Double Tap 230 gr :May be pushing the limi; brass near failure in G30

[Ljunatic]

DoubleTap 230 gr GoldDots Are currently my choice in defensive ammo.... until today that is.

When I went to clean up a load of once fired brass for reloading, I noticed that all the once fired Starline brass has huge bulges in the unsupported area.

Maybe its just me , but i thought this bulging was excessive.

I also wonder just how close to a case failure these load comes in my G30http://home.earthlink.net/~ljunatic/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dtbuldge1.jpg



Edit for better pic

[big68]

WOW, I have shot the Doubletap 230's thru mine and they did not look like that. It is very strange because they are not loaded to +p pressures. I would check with Mike @ Double tap and see what he has to say. I still stick with 200grn Gold Dots +p though, especially in my G30

[Cross]

Originally posted by big68
I would check with Mike @ Double tap and see what he has to say.

That is a good idea. If you can, I would try and get a measurement - I would expect some movement in the brass. As far as reaching the pressure limit, how do the primers look?

[Ljunatic]

I can see no indication of primer flow or flattening.The
breech marks on the base look identical to my other fired casings.


I am just concerned that the Starline brass may not be up to the task. Maybe the +p brass should be used.

<strike>I did email Double Tap, but its the weekend, and I don't expect they will reply until Monday.</strike>

I never had a bulged case in this G30 prior to using this load. I do regularly fire Speer Goldot 200gr +p and my own reloads that are near +p pressures without the slightest indication of a bulge in the brass.



edit:
I checked the mail and Mike had replied last night late.

I gave him the picture and all lot data ,and he will check it out. I have no doubt that if there is a problem Mike will take care of it.
Please, Big Dawgs, don't take my post as a knock on Double Tap. My only purpose here was to find out if this has been a common problem, and to avert a Kaboom if a problem does exist.

[Ljunatic]

I measured the cases while at work today with my good digital calipers at .4775" and the high spot on the bulge at .492" - .493"

Mike has all the lot info, so I will wait for a reply

[Cross]

I've seen some on various .45 reloads. I went to look at my reloads to see what they measured at but I had already resized them. I don't think they were that far out though. I have a DE 44 that does that them resize and fire ok but I have yet to take it beyond 3 reloads.

[Ljunatic]

Although I am disappointed that I can not reload these casings I will gladly dispose of them to prevent a blown out reloaded case.

I am more concerned that this problem may result in a new round failing. I don't have enough experience with this to know how serious a problem I have here.

I just know that I can't carry a round that I don't trust 100%

[turbonatr]

Any update on this?

[Ljunatic]

No reply since the initial request for lot and date of manufacture info.

I am a bit disappointed.~sd

[turbonatr]

WHat methods of contact have you tried? PM? Email? Phone call?

[USPcompact45]

Does doubletap manufacture bullets using reused brass?

[turbonatr]

No. New brass in their JHP and FMJ practice loads.

[xd>glock2me]

Mike has been hard to reach lately

[J.D. Locke]

I believe he just finished his move to his new place.I'd give him a couple more days.:)

[TimP]

I'm not defending anyone here, just making some observations.

1: glock chambers are loose, at best. If your not using a fully supported barrel while shooting hot stuff, you will get a case bulge.

2: These are hot 45acp loads

3: We all know DT ammo is hot, really hot. I prefer not to reload cases that were loaded as hot as Mike loads them. For me a defensive load is a one time use case.

4: Did you have any problems other than the bulging? Fail to feed, fail to extract?

[Ljunatic]

No. no other problems other than the case bulge.

My concern was for the amount of case bulge, averaging .013" , some reaching .015" ,which I considered excessive.

My own near +p handloads(9.0 gr HS-6 230 gr Goldot) have had no issues with case bulge in the same barrel with new Winchester non +p brass

I just wanted reassurance that these loads were not defective , or possibly that the brass may be bad ,or that some other problem during manufacturing might have ocurred.

