Want another sports car, narrowed it down to three [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ron3
10-17-2005, 09:52
I drive a sports car now but I'm an anonomous kinda guy so I won't say what it is.

What I'm thinking about getting is either:

03 Mustang Cobra (@$28,000 w/@15,000 miles)

02-03 Corvette Z06 (@$30,000 w/@15,000 miles)

Or save up a while for a used '05-'06 Corvette with Z51 option. (@$40,000 in a year or so with @15,000 miles) The '06 Z06 just costs too much.

I will treat this car like I do my current one. Daily driver and plan two to three open track events a year.

Tough choice. The Cobra is more affordable, easier to work on, cheaper to mod if I choose too. The Z51 is great, and will do as well as a new non-z06 C6 daily driving and on the track.

But that new C6 is just a gorgeous car! I'd have to wait another year or so before I could get one of those.

Thoughts?

Oh, they'd all be 6-speeds of course!

Ron3

Ron3
10-17-2005, 09:57
I wonder which would have the cheapest insurance, too.

Ron3

fnfalman
10-17-2005, 10:12
It's just me and my personal bias but there is no way in hell I'm going to bother with the Mustang as a track car. It wasn't meant to be a corner cutter and the Ford boys can do all of the suspension mods they want, it will never be a corner cutter like the 'Vette.

I'd go with the slightly older Z06. 405-hp and killer suspension. What else da ya need?:)

Rob1035
10-17-2005, 12:22
Originally posted by fnfalman


I'd go with the slightly older Z06. 405-hp and killer suspension. What else da ya need?:)


Ditto!
http://www.movieactors.com/freezeframes5/BlazeSaddle133.jpeg

OUSooner
10-17-2005, 12:32
If you don't need a back seat then get the vette. The Cobra is also has a supercharger which is just something else to go wrong. The vette will also holds it's resale value a little better. Besides, the vette gets em wett!

Ron3
10-17-2005, 12:59
I've driven a few '03 Cobra's.

They do handle well, IRS, 13-inch brakes.

The blower sounds awesome, and the car itself looks good.

What do you guys think of the C5 Z06 vs C6?

Ron3

epsylum
10-17-2005, 18:07
Originally posted by OUSooner
The vette will also holds it's resale value a little better.

Then why does the vette cost almost as much as the cobra, but was almost twice as much new.

It's american and not made in the 60's or 70's therefore it holds it's value like a Yugo.

Ron3
10-17-2005, 20:35
"Then why does the vette cost almost as much as the cobra, but was almost twice as much new."

Good point!

Ron3

Rob1035
10-17-2005, 21:02
Originally posted by Ron3


What do you guys think of the C5 Z06 vs C6?

Ron3

You mean a C5 Z06 versus a regular C6?

I dunno, I can only comment on what I've read, but either would be fun, but the C5 Z06 might be a little bit better on the track, while the C6 might be a better daily driver with more refinement, etc. FWIW, I think the C6 looks a dozen times better than the C5

epsylum
10-17-2005, 21:24
Originally posted by Rob1035
You mean a C5 Z06 versus a regular C6?

I dunno, I can only comment on what I've read, but either would be fun, but the C5 Z06 might be a little bit better on the track, while the C6 might be a better daily driver with more refinement, etc. FWIW, I think the C6 looks a dozen times better than the C5

I agree with the looks thing on the C6, execpt for the new grill. I hate that new grille. It looks like it's smiling at you. Well, that and those golf club shaped mirrors they like to put on all the newer vettes.

Everywhere else on the car looks much better, especially the rear.

Rob1035
10-17-2005, 21:36
the rear is the biggest improvement IMHO, it makes the whole car look more compact, which I like.

Asha'man
10-17-2005, 21:52
Cobra, hands down. But I'm biased. :)

Brian

Clem Eastwood
10-18-2005, 16:57
Originally posted by fnfalman
It's just me and my personal bias but there is no way in hell I'm going to bother with the Mustang as a track car. It wasn't meant to be a corner cutter and the Ford boys can do all of the suspension mods they want, it will never be a corner cutter like the 'Vette.

