IDPA stage irritation

[creekerdoug]

I was working a stage at Ft. Harmar as a safety officer. A new shooter (Uncle Mike's nylon holster, Ruger P something or other, velcro sealed mag holder) showed up to shoot. He told me he'd never shot a match before. I appreciated that. He was slow but safe and seemed to have a good time. He didn't score very well but what the hell, he was a new guy.

As I was scoring his targets, one of the most experienced shooters there, who was pasting targets, said the following: "Your being kind of easy on his scoring aren't you?" This was said in front of the new guy. As a matter of fact I was. If he was within an inch of the line he was getting the better score. This pissed me of on a couple of levels. The guy who made the comment is an expert class shooter who typically beats most of the masters at each match. There was no reason to make a new shooter feel like crap.

If this ass wanted to make this comment to me he shouldn't have done it it front a new shooter. I told the new guy to ignore that ass and have a good time. This kind of crap is a great way to keep a new shooter from coming back. Sorry for the rant. I feel much better now.

[9x45]

Yes, there are alot of sandbagger dicks who trash the newbies. And why would they do that? First, they have no interest in the business, ie, bringing everyone into the game. Second, why would they hang out in expert, when they really should go head to head with masters? Because they really can't go head to head with the masters, it's based on the stupid classifier system, we are talking IDPA. You can shoot the classifier 10 million times, and get to master, but turn in sucky times. It's all about self esteem...
The worst thing anyone can do is to turn off a new shooter, remember, everyone was new once!

[TimP]

sorry, but I agree with the expert shooters feelings, but not how/when he said it.

The scoring lines should be the same for everyone, new or old. I would have said something to you as well about it.

[Custom Glock Racing]

The rulebook is supposed to apply the same to everyone. New or not, you get the score you shoot.

[don't tread on me]

I don't see anything wrong w/ cuttin a guy or gal a break on their first match or two. My ego is not threatened by some lax rules for a new shooter who is just gettin started!;)

[HighVelocity]

It's attitudes like that (the expert shooter) that contibuted greatly to me getting out of IPSC.
When I was competing I honestly did not care if I won or lost, or if a new guy or gal was taking a lot of time to get through a course of fire. For me it was all about having fun and enjoying the company of fellow shooters.
Sounds like IDPA is the same song with different singers. What a shame. ;T

[Joe D]

I score them all the same, but tend to be a little more lax in giving out Procedurals for a first time shooter. We had a group of LEs shoot our IDPA match yesterday for the first time. Most of them finished at the bottom of the Marksman class. It would have served no purpose, except to have run them off, to nail them every time they did not use cover exactly right. They were told what they did wrong after each stage. They were also told where to find the rules. The next time they shoot with us they will be scored like everyone else.
One disturbing common thread was they all tended to shoot a lot of hostages.:)

[EX CATM]

I score them all the same, but tend to be a little more lax in giving out Procedurals for a first time shooter.

I agree with this 100%. The lines are pretty obvious. If I was the new shooter I would have been either insulted if I realized what you were doing or confused as hell about how the scoring worked.

[ducati]

I agree with giving the guy his true score. As far as the other guy is concerned he should pound sand.
The 2 clubs I shoot IDPA at go out of their way to accomadate new shooters. Don't have to wear cover garment. No proceduals.
The RO's do explain everthing that was done right, and wrong. It is a game.

[Jim Watson]

I score them all the same, period. I will explain to the new guy WHY he got the procedural, but he gets the procedural.
(Heck, I have to explain to the OLD guy why he got a procedural, we have a number of once a month shooters with poor memories, short attention spans, and little motivation to learn the rules.)

[byerly]

While I wouldn't have said anything to the SO or the shooter, when I'm SOing I treat them all the same. Your level of talent, experience and equipment is not my department. I don't yell at shooters anymore:) but they still get the points and procedurals they earned. Giving a guy a break does him a disservice as well as everyone else there. I agree that we shouldn't run off new shooters(I help run a match and every shooter looks like $20 to me) but if a guy can't deal with being told what he did wrong and feels like he's being picked on because I enforce the rules, then maybe he dosen't have the sand for this game or any other for that matter. They are men and I'm going to treat them that way. If you are shooting the GA state IDPA match, you can see me in action.

