Acura TL v. Audi A4 v. Infiniti G35 v. Caddy CTS-V [Archive] - Glock Talk

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c5367
08-05-2005, 06:23
I'm in the market for a new car and I think I've narrowed it down to these 4 models, all with a do-it-yourself gearbox and navigation. There are a few others, but a Wrangler doesn't quite fit in with these sedans. So far, I've test driven the Acura and the Audi.
First impressions: The Acura offers a ton of amenities for the money, and I can get a pretty good deal on it. I particularly like the bluetooth handsfree system, and I'm almost to the point of considering it a must-have option. The interior is very nice. Everything is laid out almost perfectly and the fit and finish looks nearly perfect. The guages/lighting scheme are pleasant to look at as well. The car had plenty of power throuhgout the rev range, and after the VTEC switches at about 4700, its surprisingly quick for what is essentially an Accord. On the downsides, The clutch seems grabby and the shift throws were a bit long. I noticed a tiny bit of torque steer ad the turning radius is much wider than my little VW GTI. The dealer I went to didn't have a 6spd w/ nav in stock, so I didn't get a chance to push all the buttons.

The Audi: I liked the all-red guage lighting, and the feature set is more inline with what I'd like than the Acura. The 06's, I'm told, will have a bluetooth handsfree system that will sync with your phone's phonebook, which the Acura won't do. Also, the stereo system has 2 SD card slots so you can play Mp3's. My inner geek really likes these sorts of things:) The seats were comfortable. The gearbox has shorter throws than the Acura, but I think it may be ever-so-slightly less precise feeling. I didn't test back to back, so I'm not sure. I liked the quattro system, and here in Chicago-land, I'm certain it would be nice to have in the winter.
The interior feels a little cheaper than the Acura, or maybe "lower tech." As far as power goes, it's nowhere close to the Acura, and actually seems slower than my GTI, despite having a more powerful version of the same engine. This is probably because its putting to power to all 4 wheels and weighs a bit more. Then again, this may not be a bad thing, as I don't need anymore speeding tickets;) The nav system is a bit clumsy, but it may just require a learning curve. It could be more user friendly though. Generally, I liked the car, but I'm not sure its worth the extra cost over the TL or G35.
I haven't driven the Infiniti or the Caddy yet. Neither has the bluetooth handsfree, which is kind of a negative, especially now that driving while talking on a cell is now a ticketable offense in the city. Both of these cars are RWD, which will be great for more spirited driving, but not-so-good in the winter. Especially the Caddy with its LS6. But then again, it's an LS6!!:D (cue Tim Taylor-esque grunting) On paper its the best performing of the group, but also the most expensive even with the extended GM-employee discount. It's also the thirstiest most expensive to insure.

And now, my questions to y'all out there in GT-land: Does anyone have any experience with any of these rides? If so, are there any nagging little details details that bother you? Little details that you love? What about reliability? User experience in general?
And, are there any comparable alternatives I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for any input, and Stay Safe!

fnfalman
08-05-2005, 08:12
My adopted dad has a TL, alas it's a slushbox version. I am not a doodads type so all of the electronic gimmicktries mean nothing to me. The Acura is a front driver and that takes a lot of fun out of what could be a great sport sedan. Nonetheless it is a lot of car for the money. The quality and fit & finish are top notch. The Audi leaves me cold. The Infinity is a great car by any standard, but somehow it also leaves me cold. It should be more fun to drive than the TL though. The Caddy, well, I would take it over the rest just because it has lots of oomph on a decently competent chassis. It ain't no BMW chassis, but it's still a good chassis thanks to Opel of Germany.

c5367
08-05-2005, 08:29
Originally posted by fnfalman
My adopted dad has a TL, alas it's a slushbox version. I am not a doodads type so all of the electronic gimmicktries mean nothing to me. The Acura is a front driver and that takes a lot of fun out of what could be a great sport sedan. Nonetheless it is a lot of car for the money. The quality and fit & finish are top notch. The Audi leaves me cold. The Infinity is a great car by any standard, but somehow it also leaves me cold. It should be more fun to drive than the TL though. The Caddy, well, I would take it over the rest just because it has lots of oomph on a decently competent chassis. It ain't no BMW chassis, but it's still a good chassis thanks to Opel of Germany.

hmmmm...l.
Maybe I should consider an M3..... Chicks dig Beemers :) ;z

My objective is really all weather practicality. I'm hoping to get a 999 for my speed fixes;)

grecco
08-05-2005, 08:40
the acura is most likely the best deal for the money.
the g35 has a really good engine
the audi is awesome,but gets really expensive to fix
the caddy has a big strong v-8.

there are a few things i consider when i purchase a car.
1.reliablity
2.value
3.resale value
4.fun to drive

check out carreviews.com, sort like glocktalk for cars.....

personally i would go w/the acura,
i have been driving honda products for ever and they are hard to beat,
good luck, lets us know how you do.

epsylum
08-05-2005, 09:36
Personally:

Acura: the FWD ruins it for me. Good car, but WHY FWD, honda?

Audi: definately on my list. I love VWs and Audis. Oh I would only get a manual quattro. VW is known for crappy automatics and the quattro fixes the FWD problem.

Infiniti: I would get the G35 sport coupe. Basically a restyled (and better looking IMO) 350Z.

Cadillac: I am not a GM man and would never own one (Vette Z06 aside).

c5367
08-05-2005, 09:56
Originally posted by epsylum
Personally:

Acura: the FWD ruins it for me. Good car, but WHY FWD, honda?

Audi: definately on my list. I love VWs and Audis. Oh I would only get a manual quattro. VW is known for crappy automatics and the quattro fixes the FWD problem.

Infiniti: I would get the G35 sport coupe. Basically a restyled (and better looking IMO) 350Z.

Cadillac: I am not a GM man and would never own one (Vette Z06 aside).

I definitely agree on the FWD with the Acura. If it was RWD or even AWD, I don't think it would even be a question as to which to get.

Right on with G35 coupe v. the 350Z. The only problem is that there isn't a manual w/ nav to be found within 100 miles of here according to infiniti's website. There are a few sedan w/ both, and the little angel on my shoulder says "more practical." But given a choice between a 6-spd coupe or sedan, the coupe wins hands down.

Grecco,
Thanks for the heads up on carreviews.com. I'll check it out

milsurp
08-05-2005, 13:42
I'll be a friend and help you out here. Buy your top two. Then you and I can drive them and compare notes. Then, give me the one you like least. I wouldn't want you to have buyers remorse. Hell, use me as a tax write off and claim it's charity.

rcm
08-05-2005, 13:50
I own a 2002 A4. I really like this car, I had always owned American cars till I married and wife said try the Audi. I drive 70 miles a day back and forth to work so the ride has to be good. It is...I also live in NH so, I don't think I could go w/o quattro now. I have had only one small problem with the car and it was fixed under warranty. It has over 50,000 miles on it now and I drive the snot out of it. I reccomemnd this car.

