Question for you 10mm experts

[Jeff S.]

I have a couple of questions for you 10mm experts. I have searched for the answers, but couldn't find any.

So, does 10mm defeat body armor? Specifically, would a 10mm slug defeat body armor from a 16" barrel?

Also, what is the effective range of a 10mm through a longer barrel (say, 16'')?


Thanks

[noway]

{I have a couple of questions for you 10mm experts. I have searched for the answers, but couldn't find any.

So, does 10mm defeat body armor? Specifically, would a 10mm slug defeat body armor from a 16" barrel?

Also, what is the effective range of a 10mm through a longer barrel (say, 16'')?


}

for question #1 = NO

for question #2 ( never did it don't have a 16" bbl but a wild guess ) = NO

For the last questions, that depends on you and the gun and the load. The longer bbl will play out for more increase velocities ( up to a point ) and a longer sight radius along the bbl if you are using sights. All of the above can technically increase the potential but it also depends on the type of gun,trigger and more importantly the shooter.

Either way handguns are limited in effective range when compared to a rifle or carbine.

[joey'sGlock23]

well if anyone ever gets around to making a depleted uranium bullet for the 10mm.....

[Wolf Spyder]

Well, maybe....

There are several levels of bullet resistant "soft" armor.

Level 1
Level 1A
Level 2
Level 2A
Level 3
Level 3A
Level 4

I have read of one instance where an officer was shot six times in the chest/vest and died from wounds after the 10mm Black Talon JHP penetrated his level 2A soft armor vest. I do not know what level of armor will stop what calliber at what velocity. For that information check the Government site for the NIJ.

As for the 10mm from a 16 inch barrel. Someone quoted 1700 or 1800 feet per second form a 6 inch barrel so I can only imagine what kind of velocity a 16 barrel would give to a 10mm bullet.

I beleave a 16 inch barrel would generate enough velocity and energy to penetrate a level 3A soft armor vest. Just a guess, from someone who handloads the 10mm.

[10Forward]

If you want to know about soft armor, disregard the post with all the protection levels.

Level one, you'll never see it on the street.

level 3 and 4 usually refer to HARD plate armor, those levels are needed to stop common military small arms rounds, and some hunting ammo. Level 2A, 2, and 3A usually refer to soft armor vests.

The answer is "it depends"

Will the 10mm defeat soft body armor? Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. Being a black talon has nothing to do with a bullet defeating a vest if it ever did, Black talons are loaded light, the 200g out of my 10mm barely crack 1000 fps. It's all about the energy and the vest encountered.

I'm one of the few, possibly the only member of GT that's hit vests of all levels with 10mm from a G20 in several types, from weak to hot.

it all boils down to speed, and the level of protection from a vest. This is one area where bullet weight isn't much of an issue.


IIA, the thinnest, lightest vests, but at the lowest protection rating in actual use can be defeated by some 10mm ammo out of a G20 easily. Level IIIA the highest level for soft armor can be defeated (depends on the v-50) with a long barrel, like out of the long barrel carbine conversion. I used to see those all the time, what happened to those?

Some vests will have a v-50 number advertised openly (uses a 9mm for the number) at that velocity, the vest will fail half the time with 9mm FMJ at a given weight. All you need is that number and some common sense to estimate what it will take to defeat a given vest.

All this refers to bullets purchased off the shelf and does not take into account bullets made from special materials, or with unusual profiles. Bottom line when it comes to soft body armor, SPEED and smaller calibers kill, that's why most vest makers never list the .357 sig. Partly because it's not common, but also because .357 sig will defeat a vest at a much lower velocity than a .45. For example, even a 45 super won't always defeat a vest, it's just too damn fat, spreading its energy across more fibers, same for the 50AE, but the blunt force trauma or "back face deformation" could injure of kill, but that's a whole other post.

This issue is much more complicated than I've presented, but that should be good enough for your question. :)


- Tony

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by Wolf Spyder
Well, maybe....

There are several levels of bullet resistant "soft" armor.

Level 1
Level 1A
Level 2
Level 2A
Level 3
Level 3A
Level 4

I have read of one instance where an officer was shot six times in the chest/vest and died from wounds after the 10mm Black Talon JHP penetrated his level 2A soft armor vest. I do not know what level of armor will stop what calliber at what velocity. For that information check the Government site for the NIJ.

As for the 10mm from a 16 inch barrel. Someone quoted 1700 or 1800 feet per second form a 6 inch barrel so I can only imagine what kind of velocity a 16 barrel would give to a 10mm bullet.

I beleave a 16 inch barrel would generate enough velocity and energy to penetrate a level 3A soft armor vest. Just a guess, from someone who handloads the 10mm.

I bet the multiple shots damaged the body armor enough to where one finally got through. I would like to know what weapon was used, what load, and actually like to see the pattern of shots in the vest. I don't think a single shot to the body armor would get through with a normal gun. I have no idea about the 16" barrel?

[Wolf Spyder]

I always thought the "A" ment a step up in protection. Kind of like level 2 then a step up to level 2A then 3 and 3A and so forth. Again, I am no expert.

I do know that level 4 will stop NATO 7.62 ball. I also know that some hard plates require a soft armor level 3A behind them to be level 4. When I was looking for Strike Plates for my Wasatch, I found that lovely little bit of info.

As for the shooting info on the Black Talons, I no longer have the artical. I have stored it away for long term storage in a plastic tote. If I remember correctly the report blamed the "Talons" on the opened pedels of the JHP for cutting through the vest. 10Forward is correct, the Black Talon, is a slow mover. He is also correct that velocity and energy are the big factors in penetration.

I would like to see some of 10Forward's information reguarding certain 10mm loads and the level of soft armor protection said loads will penetrate.

[Cam Cooke]

Someone asked earlier for a velocity comparison.

135gr Nosler JHP's
4.6" barrel = 1670fps
6" barrel = 1850fps
18.5" barrel = 2070fps

200gr XTP's
4.6" barrel = 1175fps
6" barrel = 1300fps
18.5" barrel = 1400fps


Hope this helps......