Delta Elitre range report

[susan28]

well, finally got that NIB Delta i've been craving, and took it to the range for de-virginisation with some DT 135, 155 and 165 GD's.

first oddity was that i accidentally squeezed 9 rounds into the stock mag. i wasn't sure so i unloaded it and reloaded making sure not to exceed 8.

shot 3 rounds of 135 and had a FTE, with the case tipped up against the top of the chamber. might that be a symptom of the stock recoil spring setup? or maybe a limp-writsting? dunno, it never happens with the G20, but cleared that, and the next round fed in with a relase of the slide.

finished that and about 8 mags of the assorted DT with no problem, however, after the first mag, i was only thereafter able to get 7 rounds in the mag, and even #7 seemed tight. dunno if i messed something up with the initial 9-round loading or what, but the mag was easier to load the first time than subsequently. any thoughts on this?

as far as how it shot, it was very accurate, with 2-3" groups at 20 yards, which is about my usual with the G20. not bad for a new gun, but the trgger was a little rough and attempts at quick follow-ups caused me to shoot low, which i tend to do anyway. the groups, as is usual with me, were all on-center but vertically-spaced, the follow-ups being the low ones. the first shots of each mag were right in the X, the remainders within 2-3" horizontally and extending down to 3", or right about to the bottom of a small shoot-n-c.

as i've said before i prefer the recoil traits of the Delta to those of the G20. to me, it flips less and comes back on target faster and more naturally, and i also notice that the web of my thumb isn't aching the way it does after a session with the G20, but the trigger will need work before i'll be able to realise the advantage of the lower muzzle flip. not an issue as i'll be sending it off for a full makeover next month 'soon as i get the purchase price off my card. just wanted to shoot it stock once for comparison.

oh, yes, regarding the "stock" thing: even with the DT, i didn't experience the "hammer bite" i often hear of with stock 1911's, but will probably still opt for a beavertail to raise the grip a bit.

one final comment is that i'm sitting here now with the recoil spring plug removed but am having difficulty pushing out the slide release with my thumb. do these sometimes require to be tapped out?

i had this problem last night trying to take it apart so for the initial cleaning (the gun was already spotless) i just opened the slide and ran a swab in from the chamber, but need to give it a post-shooting clean now and remove the barrel and springs before sending it off, any advice on this?

overall a great experience, just need to get used to the 1911.. uhhh.. "eccentricities" ..

[susan28]

ok, got'r done.. the manual didn't mention the "jiggling" phase of the pin-removal process.. it's obviously a tactic to thwart cleaning attempts by enemy soldiers who find 1911's on the battlefield :)

all clean, imma proud mama.. still open for comments on the mag and FTE issues though if anyone has them..

[agtman]

Susan, the FTE could be attributable to limp-wristing an unfamiliar gun while firing a HIGH energy 10mm load (if that's the only FTE you had).

Are the mags stock Colt Delta mags? If so, they should hold 8-rds with no problems. Maybe the prior owner installed Wolff's XP mag springs? If so, they could make for tight loading of the eighth round until broken in.

Felt-recoil will change noticably if you (or your 'smith) combine a heavier single recoil spring and FLGR set-up WITH one of the better aftermarket BT grips safeties, like an Ed Brown. With the BT GS, your hand will sit up under the gun more, and they all disperse the recoil impulse better than the factory GS does.

[G33]

Enjoy!:)

[susan28]

G33: thanks Island Grrl!!

Agtman: the gun is NIB (i exercised my option to return the first one upon seeing this one advertised, the timing seemed fateful) and the magazine is stock and looks unused til today.

as i said in my post i somehow lost track and squeezed *9* rounds in on the first loading, unloaded just to check (yep, 9!), then loaded 8 without too much difficulty. so i shoot that magful and thereafter could only squeeze in 7. it could just be sore fingers.. hitting Brownell's for a loader as we speak..

and yes, it was just that one FTE, the rest of the session went fine.

probably not gonna shoot it further, trigger's a lil rough, as is safety, just wanted a stock shooting experience as a reference point to judge the finished product by. sooner Vic gets it the sooner i'll have it back.

[CokdNLoded]

Put the factory guide and spring away for collector reasons and get a quality full length rod and a 22# spring. I use the Cominolli guide as it has buffers on both sides. My Delta has never had an FTE or an FTF.

[SilverState]

Originally posted by CokdNLoded
Put the factory guide and spring away for collector reasons and get a quality full length rod and a 22# spring. I use the Cominolli guide as it has buffers on both sides. My Delta has never had an FTE or an FTF.

Susan,

Does the above quote sound familiar?

Nice to hear you are having fun blasting away with your Delta while my ffl was taking his sweet time in getting his lic. to the seller.

Anyway, if I was concerned about my mag, I would remove the floorplate and take a look at the follower and spring to see if something is bent or kinked, etc. I wouldn't try to overload the mag even if it takes the extra round. Same with the Glock mags - you can sometimes get 18 into a standard capacity flush floorplate mag, but you run the risk for messing up the sping and/or follower.