Other cars we have in the stable, wife drives mini cooper convertible with JCS package and her Colorado 4 door. My other car is a thirty year old 911. I'm not braggin' here just trying to let you know where my thoughts come from.

Rick

method
08-05-2005, 19:40
The CTS-V is in a performance (and price) realm a notch or two above the others. It's the only one I've driven out of the bunch, and I like it very much....the others may be peppy, but the V is an all out beast, and can be made faster with fairly simple modifications. Keep in mind it's upwards of $15K dearer than a TL, and they eat back tires in less than 10,000 miles.

kawalerzysta
08-06-2005, 06:08
I like G35, because it is RWD (AWD is optional). Caddy would be my second choice. I would stay away from Acura for being FWD and from Audi for having lousy quality.

epsylum
08-06-2005, 10:56
Originally posted by c5367
I definitely agree on the FWD with the Acura. If it was RWD or even AWD, I don't think it would even be a question as to which to get.

Right on with G35 coupe v. the 350Z. The only problem is that there isn't a manual w/ nav to be found within 100 miles of here according to infiniti's website. There are a few sedan w/ both, and the little angel on my shoulder says "more practical." But given a choice between a 6-spd coupe or sedan, the coupe wins hands down.

Grecco,
Thanks for the heads up on carreviews.com. I'll check it out

If your serious about buying a coupe, a good dealer can find one just like you want and do a dealership transfer. My dad got his Maruader that way. They just loaded it up on a truck and drove it here from another state.

Goes to show, if you have money, people will move mountains to get it from you. ;f

Rob1035
08-06-2005, 11:28
I personally have great faith in Honda/Acura reliability. The sacrifice is of course "status" (which is meaningless to me) and "sportiness", which means a lot....

For a daily driver, I'd like comfort that I dont have to bother with. I just dont trust the Audi like I would the Japanese offerings, especially out of warranty...

That being said, maybe you should try an A6, as that is more inline with the other choices, and the interior and power might be more what you want.

You might also want to check out the new Subaru Legacy GT with the 2.5 Turbo motor. Fairly quick, AWD, with a very nice interior, similar pricing to the Acura, just a thought.

chris93473
08-06-2005, 18:01
i would either choose the TL or G35. it's kinda wierd how the G35 has 298hp but the 350Z is less than that. you will get more for the TL in terms of features but the G35 has much more sporting intentions to it.

bac1023
08-06-2005, 20:00
I'd go with the TL. I love Honda/Acura reliability.

epsylum
08-06-2005, 22:40
Originally posted by bac1023
I love Honda/Acura reliability.
+1
But I would add to that anything from Toyota.

Honda engineers everything to work in perfect harmony. That's how they get thier reliability. Toyota overbuilds everything and then pull it back to get reliability (notice toyota doesn't win any HP wars, they dial back the power to get the reliability).

edited to add:

But, man those G35 coupes look FUN!! I had an '86 300ZX non-turbo. I loved driving that car, even if it was falling apart around my ears (stupid mid 80's gadgetry, there is no reason to have my damn car TALK to me).

The pure driving essence of that car, sold me on Z cars. If I had the money today I would own one of the 350's.

BTW ask rockinAR if you should buy a G35.

;f

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=397260

Z28ricer
08-07-2005, 01:06
I'd definetly take the V out of the choices, the G35 would be a 2nd, and wouldnt even consider the other two, provided price wasnt a deciding factor that is. The V has great styling and quality, and who can argue with an all aluminum 400 HP Gen3 backed by a T56 ? :cool:

epsylum
08-07-2005, 02:08
Originally posted by Z28ricer
I'd definetly take the V out of the choices, the G35 would be a 2nd, and wouldnt even consider the other two, provided price wasnt a deciding factor that is. The V has great styling and quality, and who can argue with an all aluminum 400 HP Gen3 backed by a T56 ? :cool:

With a name like that you wouldn't be biased would you? ;f

chris93473
08-07-2005, 03:45
by the way in that price range i would also say the Lexus IS350 is a good choice too. It has more hp then the G35 but the only damn thing is that the 350 only comes with a six speed auto. the 250 can be combined with a six speed standard.

c5367
08-07-2005, 08:12
Originally posted by chris93473
by the way in that price range i would also say the Lexus IS350 is a good choice too. It has more hp then the G35 but the only damn thing is that the 350 only comes with a six speed auto. the 250 can be combined with a six speed standard.

When are the new IS's supposed to hit the showrooms?
I've heard rumors that the IS250 will have a AWD option. Plus it will have the bluetooth and a decent audio system. Throw in a 6-spd and Lexus reliability, and I think we may have a winner.

c5367
08-07-2005, 08:13
Originally posted by epsylum
+1
...
But, man those G35 coupes look FUN!! I had an '86 300ZX non-turbo. I loved driving that car, even if it was falling apart around my ears (stupid mid 80's gadgetry, there is no reason to have my damn car TALK to me).

The pure driving essence of that car, sold me on Z cars. If I had the money today I would own one of the 350's.

BTW ask rockinAR if you should buy a G35.

;f

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=397260

A twin-turbo G35 coupe??????? ;3 ;3 ;3

So much for practicality;f

chris93473
08-07-2005, 10:34
Originally posted by c5367
When are the new IS's supposed to hit the showrooms?
I've heard rumors that the IS250 will have a AWD option. Plus it will have the bluetooth and a decent audio system. Throw in a 6-spd and Lexus reliability, and I think we may have a winner.

i heard it was supposed to come out October 2006. But keep in mind the six speed man. is only for the 250. by the way if you look at the rear side of the car, it almost looks like a corolla's rear side.

http://www.lexus.com/2006is_preview/

c5367
08-07-2005, 10:48
Thanks for the link. Not only does the 6-spd only come on the 250, but only the RWD version. The AWD gets a 6-spd auto w/paddle shifters. Depending on how well they work, it might not be too horrible. The F1 racers seems to like the clutchless paddle shifters, so maybe I ought to give them a shot. Looks like everything just got more complicated ;f

epsylum
08-07-2005, 15:06
Originally posted by c5367
Thanks for the link. Not only does the 6-spd only come on the 250, but only the RWD version. The AWD gets a 6-spd auto w/paddle shifters. Depending on how well they work, it might not be too horrible. The F1 racers seems to like the clutchless paddle shifters, so maybe I ought to give them a shot. Looks like everything just got more complicated ;f

Well it may be an auto, but Toyotas autos are very dependable. My brother had a 91 Camry V-6 auto. He sold it with over 250,000 miles on it. The only problem was a rust hole in the exhaust. The guy he sold it to has done nothing except change oil and add gas and still drives it daily. Last time I heard it was approaching 300k.

Those new Lexus GSs are sweet looking. Personally I was dissapointed to find the AWD was not for the V-8. That would have given Audi a run for thier AWD money.

edited to add:

oh what's this new IS? I miss read that. Now clicking on the link. Oh Oh get that! Man that thing looks sweet.

tony4311
08-07-2005, 21:29
Just so you're aware they've added a couple of things for the '06 TL. One of which deals with the torque steer.


