1,100 rounds and my PM9 failed

[WOD]

Had you all worried didn't I? I have been shooting my PM9 with ZERO lubrication, cleaning or maintenance these past few months just to see how far I could push it and 5 days ago it started having consistant FTB's on every mag. This would put the little guy at about 1,1000 rounds before it failed. The cause was a bone dry gun. Surprisingly it was not very dirty. I mean much of the internal metal was not visible through the gumming, but there was not a huge build up of crud. The gun was dry enough to feel friction when racking the slide quickly. For this trial, I used gun scrubber and Tetra Grease.

Today I cleaned the gun with Gun Scrubber and lubed with 5W 50 Mobil 1 as recommended by Michigun. I ran through a 100ct box of WWB 115gr. FMJ, 100ct box of Rem. 115gr JHP, and a 50ct box of WWB 147gr JHP. The gun fed all 250 rounds without one failure.

This gun is not the magical zero-maintenance glock that is still going with zero hiccups after 170,000 rounds in mud, ocean water, etc.. but it has proven to be a perfect CCW for me. This PM9 has had over 3,700 rounds through it in six months and still looks new. No excessive wear anywhere. This gun rocks!:cool:

[cjblackmon]

I like that bit of field testing information that you did and appreciate the post. Makes one feel more confident in their choice of Concealed Weaponry. Yeah the Glock & HK tests are pretty impressive but hell, they have to be, they're bigger guns and they have contracts with police departments and military where failures are unacceptable (but sometimes happen). Our PM's have a very short action, and are made more for civilian comfort and carry in a nice package. The fact that you can put that pistol through the ringer like you did and it take the punishment...speaks volumes!!!

I'm wondering about the Mobil 1 motor oil. I wonder why we don't hear more people doing this. Michigun's comments on using it does bring a lot of valuable points to consider!!!


By the way...I wasn't scared a bit.

[hayseed_40]

Sounds like you have a winner there on your hands. Hey, even Glocks have their bad days...

[warmrain]

As a PM9 owner and one who carries it 24/7 (mostly), I really appreciate the test and the post.
Thanks,

[Michigun]

Originally posted by WOD
Had you all worried didn't I?

I'll be a man & admit that yeah, you did get me a little with the title. ;)

Originally posted by WOD
I have been shooting my PM9 with ZERO lubrication, cleaning or maintenance these past few months just to see how far I could push it and 5 days ago it started having consistant FTB's on every mag. This would put the little guy at about 1,1000 <------- may want to axe one of these zeros ;f rounds before it failed. The cause was a bone dry gun. Surprisingly it was not very dirty. I mean much of the internal metal was not visible through the gumming, but there was not a huge build up of crud. The gun was dry enough to feel friction when racking the slide quickly. For this trial, I used gun scrubber and Tetra Grease.

GREAT test, thanks for doing it & even more thanks for passing it on! ^c

Originally posted by WOD
Today I cleaned the gun with Gun Scrubber and lubed with 5W 50 Mobil 1 as recommended by Michigun. I ran through a 100ct box of WWB 115gr. FMJ, 100ct box of Rem. 115gr JHP, and a 50ct box of WWB 147gr JHP. The gun fed all 250 rounds without one failure.

I'm betting even after those 250 rounds that the Mobil-1 is still there too, isn’t it? ;) (One of the "pros" for Mobil-1!)

Originally posted by cjblackmon
I'm wondering about the Mobil 1 motor oil. I wonder why we don't hear more people doing this. Michigun's comments on using it does bring a lot of valuable points to consider!!!

It gets more & more popular each year (heck, I’ve seen whole threads on the use of Mobil-1 on a few different boards in the past)... I 1st heard about it 4 years ago myself... I've been using it sense then for ALL of my gun lubing needs. ^c

[warmrain]

Originally posted by WOD
...I cleaned the gun with Gun Scrubber and lubed with 5W 50 Mobil 1 as recommended by Michigun...
Is Gun Scrubber the Birchwood Casey (IIRC) degreaser/solvent? That's OK for polymer? I see that Shooter's Choice (IIRC) is making a "polymer safe" degreaser, however it causes a slight milkyness on the surface of my PM9's frame that is remedied the the immediate application of CLP...

[rcsc514]

WOD

Where did you find the Mobile One 5W 50 oil? I've checked everywhere in my town and no one including wal-mart carries it. The closest I can find is 5W 40. Can you give me a heads up on where to get it? Thanks

[warmrain]

Originally posted by rcsc514
WOD

Where did you find the Mobile One 5W 50 oil? I've checked everywhere in my town and no one including wal-mart carries it. The closest I can find is 5W 40. Can you give me a heads up on where to get it? Thanks
Won't be a difference between 5W 40 and 5W 50 AFAIK. It will behave like 5 weight until it gets to engine temperatures. Then (only then) does it start to behave like it is 40 or 50 weight. Those temperature won't be acheived in this application.

[hayseed_40]

You may need to send that to me for further testing. I'll even be generous and supply the ammo and targets.