I'd go with the slightly older Z06. 405-hp and killer suspension. What else da ya need?:)

yep

bac1023
10-19-2005, 21:07
Expensive, yes, but the new Z06 is a world beater. Its also, I believe, the fastest mass produced American car. Its faster than the new Viper and Ford GT.

Ron3
10-20-2005, 15:41
Originally posted by Rob1035
You mean a C5 Z06 versus a regular C6?


Yea. The new C6 does look alot better than the C5's, but you can't get into a used C6 for under $40,000. Too much.

The C6 Z06 is far, far too much $. But for those who have $70,000, the new Z06 is a good value.

The Cobra or Z06 I could do now, but a (non-Z06) C6 with Z51 suspension would have to wait a year or so.

The Cobra might be a better daily driver, but the C5 Z06 would certainly be better at the track.

Ron3

Rob1035
10-20-2005, 19:03
I'd probably do the C5 Z06, and head to the track.

kawalerzysta
10-20-2005, 19:28
Originally posted by Ron3
Yea. The new C6 does look alot better than the C5's, but you can't get into a used C6 for under $40,000. Too much.

The C6 Z06 is far, far too much $. But for those who have $70,000, the new Z06 is a good value.

The Cobra or Z06 I could do now, but a (non-Z06) C6 with Z51 suspension would have to wait a year or so.

The Cobra might be a better daily driver, but the C5 Z06 would certainly be better at the track.

Ron3
Actually I would say that it is pretty cheap. Compare it exotics and what it can do.

Rob1035
10-20-2005, 20:36
yup, I dont think anything under 100k (other than kit type cars) touches the new Z06.

epsylum
10-20-2005, 21:14
I'm a Ford man, if it has to be American, but I will admit that new Z06 is BAD. That's about the only GM I would consider buying.

I just hope the spirit of competition is alive and well at Ford. I want to see an even faster GT (as in the Ford GT, not mustang), for less moeny to compete with the Z06. The power part would be easy (crank up the boost), but it whould have even better suspension and brakes.

Now all that beign said there is a reason for the GT costing as much as it does. It's actually a hand-built car. But the Z06 has raised the bar another notch and Ford needs to see if they can top it.

You can dislike other brands, but in the end competition is a good thing.

coreseller
10-21-2005, 02:47
Cobras handle surprisingly well (just had mine to a road track event for the first time over the summer) and would suffice for most drivers. I've also driven the ZO6 (C5), it is plain faster, corners and stops better than the Cobra but you lose some day to day versatility (rear seat, trunk, rougher ride). Make sure you check out the insurance rates before you buy, for me the Cobra was almost exactly double the rates for a Boxster or plain Vette, probably because alot of them get wadded up by younger drivers. http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/7070000-707999/707478_2.jpg

bac1023
10-21-2005, 08:32
Originally posted by Rob1035
yup, I dont think anything under 100k (other than kit type cars) touches the new Z06.
Yea, many cars over 100K can't touch it either.

glock[19]
10-21-2005, 21:05
Since I own a 2002 ZO6, I don't see how you can go wrong with one. I don't consider the Mustang Cobra a sports car. Sport cars only have 2 seats. As for the C6, I haven't seen one yet that will keep up with the "Z". The wacked off tail end of the C6 looks ridiculous. For pure performance on and off the track, you can not beat the "Z". Should be able to get a nice "Z" for $33,000. For some unknown reason the insurance is reasonable on the "Z". I'm sure the new C6 ZO6 will be a "BEAST".

BuckyP
10-22-2005, 07:48
I had a 99 Cobra and after 6 months traded it in on an SS Camaro. There were 3 reasons I did this, though the '03 I think fixed 2 out of 3 of them. My Cobra had no bottom end torque. One would assume the super charger fixed this. Also, the T-45 5 speed transmission was the notchiest piece of garbage, even with an after market shifter. I believe the '03 has the T-56 6 speed (which the Camaro already had). Finally, the car felt loose, tinny like. The Camaro felt more solid.

