1911 vs Glock's .45

[TheDoubleGlock]

This must be the perfect place to start this conversation:

How do you (presumably one who approves of the 1911-style pistols that are chambered for the ol' .45 ACP) feel about GLOCK'S .45 caliber bullet?

[Jeff S.]

So you want people's opinion on .45ACP vs .45GAP?

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433213&highlight=GAP+ACP

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=401132&highlight=GAP+ACP

Here are my thoughts:

It seems that some people feel that the 45GAP is an answer to a nonexistent problem. Some think the 45GAP is the perfect solution for people who want .45ACP power, but have small hands.

The .45GAP can match the .45ACP in power, but can never beat it. I believe the GAP also has higher chamber pressures, but I'm not sure. *I think* the .45GAP creates a chamber pressure that is equal to .45ACP +p.

Personally, I have no need for a .45GAP pistol and I'll probably never own one. I like my 1911's grip just the way it is; I'd have problems if it were any narrower.

Only time will tell if the .45GAP will be successful. Success begets more success. The more success the .45GAP experiences the cheaper the ammo will become (especially if the police adopt it). If the round becomes cheaper and more available, then more people are likely to buy it.

Lastly, some say that pistols chambered for .45GAP are selling fast, while others are saying they're just sitting on shelves. Likewise, some swear by the cartridge while others mock it.

[Rob96]

Being that it operates at 45acp+p pressure, I wonder what the risks of bullet setback would have. I know many people say the kb stories of the 40S&W are small, but it does happen. For that matter I know all calibers can suffer it, but it seems more prevelant in the rounds that are pushing the envelope.

For me, I'll stick with 45acp, standard pressure. It has all it needs to do the job.

[aglocker1911]

Personally, I like the GAP. There is of course no use for it in a 1911 platform, but in a Glock it is a good idea, IMO. You can get 45acp ballistica (or very very close) in a smaller frame sized Glock. Although I can handle a Glock 21 just fine, I am much more comfortable with the smaller Glocks due to carpal syndrome in my hands. With the GAP, I can have "the best of both worlds" when it come to a Glock.

BTW, although the GAP is not for everybody, many of those who "attack" it have never even shot one. Will it ever replace (or even equal) ACP? Of course not. But it does serve the ourpose for which it was intended. You can get alot more good info in the Bull Dawgs section of this forum. Good luck.

[engineer151515]

Nonexistant problem? Maybe. I see nothing wrong with getting the air out of the 45ACP cartridge.

Equal performance. Yes. Not built to exceed. 23000 psi vs acp 21000 psi is roughly +P but most people I know do not shoot +p 45acp. Pressure is way below .40 cal and .357 sig.

Thin grip arguement is really relative to a G-21. Grips on a 1911 are already "thin".

GAP brass is a reloader's dream with thicker walls and small primers.

The G37 which fires 45GAP is the closest pistol Glock makes to the firepower and feel of a 5" 1911. Plus it holds 10 rounds v/s the 1911 7 or 8 rounds (without magazine extension). Accurate. Won't rust (wish I could say that about some Kimbers). Great gun.

Like aglocker1911 says, most critics have never even fired one.

[toolman_556]

Most folks who shoot the 1911 and its many offshoots( at least those I know) fall into several basic categories
1. they shoot a 1911 becuase they shoot that design best
2. they shoot a 1911 because they have an aversion to polymer frames
3. they shoot a 1911 becuase there is no ballistic advantage to the gap over the acp and they have an ACP( how many 1911's in various forms have been manufactured over the years?)

The Glocks are a reputable design with a lot of rounds through them. The test of time is still a variable. How many polymer pistols will ever see the 100th birthday? How many that do will be safe to shoot? There is no real reason to chamber the 45GAP in a 1911 unless supply of ammo dictates it. The GAP is basically ballistically equal to the ACP, so mag capacity is the only reason. Its possible if someone made a steel frame pistol using a Glock 45GAP mag and had the feel and lines of a 1911 you'd have a real winner.

[federali]

As it is the same caliber as the .45 ACP, the GAP will not allow for increased capacity. Yes, the theory behind the round is quite sound: .45 ACP ballistics in a smaller package. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with the concept. It's just whether or not the market can sustain so many viable defensive rounds. I think that if some high profile law enforcement agencies pick up the GAP, the round will be here to stay. Ballistics history is full of rounds that failed, mainly because they were ahead of their time.

But then, imagine a 1911 chambered in .45 GAP. While the thinkness would remain the same, the front to back measurement would be reduced. All in all, the modest size reduction would make for a sweet looking and carrying 1911 that will hurt the bad guy just as badly as the .45 ACP

[hatidua]

Originally posted by TheDoubleGlock
This must be the perfect place to start this conversation:

How do you (presumably one who approves of the 1911-style pistols that are chambered for the ol' .45 ACP) feel about GLOCK'S .45 caliber bullet?

Completely indifferent.

[Rob1035]

I'm curious to see if the shorter cartridge will alleviate the supposed reliability problems with subcompact 1911s. If that's the case, I think it'll catch on, as I'd buy one:cool:

[mrb302]

If I'm not mistaken, Springfield Armory has already released a small/carry 1911 chambered in GAP. It seems like it was in the American Rifleman mag, but I can't find it on their website. I'll have to look for that issue...

[aglocker1911]

Actually, both Springfield and Para have announced they are planning to make a smaller 1911 in 45GAP, but neither has released a production date yet. Hopefully, they will be more reliable than the small 45ACP 1911s have proven to be or it will just be more fuel for the "anti GAP" crowd. I still say the GAP is best suited to getting 45acp performance into a reasonable size double stack pistol like the Glock. How about a 10 round Sig 226 in gap, or even a Beretta 92/96 in Gap?