[WOD]

My apologies for the erroneous names of the cleaning and lubing products used. I use them so often that I often attach my own names and specs to them. Down below are pictures of the cleaners and lubes I used.

The "Gun Scrubber" is actually "POWDER BLAST" from Break Free. You can distinguish it by its Citrusy Scent and ZERO residue drying.

The Mobil 1 Oil is indeed SAE 5W-40 - TRUCK & SUV Mind you, not some wussy Mini-Van and Soccermom formula;)

[WOD]

Good as new after 3,700+ rounds

[cjblackmon]

Originally posted by WOD
The Mobil 1 Oil is indeed SAE 5W-40 - TRUCK & SUV Mind you, not some wussy Mini-Van and Soccermom formula;)


So that's what I'm doing wrong! I'm using the mini van oil for my kahr...

DAMN IT!

[warmrain]

Originally posted by WOD
My apologies for the erroneous names of the cleaning and lubing products used. I use them so often that I often attach my own names and specs to them. Down below are pictures of the cleaners and lubes I used.

The "Gun Scrubber" is actually "POWDER BLAST" from Break Free. You can distinguish it by its Citrusy Scent and ZERO residue drying.

The Mobil 1 Oil is indeed SAE 5W-40 - TRUCK & SUV Mind you, not some wussy Mini-Van and Soccermom formula;)
Cool! :cool:
Thanks for the feedback on the cleaners! I'm a CLP fan but knew not of the Powder Blast.
Best,

[oldguy]

I have been shooting my PM9 with ZERO lubrication, cleaning or maintenance these past few months just to see how far I could push it

I am puzzled as to why anyone would do this, I can understand
why a manufacture would but for an owner?. It will shorten the life of the weapon while not noticable the damage is done.
Having said that it is yours to do with as you wish and just an
opinion from an oldguy who always cleans his firearms.
;)

[WOD]

Originally posted by oldguy
I am puzzled as to why anyone would do this, I can understand
why a manufacture would but for an owner?. It will shorten the life of the weapon while not noticable the damage is done.
Having said that it is yours to do with as you wish and just an
opinion from an oldguy who always cleans his firearms.
;)

Due to the amount of negative posts about the PM9's reliability, I decided to put my ghosts to rest. I wanted to prove a point to myself that this little gun with a big bite could hold up to adverse conditions. It was a pass fail evaluation, and in my books at 1,100 rounds before failure with no cleaning and lubing-I would find it difficult to believe that another gun of equal power and stature could match. As to the wear, this gun shows little wear whatsoever. A few shiny friction areas, but no gouging and scoring of barrel and frame like my first defective PM9.

After scrubbing and lubing the PM9 immediately digested 250 rounds of ammo with ZERO malfunctions and it seems smoother and more accurate than ever. In fact I am tempted to try this again with the Mobile 1 oil because I feel the gun could go twice as far with it:cool: My accuracy has improved greatly as I can now consistantly get 180 out of 200 hits on 5" steel plates at 15 yards winning many competitions against my Glock brethren.

Truth be told, I was not afraid of damaging the gun because Kahr has always taken care of my needs. This gun is an unmatchable winner in my book.

[rcsc514]

WOD & Warmrain, thanks for clearing up the mobile oil question. I have another question for WOD. I see in your picture that you also use Tetra Gun Grease along with mobile oil. I took it for granted that you used mobile oil to lube everything. Could you advise a novice like me as to what parts you use the grease on? Thanks.

[WOD]

Originally posted by rcsc514
WOD & Warmrain, thanks for clearing up the mobile oil question. I have another question for WOD. I see in your picture that you also use Tetra Gun Grease along with mobile oil. I took it for granted that you used mobile oil to lube everything. Could you advise a novice like me as to what parts you use the grease on? Thanks.

I pictured the Tetra Gun Grease to show what I used before switching to the Mobile 1. I agree with Michigun when he said that grease gets gummy in cold weather and can cause jams. The Tetra Gun Grease is white and thick at 72 degrees and it goes on kind of sticky and never seemed all that slick, but hey the packaging says its the next big thing next to sliced bread. In comparison the Mobil 1 is super slick and its consistency makes it very easy to apply in the hard to get areas of the slide. If this were an antiperspirant commercial I would say Tetra Gun Grease goes on dry whereas the Mobile 1 goes on wet and stays wet, even after 250 rounds.

I clean with the "Powder Blast" then put the Mobile 1 on EVERYTHING.

[rcsc514]

Thanks WOD

I just finished lubing with mobile 1 and am going to try it out tomorrow at the range. I have already noticed that when racking the slide, it seems to be smoother and not sluggish as before. Thanks for sharing, it is much appreciated.

[cjblackmon]

I wonder what Slick 50 would do with the teflon additive...