My $.02.

coreseller
10-22-2005, 08:41
Originally posted by glock[19]
Since I own a 2002 ZO6, I don't see how you can go wrong with one. I don't consider the Mustang Cobra a sports car. Sport cars only have 2 seats. As for the C6, I haven't seen one yet that will keep up with the "Z". The wacked off tail end of the C6 looks ridiculous. For pure performance on and off the track, you can not beat the "Z". Should be able to get a nice "Z" for $33,000. For some unknown reason the insurance is reasonable on the "Z". I'm sure the new C6 ZO6 will be a "BEAST".

I agree with you on most points, the ZO6 is a beast, it is cheaper to insure (my insurance man has one) and it is better on the track. Keep in mind the original post listed the Mustang as a potential choice. Also, the ZO6 and Cobra really aren't in the same category and shouldn't be compared side to side as if meant to be equals. The ZO6 stickered about $50k in '02, the '01 Cobra was $30k or a bit less,'03 Cobras were a bit over $30k. The ZO6 was designed at the outset to be a Kick*ss street legal track car based on an up to date state of the art C5 platform (hydraformed frame rails, epoxied balsa pan, etc.) whereas the Mustang Cobra is a hopped up "secretary's car" based on the flimsy Fox platform (can you say Ford Futura?) from the 70's, I find it amazing that it performs as well as it does. BuckyP is also right about the torque issue, but on the other end of the spectrum are the high revving charachteristics of a 4 valve motor which the Cobra has. If you can keep the rev's between 4500 and 7000 when running it there's no describing it (the Cobra's aluminum Teksid blocks were cast in Italy at the same facility where Ferarri's are until '01). I admire anyone who's chosing between the three, I gotta admit all else being equal, I'd chose the ZO6 myself.

My.01c

Ron3
10-22-2005, 17:24
I'm enjoying reading the responses!

The '99 and '01 Cobra's had a naturally aspirated engine and made about 320hp with little torque in the low and mid rpms. The '03/'04's are supercharged and make about 425hp and lots more torque all around. There was no '02 Cobra sold in the US. The '99 Cobras were subject to a dealer-installed upgrade because they did not make advertised power. I believe this was the first (only?) time a car maker did this. The upgrade was a PCM reprogram, better exaust system, and I think thats it but I don't recall. It added about 20hp to bring it up to advertised power.

I have a book that says the strong Teskid blocks were installed in the '96-'98 Cobra's.

The Cobra has the T-56 with 3.55 drive gears.


Glock[19] said, "Since I own a 2002 ZO6, I don't see how you can go wrong with one. I don't consider the Mustang Cobra a sports car. Sport cars only have 2 seats. As for the C6, I haven't seen one yet that will keep up with the "Z". The wacked off tail end of the C6 looks ridiculous."

I think the C6 looks better then the C5. The '03/'04 Cobra not a sports car? I t comes with 425hp, two doors, 4 275mm wide tires, 13-inch Brembo brakes and the only trans availible is a 6-speed manual. I think that makes it a sports car! Those rear seats aren't very usefull anyway. Call it a 2+2? :cool:

I'm glad to hear about the insurance on the 'vette. I thought it would be higher than the Z. I'll have to call and find out.

Depreciation is a concern. I think the Z and the Cobra would not depreciate as fast as the C6 because because the Z and Cobra are special editions of a base model. Then again the C6 is the latest body style and many people like it. Perhaps depreciation would be similar for all three.

Ron3

coreseller
10-22-2005, 18:15
Originally posted by Ron3
I'm enjoying reading the responses!

The '99 and '01 Cobra's had a naturally aspirated engine and made about 320hp with little torque in the low and mid rpms. The '03/'04's are supercharged and make about 425hp and lots more torque all around. There was no '02 Cobra sold in the US. The '99 Cobras were subject to a dealer-installed upgrade because they did not make advertised power. I believe this was the first (only?) time a car maker did this. The upgrade was a PCM reprogram, better exaust system, and I think thats it but I don't recall. It added about 20hp to bring it up to advertised power.

I have a book that says the strong Teskid blocks were installed in the '96-'98 Cobra's.