Since its groundbreaking redesign in 2004, the Acura TL has solidified its place as both the top selling Acura and best-selling luxury sedan in the country. The TL comes equipped with a 3.2-liter, VTEC V-6 engine, a drive-by-wire throttle system, and an available close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission with limited slip differential. For 2006, a Tire Pressure Monitoring System is added to the TL’s already long list of standard safety features as are two new exterior colors.

http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=384913



TL
Since its groundbreaking redesign in 2004, the Acura TL has solidified its place as both the top selling Acura and best-selling luxury sedan in the country. The TL comes equipped with a 3.2-liter, VTEC V-6 engine, a drive-by-wire throttle system, and an available close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission with limited slip differential. For 2006, a Tire Pressure Monitoring System is added to the TL’s already long list of standard safety features as are two new exterior colors

Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)
Revised engine management system and steering angle sensor logic help reduce torque steer
New Colors:
Royal Blue Pearl replaces Abyss Blue Pearl
Alabaster Silver Metallic replaces Satin Silver Metallic
Deep Green Pearl discontinued
New horsepower/torque ratings: 258 horsepower SAE net (Rev 8/04) at 6200 rpm, 233 lbs-ft. of torque SAE net (Rev 8/04) at 5000 rpm

Rob1035
08-07-2005, 21:46
LSD, sweet. If only Honda would include it on all their manual FWD cars. Or at least the VTEC ones...

fnfalman
08-08-2005, 09:42
<------ Chicks dig Aprilias and not BMWs. ;f



Of course there's the Acura RL with sometimes AWD depending on the road surface and the level of driving enthusiam. Its price is probably pretty close to the CTS-V. More oomphs and luxury than the TL.

And then the 2006 E90 BMW 330i rears its head.;G

I wouldn't buy an M3. The next generation M3 is probably just around the corner. Rumored of V-8 power...;P

c5367
08-08-2005, 10:19
Originally posted by fnfalman
<------ Chicks dig Aprilias and not BMWs. ;f



Of course there's the Acura RL with sometimes AWD depending on the road surface and the level of driving enthusiam. Its price is probably pretty close to the CTS-V. More oomphs and luxury than the TL.

And then the 2006 E90 BMW 330i rears its head.;G

I wouldn't buy an M3. The next generation M3 is probably just around the corner. Rumored of V-8 power...;P

I've got an appointment Thursday to test the Bimmer:) 330 and M3. If new M's get the same treatment as the 3-series, I think I'd be glad to take the current model. The new 3-series styling doesn't do a whole lot for me.

I like the RL. The amount of technology in that thing is amazing, but it only comes with the slushbox. Also, truth be told, I'd like to keep it under 40k. I've more or less ruled out the Caddy based on initial, insure and fuel costs. I've managed to rationalize the M3 by taking into account that BMW takes care of everything up to 50k miles, from oil changes to brake pads, and because it amazingly costs less to insure than my VW GTI. And it's an M3;f The $50-52k price tag will likely rule it out as well.

Z28ricer
08-08-2005, 10:38
Originally posted by epsylum
With a name like that you wouldn't be biased would you? ;f

Or just informed enough, even you said you'd take a Z06, a CTS-V is a Z06 with a caddy badge, different body panels, and some extra seating room :cool:

fnfalman
08-08-2005, 11:30
A CTS-V is not a Z06 with the Caddy wreath. You're thinking of the XLR which shared the same chassis as the C6. The CTS is based on the Opel.

method
08-08-2005, 17:51
I think what he meant is that the CTS-V utilizes the same motor and transmission as the Z06. The XLR does borrow the chassis structure of the C6, but the motor and transmission are entirely different. The CTS is not based on an Opel, it does share its Sigma chassis with some Opels, but the chassis is a clean sheet design. The Catera was nothing but a rebadged Opel.

epsylum
08-08-2005, 20:11
Originally posted by method
I think what he meant is that the CTS-V utilizes the same motor and transmission as the Z06. The XLR does borrow the chassis structure of the C6, but the motor and transmission are entirely different. The CTS is not based on an Opel, it does share its Sigma chassis with some Opels, but the chassis is a clean sheet design. The Catera was nothing but a rebadged Opel.

I don't care who makes it, I am a blue oval guy (if it HAS to be american). The Z06 just has it all, everything else GM makes that is even remotely close to it, is just a wannabe.

BTW I meant I want the 06 (500hp) Z06. But I want a Ford GT about 100 times more.

Anywho, I don't have enough cash for even an Aveo (however it's spelled), so I am just dreaming.

c5367
08-08-2005, 20:17
Originally posted by epsylum
I don't care who makes it, I am a blue oval guy (if it HAS to be american). The Z06 just has it all, everything else GM makes that is even remotely close to it, is just a wannabe.

BTW I meant I want the 06 (500hp) Z06. But I want a Ford GT about 100 times more.

Anywho, I don't have enough cash for even an Aveo (however it's spelled), so I am just dreaming.

a Ford GT over a Z06?!?! Ford Sucks! GM rules! and 9mm is for pansies! ;f ;N

j/k

That new Z is looking really good. Plus I hear it can be had with all the luxury goodies as well; leather heated seats, nav, HUD, etc. At half the price of the GT, for me a choice between the two would be a no brainer. Now, if somebody else was buying........

Z28ricer
08-09-2005, 01:53
Ford sucks anyway :) and yes I did mean it shares the same engine and Tremec 6 spd manual as the current Z06, both also have IRS, hugemongous brakes and the same pricetag. Ford GT is ok I guess, but if I was going for "supercar" i'd simply get one of these (yes they are chevy powered, and stomp all over the GT :D

http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/gtr/pics/gtr26.jpg

Originally posted by epsylum
I don't care who makes it, I am a blue oval guy (if it HAS to be american). The Z06 just has it all, everything else GM makes that is even remotely close to it, is just a wannabe.

BTW I meant I want the 06 (500hp) Z06. But I want a Ford GT about 100 times more.

Anywho, I don't have enough cash for even an Aveo (however it's spelled), so I am just dreaming.

epsylum
08-09-2005, 07:47
Originally posted by Z28ricer
Ford sucks anyway :)

A little uncalled for if you ask me. I never said GM sucks (even though I would rather own a beat up old 88 camry with over 200k miles than about 95% of GM's new vehicles, the camry will be more reliable).

The Ultima is sweet, but it is a kit car. I can find lots of other kit cars that are hella fast too. Some use ford engines.