[NukeRJ]

Do not use any such engine additives on fire arms.
Slick 50 absorbs into the metal and will cuase a chalky white residue after some time, which is the teflon drying out. It was designed to be bathed in oil after each heat cycle as it would be in a cars engine. Stick with synthetic motor oils, militec grease or oils, graphite, or Royal Co. CLP or grease. Teflon additives give no advantage on guns that have been finished with coatings. Only on blued and blasted stainless anyhow.
Just my experience with weapons.
I know for a fact that we would leave our M2 50's bone dry until we had a mission and would then dump 30w on them before we rolled out. works like a charm all the time. Graphite was used in our M4's and militec was used in our M9's. CLP sucks for dusty conditions.
Try each one and see which youlike best. I prefer militec grease on my carry guns becuase it does not move from the lube points.

[cjblackmon]

Originally posted by NukeRJ
Do not use any such engine additives on fire arms.
Slick 50 absorbs into the metal and will cuase a chalky white residue after some time, which is the teflon drying out. Stick with synthetic motor oils, militec grease or oils, graphite, or Royal Co. CLP or grease. Teflon additives give no advantage on guns that have been finished with coatings. I know for a fact that we would leave our M2 50's bone dry until we had a mission and would then dump 30w on them before we rolled out. works like a charm all the time. Graphite was used in our M4's and militec was used in our M9's. CLP sucks for dusty conditions.


Thanks, it was only a thought for Slick 50 but I seriously like the logic you explained. I use Militec on my pistols. I got a free sample a couple of years ago and I still have a bit left. I was thinking of going to Corrosion X. It's a lot more slick than Militec and was from what I hear in testing. It was made for the folding wings of the F/A 18's on the flight decks of carriers (saltwater rusted and froze the hinges in place).

[NukeRJ]

Where can you get the Corrosion X stuff, haven't heard of it??

[cjblackmon]

Originally posted by NukeRJ
Where can you get the Corrosion X stuff, haven't heard of it??

One of the gunshops here in Tampa have it. Funny story about it too. Militec sales people have a demontration test to show gunshop owners why Militec is better than their gun oil. What the guy does is a load bearing test with a scale. He'll take a ball bearing clean it off with acetone and use thier leading gun oil to lube the bearing, then with the machine spinning he'll crank down on the lever until the ball bearing stops spinning and siezes up (usually at around 12 to 15 Lbs). Then he takes the same bearing cleans it off with acetone and does the same thing with Militec except the bearing siezes around 45-50 Lbs. That's their gimmick and how they sell orders to gunshops.

A few months back this Militec salesman called on the gunshop owner and wanted to run the demostration for him which he agreed. The salesman says let use your gun oil first. My friend said why don't we try your's first instead, I'd like to see what your's does. The salesman half heartedly said okay. Ran the test, bearing siezed at 45-50 Lbs. and the guy said pretty impressive isn't it? My friend says yeah it is. Then salesman says okay lets try your's. Now mind you my friend (the gunshop owner) sprayed the Corrosion X in a squirt bottle to hide the name. He starts to run the test cranks down on the bearing and nothing it's far exceeded the 50 Lbs limit, now this guy is really stoked. My friend get his 10 year old son to stand on the crank (he weighs around 85 Lbs) and it's still going, the boy starts bouncing on the crank and the bearing starts winding down and it's moving slow but still moving. I mean it was reading past the the saleman's scale which went up to about 90LBS. The salesman says what kind of oil is that and he says Corrosion X. The guy says "Oh...". The salesman was standing their just scratching his head in disbelief. I'm in sales too (financial services) and to have someone out do you in a demo sucks bad!!!!

Here is the site:

http://www.corrosionx.com/marine.html (http://www.corrosionx.com/marine.html)

Now my friend (the gunshop owner) he sells and uses the marine Corrosion X, they now make a Gun lubricant. I don't know the difference. I haven't read the site.

[silky]

I used CLP & Mobil 1 10W-30 to clean & lube my new MK9. Slathered the Mobil 1 on liberally. Repeated after 100 rounds. The pistol worked like a charm, but I got splattered with oil. Since then I've used the CLP only, applied less generously. Pistol still works fine, don't have to change my shirt. It's still two steps, clean & lube, but seems simpler to use just the one product...

[wyoguy]

With all of this talk about Mobil 1, I just might have to give it a try.

What lube procedures are you guys using on your PM9's? I like how Glock tells you in the manual - lube here, here, and here. No such recommendations that I could find in the Kahr documentation. Are you guys just layering it on everything? Or are you hitting particular areas, i.e. slide rails, etc.

Do you guys just use a q-tip or something to apply the Mobil 1?

Pardon the dumb questions...

[NukeRJ]

Thats a hilarious story Mon,
Stuff sounds like it rocks, Guess i'm gonna have to get some now LOL
I'll let you know how it runs.

[NukeRJ]

CJ,
checked out that website, they make that stuff for everything man, and its not expensive either, actually a bit cheaper than militec!!

[NukeRJ]

Dude, they even make a car wax!! with the same crap they use for boats planes and guns!!!

[silky]

wyoguy, check the sticky about "Lube Diagram"...I followed that plus a little extra because of the difference between the polymer gun guides and the steel. Yes, a Q-tip works great. For the Mobil 1 I filled a small plastic bottle which has a flip top that allows me to squeeze out one drop at a time.

[wyoguy]

I don't know how many times I have wandered into the Kahr Club and I never noticed that...

Thanks!