As for takedown with a stubborn slide stop/release, assuming you have the slide in the right position (very critical), I sometimes use the end of a toothbrush to push the "pin" out.

Oh, almost forgot, I like the Virgil Tripp Cobra Mags for my 10mm 1911. Another board member turned me on to them and they are great. Hell, they are even designed to take 9 rounds. You can see the bottom of a Cobra Mag in the pic below along with some DT 135gr 1600fps ammo and VZ grips:

http://sincitypitbulls.freeservers.com/Kimber1911LVZ.jpg

[susan28]

yes it sounds like something i've heard recently from an esteemed collegue (smiling).. the recoil assembly's definitely getting switched out, just wantted to shoot it bone-stock just that once.

double-buffered sounds good. as i'd mentioned to Silver recently i'd "heard" from some (maybe idiots, who knows online) who say they "only use buffers at the range but not for carry", citing reliability concerns (whatever they meant by that), but this Delta will be a SD gun and i practice with what i use (DT) so it'll have to be tough.

i didn't intentionally overstuff that mag (and emptied it when i thought maybe i had), just got lost in the excitement i guess and didn't expect to be able to overstuff a magazine, you can't with my other guns so i'm used to just loading til it sez uncle basically, but from now on i'll count!

and yes i've heard of the Tripp hi-caps, and some others as well, which i'd like to try. Agtman reviewed some of them on his (EXCELLENT) 10mm page. but even my stock mags will be getting new springs, like i said just wanted to try it once out-of-box.

oh and yes that slide release.. well like i said i got it out but not sure what made the critical difference. i know for sure i had the slide properly aligned. i'd push on the pin and it would move like 1mm then stop (even though i've seen people just push them out with their thumbs) i covered it with a towel and tapped it with a steel rod and it seemed to move in a lil but still couldn't pull it out from the other side, then i jiggled it a lil and it came out. i'm thinking the plunger might've played a part, as i had to push it in to get the lever back on, despite the manual's instruction to simply "push the lever up and in". that thing wasn't having "up and in" without holding the plunger back.. maybe it would've if i pressed it against the frame, but i didn't want to scratch it.

gorgeous Kimber you have there, Silver, that hard-chrome? the grips and mag base set it off real nice..

[agtman]

Susan - glad to see you're starting out with a NIB Delta.

On the recoil spring weight ...

A lot depends on the average power level of the loads you'll be running thru the gun. There's been a lot of debate on this board and elsewhere (like Pistolsmith.com) about the "right" Wolff recoil spring weight for 10mm 1911s (it assumes use of a FLGR).

Some run recoil springs as light as 18lbs with a buff. Others use the XP 26+lb "rock crushers."

Remember, Colt's goofy double-spring factory unit allegedly produced 23lbs of recoil resistance ( ;Q - iffy at best, trust me). But that's at least a place to start for determining the optimum spring weight for your Delta. Base your choice(s) on the power level of 10mm load that you anticipate firing the most.

In mine I run a 22lb spring plus a buff. But I'll swap in a 24lb spring (plus buff) if I'm firing more than, say, 100rds of the hot stuff in one range session (DT; Texas Ammo). The 24lb spring is the stiffest I've used. The gun runs fine with either weight spring. Tried the 20lb spring a few times, but didn't like it.

Someone with a DW or Kimber might go lighter or heavier, depending on the 10mm load being shot and the resulting handling characteristics of the gun.

10mm 1911s are funny that way. In taming the recoil impulse, it's a fine line between too light and too heavy. You don't want the frame getting beat up in either direction (as the slide comes back or when it slams forward again). And you don't want the recoil impulse affecting your grip or displacing your hand's control over the gun with hot loads (hence the necessary custom mods by Vic, as we've discussed ;) ). Good luck :)

:cool:

[susan28]

i'll be shooting only Double Tap or equivalent loads, period. the mildest i'll ever go is silvertips. i've tried lighter stuff in my G20 to save my hand a lil wear and tear, but stopped doing that because it's too different from my defense rounds. i'm sticking to practicing with my defense loads, which are DT 135, 155 and 165, though i may try their 180gr practice ammo, or silvertips in a pinch, so i'm figuring 20-22. i'll probably opt for a bull barrel so that will let me avoid the heavy springs a bit.

what difference do you perceive in the spring rates over the 20-24# range, did the 20 FTF sometimes?

also, do you have any reliability issues with buffers?

(sorry just wanted to bounce this off you since i have your attention :) )

[agtman]

Susan:

No reliability issues in mine when using buffs with either 22/24lb springs.

"20-22lb spring" + a bull barrel. This should be fine. Vic may have a specific recommendation too, once he's got your Delta all set-up and has test-fired it a bit.

Basically, in my gun, I just felt the 20lb spring wasn't slowing down the slide enough. No FTF or FTEs at all.

DT's 180gn practice load (@ 1250fps) works fine with the 22 or 24lb spring. Hotter than that (i.e., Texas Ammo's 10mm or any of DT's high performance HPs, 135gns to 200gns), the 24lb spring goes in, w/ buff.