I actually saw an ultima driving down the street once. I was behind it. It pulled out of Indianapolis Raceway Park when I left my house. They had some big SCCA thing that going on and Car and Driver was there.

c5367
08-10-2005, 15:44
Update:
Just got done test driving the G35. My initial thoughts: ehhh. It honestly doesn't feel like it has just short of 300hp. Now, it doesn't feel slow either, but it didn't come across as the über-sports sedan some make it out to be. Then again, I really didn't lay into it. The shifter was very short throw, but very notchy and high effort. Definitely not as slick as the Acura or Audi. I did like the RWD, and even through the basic 4-turn test drive it felt like it could attack the twisties better than the other two.
The interior was tasteful and the fit and finish was on par with the Audi, but not the Acura. I did like the way the nav system hides when not in use, but the controls were only slightly better than the A4, which isn't saying much. Further, the intelligent key isn't available on the 6-spd, and no bluetooth. As far as nifty tech features go, the Infinity is behind the competition.
All in all, I'd have to say the G35 is nearly out of the running, unless I could get a very good deal. The salesman mentioned, without my even asking, that he could likely let it go for a touch above invoice. They had quite a few on the lot and the '06's will be here mid-Sep, so my impression is that they're pretty eager to unload them.

Tomorrow, I test the Bimmer 3-series and M3.

Ned Ludd
08-10-2005, 15:59
$.02 on 6 speed with paddle shifter:

I have one in my BMW. Takes getting used to and the BMW version works "backwards" from the way you expect. That said, I'd never go back to a manual. The machine shifts quicker than I can even with heel-toe coordination. Plus, it is so much nicer is in long freeway slogs I must endure.

-NL

epsylum
08-10-2005, 22:01
Originally posted by c5367
Tomorrow, I test the Bimmer 3-series and M3.

My uncle streched financially to get his M3 (got it new in 95). He still loves that car. I rode in it and thought it was really freakin sweet.

But he is a life long BMW fan (has had and still has numerous Beemer bikes and used to have a 2002 until he sold it to my other uncle).

Rob1035
08-11-2005, 09:19
I'd take an E36 M3 (especially a 95..) over an E46 any day of the week and twice on Sundays. IMHO, the E46 M3 has been skewed too much towards luxury and not enough sport. I'm not saying its slow or handles poorly, quite the opposite, but to me it just doesn't 'feel' as sporty. I also dont like SMG, its way too much like Gran Tourismo for me to get into...


That being said, the E46 M3 is probably the most sporting of the options in this thread.

epsylum
08-11-2005, 09:38
Originally posted by Rob1035
I'd take an E36 M3 (especially a 95..) over an E46 any day of the week and twice on Sundays. IMHO, the E46 M3 has been skewed too much towards luxury and not enough sport. I'm not saying its slow or handles poorly, quite the opposite, but to me it just doesn't 'feel' as sporty. I also dont like SMG, its way too much like Gran Tourismo for me to get into...


That being said, the E46 M3 is probably the most sporting of the options in this thread.

yeah it is pretty sporty on the inside. I does have a few cool things, but no luxury type things like heated seats and the like.

It has very stiff suspension and seems to handle VERY well. I just wish he would get a supercharger kit. That is the only drawback for me with that car (the E36 m3's)is they need a tad more power.

Hauptmann6
08-11-2005, 20:18
The G35 you test drove is fast. You just didn't push it enough. Take it out again and see if you can take it for an afternoon. And jump on it.

Hopefully over labor day I will get to drive a freind of mine's and I will give you more feedback(ridden with him a few times). I can say it is one of the VERY few cars that has scared me as a passenger.

c5367
08-11-2005, 20:37
Just got back from the BMW dealership where I tested the 05 330 Coupe and an '02 M3.
First was the 330: The interior was very utilitarian, almost spartan, but it didn't really lack anything. The upholstery was cloth, as this model had the performance package. This actually turns out to be a good thing, as I found out in the test drive.
The dealer was right next door to the dealers I had tested the Audi and Acura at, so I was expecting the same test drive route. I was surprised when the dealer directed me to some twisty little back road areas and fully encouraged me to attack the turns. I suspect this is because yes, the Bimmer is every bit the drivers' car it is made out to be. The car is really an apex strafer, and the dealer obviously was intent on putting its best foot forward. I've never heard, nor could I imagine hearing a dealer say "more gas, gas, gas!" while going through a tight curve until today. The cloth held me in the seat much better than leather. All in all, this car was the best feeling of what I had tested thusfar.
That didn't last long because the M3 came next. To make what would end up as a long post full of every superlative adjective I can imagine, it would be more to the point to say this car is EVERYTHING the car rags say it is, and then some. Now, I'm partial the low burble of pushrod V-8s, but the snarl this machine had was music. Pure music. I do think the very nice audio system would rarely get used. I was able to take it on the same route as the 330, where it did everything the 330 did, but better and faster. Driving that thing destroyed any notion of wanting a "practical" car. MPG numbers meant nothing. The rear shelf....um, I mean back seat which would have been a turn-off in the the others was suddenly completely irrelevant. Getting back into to my GTI was a sad disappointment. The brakes which I always thought were way more than adequate felt soft and weak. And the acceleration? Good grief it is severely wanting.
The only sore spot.....I'd be lucky to walk with it for the not-so-paltry sum of 51,000 plus tax, and that is getting a break from the 54K sticker.

Rob1035
08-11-2005, 22:50
I'm glad you had fun, dealer days are always great.

For the price of a new M3, keep in mind you can probably get a CPO e39 M5, just food for thought

fnfalman
08-12-2005, 08:42
The "cloth" isn't cloth but it's called Alcantara - a synthetic suade. Some of the racing motorcycles are using them for seats now, but for a different reason. With regular clothings on, the suade-like material holds you in place. But when you wear leathers, it's slippin' & slidin', baby! And that's what you need in order to hang off the bike on one side and slide to the other side for the next corner.

PS I personally wouldn't buy the 05 330i, Performance Package and whatnot. I'd spend the extra $600 and get the much more potent 06 330i.

c5367
08-12-2005, 09:10
They say the 06's are a big improvement performance wise, but the new styling is a huge turnoff. I suppose the upside would be that the exact configuration I'd like would be more readily available. At the moment, the particular 330 I drove isn't on the short list, as it doesn't have the tech goodies I'd like. While it was a great handling car, the lack of features at its price point was a deal breaker. They do have a 05 330 convertible with everything but nav that may fit the bill, but it ends up only 2-3k short of the M3. It does have the M-wannabe package with the 235hp engine, upgraded suspension and M-looking aero pieces. The benefit would be the addition of the drop-top,(chicks dig drop-tops!) much better MPG, slightly cheaper insurance, and much less potential for losing my license :)

SJRTX
08-14-2005, 19:20
If were my choice, I would go with the CTS V-same motor and tranny as the Z06(LS6& T56). A guy I know has his brand new cts v making 400 at the rear wheels right now. Exhaust, small cam, intake and throttle body. still very much driveable, and very much a sleeper car that still gets good gas milage.

