I need a BUG

[Doobaru]

My carry weapon is a G36 and I am in the market for a BUG. The size of the Kahr is perfect, and the capacity does not concern me. I rented a PM9 from the range and put 100 rounds thru it. I had 2 FTF and the mag fell out of the well 3 times. I am concerned with the reliability of this piece since it is so small. The MK9 sounds like it would be too heavy, and I have ruled out the G26 for now. It seems like it is an event when someone puts 2-3 hundred rounds thru their PM9 without at least 3 failures. The problem is I still cannot get over the size as it is the best I have felt. Any suggestions?

[goblue]

A lot of people find the PM9 very reliable. I would not judge by a rental gun- who knows when it was last cleaned/lubed. I have a very well running PM, but I never ran 300 rounds though in one session. A SW 340pd might be the way to go as it is likeley more reliable.

[BikerRN]

A rental gun is the worst way to judge a guns reliability, IMHO.

I have a Kahr PM9 and once it went through it's 200 round break-in, has never failed to go BANG whenever I pull the curved hook thingie. I keep it well oiled/lubed and shoot about 50 rounds/Month through it. Take care and happy shooting.

[Doobaru]

It just seems that finding a cherry PM9 that hasn't been handled a lot by different people (ie. prospective buyers) for sale at the local shops is difficult. Every time I go window shopping I always cringe when some guy looking at a piece slams the slide when he racks it.
;b


I have no doubt that I will purchase one when my budget situation warrants it. But I think a special order is probably the way I will do it, even though I am not the most patient person in the world. Thanks for your input.

[Glock36digger]

Why don't you try calling up Kahr and telling them what you told us here? I bet they would be willing to hand pick a gun off the line and test it for you before shipping to the dealer of your choice.
That way you get a gun that has been at least minimally tested for failures and possibly adjusted and tightened up for you, you'll also get a weapon that nobody has messed with and abused at the dealer.
Just a thought. Thier customer service is pretty good so I bet they would not have a problem doing this.

[Doobaru]

I didn't know that a company would do that. I know that Kahr's are more of a cult following, but I did not know they would actually take a brand spankin new PM9, test it at their facility, and then send it to me at my local range. I am a young shooter, so also a little naive. All the info has been great help.

[warmrain]

Originally posted by Glock36digger
Why don't you try calling up Kahr and telling them what you told us here? I bet they would be willing to hand pick a gun off the line and test it for you before shipping to the dealer of your choice.
That way you get a gun that has been at least minimally tested for failures and possibly adjusted and tightened up for you, you'll also get a weapon that nobody has messed with and abused at the dealer.
Just a thought. Thier customer service is pretty good so I bet they would not have a problem doing this.
That's a nice thought, you'd think they might do that... When they sent me a replacement for the PM40 that would not feed at all off the top of a magazine - 5 returns in all with out producing a functioning gun... They sent a PM9 (at my request) that was the poorest in fit and finish I've seen - it functions though, so I'm loathe to send it back. You would have thought they might have looked at it... Picked one that did not have a slide cut by a tool dull enough to gall the stainless. You'd think they might have looked at it and seen that the barrel crown was also cut by a dull tool and was galled.

Imagine that the front sight dove tail is cut so shallow (that the sight sits so high) that you can get a credit card to slide under it.

NO, don't special order the pistol and buy it without a thorough inspection. Allow yourself an out. I've been there before; special ordered and purchased thinking that since no one has handled the pistol there would be no problems. Wrong, you need to be carefull of the specific example that you are purchsasing.

Field strip it and inspect every visible part. Get a bore light down it, etc.

Best,

[ericboo]

I bought mine about 2 months ago. I have over 300 rounds through it after a 200+ round session yesterday.

It never failed to fire but failed to feed at the beginning of each of the range sessions, but I believe that was due to me not racking the slide right because the gun is physically smaller than my Sig, which I am used to.

I was worried just like you but the size had me sold, and a couple more happy range trips, and I will carry it every day instead of leaving my heavy Sig at home.

[Doobaru]

I was talking to the guy at the local shop and he carries S&W 340SC as a BUG. While the weight was impressive, the width of the cylinder was a little thick. I never really considered a revolver since I have grown up in the age of autos, but just by using common sense a revolver would be an extremely reliable BUG.

The price tag was a little hefty but so is the Kahrs. Is the 340SC .357 mag a better choice?. BTW the guy at the store carried in the small of the back.

[warmrain]

Originally posted by Doobaru
I was talking to the guy at the local shop and he carries S&W 340SC as a BUG. While the weight was impressive, the width of the cylinder was a little thick. I never really considered a revolver since I have grown up in the age of autos, but just by using common sense a revolver would be an extremely reliable BUG.

The price tag was a little hefty but so is the Kahrs. Is the 340SC .357 mag a better choice?. BTW the guy at the store carried in the small of the back.
I've pocket carried a NAA 32 ACP, MK9, PM9 and S&W 342PD (10.8 oz. empty, the 38 spl. version of the 340).

By far the easiest in terms of weight is the 342PD. Yes it is thicker but I find that double or triple pleated dress slacks of khakies (e.g. Dockers) keeps it from printing if in a proper holster.

Very close to that is the PM9. It is 3 oz. heavier (I swear you feel every ounce when its in you pocket) but the thinner profile makes it conceal a little better.

IMHO carrying in the SOB (small of the back) is a good way to end up a criple. In a scuffle, if you were to fall on your spine I suspect you'd lose the fight for ever.