[Rob1035]

rohrbaugh in GAP?

;z

[litework]

If HK offers their P2000 in .45 GAP, I'm game.

[philipk]

My two cents on the .45 GAP.

It meets a need for a .45 in a smaller frame.

Ballisticly it is proven to match the .45 ACP.

There is a decent availability of good ammo.

To me there is only one draw back and that is the issue –

Is it the caliber of the month?

The .357 SIG appears to have been the flavor of the month. But is truly was a solution in search of a problem. Very few people wanted a 9mm with more velocity. Most people have been asking for a large caliber to be a better man stopper.

So sales of the .357 SIG has been slow. However, those that bought into the caliber still have guns that work and a ready source of ammo. So even though it is a niche product, the gun owners still got the money’s worth. Tomorrow if all the manufactures stop selling the .357 SIG, the guns will still work!

Back to the .45 GAP. It is still not proven to be a big success in terms of sales. I think it has a better change than the .357 SIG because of the larger caliber bullet on a smaller frame gun. Though I carry a .40 S&W, I am a big believer in .44 or .45 caliber handguns for self defense.

I plan to purchase the G38 and maybe later, the G39. I have little to lose. If it is a niche caliber it will be around long enough for me to get my moneys worth. In the mean time, I have a man stopping caliber in an easy to pack handgun.

[quantico]

Originally posted by philipk

Is it the caliber of the month?

The .357 SIG appears to have been the flavor of the month. But is truly was a solution in search of a problem. Very few people wanted a 9mm with more velocity. Most people have been asking for a large caliber to be a better man stopper.

So sales of the .357 SIG has been slow. However, those that bought into the caliber still have guns that work and a ready source of ammo. So even though it is a niche product, the gun owners still got the money’s worth. Tomorrow if all the manufactures stop selling the .357 SIG, the guns will still work!

Back to the .45 GAP. It is still not proven to be a big success in terms of sales. I think it has a better change than the .357 SIG because of the larger caliber bullet on a smaller frame gun. Though I carry a .40 S&W, I am a big believer in .44 or .45 caliber handguns for self defense.


the 357 sig gives me power comparable to 45 acp in a smaller framed gun... suitable for ccw in the summer... 357 sig offers more power than 9mm+P ammo...

You shoot the .40 . What advantage is there in the 40 over the 10mm ??? little except possible over-penetration and recoil.

I have no use for the 45gap... I also have nothing againist it except for not being able to interchange ammo with the many 45acp pistols that I currently own..

I don't think that a 45 gap pistol with a 3.5 inch barrel can be much shorter than a 45acp pistol with a 3.5 inch barrel... ??? the grip area is allready not very long.... with a short trigger and a flat backstrap and thin grips the 1911 in 45acp works great for women with small hands.... are we trying to fit 7 year old kids to guns??

The glock 21 is a huge grip gun... bigger than my HK usp -45. That gun still fits most people that try it.... I don't see the need.

[nanookalexkaye]

Those of you folks with tiny little hands now have a chance to lob a 45 slug...good deal, a victory for the minority! My hands however, wrap nicely around my 45 Kimber (pistol-whipping the BG may be more realistic a scenario than a follow up shot, at least with a series II Kimber)So does it really matter for me?

I think the Springfield Micro 45 GAP looks promising.

[Jeff S.]

Originally posted by quantico
I don't think that a 45 gap pistol with a 3.5 inch barrel can be much shorter than a 45acp pistol with a 3.5 inch barrel... ??? the grip area is allready not very long.... with a short trigger and a flat backstrap and thin grips the 1911 in 45acp works great for women with small hands.... are we trying to fit 7 year old kids to guns??


I believe you hit the nail on the head. As Engineer151515 stated: "Thin grip argument is really relative to a G-21. Grips on a 1911 are already 'thin'."


1911's are very customizable weapons; they can be had with thin/regular grips, short/long/medium triggers, flat/curved/rounded MSH's and so on.

Me, I like a 1911 with a regular (long) trigger and a flat MSH. I'm good with either thin or regular grips. I was going to opt for thin grips to accomplish my carry 1911, but I've come to decide that regular grips fill my hand better.

[TheDoubleGlock]

Several comments have been made concerning the relatively smaller size of the GAP to the ACP (some mention this as a plus as a smaller gun would be "sweet looking," and others have inquired about that very thing... a subcompact and when will some manufacturers put some out).

It seems fitting to me to mention a friend of mine and his Colt Defender (a really small 1911-style pistol).

He bought the thing NIB & came over with his arsenal and we went out back (with my arsenal as well) to do some good ol' plinkin'. Bottom line... I didn't want to shoot it. It was brand new, shiny, and everything else... but jammed on him multiple times. He doesn't buy cheap bullets. The mags were Colt. There was really no reason we could think of as to why it jammed. Maybe a GAP would be better.;a

[paul45]

I said on your other thread, it would be interesting to know if the Defender was cleaned and lubed enough. Also, I think a new 1911 might be allowed to have a couple hiccups as it "breaks in". If it were mine, I would grease the rails and use Mobil 1 elsewhere, and as an over-luber.....run it wet! I hope he has good luck.

[philipk]

Originally posted by paul45
it would be interesting to know if the Defender was cleaned and lubed enough.

I love my 1911s but paul45 is right about the need for proper cleaning and lubing.

As I said in another thread, this is a big plus for the Glock. They seem to work flawlessly even when abused by poor cleaning and no lube.

Again good luck.