Rob1035
08-14-2005, 21:28
define "good"....

method
08-14-2005, 22:42
Depends on how hard you drive it of course, but the LS6 delivers upwards of 28 mpg in the 'Vette on the highway. Hard city driving will net 15 or less. The heavier and less aerodynamic CTS-V would probably be good for 25 mpg on an extended highway cruise. The LS1/2/6's really are top notch motors, being compact, light, powerful, efficient, and reliable. The LS7 will go down in history as one of the finest factory motors ever.

c5367
08-14-2005, 22:46
Comparing apples to apples:

EPA MPG
Caddy CTS-V 15/23
BMW M3 (manual) 16/24

All that extra power comes at the expense of a whopping 1 MPG. :)

But the real cost difference: 6 months insurance
CTS-V @$1900
M3 @$875

I couldn't even begin to guess why.

fnfalman
08-15-2005, 09:51
Originally posted by c5367
Comparing apples to apples:

EPA MPG
Caddy CTS-V 15/23
BMW M3 (manual) 16/24

All that extra power comes at the expense of a whopping 1 MPG. :)

But the real cost difference: 6 months insurance
CTS-V @$1900
M3 @$875

I couldn't even begin to guess why.

First of all, horsepower doesn't tell the whole story. The M3 outaccelerates and outcorners the CTS-V. Don't get me wrong, the CTS-V is a heck of a car, but there's a reason why the M3 gets top notch review. There isn't a sport sedan that can touch it. Well, the M5, but then that's because the M5 is a BMW.

As far as why the cost difference in insurance, I don't really know. Maybe because the M3 has been around longer and has better reliability records? I'm just guessing as to why the insurance is cheaper.

Ned Ludd
08-15-2005, 10:42
My partner has a CTS-V. I have a 5 series BMW. Even though on paper the Caddy should be faster, on real streets the Beemer smokes it. (Well, that's not fair. It's a bit faster)

The main reason, I think, is in the mysterious area of "feel". The Germans just seem to be better at giving you a car that lets you know exactly what is going on. Also, given that you really can't drive fast that often anyway, I'm not sure performace should be the main issue.

-NL

method
08-15-2005, 13:37
A quick glance in the back of Motor Trend shows an '05 M3 Competition trapping about 105 mph in the quarter mile, and an '05 CTS-V trapping about 110 mph. They're basically identical in handling measurements (slalom and figure-eight), and the Cadillac stops four feet shorter from 60 mph. The M3 is unquestionably the better sports sedan of the two, but being 67 hp and 140 ft/lbs of torque behind the V, it does not out accelerate it.

c5367
08-15-2005, 13:48
Road and track shows nearly identical numbers for 0-60, skidpad, and slalom. They show the M3 outbraking the CTS-V by 3 and 5 ft. from 60 and 80 mph respectively. 1/4 mile times are the same, but the CTS does indeed have a significantly higher trap speed. That extra power would undoubtedly show itself at the top end. I think the CTS-V wheel hop problem is what held it back in comparison to the M3. The CTS will undoubtedly hang with the M3 off the line, and I think it would take it past 1/4 mile. There is no replacement for displacement. And you get 2 more doors and back seat that can be used for adults for about 4k less. Not too shabby for the new kid, ehh?

The floor mounted parking brake and skip-shift crap really spoil it though. I don't even see why they bothered with the latter. The CTS-V still gets hit with the gas guzzler tax, so it's pretty damn pointless.

SJRTX
08-15-2005, 18:06
Originally posted by Rob1035
define "good"....

Well, I can tell you that I have an LS1 Camaro, with about the biggest cam you can fit in an ls1(.608/.612 238/242 @.050 115lsa) with just exhaust, and intake manifold/throttlebody, my car made 430rwhp 382rwtq SAE corrected through the 6spd, and I can still get 26+mpg on the hwy in 6th gear.

Z28ricer
08-15-2005, 23:49
Originally posted by c5367
Road and track shows nearly identical numbers for 0-60, skidpad, and slalom. They show the M3 outbraking the CTS-V by 3 and 5 ft. from 60 and 80 mph respectively. 1/4 mile times are the same, but the CTS does indeed have a significantly higher trap speed. That extra power would undoubtedly show itself at the top end. I think the CTS-V wheel hop problem is what held it back in comparison to the M3. The CTS will undoubtedly hang with the M3 off the line, and I think it would take it past 1/4 mile. There is no replacement for displacement. And you get 2 more doors and back seat that can be used for adults for about 4k less. Not too shabby for the new kid, ehh?

The floor mounted parking brake and skip-shift crap really spoil it though. I don't even see why they bothered with the latter. The CTS-V still gets hit with the gas guzzler tax, so it's pretty damn pointless.

A resistor, or high dollar resistor depending on which you prefer, and the skip shift is gone either way.

The CTS makes the higher trap, therefore is faster, those claiming that their holy grail bmw is faster and smokes the ctsv are getting lucky enough to go up against morons who cant drive.

epsylum
08-16-2005, 12:43
Yes, in a drag race, my money is on the cadillac. On a road course however, the M3 will take it. The fact is you are comparing 2 different classes of car. One a sports sedan, the other a sport coupe. I am not bringing money into this, since BMWs are and always will be more expensive than a somewhat comparible US made car. That's not the point. You don't buy a BMW if you are worried about money. Just like people shouldn't whine about the price difference between a SIG P220 and a Ruger P90. Both get the job done, just one does it better and costs more.

Now the BMW that is actually in the same class as the CTS V, is the M5. That will KILL a CTS-V in any comparison. But cost about twice as much.

Rob1035
08-16-2005, 12:53
Originally posted by epsylum

Now the BMW that is actually in the same class as the CTS V, is the M5. That will KILL a CTS-V in any comparison. But cost about twice as much.

I'm glad you brought that up, as its much closer to a apples to apples comparison. I personally would take the CTS-V and a dp on a house;f

fnfalman
08-16-2005, 16:07
The M3 may have only two doors but it's still a sedan. And yes, the M5 was more of the same class with the CTS-V and the price difference is only about $15,000. The new M5, of course, is a class on its own with no rivals. One of those supercharged AMGs may match its speed and acceleration but not anywhere else.

method
08-16-2005, 19:09
The CTS-V should get upgraded to the LS7 V8 in the next couple of years, which will match the BMW V10's horsepower, and stomp it in torque. Even the LS6 currently in place produces more torque than the Bimmer V10. Thank God BMW came to their senses to offer a true manual transmission in the M5/M6 for the U.S.

fnfalman
08-17-2005, 10:03
I would prefer to have a manual rower, but a 7-speed SMG specifically developed for the M5/M6 wouldn't be a bad deal either. Remember that the V10 only has 5-liters worth of displacement to put out that much horsepower and torque;) And that's why it's a BMW.

method
08-17-2005, 13:59
Other automakers know how to squeeze lots of horsepower out of small displacement engines, not only BMW. Fact is, however, most of these high strung engines are lacking in torque. The 305 cu in BMW V10 makes less torque than the 346 cu in LS6 V8, and a LOT less than the 427 cu in LS7. No replacement for displacement (except forced induction).

fnfalman
08-17-2005, 14:32
I'd hardly call 383-lbft of torque "little". How much torque does a 5-liter American V-8 put out?

method
08-17-2005, 20:02
Well, apples to oranges and all: Cadillac's 4.6 V8 makes about 310 ft-lbs these days....Ford SVT's '03/'04 supercharged 4.6 makes an underrated 390 ft-lbs...but no American 5.0 V8's, let V10's, currently in use. 383 ft-lbs isn't a little, but in light of an engine that's 5 years old in design that has a two cylinder handicap and a mere 41 cubic inches more displacement making more (all with 'ancient' pushrod architecture), it's not impressive.

method
08-17-2005, 20:08
Oh yea...C5367, decide on a car yet?;f

epsylum
08-17-2005, 22:35
Originally posted by method
Well, apples to oranges and all: Cadillac's 4.6 V8 makes about 310 ft-lbs these days....Ford SVT's '03/'04 supercharged 4.6 makes an underrated 390 ft-lbs...but no American 5.0 V8's, let V10's, currently in use. 383 ft-lbs isn't a little, but in light of an engine that's 5 years old in design that has a two cylinder handicap and a mere 41 cubic inches more displacement making more (all with 'ancient' pushrod architecture), it's not impressive.