The Cobra has the T-56 with 3.55 drive gears.


Glock[19] said, "Since I own a 2002 ZO6, I don't see how you can go wrong with one. I don't consider the Mustang Cobra a sports car. Sport cars only have 2 seats. As for the C6, I haven't seen one yet that will keep up with the "Z". The wacked off tail end of the C6 looks ridiculous."

I think the C6 looks better then the C5. The '03/'04 Cobra not a sports car? I t comes with 425hp, two doors, 4 275mm wide tires, 13-inch Brembo brakes and the only trans availible is a 6-speed manual. I think that makes it a sports car! Those rear seats aren't very usefull anyway. Call it a 2+2? :cool:

I'm glad to hear about the insurance on the 'vette. I thought it would be higher than the Z. I'll have to call and find out.

Depreciation is a concern. I think the Z and the Cobra would not depreciate as fast as the C6 because because the Z and Cobra are special editions of a base model. Then again the C6 is the latest body style and many people like it. Perhaps depreciation would be similar for all three.

Ron3

Ron, you are definitely going about this the right way! Continue getting more info, with the oncoming winter and rising oil prices there are going to be more guys looking to get out of their toy cars, price should get more attractive. You're right, the 99 Cobras did get the fix involving what you stated along with some intake runner help. Leftover Teksid blocks were installed all the way up to summer of '01 build cars (they had a diamond pattern cast into the intake gallies), they may of been inserted randomly, no exacting records as alot were sent to Australia after the '99 HP fiasco. Frankly, the 99-01 Cobras don't feel that fast until you twist the RPM's up, then they scream. They also had the Tremec 3650 trans which was an improvemtent over the T-45's. I have an '01, the 03-04 cars had 395 HP (underrated), forged internals and a t-56 6 speed transmission. Bigger wheels and tires also. They are faster and the build quality of their drivetrains make them easily handle 550-650 HP due to their strength. Changing pullies and retuning will easily net you upwards of an additional 70-100 hp. Personally I've never been a big fan of pressurizing combustion chambers, things tend to go BOOM alot quicker than in normally aspirated cars. To me the answers to your question would be simple: which is more important, track/performance=ZO6, Utility/Performance/Value=Cobra. There is also the biggest factor, which of them do you think is the best fit for you? If you pull the trigger with money in mind how long will it be before you sell and buy what you really wanted originally? Is this a midlife crisis and which would look less so (embarrass you less) in the long run? Is the track/autocross thing really going to happen? Will you take it out for long weekend trips with anyone else (luggage space)? They may sound like goofy questions but either myself or my buddies (ZO6, Cobras, Saleen, Ferraris, Cobra R, M Series BMW, GTO's, WS6 T/A, Boxster S, 911's, etc.) all talk about these issues when we get together for runs out on our surrounding roads. Good Luck.....Mark.

Ron3
10-22-2005, 19:27
coreseller you have a PM!

glock[19]
10-22-2005, 19:34
Appears you have received an abundance of info on your selections. Probably be to your advantage to give each car a thorough test drive before making your decision. Whatever you decide, buy what suits your needs/desire. :)

Ron3
10-22-2005, 19:40
"Frankly, the 99-01 Cobras don't feel that fast until you twist the RPM's up, then they scream."

Roger that! I had a '96-'98 Cobra, I hated those 3.27 gears every time I drove. I put in some 4.10's and woke it right up!
If it was just a drag-strip car I'd have moved up to 4.56's but I drove it daily. That engine was happiest between 4500 and 6500rpm! And that no-cat H-pipe and Bassani mufflers were freaking music at 6500rpm!

Hell, maybe I should get another one of those and build it up for the track! ;)

Ron3

Ron3
10-22-2005, 19:43
Hey Glock[19],

What do you not like about your Z06? Just curious.

Also, does your 'vette launch good with that IRS or does it have wheel hop or spin?

What kinda of mileage do you get? Yea I know it shouldn't matter but since it's rated at 18-28mpg I was wondering what you really get.

And hows the ride for daily driving?