Better to keep the BUG in the pants pocket or the ankle (the latter is a great place for the ultra lite weight snubbie).

Best,

[forestdesert]

warmrain brings up an interesting point on carry weight often feeling like a ton in the pocket or IWB. That difference in the PM9 and 340SC is more than 3 ounces when one adds in the 1.9 ounce PM9 magazine. Then to be really fair, we have to weigh 5 rounds of .357 and compare to 7 rounds of 9mm Luger. Without getting out the ammo and scale, I'd say the 340SC is still over 4 ounces lighter totally ready to carry. But the thickness of the cylinder is a bit harder to hide on a scrawny body.

Dobaru's comment about a revolver being a reliable BUG has me thinking again too even though my PM9 thus far appears to be one of the reliable ones after the barrel recall and plenty of break-in. My usual drill is to set up a target at the range, pull out the PM9 as carried, and fire away without changing magazines or messing with it at all. Builds confidence that it works as carried before playing with the target ammo. Now I can just worry about when to replace the magazine spring, when to replace the recoil springs, and other such joys of semi-auto pistols.

One complaint many offer about the j-frame snubbies is that they are no pleasure to shoot, especially in .357 mag. But hey, neither of these are intended to be plinking/target/range guns. Doobaru is asking all the right questions, and I'm learning from all of your good responses. Thanks.

[warmrain]

Originally posted by forestdesert
warmrain brings up an interesting point on carry weight often feeling like a ton in the pocket or IWB. That difference in the PM9 and 340SC is more than 3 ounces when one adds in the 1.9 ounce PM9 magazine. Then to be really fair, we have to weigh 5 rounds of .357 and compare to 7 rounds of 9mm Luger. Without getting out the ammo and scale, I'd say the 340SC is still over 4 ounces lighter totally ready to carry. But the thickness of the cylinder is a bit harder to hide on a scrawny body.
Good points. I have only the advertised specs. Even then I forgot the obvious magazine, not to mention rounds. No wonder the 342PD feels so much lighter than the PM9.

Dobaru's comment about a revolver being a reliable BUG has me thinking again too even though my PM9 thus far appears to be one of the reliable ones after the barrel recall and plenty of break-in. My usual drill is to set up a target at the range, pull out the PM9 as carried, and fire away without changing magazines or messing with it at all. Builds confidence that it works as carried before playing with the target ammo. Now I can just worry about when to replace the magazine spring, when to replace the recoil springs, and other such joys of semi-auto pistols.
That sounds like a good drill and I think I'll start using it, BTW, I talked to Dottie years ago about my concern of carrying a magazine loaded 24/7 for years. She said it's not an issue with the Kahr magazines. I have to say that I recently took out a magazine that's been loaded since 1999 and compared the spring to a magazine just purchased in May and there is no difference in length (if that means anything). In any case the older magazine has never failed, either in the MK9 or new PM9.

One complaint many offer about the j-frame snubbies is that they are no pleasure to shoot, especially in .357 mag. But hey, neither of these are intended to be plinking/target/range guns. Doobaru is asking all the right questions, and I'm learning from all of your good responses. Thanks.
My wife's 342PD is a .38 spl., that's the difference between the 342 and 340 (the 342 is aluminum and titanium while the 340 uses scandium in place of aluminum).

It is good to share ideas and learn from doing so. It's what makes the forum so valuable.

Best,

[BikerRN]

I have been carrying some sort of handgun for 20+ years and use a PM9 as a BUG.

I used to carry a S&W 640 in .357, now I carry a 9mm. That should tell you something. I grew up in the revolver age, then went to 1911's. Now it's Glock with a Kahr for back-up. I find the recoil of the .357 snubbies to be prohibitive to accurate fast shooting. I hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44.

Try the .357 snub and then shoot the PM9. I think you will agree that you can shoot more accurately with the 9mm and get more rounds downrange in the amount of time it takes you to fire a cylinder of "wrist breaking, firebreathing, monster killing magnumosity."

I sold my last snubbie months ago, and while wheelguns don't usually jam I have jammed more than one over the years. My 640 was prone to locking up when fired with my carry ammo. Maybe that's because I shoot "Hot" ammo? That's just something else to keep in mind when you are considering a wheelgun. I shoot at least 50 rounds a month through each carry gun I have to maintain proficiency. You should do no less. If you carry it you should shoot it.

The 640 was a chore to keep on target at 25 yards, no issues with the PM9. Good luck.

[warmrain]

BikerRN,

Good thoughts, and having been there too, I agree. My wife carries her 342PD with Winchester Silvertip 95 gr. or HydraShok 110 gr. (both 38). She also has a 640 and uses the same.

Having spent considerable time with both of those and with an MK9 and PM9 I agree that the small Kahrs can be shot more accurately and without pain (which the 342 gives you).

Best,

[NailShooter]

"NO, don't special order the pistol and buy it without a thorough inspection. Allow yourself an out. I've been there before; special ordered and purchased thinking that since no one has handled the pistol there would be no problems. Wrong, you need to be carefull of the specific example that you are purchsasing.

Field strip it and inspect every visible part. Get a bore light down it, etc." warmrain



He speaks the truth! I would never buy a NEW or used gun that I had not inspected first.

How do you intend to carry this BUG?ż (You're going to carry it in addition to your 36, right?) Might make a difference on what one would recommend.