There is more to it than just numbers. The BMW V-10 is a revver. It wasn't designed to be a high torque stump puller. The V-10 they devolped is a supposed to be a nod to thier F-1 devolpment (high revving V-10).

The M5 as a whole is very impressive to me. It is, without a doubt, a hell of a sports sedan.

I like american muscle cars (old and new), and I like high dollar european cars. They are not directly comparable IMO. The were 2 completely different goals in mind. I can tell you after riding in my uncle's M3, there isn't an american car like it. That is why he bought it and paid more for it. Sure a 03 cobra could spank it and probabaly wither beat it or give it a hell of a run for it's money on a track, but it still doesn't "feel" like a BMW.

A Timex tells time just as well as a Rolex, so why the price difference?

c5367
08-18-2005, 05:43
Originally posted by method
Oh yea...C5367, decide on a car yet?;f

:)
Not yet. I still have about 2 weeks before I can buy. The Audi is the practical choice. It's the cheapest to insure, gets the best mileage, AWD for our lovely Chicago winters, and Audi has a plan similar to BMW's in that all maintenance is covered for 4 years, thus it would be the most economical choice.

OTOH, the little devil on my shoulder says get the M3. It really isn't a rational choice in the least. Terrible mileage, tiny backseat, and I'd likely have to budget in speeding tickets. That said, I've made great strides in at least trying to rationalize it to myself. "When averaged with the MPG my bike gets, fuel costs won't be too bad." "The extra power will allow me to merge and pass more safely" "I'm not a taxi, why do I need a big backseat?" "The insurance will go down when I turn 25 next year anyway" "I'll just get a radar detector" "I don't need navigation, I have a great sense of direction!" and so on. I tried those reasons out on the woman while she was admonishing me to get something practical. She was less than convinced. ;f

And in the middle of these extremes, there is the G35 and 3-series. The TL has been all but ruled out because of the insurance cost and FWD. The cost of owning a CTS-V is nearly double that of the M3, putting it out of contention as well.

You may now return to the Caddy v. BMW flame -war in progress;f

c5367
08-18-2005, 08:07
They've succeeded in messing up my whole car buying calculus.

Now that I've switched to them, the insurance company I had been getting quotes from has radically changed some of them. There really is no rhyme or reason to the process it seems. Now, the M3 runs 890, but the CTS-V would be 880. BIG difference. Now the CTS-V is back in the running, especially since they've extended the employee discount promo. I think I'll head out to the Caddy dealer today and take her for a spin. I figure with the dough I would save, I could get some suspension upgrades and that resistor Z28 mentioned and go thrash some M3's ;f
The TL is now quoted as the cheapest to insure at 655, followed by the 330i at 670 and the A4 is bumped up to 780. The difference between the most expensive and least is less than 40/month, which does open up previous options that had been ruled out on that basis.

fnfalman
08-18-2005, 10:57
When buying a performance car, logic has nothing to do with it. It's all about the passion, especially when money is no longer a significant issue. I could have bought an M3 for the same price as my Z4, but why didn't I go with a faster car? Because it's not a two-seater ragtop, because it's heavy and can't be thrown into a corner as easily, and because it doesn't look as cool.

Buy what you want. The CTS-V is an impressive vehicle (thank to its German chassis;) ) and distinctive looking. But it ain't no BMW, much less M-Powered BMW. Car authorities just don't wake up one day and decided that BMW makes excellent vehicles. Car enthusiasts just don't wake up one day and decided to buy BMW because it's "kewl" or because lawyers drive them.

SJRTX
08-18-2005, 13:50
Look at this guys cadillac V. Ive seen it in person...and it looks and sounds.....its just pure sex. I think hes probably dropped in a stroker motor with a big cam now, but the car did have nitrous and exhaust and put a whoopin' on a lot of unsuspecting mustangs and stock F-body cars.

check out the pics...

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3358825#post3358825

Rob1035
08-18-2005, 17:42
I think you'll be happy no matter what you choose. I'm not a E46 M3 fan, as I think there are other cars that I prefer based on what criteria is most important for that day (i'm indecisive:cool: )

Like FNman, I chose a slower car due to feel and handling (my e30 versus faster bigger, heavier e36s), which at that time, were paramount to me. When I graduate, I feel my priorities will be different.

epsylum
08-18-2005, 18:35
Originally posted by fnfalman
When buying a performance car, logic has nothing to do with it. It's all about the passion, especially when money is no longer a significant issue. I could have bought an M3 for the same price as my Z4, but why didn't I go with a faster car? Because it's not a two-seater ragtop, because it's heavy and can't be thrown into a corner as easily, and because it doesn't look as cool.

Buy what you want. The CTS-V is an impressive vehicle (thank to its German chassis;) ) and distinctive looking. But it ain't no BMW, much less M-Powered BMW. Car authorities just don't wake up one day and decided that BMW makes excellent vehicles. Car enthusiasts just don't wake up one day and decided to buy BMW because it's "kewl" or because lawyers drive them.

Just like why my brother bought and is spending lots o bucks building his 91 GSX-R 1100 intead of just buying a Hayabusa. He aeasily has spent enough money on his Gixxer to have bought a busa and he likes (make that loves) the Busa, but the big bore gixxer is his passion. It's about what "does" it for you. For me, I don't care about numbers, all GM's (except the Z06 vette, not same thing in a different skin, just the vette) don't do anything for me. I am a Ford guy when it comes to US cars, I am a Toyota man when it comes to japanese cars, and I am a German car man when it comes to the euros (Audi, VW, Mercedes, Prosche, BMW). I would rather have a Porsche than any Ferrari (not like that will ever be something for me to have to worry about), 275 GTB and F-40 excluded.

That's what "does" it for me.

fnfalman
08-19-2005, 09:12
Yeah, but there's a big difference between boring out a Gixxer Thou and ricing a Honda Civic or Dodge Neon or Ford Focus.;)

epsylum
08-19-2005, 10:26
Originally posted by fnfalman
Yeah, but there's a big difference between boring out a Gixxer Thou and ricing a Honda Civic or Dodge Neon or Ford Focus.;)

huh?

who was ricing out a civic?