Ron3

Sapperstang
10-23-2005, 03:33
You sound like you know your stangs. It also seems that is what you really want. You can find an 03/04 Cobra for less than 28K. Those cars are awesome and can easily make some serious power. If you have the money forget any earlier model of Cobra. None of them can hold a candle to the 03-04. I just sold my 04 Mach 1 and want an Cobra for my next car.

BuckyP
10-23-2005, 05:04
One more thing to consider. The Vette is naturally aspirated and has a tad more power than the super charged Cobra. Consider that you can easily add a super charger to the Vette down the road.

bac1023
10-23-2005, 05:47
Does anyone like the 93-95 ZR1? I have been looking at a few online. Being in my early 30's, I was just getting into cars when the ZR1 launched in 1990. The later models had 405HP stock. I realize the chassis isn't as good as the C5 or C6, but something about them really interests me. I wouldn't mind having one at some point. Anyone else like them or have one?

coreseller
10-23-2005, 10:11
Originally posted by Ron3
"Frankly, the 99-01 Cobras don't feel that fast until you twist the RPM's up, then they scream."

Roger that! I had a '96-'98 Cobra, I hated those 3.27 gears every time I drove. I put in some 4.10's and woke it right up!
If it was just a drag-strip car I'd have moved up to 4.56's but I drove it daily. That engine was happiest between 4500 and 6500rpm! And that no-cat H-pipe and Bassani mufflers were freaking music at 6500rpm!

Hell, maybe I should get another one of those and build it up for the track! ;)

Ron3

I also have the full Bassani set-up, it sounds like an ALMS/Rolex series car when the revs are high. I'll probably do the gear thing next spring, 4:10's also since I don't drag it. Like I said before, I envy you, the search is really half the fun.....Mark.

Ron3
10-23-2005, 11:14
Originally posted by Sapperstang
I just sold my 04 Mach 1 and want an Cobra for my next car.

Why'd you sell the Mach 1? Those are good cars and a good value!

Ron3

glock[19]
10-23-2005, 20:38
Ron3, just a few answers to your questions. I can't think of anything that I don't like about my ZO6. Well one thing is the interior.For the money the car costs,I would expect all leather seats and a more refined interior (too much plastic). I get no wheel hop when launching the car, but on the 1/4 mile I have not had any luck with getting the car to hook. This is on the F1 Goodyear tires. I know a lot of claims for low 12's on these tires, but I haven't seen it. Turned this baby sideways in 3rd gear with traction control still on. Talk about the pucker factor. On the highway, the 6 speed is a dream. 6th gear is an overdrive and I get anywhere from 25 to 30 MPG.The ride is quite firm in mine, which I like, but you will find the car to be somewhat noisy inside. Remember, this car was put on a weight reduction program and I know this contributes to the noise (no sound insulation, thinner glass,etc.). I do not use this a daily driver, and would not recommend it for that. If you have any thing else you would like to know about the car, please let me know.

Ron3
10-23-2005, 21:18
Thanks!

triggerjerk
10-24-2005, 21:44
There isn't anything the ls6 does that the ls1 can't do apart from oiling components you can upgrade to.
Save some cash, get a clean '01-'04 ls1 C5 six speed and have aftermarket heads, cam and exhaust installed. 400+ RWHP easy.
Then, pick liberally from the http://www.vbandp.com catalog for suspension parts and live happily every after.

glock[19]
10-25-2005, 18:54
Triggerjerk, hope you have something on which to base that statement. Had a guy with a C5 coupe equipped with a Mag supercharger test me. No problem going by him. People tend to forget that there are some who are not satisfied with a stock ZO6. Besides the cam ,etc. you may want to add the ZO6 rear end gearing along with the ZO6 trans. Also when adding the cam, be sure to get the ZO6 valves and springs or something like them for the after-market heads. At this point you may be close but you still need to lose a few pounds in the car.:)

Rob1035
10-25-2005, 19:03
there's almost always a compromise when trying to make a lower end car compete with a higher end version. Maybe it costs more over the long run, or one performance aspect is lacking, or there's no warranty, etc. I like to tinker as much as the next guy, but there's something to be said for being able to take a box stock car, drive to the road course, woop ass, and drive home.