[oct_97]

"I don't yell at shooters anymore."???

I have never yelled at a shooter.

John

[Wulfenite]

I score them all the same, but new shooters get coaching, reminders, and tips that help them compete safely, have fun, and progress.

[MattO]

Self esteem is something that is earned, not received as a hand out. And getting dinged for something you did wrong is the best way to learn not to do it again. I clearly remember every PE I ever got marked on a score sheet. The ones I may have deserved but didn't get, I can't remember. New shooters need our help on improving their technique, so they can justly build their egos. If I see a guy struggling, I'll go out of my way to help him improve. But his score is his score.

[Duck of Death]

I score them all the same. For the new shooters there are many complements and helpful suggestions. I want them to have a good time and come back to shoot again.

If there are alot of new/inexperienced shooters I usually SO them 'cause I like to work with and help them.

[DaleGribble]

I don't agree with obvious score padding for new shooters.

But the other guy could have handled it better.

[Speedrock]

"The guy who made the comment is an expert class shooter who typically beats most of the masters at each match."

Rant what rant? IDPA is supposed to be about brininging new shooters to the sport. WE have the usual Self-Righteously Entitled "Experts" strutting & preening at our local Podunk Matches. All he's telling you is what a whinning sleazy comepitor he is. WHen I ran Matches guys like that were told to shut up or pack up. Anyone who belittled a newbie or was rude, mouthey or arrogant especially to an SO faced getting a FTDR or DQ for "Poor Sportsmanship". They can go have their own "pissing Matches" at a Sanctioned Match. Have seen a number of them get corn-holed there to for claiming on every Stage they "Get a Lot of Doubles" and want the MD to make the call.

[byerly]

I'm lucky enough to shoot every month at what I think is the best IDPA match in the country, The Range in Oxford, NC. Fantastic SOs, challenging courses of fire and a very deep field of shooters. Are there some egos there? Sure, and I'm one of them. However, behind all the yapping that goes on, there is an underlying current of respect. There, you only talk smack to your skill level or above. New shooters get all the tips they can stand. However, you get treated like an adult there, bar none. Some of the behavior that I've read about in this thread would not be tolerated at all. "Strutting and preening" is received with rolled eyes. In master class here you need some trophies on your mantle to open your mouth. I agree that it is important to add new shooters and the two monthly matches I attend have both added about 15 shooters apiece this year, so I think we are doing something right. My $0.02. YMMV, GB.

[Glock2234]

I'm lucky enough to shoot every month at what I think is the best IDPA match in the country

Byerly is right.

This year, I have shot Maryland, South Carolina, The Carolina Cup, and North Carolina. Last year I shot Virginia, which is coming up.

The matches at The Range are always challenging and sometimes just evil. The stages at the monthly matches prepare us for the majors. Everything is in good nature. I've told Frank a number of times that what he does twice a month, most places hope to do once a year. When Frank lays out a COF and says, "Handle it" you have what IDPA ought to be, all the time.

New shooters are helped. Experienced shooters are challenged.

The best part comes when a stage has multiple solutions depending on how good or how lucky you are feeling. Trying to beat movers, disappearing targets and drop turners to squeak a half a second out of the stage. Doubling a popper to make it go down faster and start the action.

See you Oct. 2 Gary.

[Jayman]

Got to agree, Frank does the best matches, period. I'm in Northern VA and I come down for his regular IDPAs when I can, despite the 4-5 hour drive. Nice people, great stages, and good all around attitudes.

Plus if you do well there, you can do well anywhere, because the competition is serious. I think some of those NC boys were born with a gun in their hands. Us poor VA kids have to catch up a little later in life!