Anyway, his goal is to match a Busa in performance. He could have just bought one for how much he has spent to match it. But he just likes the Gixxer better. As he says "they don't make them like they used to". Double cradle frame so the big engine just sticks out into the air. Air/Oil cooled. etc.

Me, I would have just bought a Busa and gotten it overwith. Every day reliability and gobs of power all backed by a warrantee. But I guess I don't have the affinity he does towards those old GSX-Rs.

fnfalman
08-19-2005, 13:48
I was just saying that it's different to take a quality piece of work like a Gixxer and mod it out to match the power of a Busa than ricing out a Honda Civic to try to match a Mustang V8.

Some mods are just damned silly. Besides, there's nothing wrong with modding a Gixxer for more horsepower. The Hayabusa doesn't have the sporty handling and the lightweight of the Gixxer.

epsylum
08-19-2005, 18:37
Originally posted by fnfalman
The Hayabusa doesn't have the sporty handling and the lightweight of the Gixxer.

Umm the oil cooled big bore Gixxers weren't known for light weight, that engine weighs a ton.

Anyhow, I get it now, and yes there is a big difference. I was just trying to say some poeple like things that aren't the baddest thing out there and there is nothing wrong with that.

Oh and it takes one hell of a rider to push a Busa to it's handling limits. They are heavy, but competent in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. No it ain't a new Gixxer, but 99.9% of riders out there would be hard pressed to take it to it's limits. My brother went to a watch his buddy ride at a track day and a busa showed up (not heavily modified) and was puttin a hurtin on everyone else there (including all your modern supersport bikes). It just takes a rider that knows what they're doin and apperently he was by far the most competent one there.

saluki9
08-23-2005, 05:10
Originally posted by c5367
Update:
Just got done test driving the G35. My initial thoughts: ehhh. It honestly doesn't feel like it has just short of 300hp. Now, it doesn't feel slow either, but it didn't come across as the über-sports sedan some make it out to be. Then again, I really didn't lay into it. The shifter was very short throw, but very notchy and high effort. Definitely not as slick as the Acura or Audi. I did like the RWD, and even through the basic 4-turn test drive it felt like it could attack the twisties better than the other two.
The interior was tasteful and the fit and finish was on par with the Audi, but not the Acura. I did like the way the nav system hides when not in use, but the controls were only slightly better than the A4, which isn't saying much. Further, the intelligent key isn't available on the 6-spd, and no bluetooth. As far as nifty tech features go, the Infinity is behind the competition.
All in all, I'd have to say the G35 is nearly out of the running, unless I could get a very good deal. The salesman mentioned, without my even asking, that he could likely let it go for a touch above invoice. They had quite a few on the lot and the '06's will be here mid-Sep, so my impression is that they're pretty eager to unload them.

Tomorrow, I test the Bimmer 3-series and M3.


I'd give the G35 another chance. I have a 2005 G35X with everything. The car has a very sensitive ECU and if driven too gently before you drove it will keep that character. I suggest you take a test drive without a saleperson and really stomp on it. Give it a couple fast starts and it will really tear.

My only complaints about the car are the lack of a voice control on the navi and the piss poor gas mileage. Considering it costs me about $45 - $50 for a fillup, something better than 16mpg would be nice. Of course, the way I drive is to blame for that.

My best friend has the new TL. What can I say, it's a nice car but it's not an enthusiasts car.

c5367
08-23-2005, 05:29
Originally posted by fnfalman
When buying a performance car, logic has nothing to do with it. It's all about the passion, especially when money is no longer a significant issue. I could have bought an M3 for the same price as my Z4, but why didn't I go with a faster car? Because it's not a two-seater ragtop, because it's heavy and can't be thrown into a corner as easily, and because it doesn't look as cool.

Buy what you want. The CTS-V is an impressive vehicle (thank to its German chassis;) ) and distinctive looking. But it ain't no BMW, much less M-Powered BMW. Car authorities just don't wake up one day and decided that BMW makes excellent vehicles. Car enthusiasts just don't wake up one day and decided to buy BMW because it's "kewl" or because lawyers drive them.

What began as a quest for a nice, luxury sedan that would be practical and have a touch of sportiness ended up morphing into looking for an all out performer. You're right that when looking for a fun performance vehicle, logic and reason should go out the window. But that is where this beauty comes in.

http://www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorthamerica/en/logo/thumb_793_0.jpg
(Ducati 749R)

While it would be nice to have a 4-wheel toy as well, I do have Chicagoland winters to deal with.;1 Keeping that in mind, I think I have my choices narrowed to the A4 in 1st, 330i in 2nd and TL in 3rd. If the dealer can actually locate a 330i with nav and the other options I want, which at the moment looks as if it may be a problem, that ranking could change.

c5367
08-27-2005, 18:22
Well, I finally came to a decision today. After a false start on a 330i, I ended up putting down a deposit on the Acura TL. The dealer came through and got the price down to a few bucks over invoice and the color combo I wanted. I pick it up monday. I'm pretty excited, to say the least;f And with the money saved over the alternatives, I can afford more range time and track days on the bike!

Rob1035
08-27-2005, 18:32
excellent choice imho. A comfy, reliable, yet still semi-fun daily, and toys on the side:cool:

fnfalman
09-04-2005, 11:19
If the TL that you're getting has a manual tranny, that'll help a lot. Good buy.

c5367
09-04-2005, 14:08
Another update: No car yet. As it turns out the car they had promised ended up getting sold out from under them, but they managed to find a black/black instead. It should be in sometime next week. I'm a bit tired of having my chain yanked after hearing a week's worth of "it'll be in tomorrow," though. :steamed: I may just end up getting my deposit back and order a 330i and deal with the wait.

c5367
03-05-2006, 17:58
Heh

I thought it be fun to resurrect this old thread with an update. I ended up buying a TL, which was nice. I traded it in with only 2700 miles on the clock for an '05
G35 Sedan 6MT, w/ everything.

All the guys who said this car was fast were right. The shifter complaints I had were due to the car being cold, but when it warms up the gearbox is very nice. I've read this is due to the short shifter that it comes with from the factory.

It has made it through our lovely Chicago winter thanks to a set of Blizzaks, and it performs wonderfully in whatever crap weather was thrown at us.

TexasGlock23
03-07-2006, 16:47
G35 or Caddy, parts on Caddy's are expensive also. I know, I sell parts!

tgtshuter
03-10-2006, 20:29
Thanks for the update, and congrats on your G35 - with the MT! ^c They are nice cars.

I went thru a siliar test drive comparison (no CTS but tried the Volvo S40T5), and ended up ordering a BMW 325i

epsylum
03-10-2006, 21:41
Originally posted by c5367
Heh

I thought it be fun to resurrect this old thread with an update. I ended up buying a TL, which was nice. I traded it in with only 2700 miles on the clock for an '05
G35 Sedan 6MT, w/ everything.

All the guys who said this car was fast were right. The shifter complaints I had were due to the car being cold, but when it warms up the gearbox is very nice. I've read this is due to the short shifter that it comes with from the factory.

