Cocked and Unlocked?

[ArmyCop]

Anyone carry cocked and unlocked?

I carry C&L but on duty have had C&UL when checking out questional situation and still holstered.

Just wondering if anyone carried C&UL normally.

[ILikeFtLbs]

That's not very safe. The only time you should have it cocked and unlocked is if it's in your hand.

[KinderGlocken]

Please do not do this!

[freepatriot]

You can unlock the thumb safety in the time it takes to draw and present, so I see no advantage to unlocking the safety when still in the holster.

What advantage were you trying to gain?

[jem375]

actually I see no reason you can't carry C&UL if it suits you when on duty...it is up to you how to carry, everyone has their own opinion on carrying anyway..

[Tangle]

Isn't C&UL'd the exact way a Springfield XD is carried, grip safety and all?

[ILikeFtLbs]

Yes, except you also have a trigger safety, and a firing pin safety which many 1911's don't have. Also, the striker doesn't have enough energy stored to set the primer off until the trigger is pulled.

[1911austin]

Originally posted by ILikeFtLbs
Yes, except you also have a trigger safety, and a firing pin safety which many 1911's don't have. Also, the striker doesn't have enough energy stored to set the primer off until the trigger is pulled.

XD strikers do have enough energy to set off primers.

[Tangle]

Originally posted by ILikeFtLbs
Yes, except you also have a trigger safety, and a firing pin safety which many 1911's don't have. Also, the striker doesn't have enough energy stored to set the primer off until the trigger is pulled.
I don't understand, "...the striker doesn't have enough energy stored to set the primer off until the trigger is pulled. Isn't the striker fully cocked and under full pressure from the firing pin spring any time a round is chambered?

And, the XD has a firing pin block which indicates that it is needed to prevent an inertial discharge. Plus, if a 1911 doesn't have firing pin block, it doesn't matter whether the thumb safety is engaged or not, it can still have an inertial discharge.

[ILikeFtLbs]

You can do what you want, but it is not a safe practice. I don't see your point that because a gun can still go off with a safety engaged, you don't need to use it. There's no reason to not put on the safety when the gun is holstered. The XD doesn't have a thumb safety because it isn't necessary for the design. It is part of the design of the 1911. Please use it.

Ted Nugent, as one example, put his Commander 1911 in his strong side holster after forgetting to turn on the thumb safety and luckily missed himself as the gun went off. -- God, Guns, and Rock n' Roll

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by jem375
actually I see no reason you can't carry C&UL if it suits you when on duty...it is up to you how to carry, everyone has their own opinion on carrying anyway..


WHY would he want to do so though???

[michael t]

I guess you could do it.It's really up to you. I will send your name in for consideration for the Big Darwin award. :)

[dirksterG30]

sounds like a recipe for disaster! The 1911 is designed to be C & L. The thumb safety is an integral part of the design.

[El_Ron1]

Training issue.

[auto45]

The reason you don't is the very short trigger "throw". It's an accident waiting to happen unless the gun is on target.

It would be the same as carrying a revolver with it cocked...foolish.

Other types have very long and heavier trigger pulls which don't require manual safeties because it would take a very deliberate trigger "effort" to fire.

[ArmyCop]

Well, you'd still have the grip safety.

Isn't a glock with one in chamber equivalent to cocked and unlocked?

The 1911 won't fire unless thumb safety off, grip safety engaged then trigger has to be pulled.

[Ulysses]

You are crazy.

If you want to carry cocked and unlocked get a glock.

You expose yourself to a lot of liability if you do not follow the manual of arms for the firearm you are issued.

E.G.

Striker fired gun (Glock/Sigma) -
Safe mode of carry is chambered in a holster covering the trigger guard

TDA -
TDA Revolver or pistol - Chambered with hammer down. Safety on autos maybe engaged if required by Department. (If you lack a firing pin safety you might have to carry with an empty chamber)

Single Action
If you have a firing pin safety or modern design with low weight or high spring strength firing pin like a modern Springfield 1911 has you probably can carry cocked and locked. If you don't have a firing pin safety or a older or uncertain single action design chamber emptied under hammer.

Others
RTFM Read the &*#$ manual

[Short Cut]

I carry a Kimber Series II and I do use the thumb safety. However I also wouldn't worry about the gun going off by itself without the thumb safety engaged, providing it is in a holster that fully covers the trigger guard.

The Series II has the following safeties:
Thumb safety Grip safety Firing pin block Half cock notch

I do think that the thumb safety is worth using and with training shouldn't slow the first shot anymore than not using it. The most hazardous thing, I can think of, about carrying a Series II without the thumb safety engaged would be holstering it.

[jem375]

Originally posted by scottauld
WHY would he want to do so though??? because he might want to.....he might actually have the knowledge to carry that way, I know I would not be afraid to carry it cocked and unlocked...