triggerjerk
10-25-2005, 19:39
Originally posted by glock[19]
Triggerjerk, hope you have something on which to base that statement. Had a guy with a C5 coupe equipped with a Mag supercharger test me. No problem going by him. People tend to forget that there are some who are not satisfied with a stock ZO6. Besides the cam ,etc. you may want to add the ZO6 rear end gearing along with the ZO6 trans. Also when adding the cam, be sure to get the ZO6 valves and springs or something like them for the after-market heads. At this point you may be close but you still need to lose a few pounds in the car.:)

A C5 Z06 weighs nearly the same as a fixed roof coupe C5.
Can't speak for the magnacharged car you raced.
What car were you driving?

Once you put a cam, headers and ported heads on a ls1 block, gearing isn't going to be much of a factor when taking on an unmodified car (ls6 c5 for example).

My point is, you can buy and modify a C5 to crush a Z06 C5 for less money than buying the Z in the first place.

glock[19]
10-25-2005, 20:27
TJ, all ZO6's are fixed roof coupes. This means the roof does not come off. The C5 coupes are not and all coupes have a removable targa top and a sloped rear glass that distinguishes them from the ZO6. There is a notible difference in the weight of the cars. One which you will not overcome. In answer to the question"What car were you driving" it was my ZO6. As a matter of info, the LS6 was only available in the ZO6. All the other models of the corvette (coupe & convertible) had the LS1. For the money you would have to put into a coupe in order to "crush aZO6 C5",you would be wiser to get the Z and tweak it a little and have a car very few will ever touch in a straight line or on a road course.

triggerjerk
10-26-2005, 16:56
Sorry, but not all C5s are targa tops. Below is a frc coupe that IS NOT a Z06.
http://www.2phast.com/Corvette/mynewvette1.jpg


An LS1 c5 with bolt ons can hang with a Z06.
I drive a cammed and headered ls1 camaro so I do have an idea of what a bolt-on ls1 can do. Cylinder head prices are coming down alot now too. A friend of mine has $1300 in heads and cam (did labor himself) in an ls1 firehawk that puts down 450rwhp. Imagine that in a lighter frc C5.
Sure the ls6 is better but the cheaper route imho is to start off with a clean frc ls1 C5 and mod away;f

glock[19]
10-26-2005, 18:59
TJ, odd that you would post a picture of that model. It's either a 1999 or 2000 FRC (fixed roof coupe)that led to the ZO6. You could still get the standard coupe and convert also.The car shown in your photo is one of the most wanted FRC's that were made for 99 and 00.These 2 years were the only ones where the FRC had the LS1.

elsolo
10-27-2005, 14:16
Originally posted by bac1023
Does anyone like the 93-95 ZR1? I have been looking at a few online. Being in my early 30's, I was just getting into cars when the ZR1 launched in 1990. The later models had 405HP stock. I realize the chassis isn't as good as the C5 or C6, but something about them really interests me. I wouldn't mind having one at some point. Anyone else like them or have one?

Wait until you want or need to buy engine parts, that is no regular small block chevy. That said, it was a neat motor. A local engine builder I know got one in the high 9's in the 1/4, naturally aspirated; but it sure wasn't cheap!

bac1023
10-27-2005, 19:50
Originally posted by elsolo
Wait until you want or need to buy engine parts, that is no regular small block chevy. That said, it was a neat motor. A local engine builder I know got one in the high 9's in the 1/4, naturally aspirated; but it sure wasn't cheap!
Yeah, Lotus had a hand in its design. It sure looks great though. I have a Lotus Esprit V8 and realize what engines like that cost to maintain or repair.

Sir Hacksalot
10-28-2005, 07:57
Originally posted by fnfalman
It's just me and my personal bias but there is no way in hell I'm going to bother with the Mustang as a track car. It wasn't meant to be a corner cutter and the Ford boys can do all of the suspension mods they want, it will never be a corner cutter like the 'Vette.


Two words:

Maximum Motorsports.

End of discussion regarding cutting corners.

Hax