It has made it through our lovely Chicago winter thanks to a set of Blizzaks, and it performs wonderfully in whatever crap weather was thrown at us.

I am trying to talk my uncle into getting a 350Z Track (he hates all the electronic gizmos and just wants a plain fast and fun car). He just got through his second divorce and is well into his midlife crisis (has been for some time, but now he can spend his money on himself and not on someone else's kids). He needs a fast and badass looking car and he is not a very big fan of American cars.

The hard part is, he is a Beemer freak, but does like Japanese cars and the Z is right in his budget and the "Track" package intruiged him (more fast, less gizmos).

I personally think the G35 coupe looks much better than the Z, but I too would go for the barebones version, the Z. I like bang for the buck. Plus I had an 86 300ZX that had all teh gizoms. Those damn things break later on down the road. My Z had that stupid talking car thing that was big in the 80's, like it was freakin KITT or something. The stupid thing sfreaked out and just started telling me my "Left door is open" over and over and over......, until I found the wire to the speaker and pulled it. The the super-futuristic all digital dash would go out every now and then. Also the POS integrated factory alarm would randomly set itself (I to this day have no idea how to acually set it) and then go off at the worst possible times.

I have had bad luck with Nissan gizmos, no more.

Sorry for the rant. ;f

BTW nice car, where are the pics?

c5367
03-11-2006, 09:58
Originally posted by epsylum
I am trying to talk my uncle into getting a 350Z Track (he hates all the electronic gizmos and just wants a plain fast and fun car). He just got through his second divorce and is well into his midlife crisis (has been for some time, but now he can spend his money on himself and not on someone else's kids). He needs a fast and badass looking car and he is not a very big fan of American cars.

The hard part is, he is a Beemer freak, but does like Japanese cars and the Z is right in his budget and the "Track" package intruiged him (more fast, less gizmos).

I personally think the G35 coupe looks much better than the Z, but I too would go for the barebones version, the Z. I like bang for the buck. Plus I had an 86 300ZX that had all teh gizoms. Those damn things break later on down the road. My Z had that stupid talking car thing that was big in the 80's, like it was freakin KITT or something. The stupid thing sfreaked out and just started telling me my "Left door is open" over and over and over......, until I found the wire to the speaker and pulled it. The the super-futuristic all digital dash would go out every now and then. Also the POS integrated factory alarm would randomly set itself (I to this day have no idea how to acually set it) and then go off at the worst possible times.

I have had bad luck with Nissan gizmos, no more.

Sorry for the rant. ;f

BTW nice car, where are the pics?

Has he gotten a chance to test drive one yet? The Z are very nice cars. Same motor as the G35, but it weighs 300lbs less and has the front and rear strut braces, so its a bit more capable in the twisty spots. I agree with on the g35 coupe v the Z, but the coupe actually weighs more the the sedan, which is weird. You do at least get a back seat in the G coupe.

I know FNFALman is gonna jump on this, but I'd take the Z over any comparably priced Bimmer any day. I like BMWs, but the value just isn't there, compared to the Z.

Nissna seems to have gotten the gizmos right. The 80's were the beginning of the learning curve for the Japanese auto makers and they're way ahead of the pack now. I haven't had any problems aside from the tires' propensity for collecting nails. Happed right after In put the Blizzaks on. I just switched them out and it happened again Thursday. I was on my way to NOLA and had to stop in some town in Arkansas to get it plugged. Thats where the tire pressure sensor really helped. I wouldn't have know unless it came on.

I'll post some pics when I get back home. On the way down here, it rained from Chicago all the way through Mississipi the entire time, so it's absolutley filthy right now.

fnfalman
03-13-2006, 09:36
Originally posted by c5367

I know FNFALman is gonna jump on this, but I'd take the Z over any comparably priced Bimmer any day. I like BMWs, but the value just isn't there, compared to the Z.



If I were to worry about values, I would have bought a Mustang GT.

The Nissan Z is simply too damn heavy, even the Track model is heavy. The real Z is a lot lighter not to mention that the new 2006 has 30-hp more AND larger/ventilated front/rear brakes and significantly revised suspension.

Anyway, I don't really care. Cars bore the hell out of me. They simply aren't fast enough to get my juices going. The only time I'd bring out my car nowadays is to take some chick on a date.

Corvette, Mustang, BMW Motorsports, Ferraris, Lambos, blah, blah, blah. Slow as molasses.

c5367
03-13-2006, 09:39
Originally posted by fnfalman
...Anyway, I don't really care. Cars bore the hell out of me. They simply aren't fast enough to get my juices going. The only time I'd bring out my car nowadays is to take some chick on a date.

Corvette, Mustang, BMW Motorsports, Ferraris, Lambos, blah, blah, blah. Slow as molasses.

You gotta point here;z Two wheeled fun isn't for everyone though.

matt1512
03-30-2006, 15:04
My opinion go for the caddy. More of a sport luxury. Very nice engine. Ls2 400hp/ 400lbs of torgue. Great drive, nice and responsive. A luxury sedan that most sports cars cant touch.

agb
03-30-2006, 15:16
I just traded in my Beemer for a G-35 with sports package at Competition BMW/Competition Infinity in Smithtown, LI. I was at the Beemer dealer to trade up my 330 and decided to walk across the lot. Well, the G-35 is simply better finished and has many benefits which I found out about after taking it out on the road. At first it felt too different from the Beemer, but soon enough I got the hang of it. The Beemer still has a little, a tiny bit of advantage in tight cornering and evasive maneuvers. Overall though, the G-35 is the real deal, almost too cheap for what it actually costs.

It is a larger, more powerful and faster car and smoother in the engine AND transmission. One can feel the difference in less vibration and smoother acceleration. The sports package provides a marginally harder ride and the G-35 is noisier on rough roads. Yet the chassis is tighter. One can get 19" forged wheels, large tires and a great nav system; the G-35 is simply a better deal. Money was really no object here (I buy expensive guns, handmade knives and watches, and high end audio) so price was hardly the determining factor. And if I were a snob I'd not be buying a Japanese car...I'd be buying German.

The seats are far better than the Beemer's (the M3 though matches it.) Hand sewn steering wheel, aluminum pedals, a lot of nice touches and detail. Back seats suck for rear passengers for lack of headroom. But if you wanted a performing sports car with four seats, rather than two, and can make the compromise for the higher performance coupe over the sedan, then take one out for a spin. And yes, they look great on the road...terrific engine and tranny AND chassis and suspension. And the Bose sound system is substantially superior to the Beemer's Harman-Kardon. (As for high end home audio, Bose is a piece of turd.)

Just FYI. I had to travel fifty miles to the Infiniti/BMW dealer and I have a local BMW dealer four miles from my home. Also a Lexus, Mercedes, Jag, Porsche and Audi dealers in the same area. Yet I chose the dealer 50 miles away because he had the car I liked the most and the others did not.

In any event, cars are personal preferences but it makes sense to try out a handful before signing papers. I test drove all of the above...

'Nuff said.






H-K is the answer. What is the question?

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=6000018#post6000018