If DT finds a problem , I'm sure they will take care of it

If I was at home I could try to post a better pic , but I am relaxing in the Rockies this week.



edit for spelling

[IMAS]

While I am wondering where the UPS man is, I'm also wondering about the safety of the 9MM. This is a bit concerning.

[TimP]

Originally posted by IMAS
While I am wondering where the UPS man is, I'm also wondering about the safety of the 9MM. This is a bit concerning.

[TimP]

Originally posted by IMAS
While I am wondering where the UPS man is, I'm also wondering about the safety of the 9MM. This is a bit concerning.

What 9mm loading did you go with?

[k2ue]

I also got some significant base expansion of the Double-Tap 230gr as well, and I would be concerned about the possibility of a weak case wreaking havok. I think they should move to a heavier case, since the glock market is so large.

For me the point is moot because the recoil recovery time was significantly higher than my usual Golden Sabre (non-P+), and I found the extra puch was negated by the slower string times, so I stayed with standard pressure loads.

[IMAS]

Originally posted by TimP
What 9mm loading did you go with?

124gr

[Ascaris]

IMAS,

I would not have a problem using extra-hot ammo in 9mm Glocks. The 9mm Glocks don't have the poor chamber support of the .40, .45, 10mm Glocks. They are not "fully" supported, but they are very close, and even with my hottest handloads and +P+ factory loads, I have never seen a bulged case from my G17 or G19. Others have reported that even the super-super hot Hirtenberger SMG 9mm ammo works well in 9mm Glocks, despite the warnings that it is not suitable for pistols.

I consider the oversize chamber and deep throating of the bigger Glocks to be a design flaw that should have been corrected years ago. There are plenty of guns out there that feed .40 and .45 reliably and still have well-supported, non-oversize chambers, and if they can do it without taking the easy way out, then so can Glock, and they should have. Hogging out the chambers and throats was a shortcut Glock used to make them feed reliably, rather than to finish the engineering that would allow them to feed reliably with tighter chambers.

My Kahr K40 has a chamber that is as well supported as my Glock 9mm chambers, and it's tighter (it won't accept brass that had been fired in a Glock [not to the point of bulging] and resized) -- and yet it feeds anything sized within spec, including the Cor-Bon loads with their gaping hollowpoints.

Glock 9mms are designed to use NATO-spec 9x19 ammo, and according to Glock, have a max design pressure of 43,500 psi, which is well into +P+ territory (this was either from the manual or the GLOCK Annual, I forget which), and well above what you would see in any of Double Tap's loads (which would be under 38,500 psi as +P loads).

I will be ordering some Double Tap 9mm this week.

Frank

[MCNETT]

It has been a stressful time for me lately, I apologize for not responing to this thread earlier. It has been more than a month since I have been on GT. I finally had time to test the lot # that Ljunatic gave me and they were running at 21,200psi. this is slightly warmer than our usual 20,200psi. I ran some of the test samples through several weapons and did not get any bulges, but that does not mean that it wasn't the culprit in your weapon. I am interested in getting the fired casings mailed to our office, if possible. Hopefully I can glean some more info from them. In the meantime, give us a call and we can verify your address to send some replacements to you.
-Mike

[k2ue]

Originally posted by MCNETT
It has been a stressful time for me lately, I apologize for not responing to this thread earlier. It has been more than a month since I have been on GT. I finally had time to test the lot # that Ljunatic gave me and they were running at 21,200psi. this is slightly warmer than our usual 20,200psi. I ran some of the test samples through several weapons and did not get any bulges, but that does not mean that it wasn't the culprit in your weapon. I am interested in getting the fired casings mailed to our office, if possible. Hopefully I can glean some more info from them. In the meantime, give us a call and we can verify your address to send some replacements to you.
-Mike

I'd be happy to send back the half box I haven't used -- I gave away all the fired casings. PM with preferred shipping method & any reference number to but on box.

[Ljunatic]

Mike, I have about 20 or so pieces of brass that I can send you. I will get in contact with your office.

Thanks