Increased the 115gr Silver Bear velocity.

[M2 Carbine]

Since there aren't any 115 grain .364 Makarov bullets available for reloaders I thought I'd try some 115gr Silver Bear bullets. I pulled about a dozen bullets, discarded the powder and reused the SB steel case.

The 115gr SB factory load does 1,000 FPS, which is pretty respectable, especially considering the Hornady 95gr JHP factory load only does about 920 FPS.

I worked up the SB case and bullet to 1071 FPS. At that point I was getting visual signs of too much pressure.
Strictly as a guess, I would think the high pressure signs might be worse using brass cases because of the assumption that the steel cases are stronger.

So it appears that the 1,000 FPS that the SB does is about maximum for that 115gr steel JHP.

[RMTactical]

I thought it might have been pushing it. I'd really prefer brass casings though, if someone were to start making a new 9x18 load.

[ericXD9]

Originally posted by M2 Carbine
I worked up the SB case and bullet to 1071 FPS. At that point I was getting visual signs of too much pressure.


Thanks for sharing your test results.. You've got more stones than I do. I'm curious, what were these "visual signs of too much pressure"?

[M2 Carbine]

Originally posted by ericXD9
Thanks for sharing your test results.. You've got more stones than I do. I'm curious, what were these "visual signs of too much pressure"?

Comparing the reloaded fired case with a factory fired case.
Flattened or cratered primers, abnormally swelled brass, scratched cases, chronographed velocity and just too big a bang.;f
But in a gun like the Mak where the feed ramp is cut in to the chamber somewhat, a portion of the case is not enclosed by the chamber and will abnormally swell and even blow out with too high a pressure.
The case swelling in this area is a pretty good indication that the pressure is a bit high but I've seen factory loaded ammo swell pretty good with this type of chamber.
Some chambers leave a lot of the case "hanging out", like this Kel Tec 32 barrel.
The round is seated fully forward.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/KT32ramp.jpg

Since I don't have any way to accurately measure case pressure, the few times I've experimented, like with this 115gr Silver Bear, I set very conservative limits that I won't exceed, even if everything appears to be going well. For instance the velocity limit I was going to stop at was 1,100FPS. I'm positive the Mak would safely handle this (not as a steady diet of course).

I started the load at below the 1,000 FPS factory velocity and worked up to 1,060 FPS average (highest round was 1,071 FPS).
At this point I quit because I started to get signs of high pressure.

IMHO Silver Bear is getting all they reasonably can out of that bullet, case combination at 1,000 FPS.

If Hornady, Speer, Sierra, etc would come out with a 115 gr Mak bullet for reloaders, maybe we can work up a good 1,000 FPS load with a better bullet than the Silver Bear.

[Mak Maven]

Thank you M2 for sharing.
Just bought some BROWN bear 115 hp.
Any thoughts whether BB and SB will react the same?
Same factory?
Same load?

[Catbird]

Nice report.

A couple of questions:
- Did you by any chance weigh the pulled bullets and check for actual weight and consistency?
- Did you use AA#2?

[M2 Carbine]

Mak, The first chance I get I'm going to get some 115gr BB HP and chronograph it. I guess and hope it is doing the 1,000 FPS that the SB does.
I think there's a gun show in Dallas next month. I'll pick up a few boxes.


Catbird I'm glad you reminded me. The pulled SB 115 gr bullets all weighed about 116gr to 117gr. A single grain weight spread isn't match consistancy but I thought it was pretty good for low price ammo.

I used AA#2. It was a compressed load. I didn't try AA#5. Being slower burning it probably would be a better choice for the higher velocity if the case would hold enough powder.

[North Bender]

I chronographed 20 rounds of Brown Bear 115-grain. In feet per second:

Minimum: 971
Maximum: 1023
StdDev: 15

I pulled one bullet which weighed 116.8 grains.

[M2 Carbine]

Originally posted by North Bender
I chronographed 20 rounds of Brown Bear 115-grain. In feet per second:

Minimum: 971
Maximum: 1023
StdDev: 15

I pulled one bullet which weighed 116.8 grains.

That sure sounds like Silver Bear with just a different case finish.
The SB Min and Max were 988 and 1032 with 10.8 SD, 16 rounds measured.

I wonder why the SB and BB brands.
Different company or one company making the two brands?

[NoGo]

Coffee fueled questions for M2-

Are steel cases actually more tolerant of overloads than brass? It seems to me that they would be, but I don't know.

If brass was, would trimmed 9x19 cases be more tolerant of overload/ less likely to "Guppy belly" than 9x18? I've never sawed both apart and compared case wall thicknesses.

Any problems chronographing shiny or light colored bullets?

[M2 Carbine]

Originally posted by NoGo
Coffee fueled questions for M2-

Are steel cases actually more tolerant of overloads than brass? It seems to me that they would be, but I don't know.

If brass was, would trimmed 9x19 cases be more tolerant of overload/ less likely to "Guppy belly" than 9x18? I've never sawed both apart and compared case wall thicknesses.

Any problems chronographing shiny or light colored bullets?

My GUESS is the steel cases are all around stronger. That's one reason when I started seeing signs of overpressure in the steel cases at 1,070 fps I quit. Figuring if the steel cases can't take the pressure the brass cases wouldn't either.

There's always been a great difference in 9x19 brass because everyone and their brother makes it. I would assume that if someone put a little effort in searching for the heaviest walled 9x19 brass they could find it.
I'm not a metallurgist but I know there would also be more to the strength of the brass than just it's thickness.

I seldom reload ammo even up to the max recommendation so when I do something like trying to increase the velocity of the Silver Bear 115gr I set some pretty conservative limits since there are a lot of variables.

The Pact chronograph I have hardly ever misses any bullet. About the only time it misses is when I mix up the Start and Stop wires.;Q