Interesting 9mm Q&A- [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Dr. J Frame
07-30-2005, 14:43
I followed the sticky posted at GT's Caliber Corner and came across this information. I'm sure many of you Niners have already read these. Thought it was interesting because every week someone tells me I should switch calibers or carry load.

Q: I have a 9mm handgun and someone told me that the .40 S&W is more effective and it has more knockdown power than the 9mm...

A: Statements of that type are as old as the firearm and have in most cases become legendary myths. The statement is most often posed on the internet as a question and has been asked about the .45 ACP VS (insert caliber) and the .357 Sig/9mm/, 380 etc. etc. etc.

Through testing and forensic examination of real gun shot wounds science has shown us that the truth is that with today’s premium ammunition products there is very little difference between any of the common service pistol calibers. There are slight differences but they are most often seen as trade offs in selection and you need to understand that before you consider spending more money on handgun or ammunition purchases.

Q: I was told that the 147 Grain 9mm load was not used by "real cops" and has a bad reputation on the street?

A: First, that statement is complete 100% BS. The truth is that the 147gr 9mm has been used successfully in more 9mm LE line of Duty Shootings than any other 9mm loading.

Second, bullet weight alone does not determine the wounding capability of a given round and altering weight or velocity without the accompanying engineering analysis will in most cases make the product less effective. There is much more to the issue than weight and velocity. Real valid tests and studies have been done using the Federal 147gr and Winchester 147gr 9mm jhp cartridges and late San Diego Criminologist Gene Wolberg published the only peer reviewed work on the 147gr 9mm to date.

Is +P Ammo Bettter?

A. The only advantage provided by increasing the pressure and velocity of the bullet which results in an increase in muzzle energy is seen within the confines of the temporal cavity. At a difference of (+ or - 100fps) as is the case with the most standard pressure and +P (Plus Pressure) loadings our bullet does not possess sufficiently altered velocity to further stress the tissues it contacts within it's path of penetration.

In the book "Gun Shot Wounds" 2nd edition 1999 CRC press, Dr. Vincent DiMaio cites that "rather than there being a critical velocity above which the severity of wounds increases dramatically, there is instead a critical level of kinetic energy loss above which tissue destruction becomes more severe. He also notes the obvious that differing tissues have differing degrees of elasticity but he cites the median velocity for steel spheres and fmj bullets to increase this damage due temporal cavity stretch at velocities greater than 2635-2950fps. He then notes that in regards to hunting or deforming ammunition that once this critical velocity is reached the extent of destruction is the same.

Handgun ammunition does not posses the required velocity or energy to exert significant levels of kinetic energy loss in tissue to justify the requirement for the slight level of velocity increase that +p ammunition generally provides.

For the entire article click here. (http://www.ammolab.myhomepage.com/page/page/1613332.htm)

isp2605
07-30-2005, 16:27
RE question # 2: The question was not 100% BS. Early 147 gr results were terrible. 15+/- yrs ago the 147 stuff wasn't cutting it. They wouldn't expand and they penetrated like FMJ. Everyone got on that "subsonic" bandwagon and the 147 design was lacking. The ammo makers have made great improvements since then and I wouldn't have an issue carrying modern 147 today.

Merkavaboy
07-31-2005, 11:26
Originally posted by Dr. J Frame
Q: I was told that the 147 Grain 9mm load was not used by "real cops" and has a bad reputation on the street?

A: First, that statement is complete 100% BS. The truth is that the 147gr 9mm has been used successfully in more 9mm LE line of Duty Shootings than any other 9mm loading.

Second, bullet weight alone does not determine the wounding capability of a given round and altering weight or velocity without the accompanying engineering analysis will in most cases make the product less effective. There is much more to the issue than weight and velocity. Real valid tests and studies have been done using the Federal 147gr and Winchester 147gr 9mm jhp cartridges and late San Diego Criminologist Gene Wolberg published the only peer reviewed work on the 147gr 9mm to date.

Quite a few times now I have read about this Wolberg/San Diego study on the 147gr. 9mm, yet I have yet to see ANY article or mention outside of GT about this topic. My guess is that it may not be something that has been accepted by those in the gun industry as being a valid study.

Does anyone have a link or a source for this "published" study of the 147gr. 9mm load, in it's ENTIRETY?

Dandapani
07-31-2005, 13:52
Originally posted by Merkavaboy
Does anyone have a link or a source for this "published" study of the 147gr. 9mm load, in it's ENTIRETY?

I have a copy. Email me and I'll send it to you. Someone sent it to me so I don't think it's generally linkable online.

Merkavaboy
07-31-2005, 20:12
dmobrien2001,

Email sent. Many thanks for your offer of assistance.

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