If the 10mm ammo is in the mid-to-low range, like Hornady's factory loads, CCI/Blazer's 200gn TMJ, Georgia Arm's 180gn range load (@ 1100fps), Winchester STHPs, PMC or basically any plinking/target level stuff, the 20lb spring is plenty.

With GA's 10mm Gold Dot HP carry loads, I've run the 20lb spring when using the 180gn GDs (@ 1150fps/528fpe), and at times either the 20 & 24lb spring when shooting their 155gn GDs (@ 1375/651fps).

You've pretty much got to experiment to see what works/feels right. Hope this helps.

[susan28]

yep helps alot Agtman, thanks much.

basically just wanna simulate the DT 135-165's as much as possible in the range sessions, so when not using them outright, dropping the spring rate with lighter loads might give a similar "feel" ..

now nothing to do but hurry up and WAIT, heh.. but well worth it for my dream Delta..

thanks to all of you for the comments.

[nickE10mm]

I haven't even had time to really read this thread in detail, but on your recoil spring question, I have two suggestions based on what it seems you're shooting most.

1) a 24 lb spring, no buffs. OR
2) a 20 lb spring, EGW Flat Bottom FPS, no buff

My Kimber STII 10mm ran great with lazy, slow loads all the way up through nuclear loads with a 24 lb spring only. I wouldn't worry so much about battering as long as your delta has the newer (revised) frame. They use good steel and frame cracks were pretty much eliminated when Colt removed a bit of metal on a certain area of the frame.

Actually, I would go with option #2 above as the most optimal route IMHO. Springs only redirect. Flat bottom FPS's actually slow the slide unlock down. That is key.

Good luck and trust me, you will love 1911 more and more with time. It happens to everyone. :)

[susan28]

it's ok nickE, you're obsess.. i mean busy with your own project right now :)

it does have the factory frame cut, but aside from cracking, i'd also like to avoid things like peening on the rails.

i'll definitely be using the EGW fp stop and a good FLGR, only thing yet to be decided is to buf or not to buf. why no bufs for you?

[JWP]

grew up on 1811s and still love them 28, but the glocks carry better for me - that said - if/when you get the beavertail installed you will find that the 1911 acts more like a glock as the bore centerline is lowered which transmitts the recoil impulse more straight back with less flip - it is amazing what the difference is if you shoot unmodded vs modded side by side

i agree that 9 rds may have kinked or otherwise affected the mag spring - spring has to sit properly in mag to allow the loads - if kinked could bind with more than 7

mags should come apart easily unless welded bottom, on those you load 3-4 rounds and poke a toothpick or other small rod through holes in side of mag [below the rounds and follower] and then unload the mag - this allows follower to come out - then release spring carefully [i use a dowell rod to compress the spring slightly to remove toothpick, etc

sounds hard but easy after first time

oh weight of 1911 gets wearing after 12 hrs or so [used to carry para p14 with +2 mags and 2 extra mags for 49 rds total lol] and then the glock rocks

[susan28]

well dang JWP, a 1911 and 49rds, good thing you weren't into ballooning :)

thanks for the tip.. dunno how much i'd wanna rely on s spring that had been kinked even if i did un-kink it, but it's getting replaced anyhoo.. interesting to have a look at it though just to see what's up.

[JWP]

ballooning? no more like sinking under the weight - was a 1911 clone - paraordnance p14 - felt recoil like g21/30/20s

[turbonatr]

Limp-wristing generally occurs with lightly loaded ammo, not heavy loads. Reason being, the light loads barely have enough recoil energy to cycle the slide. When you hold the gun with a "limp wrist", the gun now malfunctions. High-energy loads typically have more than enough recoil energy to cycle the slide, even if you hold the gun with a limp wrist. Generally speaking, it's much harder to limp wrist a 10mm pistol loaded with full-power ammo than say a 9mm pistol loaded with light loads. IMHO, your malfunction wasn't due to a limp wrist. I would simply attribute it to a new pistol that needs a few hundred or so rounds through it to loosen it up a bit (especially being a 1911).

My Delta Elite runs a 24lb. recoil spring and a Wilson Combat FLGR. This, of course, after the stock Colt set-up broke (which yours will, trust me). The stock springs are rated at 23lbs, but don't feel any stronger than the 16lb. spring in my Kimber Classic .45. The 24lb. spring will definately require more effort in order to manually cycle the slide, especially if the trigger is down and not cocked. Smaller stature shooters have difficulty cycling the slide of my DE.

At any rate, the DE runs fine with all 10mm ammo, from 155gr. FMJs at 1050fps to DT fodder. I think the 24lb. set-up is ideal.

[spober]

almost as stupid as having a hack hack on a new DE!

[SilverState]

Hey Susan,

I thought I would post a pic of my new Delta grips. I have them and some Wilson Combat parts just waiting for my ffl to get to Lewis so he can ship it. Anyway, what do you think:

http://i11.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/94/ea/e1_1_b.JPG

[susan28]

those are SWEET what is that? looks like wood but the colour's gorgeous...

[nickE10mm]

nice grips!!!

[SilverState]

Thanks. If you want, I will give you the guy's e-mail address. They are ebony wood.

[susan28]

yes thanks, i'd love to sample his wares.