[johnniekirk]

Use the thumb safety, it does'nt take anymore energy, or time to engage the safety when holstering your 1911. Matter of fact, it should be second nature, for you to flick that safety up while in the process of holstering your weapon. If not train some more. Don't get in the habit of using shortcuts. Shortcuts= ND's. Just my .02 cents worth.

[tag]

Originally posted by ArmyCop
Well, you'd still have the grip safety.

Isn't a glock with one in chamber equivalent to cocked and unlocked?

The 1911 won't fire unless thumb safety off, grip safety engaged then trigger has to be pulled.

If you are trained properly, then you could easily disengage the thumb safety on the draw stroke. In your training, you should do this EACH AND EVERY TIME you draw the firearm from the holster as you bring it up on target. The safety should not be disengaged until the firearm is brought up on target.

Your lack of confidence in your ability to disengage the thumb safety under stress is evidence of your lack of training in that particular weapons platform. Given your screen name, I would guess you are very familar with the M9. I suggest you switch to that until you get proper training on the 1911.

[tag]

Originally posted by jem375
because he might want to.....he might actually have the knowledge to carry that way, I know I would not be afraid to carry it cocked and unlocked...

The fact that he is asking the question on glocktalk clearly indicated that he does not have the knowledge to carry that way.

[sharpstick]

The glock and the 1911 are so tottaly differnt that the only thing they share is they boath hit the primer.

First the glock is not truely a DA and its not truely a SA.The fireing spring,as with most modern striker fired pistols is only stored at half cock.The lenth of pull on a glock is due to the fact that you must push the spring farther back in order to generate enuff power to set of the shell.they are safe to carry for this reason.

The 1911,has a hammer that when cocked is always at the verge of going off.The spring pressure on the hammer is at its full charge and stored that way.This allows the trigger of the 1911 to be light and have a short pull,this is the #1 reason I like the 45.A trigger that is that light and easy to pull is subject to all kinds of ruff conditions,that could possibly set it off,you must use a safty.If you bump your trigger pull up to say 7 pounds then you could probley do it a little safer.


Just practice with doing it the right way,dont allow yourself to renforce bad habbits.

I have never had a case wher I was waiting on my finger to hit the satfy,it beacomes part of the draw and you forget that you even do it.

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by ArmyCop
Isn't a glock with one in chamber equivalent to cocked and unlocked?



No.

[El_Ron1]

ArmyCop,
You're nice guy and I am not trying to insult you. I strongly suggest that you buy a substantial firearms liability insurance policy and locate some Kevlar underwear. Take care.
ER

[ArmyCop]

Originally posted by El_Ron1
ArmyCop,
You're nice guy and I am not trying to insult you. I strongly suggest that you buy a substantial firearms liability insurance policy and locate some Kevlar underwear. Take care.
ER

:) That's a good one.

I'm becoming more and more familiar with the 1911's and finding out I'm not alone or wasn't alone in lack of knowledge about them. I started a security job recently and am using my Colt Defender. I'm Cocked and Locked with it.
I've had some comments from a few people asking me if I realized my gun was cocked. I explained as you folks have also that it's designed to be that way and it has a couple safety devices built into the system keeping it safe.

I'm not insulted by any comments. I appreciate everyone's candor...

Thanks and God Bless...

[BillK@tcmhmrs.o]

You're hedging that no perp will ever successfully wrest your gun away from you.

If a perp grabs a gun and it is on safe, it will take some moments for them to figure out how to fire a gun ON SAFE. A gun in double action mode, a Glock with one in the tube and a 1911 that is cocked and unlocked will fire as soon as the perp points it at you and PULLS the trigger. You buy yourself a smidgen of time to go for a BUG or shag ass if they have to fiddle with a safety. It's all about choices - some's good, some's not, as Darwin would opine.

[One Ragged Hole]

I thought JB's personal 1911 had no safety. Didn't it get added at a later date to the 1911?
O-R-H

[Tangle]

Originally posted by One Ragged Hole
I thought JB's personal 1911 had no safety. Didn't it get added at a later date to the 1911?
O-R-H
I think you are thinking about the grip safety. The early models didn't have a grip safety. I'm not aware of any not having a thumb safety.

[auto45]

I believe there was an earlier model without a thumb safety also.

Those were different days. :)

[ArmyCop]

Originally posted by BillK@tcmhmrs.o
You're hedging that no perp will ever successfully wrest your gun away from you.

If a perp grabs a gun and it is on safe, it will take some moments for them to figure out how to fire a gun ON SAFE. A gun in double action mode, a Glock with one in the tube and a 1911 that is cocked and unlocked will fire as soon as the perp points it at you and PULLS the trigger. You buy yourself a smidgen of time to go for a BUG or shag ass if they have to fiddle with a safety. It's all about choices - some's good, some's not, as Darwin would opine.

Very good point..