alone.

My general rule is to place a 6" target ( typical kill zone on a broadside deer ) , the max-effective range , is determine if you can place a 10rds mag on that 6" dot ALL of the time at a distance X , then thats y our max distance.

A additional 3rd bbl party might make a sml difference but most shooters will not see it, but alot more other factors will determine if you can hit that target at distance X.

You run a greater chance of missing or not getting a clean kill and the energy levels to achieve a good penetrating shots, quickly dies off at greater distance. Handguns are like bow, a close in weapons for hunting.

IMHO: if you want rifle accuracy, then get a rifle ;)

[Wallygator]

Originally posted by MXRacer101
I agree that 3” groups is more that adequate for a defense weapon, but you are forgetting that some people want to hunt with a G20.

With the trajectory of the a FP 10mm being +/- 1” at 100 yards this gives a 10mm pistol serious potential of a hunting side arm for small game. I purchased the G20 for this very reason and to replace a heavy, 6” 357 revolver.

If a pistol is shooting 3” at 25 yards, then what is it doing at 75-100 yards other than missing targets? I am hopping that with a set of melted Bo-Mar sights and a fitted barrel, just might allow a G20 the accuracy close to that of a revolver at such distances. That’s my current project. I have done it successfully with a custom long slide 1911 in 45 Super, now I am planning on the same with a G20. If I fail, it will be range toy.


I see your point. The grouping could be too far off at those hunting distances. Good luck and I hope your project turns out to be successful.

[MXRacer101]

Originally posted by noway
Regardless, hunting with a pistol unscope or any optics ehancement, is very hard todo at 75-100yrds. The caliber is quite up to the task, but most hunters are not. you might be getting 3" sub groups @25yrds but you might have 1-2ft or more @100yrds. Their's no general scale or rule on the grouping increase based on distance alone.


Correct, it is extremely hard to get any consistency at that range. A minor flinch will end up not even hitting a target. This is not my idea pistol range, just potential. I practice at this range, but personally, I haven’t used a pistol on game beyond 75 yards in the past.

Originally posted by noway
My general rule is to place a 6" target ( typical kill zone on a broadside deer ) , the max-effective range , is determine if you can place a 10rds mag on that 6" dot ALL of the time at a distance X , then thats y our max distance.


Sounds like good advise.

Originally posted by noway
A additional 3rd bbl party might make a sml difference but most shooters will not see it, but alot more other factors will determine if you can hit that target at distance X.


Agreed, modifications will mean nothing if the shooter can not do their part. I feel quite confident that if I can get the groups tighter on the G20, it might be accurate enough to replace my revolver, where as it is currently not.

Originally posted by noway
You run a greater chance of missing or not getting a clean kill and the energy levels to achieve a good penetrating shots, quickly dies off at greater distance. Handguns are like bow, a close in weapons for hunting.
IMHO: if you want rifle accuracy, then get a rifle ;)


The G20 would used as a backup side arm to my rifles, not the primary weapon. If the G20 was the primary, then I would hunt at archery distances from a tree stand. We generally stir up javalina, feral hogs and an occasional deer when reloading the feeders, gathering fire wood, or simply cutting up at the deer camp. This is when the G20 would come into play. Basically, when the rifles are not available and/or open bolted.

[MXRacer101]

Originally posted by boarhunter
Ilooking for any info on The G20 Range report..I own one and woundering if it is worth buying a better barrel to get a better group.. the only thing I have changed so far is the main spring to a wolf spring setup, And I only shoot double tap amo ..The gun shoots flawless but at 30 to 40 yards it needs to get tighten up !I want to use it for hunting ,And most shots will be 20 to 30 yards....Thanks John

To answer your question directly, if you are consistently shooting 3” (+/- .5”) groups at 25 yards and/or planning on reloading brass, then a replacement barrel might be in your best interests. I’m still awaiting my Bar-Sto, so I can’t comment on the results at this time.

Direct quote from Bar-Sto’s website: “Bar Sto barrels come with fully supported chambers and are broach cut rifled to accept lead bullets. Accuracy of 1.250 or better at 25yrds is obtainable with good ammo.”

I’m not a fan of the lack of 6 o’clock support of the stock barrel especially with such a high pressure cartridge. If nothing else, it is piece of mind with the ability to reload your brass without the stretching and bulging. If you really want the most out of it, consider a Match Target barrel and have it professionally fitted.